Phono Stage

Hi all,

I am using my integrated amp's phono stage since day one I started listening to turntable about 10 years ago. Now it is producing unbarable hum in mm mode but fine if I switch to mc. My cart is the Dynavector 10x4 high output mc but am using mm mode on my integrated amp.

I have plans to get a phono stage and your recomendations is highly appreciated. My budget is around rm 700. For that amount which phono stage should I get? Where can I get it?

I listen to pop music/songs most of time. I use Rega P2 with RB300. I like more bass.

Thank you.

Larren....

Why MC cart on MM mode....possible Should it not be MC Cart = MC mode or MM Cart = MM Mode

Base on my budget and reading reviews on Phonostage within the affordable bracket, i went for the Cambridge Audio 640P with MM / MC mode option purchased at lesser then RM700 . Condition is "New In Box" or NIB.

There is the Rotel RQ970BX which would be within your grasp for a used unit maybe with a bit top up.

I did AB comparison between these two makes and went for the CA640P.

And have been enjoying every moment.

There are other makes like Project sold by the Hifi outlet at Low Yat, AmCorp mall or CMY for the matter and some exceptional locally designed and manufactured units, (Pipit...)but the selling price is way above you budget amount.

Not very familiar with those but a good AB comaprison test would net you something within your price range.

Also do a price comparison between the various outlets as the price might vary... from one to the other......

For a used unit look at the "For Sale Section" and you may find one up for grabs ?

cheers

Yaqin MS-12B? Within your budget

yeap....

Cheers, Arremie.

That's totally "Tubey" and somewhat different charateristics compared to a solid state.

Arremie and a few others have deployed this gear succesfully into their setup. No harm in exploring all available gear before you commit the cash. THe best thing its within your reach as well.

Ahhhh...now you got Solid State and Tube option.

cheers

Thank you guys for your inputs.

wingman wrote:Larren....

Why MC cart on MM mode....possible Should it not be MC Cart = MC mode or MM Cart = MM Mode

It is a high output mc cart. It sounds like it is over loading my amp when I switch to mc mode on my amp.

wingman wrote:
Base on my budget and reading reviews on Phonostage within the affordable bracket, i went for the Cambridge Audio 640P with MM / MC mode option purchased at lesser then RM700.

Is that the listed local price? Where can I get one?

wingman wrote:
I did AB comparison between these two makes and went for the CA640P.

What about Rega mm or mc phono stage as compare to your AB comparison?

Thanks

arremie wrote:Yaqin MS-12B? Within your budget

Hey thanks. TUBES......where can I view one?

Thanks.

Larren....

The 640P at CMY or Amcorp Mall....

Had the Rega MM model unit but sold it off to get the CA640P.

cheers

larren wrote:

arremie wrote:Yaqin MS-12B? Within your budget

Hey thanks. TUBES......where can I view one?

Thanks.

My place got one. U are welcome but I don't have phono. Just CD

larren wrote:Hi all,

I am using my integrated amp's phono stage since day one I started listening to turntable about 10 years ago. Now it is producing unbarable hum in mm mode but fine if I switch to mc. My cart is the Dynavector 10x4 high output mc but am using mm mode on my integrated amp.

I have plans to get a phono stage and your recomendations is highly appreciated. My budget is around rm 700. For that amount which phono stage should I get? Where can I get it?

I listen to pop music/songs most of time. I use Rega P2 with RB300. I like more bass.

Thank you.

Bro, i have a vintage amp that have MM/MC. sounds warm and nice. r u interested? My amp is technics SU8055 which was manufactured in the year of 1979. Camm me if you interested. my contact is 0123708137. Just Rm500. c ya

wingman wrote:Larren....

The 640P at CMY or Amcorp Mall....

Had the Rega MM model unit but sold it off to get the CA640P.

cheers

Hi wingman,

How is Rega Fono MM compare to CA640, planning to set up my TT & have shortlisted those 2 phono? TQ

jazzfunksoulmusic wrote:
Bro, i have a vintage amp that have MM/MC. sounds warm and nice. r u interested? My amp is technics SU8055 which was manufactured in the year of 1979. Camm me if you interested. my contact is 0123708137. Just Rm500. c ya

Thanks

that behringer pp400 not good eh?

is_jalil wrote:

wingman wrote:Larren....

The 640P at CMY or Amcorp Mall....

Had the Rega MM model unit but sold it off to get the CA640P.

cheers

Hi wingman,

How is Rega Fono MM compare to CA640, planning to set up my TT & have shortlisted those 2 phono? TQ

Hi Jalil....

Rega has three (3) version of the phono stages, one being the Fono Mini, Fono MM and the Fono MC. Th Fono MC has the ability to adjust gain and loading.

I had the Fono Mini and it was merely an enhancer and in the similar league as the NAD PP1.

Did a comparison between the Fono Mini, Fono MM and the CA640P. The CA640P wins in all departments against the Fono Mini and against the Fono MM it was quite close in terms of the sonic capabilities. But the CA640P was much more silky smooth and much enchanced on the back end instruments, also it has much reign on the vocals and the heavy sonics.

Thats was on the sonic comparison and into the feature's comparison the CA640P has MM / MC capabilities and the "rumble" filter, thats able to reduce the sonic disruption.

Aesthetically, eventhough both the units look very simple and manufactured in the UK somehow the CA640P caught my attention.

With all the positive's favouring the CA640P, i sold off my Fono Mini and got myself the CA640P. Have been enjoying every moment of playing my LP's via the CA640P.

I would suggest that you go out and audition these two shortlisted phono gear. And the best place to do this would be at AMCorp mall, as you have Asia Sound with their Fono Mini/MM/MC and Acoustique Systems who happen to carry the CA640P/CA540P. The CA540P has only MM capability. While you are there you can try out the NAD PP2 which has the MM / MC capability as well, A&L Audio , ( not to sure )the shop located at second floor. (All in one building)

Do not forget to bring your favourite LP's for the audition. If you don't have any LP's not to worry. Get them to play purely an instrumental LP and a vocal LP. That would give you a general comparison of the products strength and weakness .

End of the day you should be happy with your investment or possible investment.

Mind you these are my personal views and preference. It may vary from one individual to another .

cheers

Hi Azri.....

No oppurtunity to listen to this model ( Behringer PP400 ) but it could be in the entry level range similar to the Rega Fono Mini / NAD PP1.

My virtual view of the product could be similar too, could be wrong too....

cheers

PP400 is probably the cheapest and suffice the phono need. Won't say more.

Last I enquired, it's about RM160, Jalan Pasar.

CT-Boy wrote:Last I enquired, it's about RM160, Jalan Pasar.

last I got it was two third your quote... (depend on which shop, bargaining skill and point of time, increased price? I won't know). Was somewhat US$29 (exc shipping) when I first stumbled on this. Wow!.. like its a Rm30 kinda stuff to US citizens..and like some PCI network card price to us here.
There's better phono stages out there, matter of one's budget and desire.

yeah, i do recall one behringer dealer in jln pasar. so that pp400 is good enough? cool

azri,
can lah.. but for a few rinngit more, I'd personally would recommend the VSPS.

http://phonoclone.com/diy-pho5.html

http://phonoclone.com/pcb.html

Thank you CT for the links.

Spoiler:

Anyone keen for an A/B test of the CA640 Phono with a Frankie Pipit v.1 ?

Yes....Mugen...

Thanks for the invite..... ...

You have a Pipit Phonostage, i would presume...

Correct me if i am wrong, the Pipit comes with adjustable gain / loading for the MM / MC carts and some sort of filter as well. That's as much i am aware of this gear.

As i have not heard much of this Pipit phonostage, care to share its qualities, cost and tech spec's.

The downside of the CA640P does not have that capability but may be taken to a different level with component upgrades. Shall i say all are fixed capabilities. Just assume for an instance it has the Gain / loading adjustment.......

Each manufacturer has their own concept or philosophy of how they design their gear to get that unique sonic signature, the intended market with their design & cost filtering down to either the mass public or the select community.

End of the day the cost plays the most integral part in anyone's decision unless your personal coffers are unlimited.

I would presume these two gears are a total different animal all together sonically and from a cost perspective as well but.....

AB test ....hmmmmmm ... what do you have in mind at a neutral location ....? What sort of test environment ...high end gear or mid -range gear

What would we be able to derive from this AB test, agree that one is better then the other or similar or both units have their strong sonic capabilities. Cost wise ?

You would never know until a comparison has been done either .... but end of the day would it be an "apple to apple " comparison ? If its not lets agree that each has their own strengths and the intended market its targeted.

Have a good week ahead...

cheers

yes, i got an original pipit.

Its got adjustable gain, and also adjustable loading for MC carts which makes it very versatile.


Price-wise should not be too far off from the CA640P.
11 years ago, Pipit was sold for around RM800~900 then to around RM1.2~1.4K.


But more so , would be its two-box design with an isolated power supply.
Also, it has a very interesting layout inside which words cannot describe. You'd need to take a look inside to really appreciate.

Another note would be its rarity in the local hi-fi scene. There are probably approx 50 units ever made.

heres another one : KAB Precon Phono Stage
it has auto adjustment for MM & MC, self detect
but you will have to purchase from ebay UK

dare to be the 1st to try?

Mugen.....

Thank You .

Would it be too much to ask... take a snap shot of the exterior and interior of this Pipit phono stage and upload for my viewing. Where could a person like me have an audition or acquire this acclaimed phono stage

What's your views / reviews on the sonics of this phono stage ( Pipit )

What would be the current model and price...or it's under wraps.

Larren....here is another option you have to check out.

Azri.....

That "dare to try 1st" is the primary stumbling block for many......sudah beli nanti kesal ....not up to standard...

cheers

azri wrote:heres another one : KAB Precon Phono Stage
it has auto adjustment for MM & MC, self detect
but you will have to purchase from ebay UK

dare to be the 1st to try?

I'm really skeptical of those small box phono units like the Project Phonobox, Rega Fono, NAD PP, Behringer , etc etc....

Had a Project Phonobox before and it was so terribily inferior sounding to a Pipit in comparison.


I doubt if its in the same league (in terms of sound quality) like a Pass Labs Xono, or even a CA 640P. But i could be wrong here maybe.

Those small boxes makes are built to a price point for a general audience to suffice basic need. A tell tale sign is when a phono box comes supplied with some puny PSU wall wart, its not going to bring down the house for sure.
Pipit is considered in custom DIY territory, hand built where cost may be no object and expected to be of exceed the performance of commercial ones in the same category. Its unfair to compare to the XONO (I'm not implying its the best, but among the very best I've auditioned to). I've seen the XONO internals, studied the circuitry, its build quality and may likely qualify as a purist product.
CA640 is a great vaue and step above those small boxes with more elaborate circuitry but nevertheless built at a price point that compete alongside other budget phono stages. I remember reading in some forum on enthusiastic modding this CA640 which ran 30 over pages. All sorts of attempts to custom optimize the phono. I think the Pipit is still opamp based but the magic is in the layout, implementation, tweaks and solid PSU which are critical in getting the best out of the circuitry. Nevertheless, its no secret there's only so much that can be done to optimize opamp circuitry for best performance.
Last but not least, if anyone thinks they currently own a phono stage that is enjoyed to the fullest, stick to it. Changing phono stages (unless money no object) like changing trousers can be a costly exercise.
Whatever it is, the best phono stage to own isn't a means to an end. Having the best phono stage but budget TT (or vice versa) isn't going to lift any skirts either.

Yes, the pipits are opamp based + overkill on the supply side and some other refinements.

first gen had to be "retired" because of the opamps used inside was EOL'ed by the mfg. Thats how Pipit-II came to be (diff opamp, etc).

This was as told from the designer himself.

How does the Pipit compare with the Dynavector P75Mk2?

Sure ain't goin to lift any skirts but gives an option for the masses to know of whats avaialble for their picking.

Budget TT being ....

Isn't it argumentative to say that a budget TT may not jive with a good phono stage unless it has been proven

That's me wanting to understand and gives a newbie on option to choose the TT path.

TQ

cheers

I'll go along with cmboy line of thoughts...
It's all about striking a balance. Once you get it right, any 'disturbances' will offset/upset the system balance/synergy that that may lead to further spending, but off course it may lead to 'higher' perceptive level.

This was mentioned before. Its all about making a choice/decision.
It's your call!

Whatever it is, the choice of matching up vinyl related gear may result in a lot more complications than digital gear.
Every essential and major component at the vinyl source from cartridge, stylus, tonearm, wiring/cables, TT make, phono stage have their own unique sonic quality/character and may involve a lot more juggling around and balancing act to get the best you've already spent. Otherwise, just buy whatever you feel is best (based on reputation, price point or someone's recommendation) then plug n play, sit back and enjoy your LP's. There's countless people past or present who did just that.

Thats true! I am one of them!

ryder wrote:How does the Pipit compare with the Dynavector P75Mk2?

Who's got this Dynavector ? Can try out & see lah.

wingman wrote:Sure ain't goin to lift any skirts but gives an option for the masses to know of whats avaialble for their picking.

Budget TT being ....

Isn't it argumentative to say that a budget TT may not jive with a good phono stage unless it has been proven

That's me wanting to understand and gives a newbie on option to choose the TT path.

TQ

cheers

The problem with playing vinyl is that the higher-end electronics tend to reveal all the flaws of the inferior mechanicals.

For example, putting a really revealing MC cartridge will pick up all the flaws of the tonearm's bearing chatter and platter bearing rumbles. And if you got a very unforgiving phono stage + bigbadass amplification system to go with it, the platter wobble ( common in Rega P1, P2s for example) would translate to very visually disturbing woofer oscillations, in addition to all the clicks and pops and droning noises.

Rule of thumb, better to keep budget TTs within overall budget systems.
A really NASTY TT front end will definitely mean a very NASTY sound output... for real. The proof is in the pudding one may say.



Higher-end TT's matched to a lower end system is not so bad though. Overkill & extravagant it may be, but at least the sonics don't suffer as badly as the other way around.

Thanks.....CM / mugen

Clarification is what everyone appreciates from the experienced.

Gives one an idea on which audio gear path to venture with the $$$ consideration to be taken into account and the gear to invest to get the desired sonics.

cheers

Hi,

What about NAD PP3? Anyone has it?

wingman wrote:

Gives one an idea on which audio gear path to venture with the $$$ consideration to be taken into account and the gear to invest to get the desired sonics.

cheers

BTW, bro, mind sharing how much the 640P costs here... Saw the price in UK at GBP60!!! and very impressive review. ..

Cheers,

zb

How does the tune of half a grand in RM sound to your ears?

Really ah cmboy?
At an exchange rate of 4.89, GBP60= RM293.40.
Almost double huh?

Yes, really...don't believe ask around the shops.
Last known its lesser sibling the CA540P (mm cart input only) was selling for RM480.
Of course we can use UK retail price as a benchmark on its actual value but here in Malaysia, thats where it gets different. Of course I wish it was as cheap as that..but sigh!..

& mind you that 4.89 is just for about two months. end of june, starting july it will go up again. thats the world currency trends yearly. even au money is slighty cheap now, its <rm3 for $1 au.

Zeebee...

Yes, the reviews were good for a mid-level phonostage and feels solid and weighty.

Get it from the UK at UK$60 = RM294.00 ( rounded off ). New or Used ? What is the shipping cost ? Add all the variable cost and it still would be much cheaper ( RM700 is the benchmark for your price comparison )

At that price it would be a worth while acquistion.
As what CM highlighted, in MY its valued at 2 times the value of the UK price conversion and abit more but < RM700.00.

That's the reality....

cheers

Please note that UK residents have to pay 14%? VAT extra... yes..VAT for everything they buy.
Thank your gahmen not yet VAT implementation here... puff of smoke to more hifi dreams...

cmboy wrote:Please note that UK residents have to pay 14%? VAT extra... yes..VAT for everything they buy.
Thank your gahmen not yet VAT implementation here... puff of smoke to more hifi dreams...

It is now at 17.5% up from 15%.

Just checked.
Richersounds is the exclusive distributor of Cambridge Audio products in the UK and the CA640P is listed for GBP99.95! VAT not included I presumed. It's around USD180 in the US.
The CA540P is going for GBP59.95.

I think we're better off getting it locally?

CT-Boy wrote:
I think we're better off getting it locally?

This CA benefits from a bigger PSU tranny unless you're not fussy and play as is. Add another RM200+ for a heavy duty tranny. I won't even mention mods yet which will add on to the cost.

Mods for an already excellent product? That ought to be great! Buy now and keep it for mods when the 'mullahs' are avail., future upgrade plans.. hmmm sounds good to me!

CT-Boy wrote:Mods for an already excellent product? That ought to be great! Buy now and keep it for mods when the 'mullahs' are avail., future upgrade plans.. hmmm sounds good to me!

Factually, most phono stage that comes supplied with a puny wall wart PSU can benefit from a bigger and higher quality PSU. There's a few brand makes that offer upgrade PSU for their phono, applies to outboard DAC's too.
Anyway, I've read one vinyl related forum where there's discussion of modding this CA phono and one enthusiastic DIY'er even traced out the circuitry and posted it there. Oh well, anything's possible to VOID THE WARRANTY!
BTW, one's tools and skill better be of top notch as the CA PCB is a dual layer PCB and NOT EASY to remove the components for modding. The amateur can wreck and destroy this easily. I saw a lot of sloppy and amateurish work done on this CA...sheesh! (even using caps meant for tube gear...worse still!)