Hi-Fi 4 Sale (in Malaysia & Singapore) | www.hifi4sale.net

Originally http://hifi4sale.blogspot.com | A tasteful online marketplace to find wonderful deals & bargains for hi-fi audio & video equipment in Malaysia/Singapore, a haven for the Hi-Fi or AV enthusiast. Great stuff here, New or Used!


Tubes / Valves Condition / Maintenance / Jargons

Post new topic   Reply to topic

Hi-Fi 4 Sale (in Malaysia & Singapore) | www.hifi4sale.net :: Discussion Area & Knowledge Base :: Equipment Discussions

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Tubes / Valves Condition / Maintenance / Jargons

Post by wingman on Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:12 pm

Hi.....

Just wondering on the following :

1. How do you identify a used Tube
2. How do you identify a Out of life Tube / Valve or about to kaput tube ?
3. What's Tube Rolling or NOS / NIB ?
4. Pitfalls ?
5. Compatability Tube List ?
6. Tube care

Expanding my Audio knowledgebase before venturing into all things Tube-y.

Cheers

wingman
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor

Male Number of posts: 375
Age: 44
Location: Neither Here Nor There
Registration date: 2009-08-10

Back to top Go down

Re: Tubes / Valves Condition / Maintenance / Jargons

Post by azri on Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:29 pm

3. changing tubes to different makes like stock tubes to amperex or mullard. NOS = new old stock, NIB = New in box. meaning for NOS = old tubes that is still new & never been use. it can be from 50s, 60s etc.

azri
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor

Male Number of posts: 879
Age: 33
Location: australia
Registration date: 2009-01-21

Back to top Go down

Re: Tubes / Valves Condition / Maintenance / Jargons

Post by cmboy on Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:37 pm

1. Experience and tell tale signs, measurement with tube tester may offer more info.
2. 2 ways, use tube tester or plug in and it doesn't work.
3. Line up the tubes and roll them down your staircase.
4. They deteriorate or kaput after a few years of constant use
5. Google the model numbers on the internet.
6. You can wash them under the sink if you insist on them looking clean.

cmboy
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor

Male Number of posts: 698
Age: 30
Location: Bolehland
Registration date: 2009-03-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Tubes / Valves Condition / Maintenance / Jargons

Post by wingman on Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:56 pm

Thanks guys....

some of it seems pratical....especially item 3 - Robustness and rigidity test and 6 - after which can hang it up as chandelier .

That's the reason why we seek experienced persons feedback.....Ha Ha Ha ...... . So we do not make the same mistake....

cheers

wingman
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor

Male Number of posts: 375
Age: 44
Location: Neither Here Nor There
Registration date: 2009-08-10

Back to top Go down

Re: Tubes / Valves Condition / Maintenance / Jargons

Post by cmboy on Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:12 pm

What the tube really need is a really great circuit designed around it. Tubes are only half the story. The other components are of great importance too.

cmboy
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor

Male Number of posts: 698
Age: 30
Location: Bolehland
Registration date: 2009-03-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Tubes / Valves Condition / Maintenance / Jargons

Post by teleman51 on Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:14 pm

cmboy,

I especially like Nos 3 & 6.

Errrrrr.............maybe i'll try them on those Mullard & Siemens GZ34 that have been with me for a while now.

cheers & shalom
teleman51

_________________
In dreams and in love there are no impossibilities.
Janos Arany.

teleman51
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor

Male Number of posts: 115
Age: 55
Location: Setapak,Kuala Lumpur
Registration date: 2009-01-20

Back to top Go down

Re: Tubes / Valves Condition / Maintenance / Jargons

Post by gpsymod on Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:18 pm

Cmboy....couldn't agree more

gpsymod
Club Member
Club Member

Male Number of posts: 27
Age: 40
Location: Kuala lumpur
Registration date: 2009-03-05

Back to top Go down

Re: Tubes / Valves Condition / Maintenance / Jargons

Post by wingman on Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:39 am

CM....

Jokes aside, yes, getting the right balance between all the various components is crucial to get the sweet spot. ( music )

Auditioned a Dared Tube Amp ( killing time to the next appointment ) and what a difference compared to my integrated.

So generated these thread to get the feel and weigh my options.

cheers

wingman
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor

Male Number of posts: 375
Age: 44
Location: Neither Here Nor There
Registration date: 2009-08-10

Back to top Go down

Re: Tubes / Valves Condition / Maintenance / Jargons

Post by cmboy on Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:21 am

Wingman: There's a great deal more science than just jargon and tube rolling.
Allow me to direct you to this link where there's lots of technical books for your reading pleasure and further understanding of tube electronics.

http://www.pmillett.com/technical_books_online.htm

cmboy
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor

Male Number of posts: 698
Age: 30
Location: Bolehland
Registration date: 2009-03-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Tubes / Valves Condition / Maintenance / Jargons

Post by arremie on Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:11 pm

cmboy thanks for the link. Gonna keep me occupied for a while.

arremie
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor

Male Number of posts: 311
Age: 37
Location: PJ
Registration date: 2009-02-09

Back to top Go down

Re: Tubes / Valves Condition / Maintenance / Jargons

Post by wingman on Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:29 pm

CM.....

Thank you and sure would keep myself busy.....

cheers

wingman
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor

Male Number of posts: 375
Age: 44
Location: Neither Here Nor There
Registration date: 2009-08-10

Back to top Go down

Re: Tubes / Valves Condition / Maintenance / Jargons

Post by cmboy on Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:17 pm

Best wishes for you all to gain more knowledge in due course.

cmboy
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor

Male Number of posts: 698
Age: 30
Location: Bolehland
Registration date: 2009-03-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Tubes / Valves Condition / Maintenance / Jargons

Post by wingman on Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:14 pm

Gaining knowledge is a day to day affair......no one can say they have learnt everything.....

It's even better with sharing the gained knowledge.....

Some WEB sites selling tubes :

www.thetubestore.com
www.audiotubes.com


cheers

wingman
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor

Male Number of posts: 375
Age: 44
Location: Neither Here Nor There
Registration date: 2009-08-10

Back to top Go down

Re: Tubes / Valves Condition / Maintenance / Jargons

Post by cmboy on Fri Mar 05, 2010 5:14 pm

Ebay is also a good source to buy tubes (or anything else related), but read and know exactly what you're buying.

cmboy
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor

Male Number of posts: 698
Age: 30
Location: Bolehland
Registration date: 2009-03-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Tubes / Valves Condition / Maintenance / Jargons

Post by arremie on Mon Mar 08, 2010 5:04 pm

I found pretty good article regarding vacuum tubes including how to identify used tubes...

http://www.greenbulletmics.com/VACUUM_TUBES.html

arremie
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor

Male Number of posts: 311
Age: 37
Location: PJ
Registration date: 2009-02-09

Back to top Go down

Re: Tubes / Valves Condition / Maintenance / Jargons

Post by sswong3374 on Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:32 pm

without tube tester, what we can try to differntial used tube and new tube is

1) look at the coper rod inside the tube, used tube normally may show some oxydise (darker bronze colour)
2) look at the plate

basically is look at the metal part to see any changes of colour.

sswong3374
New Member
New Member

Male Number of posts: 20
Age: 36
Location: PJ
Registration date: 2009-03-12

Back to top Go down

Re: Tubes / Valves Condition / Maintenance / Jargons

Post by dixchen on Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:52 pm

Further to the above look at the condition of the silver flash getters inside each tubes, very used tubes will have white outline around those getters which indicates more than 50 percent of tube life is used up...

dixchen
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor

Male Number of posts: 122
Age: 34
Location: Subang Jaya
Registration date: 2009-02-17

Back to top Go down

Re: Tubes / Valves Condition / Maintenance / Jargons

Post by arremie on Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:46 am

Anybody use tube dampers? Do they really change the sound or is it just another snake oil.

arremie
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor

Male Number of posts: 311
Age: 37
Location: PJ
Registration date: 2009-02-09

Back to top Go down

Re: Tubes / Valves Condition / Maintenance / Jargons

Post by noodle88 on Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:01 pm

Arremie,
for those equipment which r noisy u may need it, but if your equipment sound quiet n fast, u don't need any of that.

noodle88
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor

Male Number of posts: 178
Age: 37
Location: malaysia
Registration date: 2009-03-13

Back to top Go down

Re: Tubes / Valves Condition / Maintenance / Jargons

Post by arremie on Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:08 pm

What do you mean by noisy equipment? Excessive hiss or hum?

arremie
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor

Male Number of posts: 311
Age: 37
Location: PJ
Registration date: 2009-02-09

Back to top Go down

Re: Tubes / Valves Condition / Maintenance / Jargons

Post by noodle88 on Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:25 pm

Arremie,

What I mean is tube equipment/ tube that sound slow or not so clean may need it. But good tube that sound good may not need it.
Last time I do put it on my tube n it sound quieter. But as my equipment become more quiet n have more speed, after modding it. I need to take it off, bcos tube damper did compress my highs.

noodle88
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor

Male Number of posts: 178
Age: 37
Location: malaysia
Registration date: 2009-03-13

Back to top Go down

Re: Tubes / Valves Condition / Maintenance / Jargons

Post by arremie on Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:44 pm

I see. I guess I have to try then. I did purchase some from ebay just to satisfy my curiosity. Lucky I'm not a cat

arremie
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor

Male Number of posts: 311
Age: 37
Location: PJ
Registration date: 2009-02-09

Back to top Go down

Re: Tubes / Valves Condition / Maintenance / Jargons

Post by dixchen on Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:50 pm

My experience with these dampers is that only some model of tubes need it, use it wrongly on some tube type and the overall sound stage width and height will drop. Typical american made tube models need it more esp the 5687 and 5751 variants...

Definitely not snake oil... sole purpose for me it snaps the focus of images and tightens up the sound. Some tubes are inherently microphonic by nature.

Put it on any 6922/ECC88 type and it will sound horrendous....

dixchen
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor

Male Number of posts: 122
Age: 34
Location: Subang Jaya
Registration date: 2009-02-17

Back to top Go down

Re: Tubes / Valves Condition / Maintenance / Jargons

Post by noodle88 on Mon Apr 12, 2010 6:33 pm

For me I will not use tube damper, it may suspress your sound. I will avoid using microphony tube like 5687, they r microphony, how can they sound quiet n neutral??

noodle88
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor

Male Number of posts: 178
Age: 37
Location: malaysia
Registration date: 2009-03-13

Back to top Go down

Re: Tubes / Valves Condition / Maintenance / Jargons

Post by arremie on Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:43 pm

So meaning it's good to use damper if wanna tame that brightness a bit?

arremie
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor

Male Number of posts: 311
Age: 37
Location: PJ
Registration date: 2009-02-09

Back to top Go down

Re: Tubes / Valves Condition / Maintenance / Jargons

Post by drife on Mon Apr 12, 2010 9:30 pm

ok. im confused now. how does tube internals get oxydised? from air trapped inside? isn't it supposed to be vacuum?

drife
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor

Male Number of posts: 165
Age: 35
Location: PJ
Registration date: 2009-07-17

Back to top Go down

Re: Tubes / Valves Condition / Maintenance / Jargons

Post by dixchen on Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:39 am

arremie wrote:So meaning it's good to use damper if wanna tame that brightness a bit?


Not really in that context of taming brightness, more like snapping things into focus, tightening things a bit.

dixchen
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor

Male Number of posts: 122
Age: 34
Location: Subang Jaya
Registration date: 2009-02-17

Back to top Go down

Re: Tubes / Valves Condition / Maintenance / Jargons

Post by dixchen on Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:43 am

noodle88 wrote:For me I will not use tube damper, it may suspress your sound. I will avoid using microphony tube like 5687, they r microphony, how can they sound quiet n neutral??


Thats why I never like 5687's. but their superb hard and impossible to find military use equivalents which is the Bendix or Tung Sol 6900's are excellent as driver tubes.

But then again the 5687 is widely used in the Kondo Ongaku amp, as drivers but never in input/gain stages. Still hate them though...

dixchen
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor

Male Number of posts: 122
Age: 34
Location: Subang Jaya
Registration date: 2009-02-17

Back to top Go down

Re: Tubes / Valves Condition / Maintenance / Jargons

Post by arremie on Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:53 pm

Is TJ Full Music 12AU7 worth the price? Pretty expensive.

...or any TJ Full Music series for that matters.

arremie
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor

Male Number of posts: 311
Age: 37
Location: PJ
Registration date: 2009-02-09

Back to top Go down

Re: Tubes / Valves Condition / Maintenance / Jargons

Post by dixchen on Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:50 am

Nah, unfortunately not... any American or European nos equivalents are already way way ahead...

TJ's are only popular for their mesh plate 300B's...

dixchen
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor

Male Number of posts: 122
Age: 34
Location: Subang Jaya
Registration date: 2009-02-17

Back to top Go down

Re: Tubes / Valves Condition / Maintenance / Jargons

Post by arremie on Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:02 am

I read good reviews for TJ 12AU7. Gonna get me a pair. Still don't quite like the JJ I'm using now.

arremie
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor

Male Number of posts: 311
Age: 37
Location: PJ
Registration date: 2009-02-09

Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

Post new topic   Reply to topic

Hi-Fi 4 Sale (in Malaysia & Singapore) | www.hifi4sale.net :: Discussion Area & Knowledge Base :: Equipment Discussions

Permissions of this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum