Hi End Setups

An interesting read!
Thanks for the link!

Hi uncle vic,



The article do not impress me at all due to some reason. It is another beautiful article which i can always read it in the Architecture books & magazine.


This is my industry, so just want to clarify our houses is difference to Seattle, Washington. Also not to misleading by the article. We have to build our house which is suitable for tropical but not in Seattle.

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First of all, the foundation of the room was designed to be built on an absolute solid ground. It was constructed in the follow ways:

(what it mean by solid ground? we do have difference type of soil condition in Malaysia but command design in Malaysia which is Piling & Pile cap Foundation, Footing Foundation or Raf Foundation. All of this design are solid & stable to the ground. Without these design, Majlis do not approve the plan. Actually we got more solid ground then what have build in Seattle.) Sorry...

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1. 4’ concrete wall to form the basin of the foundation. Inner sides of the wall are covered with a special wood-based soft board forming an effective isolation from outside vibration and resonance.

Some old houses terrace houses using double layer clay brick for the party wall between house to house. Actually double bricks is 300mm or 12' thick. Do you think 4' concrete wall will be batter the 12' brick wall?

Our command house in Malaysia is 110mm clay bricks with ex-mat wire mass laying with cement mortar grade 15N, plastering 25mm for both site. Also support with 6mm round bar starter bar and tie up with the 125 x 250 size concrete column. (if you still not understand , just let you know our terrace house wall is 6' thick.)

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2. The ground of the foundation was machine compressed, then filled with 1st layer of rough gravels, 2nd layer of fine gravel, third layer of rough sand, and fourth layer of fine sand, all machine-compressed.

Our ground command design with compaction soil with CBR test for 90% and above. Cover with Anti Termite chemical, 2' Lean concrete, PVC 0.25mm, 4' Hard Core/ crusher run, 4' Concrete Grade 25N. We do use plate compactor, Monkey jump compactor or 1ton roller compactor for the ground. (if you still not understand , this is the command foundation we do in Malaysia)

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3. Then cover with special 2” foam which can stand tones of weight and can last for 25 years.

The form we always use in the construction joint but not for the base. The best to use is Rubber Bearing pad which is the hard rubber sandwich with steel plate. You can see the materials below the bridge or highway flyover. it can last more then 25 year.

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4. Finally, on top of the foam is 6” of reinforced concrete block to achieve solid, no ringing but live floor for clean and solid bass
      performance.

How can the form & concrete block achieve vertical and horizontal movement? is only achievable by the bearing pad or ball bearing.

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The studs used were 8”x4” reinforced high density wood-chip frame with special insulation within, instead of the standard 4”x4”.  The room was built on a concept of “room-within-a-room” with 3 layers of wall; the exterior wall was built affixed to the solid concrete wall of the
      foundation, where the inner wall of the listening room was built on the floating slab, so that the vibration from outside room does not transmitted to the inner room.  The easiest way to imagine, it is a room on a vibration isolation platform.

Once are talking about room within the room, KLCC Philharmonic should be the only structure carry this type of methology.
If you can afford to build a banglow with basement Hifi room, it will be a lot batter then Winston’s
system, audio room design.

Nevertheless, don't over impress by the beautiful writing,it is just normal.

Big Shot Architecture Student....please stop
calling people BLUR...

Please come down to earth, you do not know who might be reading this forum.

You do not compare KLCC against Winston Ma's house.

BLUR is not a nice word, you will learn as you grow. Please do not be offended.

I will say sorry to who uncomfortable to my criticism. please correct me if i am wrong.

Hi Chew, I'm impressed with your explanations! But I was looking into Winston Ma's setup more than how his house was built. It's always hifi 1st la, everything else after I read about his setup. Thxs for the long explanation.

Hi uncle vic,
I have no command about the system, just (my self) not agree why should the writer explain so detail about the construction.

I don't know too...........it was supposed to be a home visit to listen to a hifi system/setup and to report on how the system perform or sounded. It's probably the only part of the report that audiophiles will be interested in.

VS126 wrote:Big Shot Architecture Student....please stop
calling people BLUR...

Please come down to earth, you do not know who might be reading this forum.

You do not compare KLCC against Winston Ma's house.

BLUR is not a nice word, you will learn as you grow. Please do not be offended.

Vince, i like your postings .... Getting to be real fun to read also...

There's a major difference in an audiophile's "enhanced" listening room as compared to an orchestra's peforming hall one should remember. Even if Vincent Ma's room is built to the spec as a performing hall, its still ain't gonna make ANY speakers sound exactly like a 30 man orchestra, so why compare an audiophile room to one that is built for live performances or even add all the thing-a-magic that is put into the construction of a layman's home as opposed to a performance hall.

Just my 2 sen.

I see his (chew's) post differently and I would recommend people look beyond his use of words and look at the technical facts he presented.

In the U.S. many houses do not use construction methods that are beneficial to hifi sound reproduction. Lots of plaster walls, lots of use of wood for e.g. This article explains how the owner went to great lengths to build a house with a listening room that is solid and conducive to sound reproduction. Perhaps Chew misread it as boasting but that to me is not a problem. More importantly is that Chew, obviously involved in the construction line or has a background and knowledge in construction, in particular local ones, is trying to explain that local - i.e. Malaysian - houses, even terrace house, have a contruction method that is largely similar to the house in the article and indeed, certain aspects are even better.

E.g. Chew mentioned that the article highlights the walls in Ma's house is 4 inch thick and concrete and this is of course something desirable in a listening room. But then Chew points out correctly that local houses, even terrace houses have internal partitioning walls that are solidly constructed with individual bricks against a steel framed reinforced concreate frame and then plastered to a minimum thickness and are generally 6 inch thick - i.e. 50% thicker than the walls in Ma's room. Is that not an interesting and perhaps exciting information to know ? That while an audiophile in the US had to resort to custom built, we in Maaysia gets better in standard terrace houses that you and I can afford to buy ?

Look at it as information. Read with an open mind. There is a wealth of information in Chew's post, many of them very gratifying (i.e. good news to me at least) about the standards of local construction. And being able to compare it almost point to point with a special custom built audiophile listening room in the U.S. and not losing out is something, to me, very worthwhile to read and know.

Why look at the negative side of the post ? Especially when Chew's use of wordings shows that english is clearly not his strong point and so we should give benefit of doubt to some of the words he chose (wrongly used or wrong context).

Guys,

I think there is a slight misunderstanding. The 4''(inch) wall in Winston Ma's room, is actually in the ground, ie the foundation. Not comparable to our 12" wall which is above the ground, between house to house.

Imagine, they dug out a hole 4'(feet) deep in the ground, and build 4" thick walls in the ground, then start filling it with gravel, fine gravel, sand, foam etc and compacted each time. I wonder how many of our houses have a foundation floor 4' deep.

I'm not in construction industry so correct me if I'm wrong.

Anyways, here's more pictures on Winston Ma's room http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue3/maroom.htm

Also, look at most recording studio's construction and how they build even something simple like the floor
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/photo-diaries-recording-studio-construction-projects/304215-amsterdam-mastering-construction-thread.html

I think I saw cement on top of foam amongst others..

The foundation for the music room was constructed to try to achieve the above perimeters in the following way:

Now, is it perimeters or parameters!

I noticed the sloping ceilings in both winston ma's listening room and the example of a studio venue. Interesting.

Try to visit a house under construction. I visited my house many years ago when it was being built. The floor is concreate and I distinctly remember the floor being at least 4" thick if not thicker. I know for a fact that when I did a termite retreatment a few years later, that time using a method which needs holes to be drilled inside the house (along the walls) for injection of the termite 'poison', that they had to use a big industrial driver and the drill bit went pretty deep.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. The article states that Winston's foundation is 4 feet deep (1.2m).

I think if we stay in double storey houses, the foundation pillars are also laid quite deep as well. I remember my parent's house where the back part was extended outwards (very common for double storey terrace house) by 10ft and double storey structure. The first thing the renovation contractor did was to dig two very deep holes to plant what the chinese contractor describes as 'duck feet', actually a long metal pole with a big triangular flat support at the bottom (which somewhat resembles a duck's feet). I remember each corner is dug 3 or even 4 feet deep and a 'duck feet' put in each. Then concrete is poured on top to solidify the seatment and finally the ground is levelled. Then the pillars proper are built, against a metal skeleton mounted against the duck feet. Wood planks nailed together to form a rectangular pillar 'mould' and concrete poured and allowed to dry at least overnight (though I think it was longer). Then the beams are built in a similar way. Then the concrete floors, all of them solid concrete against a steel frame skeleton. The walls are individual bricks laid together with cement.

Again, often we read something and we think it's wonderful. But sometimes, we are just ignorant and we don't know that something similar, maybe not exactly equal but not far off, is common thing here in Asia. Don't forget we were former British colony and many of our standards are often based on english standards.

It would be educational to compare the seemingly wonderful construction method of this winston ma's room against what is common place for terrace and higher end houses (I am ignoring low cost houses built using the prefab way, a method imported from the US I believe). Many a times, what we learn (with an open mind) might actually shock us. For e.g. I remember the concrete pillars for the extension of my parent's house to be at least 6inch square in size. The beams; those three that forms the skeleton for the first floor are 6 inch wide but a lot deeper (in vertical length), something like 1 feet or similar.

It would be interesting when next time near a construction side, to take a careful look at how we build houses locally. Good things should be appreciated and learnt but also an open mind that sometimes us common folks can get lucky and we get similar quality even in our normal houses.

One final word.

In the 2nd link, to the article with lots of detail about the construction, the final closing paragraph is of particular good sense/advice


While most of us cannot achieve this level of accomplishment in our rooms, Winston’s design encourages audiophiles to press for every advantage feasible when they have the opportunity to construct—or remodel—a dedicated room. Meanwhile, his work will remain a benchmark worthy of admiration and emulation.


This paragraph nicely (and a lot more eloquently) summarizes what I have been trying to say in my long postings. I.e. take nothing away from winston ma's room. It is indeed a marvel in terms of creating a listening room. However, in our awe and admiration of the room, do take lessons from how it is constructed and the principles and other things it is based on. At the same time, also take into heart what people like chew is trying to say. While a 'mass produced' terrace house is never going to have the kind of specialist construction method like winston ma's room, do note that in a number of parameters, even our common terrace house, those that you & I buy, do share some aspects of the construction method or parameter. From here, learn what is missing. It would be interesting to discuss how and whether it might be possible or feasible to try to duplicate some aspects of what is mssing from our normal houses when measured against the winston ma's reference standard. Some of the things can in theory be replicated, perhaps not exactly but in a somewhat similar way. Might that yield us some wonderful results ? After all, as many audiophiles likes to point out, our listening room or listening environment is one important component of our hifi system. But it frequently also represents the one which we can least able to control and also LEAST UNDERSTANDS. So if anything, taken together, the original winston ma review, the 2nd detailed article about the room consttruction and chew's information of standard specifications of local houses, all these can only serve to improve our knowledge and understand in this crucial area.

Enough said I think.

Now, back to hifi4sale.

Thank you WongKN,
You make a very good conclution for the construction discussion. I think is enough and back to hifi4sale.

+ (the pillar under the foundation 6inch square in size is call concrete pile, may be i should organize a site visit for the forum people )

Well said Wong KN. As u said there are many things(or parameters) missing from our listening rooms as compared with Winston Ma's listening room. Not only the size of his room is much bigger than most of our smaller listening room, hence the 1st thing that comes to mind, is we are not going to get the kind of low bass he is getting with his 25ft long room, assuming the theory of long rooms being necessary to form that 20Hz bass! Then the sloping ceiling is one parameters I don't see in many malaysian home listening rooms. The slope of the ceiling may not have any meaning to most audiophiles. Then I've seen several listening rooms with double wall constructions, again it's something we read in hifi websites and seldom come across. And the list goes on and on..............

Based on the principles used in winston ma's room, and we have to allocate a lot of credibility to those principles, it would therefore be logical to say that if one's music taste requires very low bass reproduction (e.g. classical music fan who listens to lots of organ music), then to get 20Hz, we need 25feet room. This is out of my reach for e.g. Based on that, we can infer two things:

1. Using the dimensions of our own room, we can do a similar inference to deduce the lowest bass possible from our system in theory. Then in theory, this places a lower bound on the lowest bass note possible from our system.

2. It also suggests that if we do desire very low bass, e.g. low extension beyond that which is imposed by our room, then we probably need a subwoofer to artificially generate that part of the music. This gives us an idea of whether and when one might want to consider a sub woofer.

WongKN wrote:Based on the principles used in winston ma's room, and we have to allocate a lot of credibility to those principles, it would therefore be logical to say that if one's music taste requires very low bass reproduction (e.g. classical music fan who listens to lots of organ music), then to get 20Hz, we need 25feet room. This is out of my reach for e.g. Based on that, we can infer two things:

1. Using the dimensions of our own room, we can do a similar inference to deduce the lowest bass possible from our system in theory. Then in theory, this places a lower bound on the lowest bass note possible from our system.

2. It also suggests that if we do desire very low bass, e.g. low extension beyond that which is imposed by our room, then we probably need a subwoofer to artificially generate that part of the music. This gives us an idea of whether and when one might want to consider a sub woofer.

Interesting.

But a lot of audiophiles do not want a subwoofer to be 'introduced' into their system. Correct me if I am wrong. Say if one desire low bass but shun the idea of having a sub yet the limitation of standmount speakers could not produce the said low extension, ain't there a 'missing' link in it?

I never thought that Aaron Neville's Warm Your Heart CD is quite boomy until it is being played with floorstanders that could go down to a low 25Hz.

Having said that, there is customer who dropped by weeks ago to audition the SVS PB13-Ultra for music reproduction. I politely asked him about his setup. Nearly fainted, Jeff Rowland with Wilson Audio Watt Puppy. He is looking for a sub for the better low extension. Luckily, it went quite well. While it has its flaws, yet it did shine to the point that he called the rest of the gang.

WongKN, pls come over whenever you are free. Need to seek your opinion and also advice.

Sure. But this weekend is out as I am installing air-cond in one of my rooms.

I have noticed that boomy bass is typical of an amp that can drive a speaker but cannot control it completely. Think of a car that has a worn shock absorber. When we go over a bump the absorber cannot control the spring compression and extension to the extent that the car 'yo-yos' after going through a bump at any speed faster than a crawl. A similar principle applies here - the amp cannot stop the woofer in time, therefore there is a lot of overrun in the bass area and this is what causes boom. I know painfully this point because this is what happens when I try to torture my ARC CL60 by asking it to drive my Apogee Centaur Majors. I also have a couple of spare amps, including a 120W Luxman stereo power amp and that has much better bass control with the Majors.

With your customer with the Jeff Rowlands and Watt Puppy, I think control is not an issue. Wilson speakers are quite easy on amps as well. Therefore he probably is in a situation where he wants more bass, but QUALITY bass. It is a testimony to the SVS sub that someone at his level feels that it deserves the time of the rest of his gang. So is he going to re-audition with his friends or what ?

Yes, he is looking for quality bass. he spent a few hours to audition it with different configuration on the sub.

He is spreading the words around. A friend of his came on Wed but we are close on Wed. Another friend told me that they will be coming over on this Sunday to audition it again. Actually, am happy that they invited me to go over and audition their system.

Yes, take the opportunity to expand your listening experience. With more experience, you get a better idea of what good sound is and so forth. You will also be able to more clearly crystalize your own musical and sound preference because you have now heard very high end systems and you will know what high end is and directly which area your own current system lacks and now because you have heard it, what improvements you want from any future upgrade to your system.

Max, one item from the SVS catalog which I myself have very high interest in and which I believe those potential customers of your would probably also have a high interest in, is the electronic box which equalizes the bass response from your sub to become flat according to the room. Most normal rooms (i.e. non winston ma rooms that normal people like you & I can afford to own) will never be in the perfect 'golden ratio' in terms of dimensions (LWH) and construction. So the bass response can often be uneven, emphasis in various frequencies, suck-outs in others and so forth. While passing the entire system through that unit would be detrimental to the sound, with a sub-woofer, just passing the subwoofer signal to be processed by the unit can potentially return huge improvements in the bass. IMHO, you should showcase your subs with that unit. It would certainly be my interest when I finally find the time to visit your showroom in seremban.

I am glad that I had the opportunities to audition these hi-end systems. I am trying to gain more experience in hi-fi since I am more towards HT. With an open mind, I am trying to absorb as many 'characteristic' of specific systems so that I would know the brands' house sound or character. This would eventually helps me if I expand to hi-end system biz.

It has been a very good year for me to say the least as I had auditioned quite a number of impressive hi-end systems. The Soulotion and Magico system has been an 'ear-opener' to me as well as a jaw dropping Krell & Apogee combo system and a complete Holfi system along with other hi-fi systems.

The Watt Puppy audition would be my second 'rendezvous' with Wilson Audio. About 18 years ago, I auditioned the then ultra-expensive WA Grand Slam at Absolute Sound Stage. Back then, I was only a student. The owner actually invited me to audition it. Then, he taught a thing or two abt hi-fi to me. There, I auditioned Thiel too.

About the sub-EQ, it is AS-EQ1 which is similar to Audyssey Pro. It has received good reviews from audioholics.com as well as from Daniel Kumin of S&V.

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/acoustics/svs-as-eq1-sub-eq

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/tests-reviews/miscellaneous/2010/01/svsound-eq1-subwoofer-equalizer

I intentionally minimize my room treatments esp bass trap in my demo room. A powerful sub in a medium size room is not easy to control let alone if WAF and acoustic treatments being a limitation. With this, it can applies filters to peaks and valleys and end result is near flat curve esp in LF.

Many argues that a flat curve is not the perfect curve. House curve is the choice to some. A 'valley' (some refer to it as nodes) and peak will create imbalance in sound. I observed that valleys could dip more than 9dB and peak could shoot up to above 8 dB. These are something that exist in our normal rooms. From what I observe, the peak normally at about 35Hz to 45Hz while nodes normally around 50-60Hz. Imagine when the sound extends to about 30Hz. You will a sudden 'loss' of sound follow by a sudden loudness.

I shall try to arrange a unit for you to test it out. This AS-EQ1 is highly recommended for those running more than 1 sub.

WongKN, are you talking about the SVS AS-EQ1 subwoofer EQ? I have been keenly eyeing that as well. Another similar bass equaliser box is the Velodyne SMS-1 subwoofer management system.

Do you know of any other subwoofer management systems besides these ?

Yes, ever since the svs product launch in PJ where I was introduced to this unit, I have been interested in it. For high end, one needs a very fast subwoofer but no matter what subwoofer, the ability to control the frequency response is always a powerful advantage. Yes the arguement is true that a room has its own bass reinforcement and cancellation characteristics so it is important to have a unit such as the AS-EQ1 to work around this. If not, what we hear is actually the room's character, not the actual musical content itself.

Hi Wong KN, just curious how do one identify the room's character from that of the actual musical content itself? Assuming the host do not let u know if a EQ device is being used(probably hidden away). At the most u see lots of tube traps and it's probably more astonishing if u don't find a single tube trap in the room and the sound of the bass is room filling and there is no bass boom at all!!!! Have u heard such a setup before?

Uncle Vic,

My personal opinion is that it is extremely difficult to differentiate or isolate the room's character from the overall sound, i.e. to clearly identify what is the sound of the system alone and which aspects are influences from the room, placement, tweaking, etc.

I myself will only venture to say I understand the character of only 1 room, that of my own, after more than 15 years with it and having used numerous components, placement and setup, etc. And with very familiar music sources. By collorary, I do not think anyone can claim to be able to isolate the influence of the room from the sound of the system in isolation, as they are extremely tightly integrated together, from just casual listening or occasional visits.

About your scenario, yes I have experienced several systems like this before. The system and room are very varied, high-end, relatively modest high-end, mid-range, small room, large room, etc. But I am fortunate to have heard many systems with exquisite sound. However, I have to say that I am seldom in the situation where the host wants to hide the details of his system or room. So your scenario specifically ? Almost never been in that situation before. I suppose it could be due to the approach my friends & I adopt. We always feel that if we are invited by someone to listen to his system, that it is an honour - i.e. the owner is giving us 'face'. So we never go with an intention to judge, always with an intention to enjoy a session. So I suppose because there is no pressure on anybody and the whole session almost always turns into listening to music and not analysing the sound. Consequently the owners always felt there is nothing that needs to be hidden.

Anyway, just my opinions, approahc and experiences.

Hi Wong KN,

My scenario specifically: when the sound is so flat(room response so exceptionally flat when measured), the 1st suspect is there is a EQ device because not many people can listen to such flat sound for long(hence they could detect or suspect a flat room response), and there is no sign of any EQ device, at least one don't see anything else going into & out of the CDP/amp/speakers. And possibly seeking the only other explanations with the room treatments/bass traps/ and special room constructions. The host didn't hide anything! Looks seemingly a EQ device has being hidden. And where can one hide a EQ device anyway?

uncle_vic wrote:
And where can one hide a EQ device anyway?

I got one hidden in the Northbridge!

[quote="uncle_vic"]

>> when the sound is so flat(room response so exceptionally flat when measured),

>>　not many people can listen to such flat sound for long


Hi, Uncle Vic.

Long time not write to you.
May I know how did you measure/judge a room frequency flatness? By equipments or human ears?
How do you know not many people can listen to room with flat freq resp for long time? Is there any concrete statistic data to prove it?

best regards
we

WE, since day 1 u are here u have being after my neck......please lay off.........and read this............


http://www.6moons.com/ramef/5.html

I
mentioned subjective preferences. Do we always want flat? The human ear
is not flat. By that I mean that we do not perceive every
frequency at the same volume while listening to a flat frequency sweep.
Simply put, the human ear and the brain to which it connects for data
processing is designed with one primary goal in mind: To reproduce and
interpret speech. This means specialization. It means a narrow band of
frequencies that we hear more clearly than others. The generally
accepted range of these 'speech' frequencies is from 500Hz to 5Khz.
Because of this phenomena, we do not hear the registers above and below
this range within the total 20-20,000 bandwidth as easily. Because of
this, most people actually don't want a measurable flat frequency
response. Also, because lower frequencies are harder to hear at lower
levels, most people want a little added boost in the bottom end and, in
many cases, gently tapering off as one gets into the upper octaves. If
you've heard a system that you subjectively really liked, it would be
interesting to graph its response and see how flat it really measured.
Conversely, we've had clients that knew how their hearing in the higher
octaves was not as good as it used to be. We actually designed rooms
that allow for more of the energy -- and recommended speakers that excel
-- in the higher octaves. Some people would potentially frown on this
approach but music is ultimately for enjoyment, not measurement
statistics. Measurements should be used as informational tools to attain
that level of enjoyment. They should not dictate what constitutes
enjoyment.

Hi, Uncle_Vic.

If what the link tell is true.
Then why so many great audio designers still design their products with flat frequency response?
How about for your 6 subs? Any strong theory to support? Any link pula you can cut and paste?

Just like to have some discussion on audio and not to say being after whose and whose neck, uncle.

Don't based too much practical applications of theory(theories). There are more important time to spend on enjoying the music we individually and differently know how best to listen and optimise our enjoyement of music.

Let the forummers here who has listen to my setup tell u about it. I'm blazing new trails, nothing in the 'net that would be of any help to u. I'm a innovator, treading out unchartered territories.

Hello, Uncle Vic.

There are 2 types of funny audiophiles:

1) They will not like or never attend to live event when their audio system not sound like live event. These kind of audiophiles may like masturbading more than make love.

2) They will ask other don't bother too much about audio/acoustic theories when they know nothing about it. Normally they like to bullshit their own invented shit theories.

You are fall into only Group 2 or both?

Another typical sarcastic and rude forummer with nothing to do but to only find fault on someone.

Are you an audiophile or just fault finder?

Just enjoy your hifi and be nice to all audiophiles.
We audiophiles are like brothers, aren't we?

Nil wrote:Another typical sarcastic and rude forummer with nothing to do but to only find fault on someone.

Are you an audiophile or just fault finder?

Just enjoy your hifi and be nice to all audiophiles.
We audiophiles are like brothers, aren't we?

male & female can't be brothers but lovers

you are female, aren't you?

Nil wrote:Another typical sarcastic and rude forummer with nothing to do but to only find fault on someone.

Are you an audiophile or just fault finder?

Just enjoy your hifi and be nice to all audiophiles.
We audiophiles are like brothers, aren't we?

Hi, Miss Nil.

How could I find out the fault if there is no fault?
It seems like you know also somebody is bullshitting some faults here and there.


Sorry if I make you feel rude or impolite.
Just frustrated when someone not answer questions direct but turn here and there.

We are running a risk of deviating too far from topic, i.e. about Winston Ma's room. Please stay in topic everyone.

Hi, Mr Moderator.

I always welcome for healthy discussion about audio and music.

Just frustrated when some silly guys simply said something silly things like "flat response cannot listen one/cannot listen for long one", "dun bother too much about acoustic/audio theories", "blazing new trails. An innovator, treading out unchartered territories." (Who he think he is? David Wilson or Nelson Pass? Treading unchartered territories? Or trying to pull some newcomers in audio circle to hit the wall together with him and his stone head?)

Anyway, let's continue the topic.
Sorry for all the rude or impolite words from me.

Hi, mr We

Since WE all are hifi forumers here, why can't you talk politely ?

Both of you and Uncle Vic are aged 52+56=108 already ! Just like

Cantonese said : 一百岁唔死都有新闻 ！Btw, your behavior act like

无 间 狐 （MGF), and you turned up that day and used this

the most. Since you are in Tawau(if not busit), how do you

know Vic using 6 sub like 无 间 狐 mentioned before ? Is that he told

you or you were him ?

Vic, 别跟他一般见识，他要做hifi师父，就让给他吧。免得heart attack 更不

划算！

Hi, Mr Erikgoh.

The only thing I need to clarify is that. I AM NOT MGF.

Regarding 6 subs or multisubs, you could find more information inside this forum and others.

Are you multisubs (more than 2) users too? Great.
Please enjoy your music and hifi journey.

We,

Suit yourself to be rude and sarcastic, you are showing us your "virtue".

erikgoh wrote:Hi, mr We

Since WE all are hifi forumers here, why can't you talk politely ?

Both of you and Uncle Vic are aged 52+56=108 already ! Just like

Cantonese said : 一百岁唔死都有新闻 ！Btw, your behavior act like

无 间 狐 （MGF), and you turned up that day and used this

the most. Since you are in Tawau(if not busit), how do you

know Vic using 6 sub like 无 间 狐 mentioned before ? Is he told

you or you were him ?

Vic, 别跟他一般见识，他要做hifi师父，就让给他吧。免得heart attack 更不

划算！

The rude and sarcastic MGF had become history, he has recently been nicer to all the forummers and audiophiles.

tlkoo wrote:

Nil wrote:Another typical sarcastic and rude forummer with nothing to do but to only find fault on someone.

Are you an audiophile or just fault finder?

Just enjoy your hifi and be nice to all audiophiles.
We audiophiles are like brothers, aren't we?

male & female can't be brothers but lovers

you are female, aren't you?

A womanisers only treat female lovers. So, are you womaniser, Mr tlkoo?

yeah, don't look at me ... i'm too busy with vinyls lately ...

zenith alignment Baerwald-Loefgren-Stevenson?, tracking force, azimuth, drive-belt tensions, anti-skate, VTA, effective arm mass, etc... decisions decisions !

Erikgoh, don't simply fitnah and be a shit-stirrer here. Let mr. 6-subwoofer & mr. Tawau sort it out themselves. Not taking any sides here.

With regards to fellow frummer NIL. Not sure if NIL are really a man with a false identity here, or really a woman actually. I'm not bothered unlike some other forummers here. NIL could even be a hermaphrodite for all i care. But more impotantly, does NIL play vinyl ? If so , good... can have some healthy talk on the virtues of vinyl over CD & MP3. (I don't discriminate)


I am also innovating a new theory here: on why people are so easily pissed
off and who is on who's neck and so on and so forth.

It must be due to the harsh and terrible sound of listening to too much digital sources! Even a dCS or Meridian's new apodising filters cannot cure the glare and ear-poking nature of CD sound.
Did someone say MP3?? ->Ouch!!

Maybe if everyone played more vinyl, they won't be so edgy and
pissed-off all the time...

So for some of you who got your knickers wedged-up up too far your a$$, calm the fudge down and go get yourself a spanking new turntable, or revive your old one if it's been collecting dust in the storeroom.

Cure your digital sound malaise.

And while you're at it, see how tuning the TT setup in relation to room acoustics also changes the sound. Different cartridge alignment, & TT placement, different room acoustic effects.

Mf,

Your very well understanding of a hermaphrodite has obviously explained your true gender .