home audition

Have you guys ever ask or get any home audition from any hifi shop.How long you guys audition it?The reason I ask this is because there is a friend of mine who is working in a hifi shop(will not be disclose hehe).He was scold by a customer for not giving him home audition for 1 week and the speaker cost 20k.That guy actually threaten to post to all hifi forum about this shop.he also want to write to speaker company regarding this matter.he said he have been to all the hifi shop in malaysia and was given home audition for more than 1 week.so any of you guys ever got more than 1 week audition?

I personally think this is at the discretion of the shop and I would think it is perhaps only available to very selected customers, if indeed even available to any customer at all. Think about it. RM20k speakers. Just let people take home and audition. 1 week somemore. After that, how to sell ? How much to sell ? How many more pairs would the shop have to sell just to make back the cost of that demo speaker ? How much margin do one make from a RM20k speaker anyway ? Even if it is a ridiculously high figure, the shop still needs to sell several pair just to make back the cost. Is it that easy to sell a RM20k speaker nowadays ? After that, how to pay for the cost of running the shop ?

It is as Wong says. I think hifi shops are selective about who they are willing to leave speakers with. Also bare in mind, if they lend out speakers for a week ON A MONTHLY BASIS, then they cant show these speakers to other potential clients. You have to be a regular with a track record for them to consider a home demo as being viable.

In all fairness, home demo's may not in fact do justice to the speakers or gear. They should be demo-ed under circumstances that bring out their best.

Just my 5 cents.

Home audition is at the discretion of the seller. That customer has certainly crossed the line by a large margin. Advise your friend that as a frontliner, I am afraid he has to take this s**t from customers. Every occupation has its own hazards. Who say life is a bed of roses.

The thing that my friend afraid is he threaten to dirty the shop name by posting to all hifi forum regarding this matter so my friend ask me to clarify this matter before he post this in any hifi forum.i belive my friend try his best to satisfy this customer but this guy still angry

this is not really about hifi anymore, but about human behavior. I own my own small business, dealing with all sorts of customers as well, although it is not a hi fi business, but people are people. Some demand the world but won't pay 5 cents. These persons we don't really need, and with a lot of prayer, they eventually find they cannot bully anymore, and go and 'kachau' some one else.

Business is a win win situation. You provide a service FOR WHICH YOU ARE PAID FOR. This seems to be a win-loose situation for your poor friend.

The best advice i have received from someone wise in my life for such situations is this... ''when some one tries to talk untruths or lies or manipulate the truth about you, your best weapon is to behave such that none will believe him.''

Bal.

i think your friend should charge rental for home demo of such speakers. like that, he can designate it demo speakers and recoup the cost along the way, then sell it to someone looking for a used bargain. good idea, no?

What happens if the guy wants to buy but demands half price ? And then threatens to use the same trick if he doesn't get the discount ?

It is difficult for us (moderators and/or admin) to really get involved as it will mean taking sides and we really don't know the details of the situation. But if that person is to come over here and post, I would think regular forumers here would be able to differentiate a vendetta or a blatant attempt at 'blackmail' over a genuine case of poor customer service.

Meaning this.

The best I can suggest is that if your friend's poilicy is really not to offer home demo, then if he decides to take a stand, then perhaps he can register here in this forum. And if the said customer is to post whatever he threatens to do over here in this forum, then your friend should also post in the same thread explaining his side of the story.

As a moderator, I will NOT get involved at all. I.e. I will be silent and let both sides present their view and then let the forumers make their own decision and form their own opinions. I.e. my oft stated policy : "forumers here are matured adults and can think for themselves".

I believe you guys have this several times, even when there are disputes between a seller and buyer here recently. Personally I am very firm with this. Of course it will be how things are only here in this forum.

Viboys,

I think you friend is either very sick or arrogant for getting mad. Quite a number of prople bought speakers worth more than RM 20K without home audition for a week and they never complained. The arrangement is entirely up to the shop owner. While consumers expect good service, they have to be reasonable too. Please tell him to stop crying and stop making threat. I will definitely kick him really hard in his ass if I were the shop owner.

By the way, a note of thanks to Kenny Sin of Hiway Laser. I drove past Kenny's shop in SS2 about 2 months ago and I was listening to a SACD player with a price tag of US$ 6,000. I asked Kenny casually if he would allow me to bring it home for further audition. Kenny said yes to me withou any hesitation at all and all I had to do was to sign on a hand written loan DO without any verification. I promised to return the loaner within a week but I was tied up with work and was away from KL. I returned the unit to Kenny almost a week late and Kenny still greeted me with a very friendly smiling face. I was rather embarassed and bought some Cardas cable lifter from him at a very good price. Kenny really taught me what good customer service is all about. I am in sales line and I learned a valuable lesson from Kenny.

Thank you very much, Kenny. You are one of the most down to earth and sincere sale person I have ever met.

Just wondering ... when you buy something with a 20k price tag on it, maybe 18k after discount, would you want it new, still unpacked and virgin ... to be first caressed by your own hands .... or would you mind if it has been out for demo once or twice .... a bit used, and maybe a bit like a hooker? Just wondering ... that's all ...guess some may not even know if the dealer is good at repacking ...

i heard this story from a dealer the other day.

one customer wanted to take home a pair of speakers costing RM60,000 for a month. the dealer said okay.

the customer returned the speakers after home demo-ing for a month and then flew to england and bought the same speakers there and shipped them back (apparently to save on import tax).

sflam maybe its case to case basis but the speaker that the guy ask is the only pair there is in the store and like dheensay what if there is another person want to audition the speaker and we have to let him doen because of this guy

Malaysian consumers not aware of their own rights, in the UK there is a money back guarantee if not satisfied with the purchase..

mofaz wrote:Malaysian consumers not aware of their own rights, in the UK there is a money back guarantee if not satisfied with the purchase..

Money back guarantee if there is a defect, perhaps. Money back guarantee if what was promised, was not delivered, perhaps. But to buy a pair of speakers and then say it does not fit in with your system - there is no money back for that.

I do not think any dealer has to do a home audition. It is their right as the seller to determine what constitutes good bussiness practice. Lending out your gear for a week is ridiculous, especially if its on demo. The potential loss of other clients vs a single client who may or may not be serious? What if the item gets damaged? Will the buyer take responsibility?

I think its silly to be upset or make fuss.

Hi,
Presume that your friend is working in that HiFi Shop (Employee), think its better for the Boss to decide what to do, if its a chain-shop, the branch manager to decide or Area Manager, maybe back to the "Boss" to decide.

The "Boss" of the shop have a right to refuse a sale/demo/arrangement if he or she thinks its not beneficial to the establishment. Its not always "customeer are always right" and it a mutual consensus. There is always risk of running a business and I believe bad review on hifi forum will not kill off a business. You just have to take it all in and move on. If Bad press can kill a business, then some business will die off so many times already eg; Bose, Monster

Money back guarantee will only work here when Malaysian adopt no nego kau-kau business. Buy at list price, practised at kwai lau country. (They look at you one kind when you nego with the kwai lau salesman...) By then seller might offer money back guarantee. IMHO seller can adopt refund on unsatisfied equipment but will need to charge restocking fee( penalty fee) say 25% like practised in some kwai lau country. The refund item can be resold out again as "demo item" savings for people like me...

Note: Kwai Lau=Mat salleh

I think the customer has every right to have aa home audiotion.

It is standard practise in the western world and Japan,and i do not see why it cannot be standard practise here.

A lot of Dealers buy the first pair at "DEMO" price-this is a special price that the Manufacturers sell to the daeler at normally cost +5%.Well i know for a fact that this supposedly speakers that is supposed to be used as "DEMO" are being sold at full price

too many rotten apples amongst the dealers locally for Malaysia to make it big in Hifi scene.

To all AUDIOPHILES in Malaysia,I urge you to ask for what is rightfully yours-home demo;especially when it comes to loudspeakers.If not ,YES write and complaint to the manufacturers .The Dealer deserve to loose the distributorship for being greedy
price

You are right about rotten apples. There are some who have the cheek to sell demo items to unsuspecting and unknowing buyers at retail prices.

However, it is the absolute right of the dealer to choose who he wishes to let the gear go to for a demo. Now if the dealer refuses an audition at his shop - this would be daft.

Also, it is not standard practise in the west or japan to lend out high end speakers to every john, jesus and Jehovah. Home auditions are usually reserved for people who are known hifi enthusiasts.

My 55 cents worth.

Don't believe everything you hear or read about how ideal the situation is for hifi customers in Japan, Europe or US. It isn't, can be just like home. Unless the dealer and customer have a good relationship, built over time. Besides, dealers doing home demo there know their potential customers aren't going to S'pore or HK to get it cheaper after making use of their services!

As for manufacturers, they're well aware of Asian way of doing things. So unless there's a persistant stream of complaints about a dealer or distributor, and some questionable business practices are unearthed that is detrimental to the brand's reputation, they'll stick with the same people, until someone offers them bigger business.

tin wrote:I think the customer has every right to have aa home audiotion.

It is standard practise in the western world and Japan,and i do not see why it cannot be standard practise here.

A lot of Dealers buy the first pair at "DEMO" price-this is a special price that the Manufacturers sell to the daeler at normally cost +5%.Well i know for a fact that this supposedly speakers that is supposed to be used as "DEMO" are being sold at full price

too many rotten apples amongst the dealers locally for Malaysia to make it big in Hifi scene.

To all AUDIOPHILES in Malaysia,I urge you to ask for what is rightfully yours-home demo;especially when it comes to loudspeakers.If not ,YES write and complaint to the manufacturers .The Dealer deserve to loose the distributorship for being greedy
price

But sadly, while there are a few crooked dealers out there, there are just as many if not more crooked buyers and this is rampant among asian society.

While people are quick to condemn a crooked or dishonest dealer, no one wants to touch on the problem of even more crooked buyers who will find every opportunity to take advantage and abuse the retail market for their own selfish gain. Hence don't just blame the dealer-end. A few times the buyer-end also is less than fair as well.

That's why stuff like mail order with 30day money-back-guarantees will never take off in this part of the world for the foreseeable future.

Moral of the story, treat your regular hifi dealer with the respect and courtesy that they are deserving, and they will return the deed by ensuring they will sell u good lasting value instead of just making a one-time quick sale. Any dealer who's in the business for long term definitely won't want to screw the buyer over just one deal, but would rather keep repeat business and also to be agents of recommendation for their services. There's a word for it: Its called "Goodwill". And while stuff like an FM amp or an Oracle turntable still has a pricetag to it, "goodwill" is virtually priceless.

Hope this addresses the elephant in the room on why the hifi industry in Japan and Europe can do home demos (whether ideally or not), but not quite here in Bolehland just yet. This one... still "tak boleh".

You said it, mugen ....

My opinion is right the opposite of bassraptors and Mugen;

I think our customers are too naive,and many of our dealers are too greedy and ignorants.

Home audiotions,especially for a loudspeakers ARE A BASIC RIGHT of the consumers;no 2 ways about it.,and the manufacturers are aware of that THAT IS WHY THE DEMO UNIT IS HEAVILY subsidised in the first place!!!!So what if he finds that the other dealers give him better dealers,that is the RIGHT of the customers

The Speakers interact differently in different roomsl;this everybody knows.So how in the world would you know how it is suppose to sound in your room unless you take it home??!!!

too many vegetable sellers selling hi-fi here IMO>>>>
Everybody worth his salt knowsx

Everybody

everyone has a right to an opinion. in this day and age of information overload, a customer has only himself to blame if he is naive.

while the demo unit being heavily susbsided angle may hold true for mass market speakers, do you really think the same holds true higher up in the price range?

other dealers giving a better price is not an issue - every customer has the right to get the best deal he can. however, malaysians have a habit of making use of the services of the local distributor, and then going over to singapore to get stuff cheaper. dealers here know this. they behave accordingly when they suss this out along the way, especially with repeat offenders. I put something up for sale recently - someone called and said he could get it cheaper in S'pore. So I said, piss off, go ahead and don't bug me again. He apologised and said he was still interested, but the item had been sold by then. Well, not all dealers can afford to behave like this, but I'm fed up of idiots using the s'pore angle on me ... sorry, personal rant, let's move on ...

yes, speakers interact differently with each room but if you're a true-blue audiophile, you would spend some time and effort treating your room (and no, it ain't expensive if you use common sense and experiment) to the point where the environment behaves consistently with different speakers. i speak from years of messing with room acoustics from a diy-ers perspective. i'm no sound tech!

oh, yes, too many veggie and fish sellers in all sorts of business, not just hifi ... it's just a business and a living, some do it better, some are luckier, and they live or die by their principles ...

Perhaps a reasonable answer lies somewhere between these two opposing views, not that there is anything wrong at all in having opposing views.

Speakers can be big things to cart home in a car, sometimes the speakers all boxed up is way too big to get in a car. Seller could offer home delivery with set up, listen to see if the sound is roughly in the ball park of the buyer's expectations, if it is then it is a done deal. If it isn't then there is no point auditioning some more, just pack it up and take it back. In this case, i for one would still consider the speakers 'new' and not 'demo' or 'used'.

No?

Bal.

Will be a two sides of a coin view and there would be never a solution. End of the day it would be a "Buyer"and "Sellers" discretion and maturity that will be the call of the day.

"Willing Buyer, Willing Seller or is it Willing Seller, Willing Buyer"

cheers

Some points to consider.

1. As bassraptor says, do you really believe in those stories about how hifi dealers are in the western world ? Have you actually went and visited those dealers, or even better, asked for a home demo ? Did you actually get one ? I HAVE visited several dealers in the U.S. Europe, Hong Kong, etc and I have contacted a few dealers in U.K. Perhaps it was my luck. But the U.S. dealers are just as selective and can be just as rude as the bad local dealers. There was one case where an assistant invited me to listen to a McIntsoh system, the owner saw me, a chinaman sitting there, took the assistant aside and shouted at him a bit, then the assistant came in and just said "sorry dude, I need to take this" and he took out the CD that was playing and just left me sitting there with a silent non-playing system. That was hint to me to get lost because the owner clearly didn't think I was welcomed in his shop. In the U.K. I called several dealers and as I made the mistake of calling on a Thursday, after 4pm, ALL of them asked bluntly whether I am going to buy anything or not. When I said I am visiting London and I just wanted to visit their shop, they just mumble something about "today's thursday and everyone needs to rush off somewhere" and then just put down the phone. So before talking, have you ACTUAL REAL-LIFE experience to back up those claims of free and easy home-demos and return policy, especially for speakers costing around RM20k, or even for speakers costing RM5k ? Is life so easy ? On the contrary, Hong Kong dealers eventhough I expected shit service (as HongKies were at one time regarded as very rude people) gave me relatively good service. Of all the dealers I been to, a good local dealer EASILY gave me amongst the best customer service I have ever experienced. Those who have Singaporean hifi friends, ask them if it is easy to get a home demo, especially of a week's duration, of say a Wilson Sophia.

2. There is a saying "customer is King". It is true but only to a certain extent. I would amend it to say "a GOOD customer is KING. An asshole I don't want to be my customer". ALL of us works for a living. And we MUST bear in mind that roles of customer and seller are often interchangeable in our world today. I go to a hifi shop and I am a customer. My employer assigns me to a project and I then am a service provider and I then have my customer. I have generally a great number of customers who are my very good friend. To the extent that when they ask for help in areas which is not my responsibility - FAVOURS in assense, I will bend over backwards to help, But there are also the rare customers who really think they are 'King', just because they work for a bank for e.g. They shout and scream at anyone at anytime whenever they are in a bad mood. Well, those customers I will NOT give them the time of day. If ever I am assigned a project there, I will just go in, do the minimum according to contract and get out. Anything out of my scope ? Sorry dude. Mugenfoo hit the nail right on the head. TREAT your vendor with respect and as a human being and you will be treated with respect and like a human being. EVERYONE is human and as long as they are not an asshole, they deserve respect. Not to say there are no bad dealers in town but many of them are honest people out to make a honest living. Think hard about the very famous saying "Yau Looi Ng Hai Tai Sai". You got money ? So you think money buys you everything ?

3. If a dealer is out to cheat customers or give bad service, then by all means highlight in forums for everyone's benefit or even contact the manufacturer. BUT as they say, before judging other people, LOOK AT YOUR OWNSELF in the mirror and judge yourself first. A fair minded person will look back at himself and think hard whether what her/she has done or requested is fair or not. What I hate most is people who exploits forums, chatgroups, clubs, and contacts in general to get their own selfish means, in effect to threaten and blackmail someone so that they get themselves into a WIN-LOSE situation. You think a dealer is a begger ? Or they are running a charity ? Then you deserve to be treat like shit by YOUR customer. Think of how you want to be treated by other people. Then treat other people the same way you want to be treated. And be sensible. That means respect (and self-respect). While I have always encouraged open sharing of views and that everyone is entitled to his/her own views, one thing I believe needs not be mentioned is that if I, as a moderator, detects someone abusing this forum for his/her own selfish means, then I lock and delete the thread. And I will get the admin to ban the forumer forever. I think everyone will support me on this !

Anyway, these are my two sens on the matter.

Bassraptor,

There can never be a'perfect'room.

It would be wrong to assume that ALL speakers behave the same way.
They way the speaker interact with the room is the single most im[portant way as to how the speaker will sound.......some speaker like diffusers some like absorbers....some like it hot and some like it cold,so the saying goes..

And why in the world would things cost more here than tiny dot?
The tax is WAY>>>> cheaper here.
the rental is ridiculously low here...
The salesmen are paid in peanuts ,not money..
petrol is cheaper here
transport cost is WAY cheaper here....blah...blah..

Tropical Audio{Harbeth}and Asia Sound{Rega] really get it right in term of pricing......but ..CMY? now that is something else....

I also think the hifi prices in Malaysia are so frustrating when you compare to Singapore, especially when our income levels are lower. But blame it on the Malaysian duty structure... I don't think it's because our Malaysian dealers tack on a higher profit margin.

......and Why do i feel that the moderators here are very-dealer- centric....anything to disclose guys????I think it is for the dealers to come forward and be a man and defend themselves.....

Tin,
I think dealers have no time to come here, they're busy with their business. It's just people like us who deal with dealers all the time and see both sides of the coin, and others who've had good or bad experiences with dealers.

And to get it out in the open, my name is Sujesh and I work with a newspaper. From my point of view, there are dealers and customers with good and bad attitudes, everyone reacts differently with each other ... if you see me as dealer-centric, that's because i've spent years studying and knowing them. at the end of the day, i'm still a customer, but one who knows how dealers function and the margins they make.

So, there, I'm out in the open ... anything more you want to know about me?

I never said there was a perfect room, although acoustic engineers would dispute that and say they could make one with the right budget! What I've done is identified the pros and cons of my room, and worked with that for my own treatment. So I when a new speaker is in, I know what it is doing and what the room is doing. That's my point - many audiophiles don't know their rooms and don't care to ...

This is going slightly off topic. But if I may, I do think room acoustics is very important, regardless of the type of speakers you have.

Back. Someone mentioned home audition is at discretion of dealer and i agree with that.

Take an example of someone walking into a Porsche showroom demanding a testdrive of the 911 GT2 RS. The manager will need to make a judgment call as I doubt there's a simple rule on this.

Anyways, it works both ways. The dealer has a right to refuse home audition just as the customer has a right to refuse business for the dealer.

How come we never ask Toyota/Proton/Honda for 1 week loan of their new cars before we purchase? We even put 10% deposit to wait for the cars to come in. All we get is a 30 minutes test drive right? With the salesman inside the car.

The best solution for both buyer and dealer is 1 whole day session at buyer's home, with all the kit required, in presence of the dealer. Maybe day 1 free, but day 2 chargeable. In this case, buyer can explore the kit as much as possible and the dealer need not to worry about buyer damagin the kit.

If you tell me that the dealer have to wait on his shop so cannot afford being at buyer's home the whole day, then that is just a lame excuse. To sell a 20K speakers, thats enough to warrant 1 day away from shop. He can even hire another staff to wait on his shop. Hifi shop is not a grocery shop where 10 or more people come in every other minute.

Dealers also have to work a bit lah to do sales. An extra effort like that can easily make them RM20K richer by revenue. Regardless of dealers saying that the profit margin is small, all of us are big enough to really know how much profit dealers make. If not, siapa mau be in this line of business.

My 2 rupiah

Prices in Malaysia is frustrating if product is represented by a Singapore company. Singapore importers takes a bit, even though it is little but is a lot for us after conversion. They supply to our Malaysian dealers. Malaysian dealers also need profit. Double pain to us. That is why we must encourage to help the local importers and dealers that support local importers to meet their quotas or acquire distributorship rights in Malaysia. As far as i know most of our local importers are not greedy. They price way below the international price. i must say Malaysian is the most rotten price around, not only in hifi but in construction machine also...They also would like to clear their stocks and to meet their target quota or else risk the lost of distributorship rights.

Home demos is only for the privillage if the dealer and customer qot kamching already. It is not a customer rights. If customer insist, he or she must pay transport charges inclusive of labour charge to install & Testing & Comissioning. Maybe customer can test few speakers before he decide. If he decided to take the speaker then the dealer might absorb it into the cost of purchase. It is good also for customer also less they always complain brought wrong item and have to resell it here under used items. Back to back square one again.

So viboy, your hifi dealer friend can quote him the above if his customer wants a home demo. At least pay our petrol and wages if you decide not to buy our speaker.....

I kena before when i want to sell my used amp, i drive all the way from subang to cheras for home audition but was later decline by buyer. The buyer use wharfedale 8.2 against my canggih amp. Reason: Sound no good...i kena chaar to mo seng chut....

mana untung selling your used item, sure lose money one. Further garam in my luka...Hilang petrol, hilang masa lagi worst kena cari orang lain to beli....

No more home audition for me anymore......

tin,

the situation is like this - if a dealer allows anybody to take speakers (RM20k or even less) for home audition, what will happen if the speakers are returned with damaged cones/domes or scratches (caused by pets or kids)?

who pays for the damages?

that is why dealers will allow only a few regular clients whom they know will be responsible and take good care of the speakers/amps/cd players to take them back for home auditions.

if a stranger i.e. new customer walks in and demands a home audition, it is only to be expected for the dealer to say no.

Let me set some things straight here.

What I detest most is people taking the route in arguement of debate, of accusing other people of something to get their own way Since when do someone set the standard on what we can or cannot do in this forum ? You have to excuse me because I have seen and have been the victim before (no more !) of unscrupulous netters who use this tactic. They have a personal agenda and then they put up a very one-sided post. Next, anyone is either with him(her) or 'against' him(her). Anyone against is called 'defensive', 'has an ulterior or hidden motive', 'something to gain', 'affiliated with the victim (dealer, manufacturer, individual person, etc)'. Suddenly he/she becomes the GOD in the forum. He/she decides what is fair and what is not fair and what is right and what is wrong, what can be done and what cannot be done.

Unfortunately things DO NOT WORK THIS WAY in this forum. Not the way I want to moderate it anyway. EVERYONE has a right to his/her own opinion and in a healthy objective discussion, EVERYONE has a right to say his/her piece, regardless of whether it is against or with the general flow of the thread. Like I said, this is the way I moderate threads in this forum. Along this way, there are several general rule of thumbs which I work with,

1. Forumers are individuals and individualistic. Therefore each of us has our own way of talking, writing, posting, etc. Within the requirements of courtesy and nettiquiet and respect, this means tolerating the idiosyncracies of each other's posting styles. E.g. if I feel strongly about something, I can have a rather forceful posting style. I emphasize certain points by CAPITALIZING certain words, like just now. This is a uniqueness of my postings that I expect people to realize and accept as part and parcel of a social network like a forum. Similarly, some people can be a bit sarcastic with their posts as I am sure everyone knows. Again, within the limits of courtesy and proper manners, it is the individual's right. Others may prefer to post in a language different from english. Again, there should be no issue. Similarly we cannot laugh at people who may not be good at english and post in broken english. Or people who have basic knowledge and ask a newbie question, by calling him 'stupid' or accusing him of being lazy or something (within reasons of course). Things like that.

2. EVERYONE has a right to post his or her opinions. There should be no personal attacks. And again, NO STUPID TRICKS like accusing people of being defensive or having ulterior motive just because they have a different opinion.

3. If we open a topic for discussion, within the limits of courtesy and legality, there are no boundaries. It doesn't mean only a dealer can defend a dealer and only a customer can defend a customer for e.g.. In any case, as I have clearly stated, no individual can be ONLY a customer or ONLY a seller. We switch roles very often in real-life. There are some things very specific to certain situations of course. E.g. as a moderator, I have been asked to intervene in a sales dispute sometimes but I have been very very firm that I will NEVER get involved as any transaction is strictly between the seller and buyer.

I will only state that I am not a dealer. In fact I almost never sells anything at all, even my used items, I thank my luck that often I like them enough and I can afford to keep them. Not all though as I recently had to trade in something which I am very fond of. Eventhough the new item is a lot better, I still misses the original item. Beyond that, I do not think I have to defend myself to anyone especially people who accuses others. It's the same for everyone here as well.

First of all, I am not a hifi dealer. I still don't think what the argument is all about. Whether or not a hifi dealer allow home demo is entirely up to the dealer. The dealer does not owe any potential buyer any obligation for hone demo. It is a business judgement and decision.

From my own experience, some dealers allow me to take home some components to try out while some don't. For those who don't I never hold any grudges against them and I never make any stupid threat to write to the manufacturers to complain . The business owners have every right to decide whether or not a prospect could take home a demo unit. Simple as that.

as for me , ok , i confess... i AM a hifi dealer actually ....
dear mr. moderators , pls upgrade my status to the 4 / 5 loudspeakers symbol .. since that 5th star has been proven to be too elusive for me to attain despite my 1000+ postings already.

Oh yeah .... what do i sell ? ... errr .. i sell hifi sarcasm and cynism. credit cards & Paypal accepted!

mugen, i think when you reach 2,000 posts, you'll get another star and become a 5-star forummer! ha ha ....

oh, the market for sarcasm and cynicism is a bit low here ...

bassraptor wrote:mugen, i think when you reach 2,000 posts, you'll get another star and become a 5-star forummer! ha ha ....

oh, the market for sarcasm and cynicism is a bit low here ...

Wahhh .... then thankfully i don't need to depend on that for money to survive, let alone to fund all these crazy hifi spendings !

Muhen, well, unlike Sujesh, I am a bit more 'approachable' and I will be happy to upgrade you. You want 5-stars ? Even 7-stars oso can ! With the right 'encouragement' of course !

WongKN wrote:Muhen, well, unlike Sujesh, I am a bit more 'approachable' and I will be happy to upgrade you. You want 5-stars ? Even 7-stars oso can ! With the right 'encouragement' of course !

Maybe Mugen can give you a home demo ... ??

Actually I was more thinking about emulating some of our 'leaders' . You know the saying "follow the leader"....

Mugen,
I thought you were selling retrofit car performance parts. Didnt i see you putting some puppys onto a honda sometime back

Tin,
I do not believe consumers are all that voilatile. The internet has opened up a lot of channels for comparrison, and given us access to prices and a huge database of information on products.

But coming back to home demo's, it is my humble opinion that the speakers themselves may not sound as good as they would in a dedicated hifi-room (say at the dealers). Let us assume that you are buying a pair of puppys (ala mugen) and going to do a home demo in a 10'x10'x10' naked room and powering it with a rotel 930 and using a mitsubishi DVD player as source. Can you actually say this is going to be a fruitful home demo? Will the puppys that cost a small fortune perform at their optimum? I think dealers prefer using their own OPTIMUM set-up to show off their speakers and rigs.

I believe as mentioned by bassraptor, if you are a hifi enthusiast and are a known party to sellers, then the chance of a home audition on a hi-end piece is much better. But to get ticked off if you are unable to get one....thats just being silly.

On a personal note, i wanted a home demo on a pair of speakers that cost about 5k (secondhand). I was told it was not possible, so i brought my amp and cdp over and sat down for 3+hours going thru various speakers. Then i decided on a cheaper pair which worked better.

Wow !! you're right dheensay .... so what performance part do u need ?

Is your amp not solid enuff in the bass dept? ... i got some amp strut tower bars just for you ! This will do the trick !

Or if your speaker alignment is not good, a set of my special custom made camber kit will solve all your speaker alignment problems !

Or your CD player not tracking those bits with enuff grip ? Hows about adding a SuperBit GT-wing to it ! Newly in stock just arrived! Guarantee sure chun-chun one !





Hurry hurry cheap sale !

To be courteous, sometimes the dealer will require user to deposit 'equivalent' amount of money as a matter of 'company policy' and symbol of 'commitment'

I dunno what other ways can be more courteous enough when a dealer faces certain 'entry level users' and some 'motive' oldphilers.

Didnt know mugen does camber kits . DIY Ka?

GT-wing sure to help with sonic improvement! Will deflect air flow away from CDP and therefore no more humming sound. YAY!

hifikrazy wrote:I also think the hifi prices in Malaysia are so frustrating when you compare to Singapore, especially when our income levels are lower. But blame it on the Malaysian duty structure... I don't think it's because our Malaysian dealers tack on a higher profit margin.

Yes, indeed. A staggering 15% import duty and 10% sales tax. Not to mention those forwarding charges and custom documentation fee.

About home demo, it is about the trust on the said customers. One would not want to hand the gears / equipments to someone who do not know how to take care of the items (read : abuse)

Scratches, dents, or whatever damage would be bad for the dealer.

I have a customer who auditioned a sub for nearly 5 hours. I let him test whatever he want to. At the end of the session, he told me that he could not make up his mind. He asked me whether possible to send this 71kg monster to his home (abt 90km away) for audition. The room is on 1st floor. I politely told him that I can't. I can only let him test the same sub in the foyer by moving it out of the HT room to let him have a rough idea of the changes in bass.

There is a customer whom I knew very well. He paid deposit in full for the sub and took it home for his own sweet test. It's been 3 weeks now. I think he might not return it

so who said that our local dealers don't oblidge home demos ???

mugenfoo wrote:so who said that our local dealers don't oblidge home demos ???

Foo, Mr Loud Boomy Boom Boom actually requested me to lug the gigantic sub to Penang to do a home demo for him to 'listering Hindi songs loud loud boomy boom boom'. NO WAY!

Anyway, I rather not do any home demo particularly for this sub. It is huge, and back breaking heavy. Only can demo in the HT room.

I got nothing that is hi-end enough. No RM20K loudspeakers.

Max, your power supply problem confirmed fixed already right ?