pariahed blu ray dish

hi! now we can buy the pariahed bluray dish at local market cost only rm25 to rm40.which is more then half compare with originel.and the quanlity is ok.is this will spoilt the bluray player lasser head?all the advise wellcome.thank

Hello chin cp,
First of all, before I answer your question,I'd really wish to point out that there is no "dish" to be used with the blu ray player,only discs.

These are not"pariah" discs as you presume but rather pirated.

Like almost everything else days,pirated discs are becoming increasingly common.
Whether or not these will ruin your player depends on the quality of the disc itself and also of your player.
Buy original & keep the pirates out, and also safeguarding your player.
This is the way to ensure that only quality goods are made available to us Malaysians,while shutting down shady operations,


Cheers & shalom
teleman51

You can buy both versions and compare yourself. As for worries of laser head or mechanism going kaput, I wager the BD player will be obsolete in 3 years time before something breaks down. My DVD player is still working like a horse although it has been used for nearly 7 years.

But using a BDplayer to play the DVDs, the picture is damn sharp thanks to the up-scaling. Normal DVD players (without the up-scaling) totally cannot compare on the visual quality.

OK, this is a VERY TOUGH issue to address. There will always be issues of piracy and its ill-effects but at the same time, the manufacturers (of the BluRay discs themselves) are NOT doing their part. They refuse to price competively so that normal folks like us can afford to buy lots of discs to enjoy. Rather they continue to want to price it their way, which is to U.S. standards. I know some of the importers personally and they say their principal doesn't give a shit about consumers. How to compete against piracy they asked their principal. FORCE the government to shut down all piracy. In the meantime, they still want to increase my price further !! Their attitude culminated with the most recent announcement, that the consumers be punished in this war against piracy since they are NOT GOOD ENOUGH to be able to fight the pirates. The approach of the terrorists - if you are not good enough to go head to head with your enemy, punish the innocents instead. Their attitude ? If the more affordable alternatives can be stopped, then they think that we the consumers will be FORCED to buy their goods at whatever exhorbitant price they dictate. This is the sad truth of the situation here.

OK, those are just my rants. As you can see, as a moderator, I am subjected to the same biasness and prejudices as all of you.

Now, to answer the question specifically. Those 'pariah' or pirated Blu-Rays you see are actually BD-ROMS. They are single layer type, with a capacity of 25GB. Despite the best of manufacturer's efforts, people have long ago found a way to rip into Blu-Rays. Consequently, the industry now is simply ripping out the BRs and recording them into the BD-ROMs. Note that this is unlike the pirated DVD industry whereby those DVDs are real DVDs and manufactured using the same machines which manufacturers the original DVDs, not DVD-ROMS.

Personally, talks about the disc destroying players are all bullshit. There is no physical means by which reading a disc with a laser can cause the laser to go kaputt. Furthermore, the bad news for the manufacturers is that these are BD-ROMs. And ALL Blu-Ray players are certified to play BD-ROMs. Often I wish the manufacturers will treat us with respect - that we are intelligent folks, able to reason out and think for ourselves, separate bullshit from facts.

Quality-wise, BDROMS will almost ALWAYS lose out to the original. So if you are a fussy bugger like me, you will have to swallow, and grin and bear it and fork out lots of hard earned cash to buy the originals over the original. In this case, it is not a case of whether one can see it or not (in the literal sense). It is a physical law itself. As explained BD-ROMs are single layer 25GB capacity. Most proper Blu-Rays are double layers and almost all of them weighs in at 30GB and beyond. SOMETIMES, the movie proper itself is less than 25GB with the BARE NECESSITIES of the soundtracks. E.g. movie plus AC35.1 soundtrack is 24+GB. In these cases, the pirates drops all the unnecessary soundtracks, remove the features and burns a bare minimum. These RARE cases, you get identical quality. In MOST cases, the pirates wants to keep most of the soundtracks. The bad news is TrueHD is EXTREMELY heavy in memory. So if you want the movie plus TrueHD, even DTS-HD Master Audio, it is almost certain you will EXCEED 25GB. What happens now is that the pirates COMPRESSES either the movie, or the soundtrack or both, in order to squeeze into the 25GB limit. As an indication, the original AVATAR BR weighs in at over 40GB in size.

My suggestions.
If you value the movie and wants to keep it as a collection, my suggestion is to buy the original, regardless of how much of an asshole the manufacturers are. After all, they know we have no choice, which is why they are so arrogant.

If you just want to watch, go buy those cheap DVDs, D-5 type would be enough.

If you want to watch and enjoy, wait until about 6 months to a year and until the proper D-9 type DVDs come out. Buy, watch, and most probably the DVD will then collect dust.

If you want to collect a LOT of discs, you probably will most develop a sort of '2-tier' rating, some movies you really love a lot. Those you buy original. Others you just want to watch again and again but they are not so 'critical'. I suppose those you can get the BD-ROMs.

Note that I am of course NOT promoting to support the pirates. But let me be completely honest. For a mere mortal like me - and my employer prides themselves as paying above average salaries for the industry - I can AT MOST, afford to buy 2, maybe 3 Blu-Ray discs a month. And that is by cutting down on other luxuries. A good BR is RM150, often more. Buy 3 and that is RM450. ALL MY BREAKFAST AND LUNCH over the whole month DOES NOT AMOUNT TO RM450. When you spend more on Blu-Rays than on necessary food, then you KNOW that something is wrong somewhere. A Blu-Ray costs more than an audiophile LP or CD. You can probably buy 2 audiophile CDs for the same amount of money and probably still have change left over for a meal.

The complete truth, without sugar-coating.

mugenfoo wrote:But using a BDplayer to play the DVDs, the picture is damn sharp thanks to the up-scaling. Normal DVD players (without the up-scaling) totally cannot compare on the visual quality.

this is very true, now i have to dump my dvd player somewhere in australia & only torture my ps3 to serve as gaming station, movie player for normal dvd or BD, mp3 players yada yada bla bla bla.. hopefully tahan lame.. anyways BD gaming + LCD LED tv rocks!!

Spoiler:

WongKN wrote:OK, this is a VERY TOUGH issue to address. There will always be issues of piracy and its ill-effects but at the same time, the manufacturers (of the BluRay discs themselves) are NOT doing their part. They refuse to price competively so that normal folks like us can afford to buy lots of discs to enjoy. Rather they continue to want to price it their way, which is to U.S. standards. I know some of the importers personally and they say their principal doesn't give a shit about consumers. How to compete against piracy they asked their principal. FORCE the government to shut down all piracy. In the meantime, they still want to increase my price further !! Their attitude culminated with the most recent announcement, that the consumers be punished in this war against piracy since they are NOT GOOD ENOUGH to be able to fight the pirates. The approach of the terrorists - if you are not good enough to go head to head with your enemy, punish the innocents instead. Their attitude ? If the more affordable alternatives can be stopped, then they think that we the consumers will be FORCED to buy their goods at whatever exhorbitant price they dictate. This is the sad truth of the situation here.

OK, those are just my rants. As you can see, as a moderator, I am subjected to the same biasness and prejudices as all of you.

Now, to answer the question specifically. Those 'pariah' or pirated Blu-Rays you see are actually BD-ROMS. They are single layer type, with a capacity of 25GB. Despite the best of manufacturer's efforts, people have long ago found a way to rip into Blu-Rays. Consequently, the industry now is simply ripping out the BRs and recording them into the BD-ROMs. Note that this is unlike the pirated DVD industry whereby those DVDs are real DVDs and manufactured using the same machines which manufacturers the original DVDs, not DVD-ROMS.

Personally, talks about the disc destroying players are all bullshit. There is no physical means by which reading a disc with a laser can cause the laser to go kaputt. Furthermore, the bad news for the manufacturers is that these are BD-ROMs. And ALL Blu-Ray players are certified to play BD-ROMs. Often I wish the manufacturers will treat us with respect - that we are intelligent folks, able to reason out and think for ourselves, separate bullshit from facts.

Quality-wise, BDROMS will almost ALWAYS lose out to the original. So if you are a fussy bugger like me, you will have to swallow, and grin and bear it and fork out lots of hard earned cash to buy the originals over the original. In this case, it is not a case of whether one can see it or not (in the literal sense). It is a physical law itself. As explained BD-ROMs are single layer 25GB capacity. Most proper Blu-Rays are double layers and almost all of them weighs in at 30GB and beyond. SOMETIMES, the movie proper itself is less than 25GB with the BARE NECESSITIES of the soundtracks. E.g. movie plus AC35.1 soundtrack is 24+GB. In these cases, the pirates drops all the unnecessary soundtracks, remove the features and burns a bare minimum. These RARE cases, you get identical quality. In MOST cases, the pirates wants to keep most of the soundtracks. The bad news is TrueHD is EXTREMELY heavy in memory. So if you want the movie plus TrueHD, even DTS-HD Master Audio, it is almost certain you will EXCEED 25GB. What happens now is that the pirates COMPRESSES either the movie, or the soundtrack or both, in order to squeeze into the 25GB limit. As an indication, the original AVATAR BR weighs in at over 40GB in size.

My suggestions.
If you value the movie and wants to keep it as a collection, my suggestion is to buy the original, regardless of how much of an asshole the manufacturers are. After all, they know we have no choice, which is why they are so arrogant.

If you just want to watch, go buy those cheap DVDs, D-5 type would be enough.

If you want to watch and enjoy, wait until about 6 months to a year and until the proper D-9 type DVDs come out. Buy, watch, and most probably the DVD will then collect dust.

If you want to collect a LOT of discs, you probably will most develop a sort of '2-tier' rating, some movies you really love a lot. Those you buy original. Others you just want to watch again and again but they are not so 'critical'. I suppose those you can get the BD-ROMs.

Note that I am of course NOT promoting to support the pirates. But let me be completely honest. For a mere mortal like me - and my employer prides themselves as paying above average salaries for the industry - I can AT MOST, afford to buy 2, maybe 3 Blu-Ray discs a month. And that is by cutting down on other luxuries. A good BR is RM150, often more. Buy 3 and that is RM450. ALL MY BREAKFAST AND LUNCH over the whole month DOES NOT AMOUNT TO RM450. When you spend more on Blu-Rays than on necessary food, then you KNOW that something is wrong somewhere. A Blu-Ray costs more than an audiophile LP or CD. You can probably buy 2 audiophile CDs for the same amount of money and probably still have change left over for a meal.

The complete truth, without sugar-coating.

Ever since i "discovered" the wonders of thepiratebay.org , now even the pirate DVD/BD sellers cannot untung my money anymore....

Not just "thepiratebay.org", there are tonnes around just need to work the way to find them.

What size are the downloaded movies ? Almost all downloadable HD movies are not true HD. Or if they are 1080p, they are compressed. If your movie file size is not somewhere in the region of 30GB (with all soundtracks), then it is DEFINITELY compressed. In a way, nothing beats the original. It is a true pity that the BR manufacturers are so damn greedy.

Wong is right, but even 8-12GB downloads, whether claimed to be 720P or 1080P, look fantastic on my 42-inch HD-ready (only) plasma!

BTW, what's the cheapest BD player here right now? I'm still in 2 minds over buying one ... I'm not a collector, so why pay RM50-150 for a movie to watch it just once. Heck, even pirate ones! Just taking up space .... unlike my hard disk ...

WongKN wrote:What size are the downloaded movies ? Almost all downloadable HD movies are not true HD. Or if they are 1080p, they are compressed. If your movie file size is not somewhere in the region of 30GB (with all soundtracks), then it is DEFINITELY compressed. In a way, nothing beats the original. It is a true pity that the BR manufacturers are so damn greedy.

bassraptor wrote:Wong is right, but even 8-12GB downloads, whether claimed to be 720P or 1080P, look fantastic on my 42-inch HD-ready (only) plasma!

BTW, what's the cheapest BD player here right now? I'm still in 2 minds over buying one ... I'm not a collector, so why pay RM50-150 for a movie to watch it just once. Heck, even pirate ones! Just taking up space .... unlike my hard disk ...

These files are usually known as "Blu-Ray Rips" . they can be full 720p or 1080p, file size varies between 9GB to 11GB. Usually compressed using H.264 and saved as a "Matroska Video Format". (.mkv , .mts, .m2ts file extensions)
Audio tracks would usually be Dolby 5.1, DTS 5.1, or even Dolby/DTS 6.1 and an abundance of multi-language subtitle tracks as well.

Comparing like with like, definitely won't be as full-blown high.res as real Blu-Ray, but definitely SUPERIOR than dual-layer DVD. And it still gives the full 1080p or 720p resolution depending on source format.


But the best part of it is: It's ***** FREE *****. (if u know how to steal them fair n' square).

Which is why bassraptor ain't complaining one bit .

I paid for it (and it is not cheap) for the ISO. Each ISO is about 30GB. I am using a HDX BD1 to playback and the picture quality is quite good. Ever wonder GT Queen BlUEray look like ? time for Bassraptor to chip in.

In my view good downloaded compressed files are already quite excellent when played through 42" or 50" display panels. The difference may not be significantly huge when compared to true HD material in the form of original blu-ray discs. True HD material with a size of 25-30GB will probably hold an upper hand when played through a big screen TV or projector, picture-wise or sound-wise.

I have seen movies on compressed files(stored on hard drives) with images projected onto a 100" screen through a high-end projector. Picture quality looks pretty spectacular to me. In this hobby, if one doesn't compare then he'll be fine. :-)

Ha ha ... actually, if I wish they had an advanced IPTV system where I could just rent HD stuff. Unifi appears to be moving in this direction, but knowing TM, they'll get stuck along the way ...

1, Humans are extremely adaptable creatures. Meaning we get used to quality very very fast. In no time you will start to see artifacts with those compressed HD movies. For a while I thought I would be happy with those downloaded HD movies. But even on a FullHD Panasonic 42" plasma, the difference between 720p and 1080p is like night and day. And when I watched full HD CARS compressed and uncompressed, in the fast moving scene, I was severely dissapointed when the picture become blocky.

2. Some people are already selling ripped BR, in its full glory complete with everything in softcopy form. You tell them which movie, you pay the money, you give them your harddisk and the movie gets copied to the harddisk. You will need a player. Plenty around.

3. Mediaplex in MidValley has started a BR rental club.

Wong,

1. Ah, well, I'll cross that bridge later ...

2. Oh, yes, I know, I started off that way too ... I'm looking for a legal outlet. Meanwhile, my frustrations are tempered by dicey downloads ...

3. Yes, I know them ... the guy behind me asked my advice, I told him to make sure it was all legal, or he would get into trouble. I shud call him one day to find out ...

Ah, you are a very noble person sir, eager to ensure everything is legal. I suppose you need to work within some extra constraints which the rest of us do not have to contend with. An undesirable side effect of the job I suppose.

For myself, I am well aware of the ills of piracy. My own trivial work on my automobile website has been stolen without my permission (and not given due credit) enough times that I know how it feels like to have one's hard work pinched way and then credit claimed where it wasn't due.

But on the other side of the coin, many years ago I had an arguement with someone about the legit-ness of all these stuff, music at that time. I am afraid my patience broke down when I was called a pirate simply because I taped a cassette of a CD for use on my car. "But I paid full price for the original CD", I exclaimed. "I just wanted a copy for my personal use in my car when I drive to work". "I don't care. It is still piracy. If you want to listen in your car, you are supposed to buy an original cassette". "Of the exact same album" I asked. "Yes this is what WE want YOU to do". "Like I give a f**k" about what you want", I said quietly to myself (sorry for the language).

When one is faced with a greedy win-lose arguement, it can be unsurprising how people can just throw in the towel and say "screw it, I will not be bothered with all these legit stuff anymore". Especially when one starts reading how artists and stars goes into overdose of drug or alcohol abuse and all those illegal excesses, one starts to wonder about the logic of the whole thing.

Ah well, I am lucky I am almost fully occupied with my music nowadays and that my taste are of the older variety anyway, of which I only get used LPs, all originals only (they sounds best).

Let me make my position on copyright clear - if you have bought a CD, you have every right to transfer it to any medium you like, so long as it is exclusively for your personal use. You'd win this argument in court, even in the US or Europe.

Those greedy recording companies that sucked the blood out of artistes for too long are paying the price! Thank god the Internet came and changed all the rules of marketing.

Oh, I like the way those pirate bay guys operate! Sticking it to the face of the man ....

Back to the lanun bluray dish, what I heard from local hifi shop is that those lanun stuff be it cd, dvd or bd is of cheap quality disc.

Due to that they tend to run out of shape after quite some time, not 100% flat anymore & that could harm / scratch the lense.

I dont know how true is that la since I have tonnes of pirated discs and the player still working well for years.

Alex, experience beats bullshit anytime right ? As for Blu-Ray transfers, come-on, they are high quality computer grade BD-ROMs. This is what I dislike most about the manufacturers. If they want to combat piracy, do it legitmately as well. Most importantly, DON'T treat us consumers like we are fools.

I have been reading this thread with interest and I'll say I'm very very disappointed with the way things are going and especially with both Bassraptor and WongKN, who are Moderators! It doesn't matter what the reasons are, but piracy MUST NOT be condoned! Downloading is still piracy unless you have paid for it or the original copyright owners have granted such rights. I'd like to believe that you do not understand why the legitimate products would cost as such, but if you had taken the trouble to explore the findings, you will have a better understanding. It is not very nice for Moderators to take sides or criticize based on one's emotions. It doesn't reflect very well on the impartiality of the position of "Moderator", which to me must command respect and integrity. Sorry.

And talking about making things affordable, why not put this question to Krell, Kharma, Nordost, Wadia, FM, Magico, Coltrane, Porshe, BMW, Ferrari, etc, etc?

The following is just IMO of course... feel free to disagree there.


Krells, Nordosts ... etc .. are premium articles in question. Not quite a good example as indicative to the masses anyways. besides ... people who can afford and pay for such, will know the quality and brand of such articles. But we'll get back to this point in a bit.

And hey, if people want to use a Ferrari and go lumba-haram with it .... is it the manufacturer Ferrari's fault ?


While it is an accepted fact that Piracy is Illegal .. but what is Illegal is not necessarily immoral and here's my take on it:

Actually ... the reality is that PIRACY does SERVE a useful purpose , despite how the copyright owners whine and bitch about it.

Reality no.1 : Pricing and affordability really puts into question how the music distributors go about selling "legitimate" software. For this, i really like to reference the "Big Mac" standard. How much is a BigMac in NY, London and in KL ? If McD converts the price of a BigMac from USD->MYR ... can anyone take a guess how much a BigMac would COST locally ??? Anyone ?
Would a KL made BigMac be inferior to a London BigMac ? I'd think not. We'll get back to this point later in a bit also...

Reality no.2 : The dinosaur decision makers in the music/entertaimnent industry are all too hung up on territorial rights ... much like canines who go around doing the pee-pee here and there to "mark" their territories. The Internet has just totally BLOWN APART all these archaic channels already.

Lets take iTunes ..... all legal music & movies to be bought/rented and with convenience AND also affordable. But guess what ? Can only sell in USA, UK and some Euro countries! Why not in MY or HK or etc ??? Because the copyright holders still wanna screw the consumers in these developing countries by making us pay exhorbitant prices instead of making music affordable to all. There are plenty of other legit online music distribution channels besides Apple's iTunes.. and guess what ? They too still cannot sell outside their supposedly licensed/authorised jurisdictions.

Reality no. 3: Piracy is sort of a necessary evil that levels the playing field and brings a reality check to everyone. If its affordable enough for everyone, piracy would lose it's relevancy. Take a lesson from the IT industry.... Microsoft now has MS Office, home & student editions to make it affordable for everyone. Same goes for Adobe and many major software houses. If these mega corporations in the Computer industry can embrace change and roll along with consumer needs (convenience a nd affordability), i just cannot understand why the the counterparts in the entertainment industry can't do the same. Instead, they whine and bitch about how easy it is to copy and pirate stuff over the internet .... which is the same lame-ass reason as to why the govt needs to ban selling blank CDRs or DVDRs ... or going further back in the past, its the same lame arguments about how cassette tapes and home-taping is killing the music industry. But my last guess is that 50-cent, Kelly Clarkson, Taylor Swift and surely, newest and latest up&comer Adam Lambert will continue raking in the moolah despite all these whining and bitching about "piracy".

Last but not least .... the poor state of channels and distribution in the entertainment industry leaves too much gaps for the pirates to flourish.

Heck, there are even grey-market players who serve a commercial need by bringing in not-so-popular and audiophile material into the local market. A keen eye on the labels of such materials would show:
Around the World Music (Mont Kiara, KL)
Inter-Global Music. (based in KL also)


I have no doubt that Around the world Music and Inter-Global Music serve a space in the market and in a legitimate way. And audiophiles would pay some **premium** for the perceived quality of the material being sold.

But as for the mainstream stuff: is when would the really big boys like Universal Music and Warner Music would really wake up and make their main-stream stuff affordable to the masses, as per the local market conditions?

Remember, we're talking about BigMacs here. And this is suppose to be affordable to the masses. Not the premium fancy French restaurant servings that only the elite of society can indulge in.

But would the quality of a local Big Mac here be inferior to one in NY or London ? I'd think not. But too bad i CANNOT same the same for CDs of the same artists. One US pressed CD vs a locally made CD , both legit but the local CD has such vastly inferior sound quality, with the same high price. So who's screwing who here now?

I'd rather buy "Imported CD" from amazon.com and be satisfied. Compared to paying the SAME price even after CONVERSION for a locally made INFERIOR product. Yes, i've done so specifically on many an occasion already.


So lets not be so quick to cast the first stone here, shall we ?

No amount of legislation and enforcement will ever totally wipe out Piracy. But good common sense and sensitivities to local market conditions would be the best way to make piracy "irrelevant". Too bad the decision-making dinosaurs of the Entertainment Industry still hasn't quite awakened to today's reality still.

Even the artists are fed up with the big bullies in the Record Industry.
Smashing Pumpkins released Machina-II on the Internet as a final F-U to Virgin music. Trent Reznor/Nine Inch Nails did the same thing recently with Year Zero album.

oh and BTW, even the local MAACP or MCAAP (whatever the fudge they're known as) association will go around black-mailling hifi stores to pay a license fee in order to "legitimise" the use of "copyrighted material" in their business, although the irony is that Hi-Fi shops should be commended for championing the sale and use of original discs for its "superior qualities" compared to pirated material.

The evil henchmen of the RIAA, big recording companies , quasi-legal bodies and the like, .. while legit they may be ... partake in such immoral business practices.


Like i said, all the above, are just IMO.... if anyone can give a better counter argument ... i am all ears to change my views as such.

Cheah,
Your points noted.

Let me also point out some of my remarks in this thread:

"I wish they had an advanced IPTV system where I could just rent HD stuff."

"I'm looking for a legal outlet."

Plus. some of my last post, which I have argued with many in the past years. If I buy a CD, I've already paid for the copyright. If I want to transfer it to a tape or my iPod just for my own personal pleasure, I maintain it is legal.

I understand perfectly well why the original product costs what it does, I have worked closely with both the movie and music industries for many years. The only people who will justify the prices are the people in the industry making money off it, with the exception of the artiste. I'd rather pay an artiste directly. Still, I do not have a single pirated CD, nor have I ever bought one since the format came out 25 years ago.

As for the movie angle, let he who has not sinned cast the first stone. If you have not bought a single pirated CD, DVD or VCD in your life, good for you. We applaud your honesty. On the lower moral ground here, we were just discussing our fallible and corruptible nature among ourselves here. We're men, after all ...

As for the hi-fi products you mentioned, they're all overpriced, in my opinion. But they're status symbols, and gullible folks with the money are often looking for some status.

I'm all for paying for original stuff ... and when HD movies can be legally rented here, my money's going there.

Mugen, as usual, has a deeper and more technical dissertation on this ...

igmcheah, I think you put too much faith into what you THINK you know and what you THINK we don't know. Whatever I have said, I am relating the realities of the whole situation. As I have clearly said above, I am NOT promoting the purchase of pirated stuff. I even encourage buying the original when it is appropriate to do so. But very unfortunately, I am also a rather realistic person and prone to talking about the realities of life. And I don't really hold back my punches when it comes to topics where I know my stuff.

As for the comment that stuff like Krell, etc are overpriced, that's the place where I can see what is it you don't know. Actually, do you know where the bulk of the cost in a high end amp like Krell in Malaysia goes to ?

Igmcheah,

Do you know the original ( inferior sound quality of made in Malaysia ) cds/dvds and ( mostly HK recorded ) blu ray discs are very much overpriced in Malaysia as compared to the price of (much better recording quality) cds/dvds and blu ray discs in US, by the living standard?
The price of a cd/dvd and blu ray disc in US are "Only" $10+ and $20+ respectively, but we need to spend a damn $40+ and $130+ respectively for the "made in Malaysia" cd/dvd and "made in HK" blu ray disc.
I had been "cheated" more than 10 times buying " original " Japanese DVDs in Speedy with the fake and very terrible quality " Dolby Digital" sound!!! Were these terrible quality original dvds called "Original"? ..... I'm very sure these will also annoy you if you were me?
Some of the good quality pirated dvds sound quality is much better than the so-called Original dvds, I really feel I'm a fool to spend more to buy those mentioned original dvds.
And for the local original cds....made in Malaysia cds.....I would rather throw my money to the sea than buying these very high sound distortion cds. BTW I have been buying all my original cds from ebay, Amazon or HMV since 10 years ago.
Therefore Bassraptor and WongKN have their "reasonable" reasons which I do agree. And lastly, the moderator is also a human being, you know what I mean.

Not to mention some original DVDs in Speedy are censored too apart from apalling picture and sound quality. I have stopped buying them since 7 or 8 years ago. Only those fully-imported DVDs from the States are of good quality, and so is the price tag as well. Hughesths, I can understand your experience and am more or less in the same shoes as yourself.

Recently the domestic trade and consumer ministry proposed to penalise buyers of pirated DVDs instead of nabbing the sellers. This was in the headlines just recently. Some folks have even voiced their resentment towards the move and openly suggested that most people are actually buying pirated DVDs. For those who may have missed this news, below is the link.


Public outrage mounts over plan to nab pirated DVD buyers
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2010/10/13/nation/7215576&sec=nation

For me, the whole thing is just a bit too ironic.

For e.g., I bought my original US-version DVD of Star Trek 3- Return of Spock for RM99.00 at OFFER (brand new was around RM120 if I remember correctly). Just a few doors at BEST DENKI, a DVD player can be had for less than RM200, around RM179. And a 'branded' one somemore (Pioneer), not Samsung or LG. Those original DVDs used to cost even more. When one can buy a 'branded' DVD player for slightly more than the price of a SINGLE original DVD, then to me, something is terribly wrong.

I can see that manufacturing cost of a DVD is not that expensive, even if I use the cost of original and not pirated DVDs to judge. For e.g., I bought my original pressed regionally (I think Singapore if not mistaken) DVD of 'A Bridge Too Far' for RM39.90 at OFFER. The same disc from U.K. sold here cost over RM110. When I was in U.K. a few years ago, I bought an earlier release of the same movie, original, for the equivalent of around RM50. (this later release has a feature I want). I can't for the life of me see how shipping cost and other auxilliary cost for a DVD can be more than RM60.

The other irony is that we here in Malaysia are supposed to be Region-3 and thus we are NOT supposed to be able to enjoy US or UK pressed DVDs. But the manufacturers of original branded DVD players, even SONY, sells their DVD players in 'region-free' or 'all-region' format. And the local shops sells original region-1 DVDs as well, some of them it seems imported by their principals. So it can be seen that the music and movie people do not really know what they want to do, seemingly the only clear thing is they want to suck the blood out of consumers.

Even Blu-Rays were clearly overpriced before this. I remember the price of an original Blu-Ray was around RM179. Then RM159. Now they are down to RM119 and some shops even give rebate (not sure if cash or in kind) at that price. They must have been making a hell of a profit at the earlier prices. Imagine I paid RM179 for my Star Trek 2 Blu-Ray, only to see its price drop to RM129 a couple of months later. EXACT same disc. EXACT same shop.

WongKN,

Perhaps Imgcheah is very much financially wealthier than us to understand our situation of our little $$ could do with the highly overpriced cds/dvds/BRs in Malaysia.
I recommend you buy blu ray in Amazon.com next time, all the blu rays are US version and much cheaper.... around USD 20-30 each inclusive shipping! even cheaper if more than 1 BR purchase and during sale period.
So, don't support local dealers.

wow ..... what a response from you all!

what hughesths just described, is the same as the "Big Mac" comparison as i gave as an example earlier. We the consumers in Malaysia that end up paying more for legit discs, only to get inferior and watered down material. So who is really screwing us consumers who want to go legit and buy legal stuff... but guess what ? Get sold inferior crap instead.
Thankfully McDonalds doesn't screw us the same way as the music industry does here in BolehScrewLand.

Another point to make that like the copyright holders and power that be in the music industry would want things to be as legal as possible, they would come off as the most immoral large corporations that bullies the consumer wherever whenever they can. And as bassraptor also pointed out, these large corporations also screw the artists themselves. My cases in point: Smashing Pumpkins & Nine Inch Nails.

Sad to say, no one to save us (not even govt legislation) except the Pirates.

I shall end this post with this song from Pirates of the Caribbeans:

Hoist the Colours
The king and his men stole the queen from her bed
And bound her in her bones.
The seas be ours and by the powers
Where we will we'll roam!

Yo, ho, all hands.
Hoist the colors high.
Heave, ho, thieves and beggars,
Never shall we die!

Yo, ho, haul together.
Hoist the colors high.
Heave, ho, thieves and beggars,
Never shall we die!

Some have died and some are alive
Others sail on the sea
With the keys to the cage and the Devil to pay
We lay to Fiddler's Green!

The bell has been raised from its watery grave
Hear its sepulchral tone.
A call to all, pay heed the squall
And turn your sail to home!

Yo, ho, haul together.
Hoist the colors high.
Heave ho, thieves and beggars,
Never shall we die!

Heheheh, you are more accurate than you think. I once checked the option of importing a Krell from Singapore since at that time I was attending several training in Singapore. But working at the worse case basis, I checked about paying full tax, not those under-table type. Found out that customs imposes tax on item cost PLUS shipping. Then I found out that courier charges according to weight or volume (size) whichever is HIGHER in cost. A Krell monobloc can weight upwards of 150lb each, around 70kg. So with crates and everything, we are looking at almost 200kg shipping weight for a pair of Krell monoblocs. Apparently even with cheaper commercial charges, it is still extremely hefty. So now our friendly customs goes and add this cost + clearing cost to the cost of the amp and then levies that 30% tax on it. Of course the actual cost of the amp to the dealer is not the price we would expect to pay. So I found out that if I am to pay full tax with proper customs paperwork, etc, to import a Krell amp from Singapore myself, using courier, it is more expensive than buying it from Audio Image (the authorised dealer at that time).

hughesths wrote:WongKN,

Perhaps Imgcheah is very much financially wealthier than us to understand our situation of our little $$ could do with the highly overpriced cds/dvds/BRs in Malaysia.
I recommend you buy blu ray in Amazon.com next time, all the blu rays are US version and much cheaper.... around USD 20-30 each inclusive shipping! even cheaper if more than 1 BR purchase and during sale period.
So, don't support local dealers.

Have you ever had the discs stopped by customs on issues of censorship and what-not ? That to me was always the biggest issue with buying original Blu-Rays from overseas.

Yes, if possible I would still prefer to buy original.

WongKN wrote:

hughesths wrote:WongKN,

Perhaps Imgcheah is very much financially wealthier than us to understand our situation of our little $$ could do with the highly overpriced cds/dvds/BRs in Malaysia.
I recommend you buy blu ray in Amazon.com next time, all the blu rays are US version and much cheaper.... around USD 20-30 each inclusive shipping! even cheaper if more than 1 BR purchase and during sale period.
So, don't support local dealers.

Have you ever had the discs stopped by customs on issues of censorship and what-not ? That to me was always the biggest issue with buying original Blu-Rays from overseas.

Yes, if possible I would still prefer to buy original.

The customes has never stopped the discs I bought from Amazon....but they did open to check and reseal the packet before being delivered to me.

Some years ago, I went to Japan on a Panasonic assignment. After I came back, they sent me a CD with photos of the trip there. One bloody CD. Can you believe some moron at customs slapped a 30% duty on it, and those idiots at Fedex also paid up? If I hadn't been able to claim from company and if it hadn't been the thought of insulting my hosts, I would have told customs to keep it!

Now, customs is "kinder" depending on the country of origin thanks to AFTA & Aussie&NZ+AFTA, China+AFTA, Japan+AFTA bilaterals.

Only stuff coming from Europe (German, French, UK brands kena), USA (all american brands kena) & Africa (but no one gives a shit about this one) are subjected to high tariffs.

But here's an idea .... since Singapore and USA has a bilateral FTA already.... hmmmm ...... " Selamat Datang!"

Let me address the various issues here bit by bit later but for now, the main issue here is PIRACY should not be condoned, whatever reasons one might want to argue. One word says it all - it is wrong and illegal, and flaunting one's pirated assets or knowledge about the various illegal file sharing sites doesn't make one a hero. A thief is a thief, whether he or she steals from the rich and greedy or from the innocent victim.

Arguments about inferior quality of locally manufactured cds vs foreign made ones have been from day one until now. Can I just put a stop to this by setting up a blind test for all prejudiced here? Best person to hold this test will be WongKN or Bassraptor. I will bring a few cds and play it for you guys to listen in Wong's or Bassraptor's system and you can let all of us know which is locally made and which is the imported one. I hope it will put to rest future arguments.

Let's settle both these points first before I reply to the others, OK?

The arguements about quality is not from me. So you should go and challenge those who made that arguements instead. I am not interested. There is a reason why I want region-1 DVDs versus region-3 DVDs. And why I opt for original BR if possible versus those BR-ROMS (read my first post again).

My major gripe is why the products are so expensive. I know one of the importers of Blu-Rays (I won't say which brand) and I have talked extensively with them, initially on the thought of giving my suggestions on how to promote the adoption rate of BRs here in Malaysia. Then I was told the attitude of their principal. Basically, the approach is only on how to FORCE consumers to buy the products at WHATEVER price they CHOOSE, not to encourage us to suppor them instead of pirates.

The prices of original Blu-Ray discs have fallen a little bit which is good news but AFAIK, the importers are hampered by their principal's attitude about the whole thing. It also goes to show how much profiteering was made in the early days of the BRs, at the expense of fans and enthusiasts like us, especially the early adopters.

When one look at the effort of the hardware manufacturers in bringing new technology and features to BR players AT THE SAME TIME as bringing prices down to affordable levels (a brand new Pioneer basic BR player costs RM999, it used to be BR players costs RM5k, that's down by 80%), one needs to ask why the movie companies are not making the same effort. Even imported high quality CDs are now priced more competitively with lots of high grade reissues at good offer prices. After all, we are their customers and they need us to survive. But their attitude is simply how to screw us up. Of course the fact that some of us are movie addicts lets them hold us by the balls (luckily I am not one).

You can continue to go ahead and preach the high road. Don't worry, I will not stop you and to me, you have every right to do it. But just like how I also won't stop people teaching others how to import hifi components in themselves, by-passing the authorized dealers (though I WON'T condone attempts to teach how to CHEAT those dealers), I also won't avoid talking about piracy. I do not shove my head into the sand and pretend everything is fine with a holy attitude. Remember, I myself am fully aware of the pain of piracy because my only works on the internet have been pinched a number of times. One gets a shock when receiving an email telling me about this great review or a scoop about a special car, only to find that the original article was written by me. But the fact is piracy is here to stay, just like parallel imports are here to stay. And just like how hifi dealers (the good ones) know that they MUST take parallel importers and parallel import efforts head-on with fair pricing and good service, it is time the software manufacturers accept their responsibility for customer priority and make the PROPER effort to combat piracy FROM THEIR END as well.

Most important of all, I have been working in the I/T industry for 25 years. I do NOT appreciate being taken like an idiot, with stories of how a pirated DVD can cause a DVD player to jam, without any solid proof or physical explanation and facts to back it up, when they are all basically CD-ROMs and readers.

Haiyah, just ignore this IGM Cheah, lah ... useless fellow ... he knows what i'm talking about ...

bassraptor wrote:Haiyah, just ignore this IGM Cheah, lah ... useless fellow ... he knows what i'm talking about ...

WongKN wrote:
Most important of all, I have been working in the I/T industry for 25 years. I do NOT appreciate being taken like an idiot, with stories of how a pirated DVD can cause a DVD player to jam, without any solid proof or physical explanation and facts to back it up, when they are all basically CD-ROMs and readers.

I used to have a Sony DVD player and played nothing but original DVDs and original music CDs... then one day , it Jammed on me !! I think i should now blame that playing original discs spoilt my player !!!!!

bassraptor wrote:Haiyah, just ignore this IGM Cheah, lah ... useless fellow ... he knows what i'm talking about ...

Huh ?? You mean this IGM fellow is 'Kar Kih Nang' (own people or geng kita) ka ?. Ars So Ne. That changes A LOT of things now. Since he's Kar Kih Nang, its open season and free game lar, insults and abuses all allowed and free flowing !! As the Teoh Chew saying goes 'Kar Kih Nang, Pak Si Moh Siang Kang' (own kaki, accidentally killed also OK lar !)

Wong, I wasn't referring to you about the quality issue. It was addressed to those who argued about the quality difference between cds made in Malaysia vs imported ones. I think this blind test should be done but it looks like no one is going to take up the offer lest he or she has to bite the bullet or dirt!

I will let you know why you have to pay so much for some of the imported stuffs. I don't know who is the importer who told you that it is "the attitude of the principal". Unless one is the licensed distributor, other bona fide ones will buy from normal dealers overseas. Obviously they will be charged the wholesale price plus a small margin. Add the freight and Malaysian custom duties plus the profit margin of the importer, and finally the retail margin, you will now understand why you pay such a high price. Buying from the internet will save you the importer and retail margin and the Malaysian custom duties (if you are lucky). What you are paying is actually the retail price of product in the country of the internet company. If it is Amazon US, the price there is actually the retail price of the product sold in the US. Internet companies can afford to sometimes price their products marginally lower as they don't have the high retail cost. Just to give everyone an idea, the former Power Station located on the 4th Floor of KLCC then (I think about five years back) had to pay a monthly rental fee of rm48k! I heard that Tower Records on the ground floor of KLCC used to pay rm125k before it was supposedly increased to nearly rm200k per month. On top of this, they had to renovate their premise on their own expenses every three years contractually. If one have to blame, it is the ever increasing high rents and imposing Government policies.

Bassraptor, you are a chicken for trying to run away from the blind test. I shall call you Bassclucker now!

Mr IGM: Since I never implied anything whatsoever about quality, I don't see any reason for being dragged into this so-called blind listening test. As I've told you many times before, stop talking rooster!

You just want to come to my house and swipe some LPs and CDs, lah, I know ...

As for others, don't take offense. Mr IGM is a big-hearted guy who's a bit bored ...

Your explanation glosses over a few things. Let me re-word them with some numbers thrown in. From Amazon.com, I can see that the prices of a Blu-Ray tends to hover around USD25. Let's say I add USD10 to the shipping. That is USD35 or around RM108. What was the price Blu-Ray used to sell at ? RM179 I remember. It was only recently that it came down to 159, then just only 129 or 119. In addition, several points relates here.

1. It is not that I have never bought anything from overseas before. USD10 shipping for a Blu-Ray is way too high. I pay slightly more for shipping for an LP which is a lot larger. Plus I am paying consumer rates and for a single item. For bulk shipping and at pre-agreed commercial rates, shipping costs can be a lot lower. Let's not beat around the bush. Any dealer or importer worth their salt has a good commercial arrangement for prompt and economical shipping+clearing. I know for a fact. But I decided to use USD10 or RM31 just so you can't accuse me of using an unrealistic shipping cost.

2. USD25 for the Blu-Ray includes the royalty, cost of the Blur-Ray, and cost of operations for Amazon.com which is to US standard of living, PLUS mark-up/profit. Again I have been in the I/T industry for 25 years and I know that an eBusiness like Amazon has an equal or perhaps HIGHER operating cost than a single retail shop. I know for a fact that US pay scales are higher and Amazon also incurs cost for running their server - hardware, software, operating cost (rental of computer center, rental of iperating office, electricity, etc), plus manpower. It's not as if running an e-Business is totally free. It can in fact be very expensive indeed. For e.g. you think it is cheap to sign up with Verisign ?

3. You are saying the dealers are parallel importers ? I know for a fact that the importer I talked to is taking from the principal (again, I won't say which principal). And do they pay the price you see on the internet ? HAH, what do everybody think ?

4. The only concession I will give to you is the cost of import tax. I don't know the tax rate but I think bassclucker should ?

5. Arguing that Tower Records pay whatever exhorbitant rentals at whatever fancy shopping mall, to justify them overpricing their items DO NOT WORK WITH ME. It would the same arguement as some hifi chain store taking an agency forcibly from a smaller shop and then selling at 80% higher price and then justifying it by saying they have higher operating cost. CAN IT BE JUSTIFIABLE ? DO I CARE ? WHO DO YOU THINK I WOULD SUPPORT ?

BTW, don't be too confident about the quality of so-called pirated DVDs vs original DVDs. You are so quick to forward the challenge. What are the stakes, on BOTH sides ? This is for DVDs, not Blu-Rays and not CDs (I don't buy pirated CDs, I actually think they are quite OK priced).

bassraptor wrote:Mr IGM: Since I never implied anything whatsoever about quality, I don't see any reason for being dragged into this so-called blind listening test. As I've told you many times before, stop talking rooster!

You just want to come to my house and swipe some LPs and CDs, lah, I know ...

As for others, don't take offense. Mr IGM is a big-hearted guy who's a bit bored ...

Ah, you mean another initial for him is SS, aka Shit Stirer ?

Dear Igmcheah,

Please do some Audiometric testing in hospital, TO FIND OUT WHETHER YOUR HEARING IS STILL ABLE TO DETECT TREBLE & BASS and attend some intensive course of How To Correctly Listen & Differentiate The Differences ,TO IMPROVE YOUR LISTENING SKILL before you talk about conducting Blind Test, otherwise you will be humiliated by Yourself during the blind test.

Aiyah, most malaysia made products are low qualities contain only artificial flavouring, sugar, low or sometimes ban material(us/europe) . Eg, milo, milk, some infant formula, chocolate, biscuit, butter cookies,kit-kat, etc,etc,etc,etc, plumbing, proton spare parts, etc,etc, panadol,cough syrup, etc,etc. but what to do, those are only we can afford.
You guy next time you purchase thing like panadol, abbot grow milk powder,
keljedsen butter cookies, there is print 'for malaysia only'.
Really kek sim, we work like f**k, but kena tax left right and ctr from the gov, somemore not enough, kena tekan by all this unreasonable businessman.
Imagine toilet roll branded one kleenex but made in malaysia, 2 roll price at about RM33 but during promo only about RM25 in hypermart, a diff of RM8 that about 33% of the rm25. This just toilet roll we are talking about and same goes to baby diapers. (what to do young dad like me).
So you see even hypermart is ripping us.
Sorry for out of context but the morale is still the same.

BTW, anybody wanna do any blind-test of localCD vs imported CD , i will take that challenge anytime anyday ...

T**ny@s**g , if can hear the difference then how ?what is the wager ? the loser will reimburse me for all the money i wasted in buying the local crap CDs of those locally pressed Linkin Park, Offspring and Nirvana CDs that i had to buy all over (and pay the music label 2x for the same rights for the same damn album) ?

if "Made in MalasSheah" CD is so good ... how come companies like INTER-GLOBAL-Whatwazzit need to go import exotic presses of such "Audiophile CDs". If people cannot hear the diff between MP3 vs CD or vinyl ... why INTER-GLOBAL-whachamacallit still has a business bringing in "audiophile" software???

Hypocrisy. Pure Hypocrisy !

I guess not .... so whatever dude ..... PirateBay, here i come.
Greetz to Demonoid, mininova, meganova, ISOhunt, BTjunkie, VerTor and the rest!

Revolution! .... Fight the Power!

hughesths wrote:
Please do some Audiometric testing in hospital, TO FIND OUT WHETHER YOUR HEARING IS STILL ABLE TO DETECT TREBLE & BASS and attend some intensive course of How To Correctly Listen & Differentiate The Differences ,TO IMPROVE YOUR LISTENING SKILL before you talk about conducting Blind Test, otherwise you will be humiliated by Yourself during the blind test.

WongKN wrote:
1. It is not that I have never bought anything from overseas before. USD10 shipping for a Blu-Ray is way too high. I pay slightly more for shipping for an LP which is a lot larger. Plus I am paying consumer rates and for a single item. For bulk shipping and at pre-agreed commercial rates, shipping costs can be a lot lower. Let's not beat around the bush. Any dealer or importer worth their salt has a good commercial arrangement for prompt and economical shipping+clearing. I know for a fact. But I decided to use USD10 or RM31 just so you can't accuse me of using an unrealistic shipping cost.

Perhaps someone from the Music selling business here can fess'up and REVEAL what kind of margins they really MAKE in selling those legit DVDs , Blu-Rays and CDs here... anybody ?

WongKN wrote:
2. USD25 for the Blu-Ray includes the royalty, cost of the Blur-Ray, and cost of operations for Amazon.com which is to US standard of living, PLUS mark-up/profit. Again I have been in the I/T industry for 25 years and I know that an eBusiness like Amazon has an equal or perhaps HIGHER operating cost than a single retail shop. I know for a fact that US pay scales are higher and Amazon also incurs cost for running their server - hardware, software, operating cost (rental of computer center, rental of iperating office, electricity, etc), plus manpower. It's not as if running an e-Business is totally free. It can in fact be very expensive indeed. For e.g. you think it is cheap to sign up with Verisign ?

Back to the Big-Mac example again .... we (in poor 3rd world countries) are getting stiffed by the Music labels and record companies all the time.

WongKN wrote:
3. You are saying the dealers are parallel importers ? I know for a fact that the importer I talked to is taking from the principal (again, I won't say which principal). And do they pay the price you see on the internet ? HAH, what do everybody think ?

Hmmm.... actually, companies like Around the world Music & Inter-Global-whatwazzit could be thought of Parallel Importers themselves ? Did they go and TALK to the copyright holders and secure the distribution rights to sell what they sell here locally ? ... I could be wrong here, but food for thought !

WongKN wrote:
4. The only concession I will give to you is the cost of import tax. I don't know the tax rate but I think bassclucker should ?

The MY tax rate could be Cluck-Cluck-Cluuuuuck %

WongKN wrote:
5. Arguing that Tower Records pay whatever exhorbitant rentals at whatever fancy shopping mall, to justify them overpricing their items DO NOT WORK WITH ME. It would the same arguement as some hifi chain store taking an agency forcibly from a smaller shop and then selling at 80% higher price and then justifying it by saying they have higher operating cost. CAN IT BE JUSTIFIABLE ? DO I CARE ? WHO DO YOU THINK I WOULD SUPPORT ?

Exactly, Why should the consumer be made to PAY for Tower record's stupidity of high rental costs and high business operations. If they "Chuup-Luup" .. they deserve it, purely out of their own stupidity. Heck, maybe it was just a front for some other intent... Anyone also remembers "Salem-Powerstation" ? anybody ?

WongKN wrote:
BTW, don't be too confident about the quality of so-called pirated DVDs vs original DVDs. You are so quick to forward the challenge. What are the stakes, on BOTH sides ? This is for DVDs, not Blu-Rays and not CDs (I don't buy pirated CDs, I actually think they are quite OK priced).

Based on personal experience , Pirate DVDs got a nice selection of subtitles, choice of Dolby Digital, DTS , or PCM sound channels, oh, don't forget those bonus features too! . Local "legit" DVDs, may or may not have a choice of subtitles, PCM only soundtrack, and missing most "extra features".

Enough forumming .... i gotta fire up me uTorrent client, make sure the firewall is set correctly, port forwarding check, bandwidth ratio set, seeders check, and.... Oh Hello! What have we here? Good evening .torrent !

iu in

wah, took me awhile to decipher that. more complex than davinci's...

hughesths wrote:Dear Igmcheah,

Please do some Audiometric testing in hospital, TO FIND OUT WHETHER YOUR HEARING IS STILL ABLE TO DETECT TREBLE & BASS and attend some intensive course of How To Correctly Listen & Differentiate The Differences ,TO IMPROVE YOUR LISTENING SKILL before you talk about conducting Blind Test, otherwise you will be humiliated by Yourself during the blind test.

Thank you. Got a name and address? You visited one before?