Calling Owners Of Harbeth Speakers

Dear All Harbeth Owner,

I'm planning to buy c7es3 but haven't decided to match with which amp and cdp. My budget is below 7k for both item, pls recommend the ideal match for the speakers and where to buy.
Thanks for reading.

I believe that C7ES3 is 7XXX - so your budget may not be sufficient.

However - C7 is a fantastic speakers and would sing beautifully even if you are using a cheap amplifier.

I brought my C7 a few months ago - and had consider getting a replacement for my Denon AVR. But the speaker change has already made a night and day difference. So as times goes by I more or less put the idea of upgrading my AVR to rest.

My suggestion is to get the C7 first and worry about the rest later.

If anything at all - try to improve your room acoustics first. It will have a much more impact to the sound than the amplifier. My living room is quite terrible in terms of room acoustics - and there is not much I could do about it because of wife factor. That is another reason the put me off in getting a new amplifier. But that is no stopping for me enjoying my music.

Dear CNyee,
Thanks for reading my post, actually the 7k budget is for the AMP n CDP. Total budget is 14K. Other than quad which combination of AMP n CDP u would suggest.
Thanks.

Hi Grantarino,

Check this out:

http://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/forumdisplay.php?10-Electronics-sources-stands-cables-etc

Most information are not relevant for Malaysia - but the Harbeth forum contains a wealth of information concerning everything about sound reproduction.

My limited experience is that the speakers and room acoustics are the most important. Amplifier and sources are way down in priority. I would say most people won't be able to ABX a RM2,000 amplifier from a RM15,000 amplifier.

Enjoy your Harbeth! And more importantly - enjoy your music!

CN Yee wrote: I would say most people won't be able to ABX a RM2,000 amplifier from a RM15,000 amplifier.

So... would YOU yourself be in the "most people" category and hence cannot hear the diff between a NAD 3020i vs. a Jeff Rowland Concentra (for example,) or would you think yourself as being in the minority that otherwise could ?


BTW, might you happen to personally own some RM15K amp and then decided that you couldn't hear the diff from a RM2K amp and so decided to sell-off or otherwise dispose off the RM15K amp and settle on a RM2K amp instead? I would guess not ... but oh please, do prove me otherwise here. Would be most glad if u could could.

Yee,
If u cant tell the diffrence between a 2k and a 15k amp then my advice to u is to buy a 2k amp. In hi fi every chain is inportant. Harbeth speakers may not be fussy but the demand the highest quality of amplification u can afford. Remember...shit in .....dont expect gold out.

mugenfoo, I definitely belong to the majority. For me, the emotional content, the effects in the brain-mind, the spiritual contents, the transcendental qualities (the rare few) of music are much more important to me than mere sound quality. I enjoyed music as a child listening to AM radio on a handheld radio - not any less than my current Harbeth C7ES3. For that I would never consider myself an audiophile.

Even right now - I am listening to headphone (at work), a small computer speaker (Audioengine a2) at my work desk, and my Harbeth - in that order in terms of the time I spend on each. That is not the order of my preferences but a reflection on the time I spent on the respective environment.

Yes - sound quality should be as good as it can be - within reasonable budget limit. Its takes a great deal of time and efforts for me to hunt down the Harbeth, the Audioengine desktop speakers, and the USB DAC and headphone.

I believe that the Audiophile industry is driving itself to distinction by promoting a hype of endless upgrades of exorbitantly priced equipments - rather than promoting music enjoyment with reasonably priced equipment.

I have not seen any blind test that conclusively demonstrates that people can reliably tell the differences between different brand of amplifiers yet. But there are quite a few that demonstrates the contrary. For example:
http://www.hometheaterfocus.com/receivers/amplifier-sound-quality.aspx

CN Yee wrote:mugenfoo, I definitely belong to the majority. For me, the emotional content, the effects in the brain-mind, the spiritual contents, the transcendental qualities (the rare few) of music are much more important to me than mere sound quality. I enjoyed music as a child listening to AM radio on a handheld radio - not any less than my current Harbeth C7ES3. For that I would never consider myself an audiophile.

CNYee, ok good that you clarified your position on the above... so allow me to retort.

Just because YOU yourself cannot hear the diff between a RM15K amp vs. a RM2K amp, doesn't qualify that "most people" can't either.

Applying one's own audio handicap (congenital or otherwise) or any related inabilites to a greater majority merely exposes one's own mis-construed prejudices and self-righteous ideas of what equipments and their critical role as used for audio reproduction should or should not be.

Furthermore, it is the most glaring form of hypocrisy reaching high-heaven that one should continue to draw references upon your Harbeths while continuing to deny the importance of quality ancillaries required for audio reproduction.

CNyee, my offer still stands, will trade any brand new EDIFIER speaker sytem model of your choice for your pair of current Harbeths. Those Edifiers will definitely help you improve on the "wife-factor" as well. So what say you? Since you have mentioned before that you won't be able to hear the differences anyway. Why keep to such bulky Harbeths when the same job could also be realised with a pair of more spouse-friendly Edifier speakers ? After all, the sound output is still the same to you right ?

Hi CNYee, Like u I have always advocate good room acoustics, but I reckoned it's one area most audiophiles will have to try very hard at it, be it the reason of WAF, or haven't accumulated enough knowhow on the subject to start the room treatment project, or rather leave it to your friendly hifi dealer to do the job of getting your room to sound 'nice' and 'friendly' to your music listening and/or enjoyment of music.


One have to start somewhere in time, if not forever it will be just a dream. I have done mine, all by myself(200 manhours if u have to know). Here it's...........The KL Audio Doctor had a close look of my room............


http://klaudiodoctor.blogspot.com/2010/02/room-acoustics-part-4.html

Uncle Vic, your room treatment is .... simply extraordinary. I have to say you are quite a crazy fella. I noticed the ceiling at the front is lower than the ceiling at the back. Apart from a recording studio - that is the first time that I see a private home having that type of treatment!

About the bass boom - I read that the absorption materials has to be at least 1/3 the wavelength of the sound. For 30hz the wavelength would be about 1m, and the padding has to be 30cm. Do you have any solution for that?

It took me a long time to find out about fluttering and discern the reflections in the room. I have to say, wife factor aside, room treatment is simply ... difficult.

CN Yee wrote:
About the bass boom - I read that the absorption materials has to be at least 1/3 the wavelength of the sound. For 30hz the wavelength would be about 1m, and the padding has to be 30cm. Do you have any solution for that?

Formula for wave propagation.
V = F x L

V = speed of sound in metres per second,
F = frequency in Hertz
L = wavelength in Metres.

V at typical room temp (26 degrees Celcius) is approx 347metres per second.

THEREFORE, L = 347 (ms^-1) divide by 30 (Hz) = 11.57 METRES. (not 1 metre).

CNyee, maybe you meant to type "300Hz" instead .... ?


And that 1/3 wavelength thing is NOT A GOOD GENERALISATION. It also depends on what is the wadding/absorbtion material used, physical dimensions of the acoustic panel, etc etc.

When it comes down to very low boomy boom boom bass, you'll need something called "Helmhotz Resonators/Traps" to effectively absorb low freqs.

Enough of half-hacks and silly Internet HALF-TRUTHS ...
You can read all about it & while you're at it, go get the other facts right as well:
Acoustic Absorbers and Diffusers, 2nd Edition.
Trevor J. Cox & Peter D'Antonio
ISBN 978-0-415-47174-9

Available from Amazon.com, MPH, Kinokuniya @ KLCC, etc etc.


... but just double check & make sure your ears can hear the diffs of all these room stuffs ya .... ?

Hi CNYee, if room treatments are simply difficult because of wife's approval, then that's one hurdle that's next to impossible to overcome, la! Maybe u want to try Franck's "acoustic cups" instead. Doesn't occupy much space but will cost u a lot of $$$$$(5 digits)!


I've come across many not unlike u have approval problem with room acoustic treatments, as the missus looks at it as 'internal deco' instead which are downright 'offensive'! I have my room done since 3 years ago, however those who knew about it, didn't want to have a listen, lest they get upset because they can't get something like that into their home! "It's a why bother if I can't have it"!


One Of my friend came, he decided to do the room treatment with mixture of wood and other material, but he has a edge over mine: he has it remote controlled and motoried changeable like the Petronas Philahoarmonik Hall!!!! Wah Liao!!!!

The Reason why modern auditoriums have motorised control of their acoustic panels is to tune the hall as the attendance is variable. An empty hall's acoustic requirement is not the same as those of a full house. The panels are usually controled by computers according to the attendance of the show. Human actually absorb and affect the reverbs in the hall.

To have a motorised remote control panels in a hifi room in domestic environment is laughable. You only tune yr room once and you do not take into account human numbers as they do not vary much.

VS126 wrote:
To have a motorised remote control panels in a hifi room in domestic environment is laughable. You only tune yr room once and you do not take into account human numbers as they do not vary much.

Mebbe some people lazy to the max leh ?

If they could have a remote controlled motorized toilet bowl that will come to them at the press of a click ,they'd do it as well.

Ya lor!!! It's how much sweat u want to put into the works, or how much $$$ u want to spend!!! Hah, hah, hah!!! remote controlled toilet bowls? Hah, hah, hah!!!


On another note, actually, however small the adjustments to the acoustic treatments to the room, there is a different, whether real or imagined!

no need to tell me, many years back , i already sunk in a couple of $$$$ for these things: CornerTunes, EchoTunes, floor standing RoomTunes & that locally made brand "ATT" Tube traps.

Until I discovered IKEA and found out that ALOT of their home furnishing stuff & even those cheap-ass furnitures make excellent acoustic treatment materials. And best of all, cheap-cheap-good-good! Now imagine sticking a LACK tabletop on the wall (breaks up echo slaps and other midrange problems), and then using its 4 legs as standing wave disruptors or even as corner skirting. And don't forget the cheap rugs that can be nailed to a wall or ceiling..... The possibilities are endless.

This thread has been dead for awhile....so please allow me to ask some questions about harbeth speakers.

Scrolling along the pages, it seems that users of these speakers have very good experience with them. There seems to be a consensus that they are easily driven by just about any amp.

1. Are these speakers really that un-fussed?

My preference for music is very wide and for some genres, the epos M5s do not do it for me.

2. Are there any other speakers that cross the music genre spectrum as well as harbeth?

I am considering HL-P3s, since they are relatively inexpensive (~2.5k).

3. Which other speakers offer the kind of value harbeth does?

Thanks in advance.

Hi dheensay,

Generally they mate well with most amplifiers and therefore i'd say un-fussed. However they may not sound their best and some effort is required to match unless you have cotton wool in your ears then any amp even a VCR/HT amp will do .

I prefer the current C7 of the lot. The HL-P3s may need a bit more power but I am sure someone in a better position would be able to comment.

The Harbeths arent the most exciting of speakers for all genres. Yes they do sound good with vocals, classicals, make pleasant music & you can listen to all day but they do have their shortcomings.

Some may argue that they can play rock etc and yes they do with the correct equipment but if you are a die hard rock fan I think you would notice where they fall short.

Cant say I have heard much of other speakers but you may like to check out the ProAcs and PMc's as well.

Hi Dheensay,

Speakers are a very personal thing as the sound varies substantially with models from respective manufacturers. Hence it is best if you can listen to all to determine which one suits your listening preference best.

Generally Harbeth speakers are unfussy with amplifiers -- easy to drive and will sound good with dirt cheap amplifiers(not to say it won't sound better with superior amps). This applies to all current range of Harbeth speakers, but similarly to Sanguine I am not too sure if the older HL-P3s are an easy load. From what I gather the current P3ESRs are easier to drive compared to P3ES2s.

Frankly speaking there aren't many monitors I've listened to that sound close to the Harbeth, in fact none of them. The various iterations of the LS3/5as may have some resemblance to the Harbeth but will still sound different. From what I gather from the forums Spendors may sound quite close to the Harbeth.

I've listened and owned Proacs and PMCs. Diffferent sound from the Harbeth. Proacs are leaner, detailed and possess superb imaging while PMCs are kind of neutral and requires quite a bit of power to come alive.

Thanks for the response. Can someone point me in the right direction via PM on where to audition the current Harbeth line?

Which is the base model : P3 or Compact 7 ?

Tropical Audio

Beside all the audiophile terms that are useful to put on Harbeth, there is another term that many other is lacking. Muiscal communication to the listener.

P3 is good over vintage LS3/5a. If P3 vs C7, then the C7 is much more effortless, full body open and the p3 can sound a bit closed in. May I suggest you try to get a used pair of 1st generation (square post) C7 (abt rm3k range) if your room is allow for its size. Listen to it and feel your music with your heart and the next step is buy more albums to enjoy your muiscs.

Cheers

Mahler 9 wrote:
P3 is good over vintage LS3/5a.

Mind to elaborate? Thanks.

Hello all,
Can someone help Clarify the difference between HL-5 and SHL-5?

I think the difference by word will be on extra 'S' - SuperTweeter ! Correct me if I am wrong . sifu out there

Hi

I am looking to buy a used pair of Compact 7 ES3. I am from India and would be visiting Malysia next year in April. Would be grateful if you could keep me posted in case there is any Compact 7 for sale. My email ID is panditr@yahoo.com .... I am so looking forward to owning one but cannot afford a new pair.....

Warm regards and hope to join the Harbeth owners club.
Rahul Pandit

HI all sifu here
wish to know what is the different on the HL-P3 and the current model ?
why many user selling away the HL-p3 in the used market ? at the prices Rm 2k + is that worth ti buy ?

Hi 77,
SEAS woofer (and tweeter) have been used in the P3, P3ES and P3ES2.
Current p3esr is using radial driver.

Old model from p3 to es2 (only the tweeter gril coated with golden color for es versions) was improved slightly (to my ear of cause) in bass out put and upper mid to lower high transaction. No serious differnet between them. Old p3 price was good 10 yrs ago ard RM1k. Now the price is serious too high for used p3.

The new p3esr is totally differnt sounding speaker and many level up from all the 3 versions old p3. Best musical sounding with natural sound in the market now. Honest engineering without any BS. If you can wait, just keep your eye on used p3esr is much more value for money.

For more info, you can read here. Hope this can help. Cheers

http://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/showthread.php?495-New-Harbeth-P3ESR&p=4363#post4363

http://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/showthread.php?495-New-Harbeth-P3ESR