Re: Linn - discussion thread

[cmboy]

Unfortunately our best quality veneer plywoods are exported out leaving crap behind. Malaysia isn't in the same track whereas Japan keep the best stuff for their home market consumption. But then possibly over 90% of their produce are every bit as good to high expectation.

Anyway, I do have some confidence that our local ply is actually based on wood thats far better than EU sourced wood. We have tropical wood, just that the ply in circulation isn't manufactured to fantastic standards. I could dare say the west have better technology and materials for this kind of manufacture, thus people will tend to think that their stuff is better than ours anytime. A long time ago I worked in a knock down furniture industry factory set up by Americans and learnt hellava lot from the sawmill to various mills to the finished product, including the highest quality finishing proceedures. This knowledge gained have paid off time and again.

[Rajacatur]

Am the proud owner of a 1980s Linn Sondek. Recently fitted with the cirkus upgrade and power supply is the Mose/Hercules. Unit has had the motor changed to the new motor and springs and rubber grommets replaced. Am looking at the next upgrade and considering the Naim Armegeddon. What say you dear forumers? Is this the way to go or should i stay true to the Linn Path and look at Lingo 2 (expencheap!)? Your comments and suggestions appreciated.

[zulkifar]

Rajacatur,
Without having the experience of a direct comparison, I cannot comment on the Mose/Hercules set-up. However, between the Lingo and Armageddon, it's a matter of personal preference. I suspect the same can be expected from the Hercules because the difference is in the design of the power supply. The AC motor remains. If you have a set-up rig for the LP12 and you can DIY, why not carry out a direct comparison between the 3. Then you will know for certain which suits you best in your own environment.

[scubanasa]

If I am not mistaken & based from the other forum, Armageddon is best for Naim's tonearm e.g Aro, while Lingo is for Linn's tonearm e.g. Akito etc.. Btw, Aro has been discontinued.. I'd rather go for Lingo & purchase/maintenance direct from the Linn's dealer here.

[cmboy]

IMHO, if you already have Hercules, the Armageddon is technically, A DOWNGRADE.

It was a radical development to improve the spartan Basic PSU (similar to whats found in lots of budget Rega TT) implemented in pre-Valhalla LP12. The Basic or Armageddon PSU isn't as frequency stable compared to the Valhalla or Hercules circuitry which is based on frequency oscillator and QUARTZ LOCKED circuitry. Lingo is an excellent upgrade if you can acquire it.

[zulkifar]

In the transition to Aro, my Ittok had both the Lingo and Armageddon. In my opinion the Geddon provided better dynamics with the Ittok. Its sound quality simply belies its simplicity. May be in terms of detail, the Lingo had a slight advantage so as I said, it’s really a matter of preference, and not to mention whatever else within the combination. However, the quantum leap is going DC and that's the general consensus.

[cmboy]

IMHO and firm view, the Geddon stands as a radical and very dated improvement for existing phase shift psu found in pre Valhalla LP12. Technically its useable for intent and purpose but there isn't any element of precision in its design. Its still simple circuitry that serve as an isolation and step down transformer to the motor. The Geddon still rely on stable 50hz to have the speed right. Any shift in mains supply will make the speed vary. Motor vibration is still high and the effect is transmitted back to the cartridge and people would interpret this as better dynamics.
The Lingo is a far superior PSU superceding and improving where the Valhalla design left off. It spins up to speed for 20 seconds, then switches down to one quarter its output voltage allowing the platter to almost free spin on its own. The effect is like negligible motor vibration to the platter offering lower noise floor. Lingo is expensive because of a more elaborate and optimized design for the LP12.
Linn have come up with their very expensive Radikal DC motor upgrage kit. The motor used here was after a very careful selection (referring to a mention by David Williamson from Linn) and its housed in a custom and very well damped cylinder sitting in place of the old AC synchronous motor. The housing damping layer is sourced from a NASA vendor. Space age material used here?. With all these, its of course the price is passed to you.
Not any old DC motor can be good for belt drive TT's. I've seen some which are very noisy (some Matsushita motors seen) but considering some TT manufacturers have worked around this by housing and damping it very heavily, then isolate it entirely from the table. Why DC is a logical choice? Its because the PSU and control circuitry is far easier, cheaper to implement. There's no need for AC phase shift, frequency oscillators and high voltage amplifiers. In actual fact, the Valhalla is a risky and hazardous design, but what to do? reasonable cost, compact size, practicality have to be achieved, and lastly its never the last word in reliability and longevity.
My 2 sen.

[zulkifar]

Obviously you have done your reading and I totally agree with you.
On paper the Geddon is a non-starter (just like valves vs transistors). However, like the thousands of Geddon users, the proof of the pudding is in the eating and for that reason they remain happy. The OP was trying to find out whether ‘upgrading’ to a Geddon makes sense and I merely related my happy experience...time for Peter Green’s Black Magic Woman
BTW, I know of only 2 current manufacturers of DC motors for the LP12 and both will take the Lingo/Geddon to the cleaners.

[cmboy]

1. Geddon can be a logical upgrade from the old basic phase shift PSU.
Geddon can be DIY manufactured to reduce the cost of importing one, save for a used one found somewhere.
There's no rocket science inside, just a 400VA tranny and some phase shift circuitry. Again, the trick in this is that it serves as an isolating transformer strictly to power the motor, thus a cleaner AC voltage applied, nothing more.
A likely 3rd party candidate is the Pro-ject Speedbox SE II, and I understand this cost in the region of RM1.2K, cheap,no?
Valhalla PCB, which is a long discontinued item could be found and buying a used one is tricky unless one can refurbish it with new parts for another lease of life. Used ones are either spoilt or due for total refurbishment.
2. The ready available Hercules II can be ordered from Ebay. Either DIY fit or get someone competent to fit this nicely. It have the convenience of 33 & 45rpm switching. Performance and reliability wise, its a re-design with better and hand selected parts, marginal performance improvement from the now obsolete Valhalla. Its fundamentally identical as the Valhalla PSU. Price is quoted on Ebay.
3. Lingo, Lingo II, Radikal. Boils down to whether owner would like to own this because its highly priced and considering Lingo can be highly sought after on the used market.
Upgrade step 1 > 2 > 3 not the reverse.
This is just the motor control department. Obviously there's more of other things to upgrade especially in older LP12 if one is looking forward to a newer performance spec. Its quite costly to upgrade from say a 1979 deck to 1990's specs. Probably the only things retained would be tonearm, top plate, platter and PSU. The rest would be replaced to latest specs.
There you have it.

[noeljs]

HI

Does anyone know who can fine tune my Linn.Please text me his name and number.

Cheers.

Noel

0133424629

[noeljs]

Hi all

Could someone recommend a Linn expert who has passion for Linn and can fine tune my 40 year old linn.

Your recommendations will be appreciated.

Thanks

Noel

0133424629

[harmain]

To say that Lingo is better than Armaggedon is nonsense. LP12 owners upgrade from Lingo to Armageddon but never the other way around. Speed can never be accurate because the spindle hole is never 100% center, the record is never 100% flat and there is stylus drag.
In the LP12 it is worse because there is belt slack, suspension movement and a loose felt mat.
The late Julian Vereker knew what he was designing and could easily use electronics if he wanted to.
If you want speed accuracy better get a Technics or Denon TT and buy a clamp.

[scubanasa]

So, where to have a free listening to LP12? Is it possible? Before I can make up my mind to get Majik LP12... or not.

[sflam]

contact perfect hifi.

[scubanasa]

Went there last month. They do not have LP12 on demo. Apart from that, when I said - how about if I use Naim Stageline... the answer... what is that stageline? No, sorry never heard of it. Funny isn't it.

Then, the answer again, everything must be Linn... the sound wont be nice if it is not Linn. & the LP12 comes with built in phonostage. Lagi pening... haha.

[cmboy]

There IS a Linn LP12 Majik on permanent demo there. Its NOT fitted with a built in phono stage. Built in phono isn't a standard issue with the Majik, unless of course its specially bundled.
The demo set is at Amcorp Mall branch, AFAIK.

[scubanasa]

Thanks cmboy... btw, the PH mentioned earlier was not at Amcorp Mall anyway. Yeah, built in phonostage is another story with more $$$.

[cmboy]

Ok, happy auditioning!

[noeljs]

Ya i found a expert tuner through the grape vine. What a find!