Power Conditioners

Mugenfoo.

Never claim to be a guru,but believe me your ego certainly will result in a verynarrow minded view.....

you do not even know me or my systems,so do not make yourself look doubly foolish......

let us keep the discussions to subject at hand or lest it might reflect badly on your (Poor) upbringings.......

Show off, Mugen .... I only have stacks of sci-fi books ... hmm, that may not be too far removed ....

tin wrote:Mugenfoo.

Never claim to be a guru,but believe me your ego certainly will result in a verynarrow minded view.....

you do not even know me or my systems,so do not make yourself look doubly foolish......

let us keep the discussions to subject at hand or lest it might reflect badly on your (Poor) upbringings.......

Nevermind about anything else... you are the one who cannot defend your so called technical ideas and then resort to getting personal. So it's really your ego to lose, not mine. You're the one straddling high and mighty there telling people to avoid marketing gimmicks and sales mumbo-jumbo, but you yourself cannot come up with any credible references, let alone any of your OWN credibility in these subject matters.

So now i feel it is a MORAL obligation to expose the fraud that you are and your silly notions of grounding and/or electricity, lest someone actually follows your BS at the risk of their own personal safety & electrical hazard.

But of course, if you want to dabble yourself, go right ahead, i'll do you a favour & nominate you for the next round of the Darwin Awards. Hopefully you won't have to get the award posthumously of course...

Who cares what system you have or don't have (unless, you need a "system" to boost up your ego as well) .. its your LACKING of any decent understanding of electricity that makes you a hazard to yourself and other forummers.

If i got to choose between being-polite or exposing some charlatan's half-baked notions of electrical systems, i'd choose the latter.



'Nuff said.

bassraptor wrote:Show off, Mugen .... I only have stacks of sci-fi books ... hmm, that may not be too far removed ....

Do join in the fun and post up your stacks of Star Trek novels !!

Hi Jo,

I bought it mainly for my AV sys which has 4700 watt total max power consumption ( which the Purepower 2000i is less powerful to supply), due to my area drastic voltage fluctuation. Previously, the Servo 15 sub often cuts in and out during low voltage condition, disturbing movies mood.
As for hifi, stand-alone CS 16 leans out overall sound; body, weight, depth and low are much reduced; quite dry for my taste. However, if combined with the Titan-Substation-400Pro-PP 2000i, fortunately it does not change much on the original sound, only slightly reduces the mentioned 4 elements which can still be solved by tweaks. So it's fine to combine usage for hifi system too.

soonthas wrote:Hi Jo,

I bought it mainly for my AV sys which has 4700 watt total max power consumption ( which the Purepower 2000i is less powerful to supply), due to my area drastic voltage fluctuation. Previously, the Servo 15 sub often cuts in and out during low voltage condition, disturbing movies mood.
As for hifi, stand-alone CS 16 leans out overall sound; body, weight, depth and low are much reduced; quite dry for my taste. However, if combined with the Titan-Substation-400Pro-PP 2000i, fortunately it does not change much on the original sound, only slightly reduces the mentioned 4 elements which can still be solved by tweaks. So it's fine to combine usage.

Just to clarify, So the Torus did not improve your system but made it slightly worse off?

Mugenfoo,

read my original post and your reply CAREFULLY.........you completely do not get it,do you .Amazing!!!!!!

I do not come here to get my ego massaged.I am here to share my experience.....something about Chinese educated people and me....we just seems to speak different language

Hi Mugen,

The Accuphase had changed much on the overall sound which I didn't really like. The Torus is more neutral, retaining 90% of both system original sound, when combined with all the mentioned conditioners. So it is more suitable for tackling my voltage fluctuation problem especially during av session. Peace of mind.

soonthas wrote: Hi Mugen,

The Accuphase had changed much on the overall sound which I didn't really like. The Torus is more neutral, retaining 90% of both system original sound, when combined with all the mentioned conditioners. So it is more suitable for tackling my voltage fluctuation problem especially during av session. Peace of mind.

Yup, sometimes its a worthy trade-off .... sacrifice abit of sound Quality, but improve safety for equipment & protect your investment...

But here's a tweak to juice up your Torus and you might just get back the stuff you lost. But its not so straightforward and not a DIY category: Get a qualified electrician to pull a dedicated line from the DB box to where your Torus is located at. You might be amazed how a good run of fresh powerlines can do for your system. You might want to go for thicker gauge wires while you're at it here. Also, if you can get hold of those IP44 style plugs, these will put to rest the debate between US-style, or UK-style 13A, UK-style 15-Amp, etc etc plugs. One 16Amp (or if higher Amp needed, 32Amp type) Industrial grade IP44 plug from the dedicated line to your Torus, and you're good to go. The Torus' massive toroidal inside will sure thank you for doing so.

tin wrote:Mugenfoo,

read my original post and your reply CAREFULLY.........you completely do not get it,do you .Amazing!!!!!!

I do not come here to get my ego massaged.I am here to share my experience.....something about Chinese educated people and me....we just seems to speak different language

If you can't answer technical queries or back up any of your nonsense with credible references, then perhaps you are the one who should stop posting crap and get your facts straight first, instead of getting personal and having your ego popped like a ripe cherry. Doesn't matter if its Chinese educated or Indian educated or African educated: Facts are facts and yours are utter crap.

Don't worry, its not to late to go back to school, or if you want to take a more convenient path, pick up a good book and start from there ,
instead of referencing to some commercial website that seems appealing to you, while dismissing some others as mumbo-jumbo or gimmick. You know the expression of a "Pot calling a kettle black"? You're an amazingly perfect fit for this right here, right now.

If I am not mistaken, the pile of books, minus the bottom two, are just for semester 1 of the first year in a electronics degree curriculum. I myself used the one in the middle by Malik (Electronic Circuits) in my elective course in basic electronics back in Uni (but my background is not electronics per se). Ah, it brings back fond memories (of the studying - and then, the girls as well !! ).

BTW, I am just commenting on the books. I love books and I love knowledge - I am a knowledge freak. But that doesn't mean I am getting involved in this thread. Though I -am- looking at this from the moderator's point of view. So far, all responses looks fair and square to me.

WongKN wrote:Ah, it brings back fond memories (of the studying - and then, the girls as well !! ).

..and the togo sessions, the jam n hop, and the ragging

....remember heli-serdang??

Mugenfoo, you have obviously misunderstood my earlier post. All I did was explain how power conditioner works! They work in 3 ways as I had explained earlier. I did not suggest anybody, let alone someone with minimal skill to meddle with any circuits or electrical equipments, as you had suggested. I can't understand where you got that idea from, you must be HALLUCINATING BIG TIME!

It is my conscious effort to minimize technical jargon in my discussion, it creates too much confusion in my opinion. I prefer to guide to proper websites or books. If it makes you clever, doing what you did, please continue to do so. I can tell you though your knowledge from whatever little you show here is kindergarten level.

It is a sad fact that in Malaysia, hifi is oftern treated like war. Dissenting views are not respected, especially by the most moronic of people. I always believe people with a little bit of knowledge are the most dangerous.

My original post is mainly to urge people to invest in a properly designed, dedicated hifi circuit. This should be where you start. A lot of virtues of power conditioners can be begetted by utilizing dedicated circuits. On the other hand, you rearely get the 'sins' associated with PLCs.

As far as I am concerned, I am happy to know things that I have mentioned here before like the concept of cable looms has been so strongly accepted now. I have helped a gew people, who know me from this forum realize their hifi dreams.

I can see that you are very enamored by Torus power conditioners. Well, I am not. It introduces too much noise. If you are using speakers that are not very sensitive you might not notice it, but the noise is Clearly measurable. Of course there is a solution to every problem, even this one....

Like I said before, if you don't know me or my systems, do not make a blind, childish attack. It has already make you look like a fool.

Ah tycham, I see it brings back memories for you as well. I was lucky and didn't receive much ragging in my freshie year. Consequently I didn't do much ragging when I was a senior as well. Uni days are fun but with foresight, I can also see how ignorant I was back then. And arrogant as well. I wonder if it's part of growing up - thinking that we know everything once we are in uni, only to be brought back down to earth when we face reality - IF - we are lucky enough that life decides to teach us a lesson of course.

OK OK, sorry. Back to the main topic of this post.

While you guy still have it...
I am very intrigued on this circuit below from Reimyo ALS777... so many chips and no giant transformer., look more like a DAC than a Power Conditioner. And some of the works look like a temporary solution, and fuse installation is way too DIY..

And there are something that look like a star arrangement... Harmonix is kind of good practitioner in the dark art~

[img][/img]

Hear ye Hear ye ....

@Tin has been EXPOSED for the FRAUD that he is .

He offers NO technical understanding or explanation to back up his smelly BS statements whatsoever... a different form of mumbo-jumbo, must be.

He has NO CREDENTIALS whatsoever and just pulls stuff from certain websites (most likely because he has paid money to buy such products while dismissing others such as Torus or whatever other brand that he doesn't have or own).

He has NO CREDIBILITY whatsoever and is unable to carry any form of factual discussion but resorts to getting personal to get his own skewed and misinformed points across.

Here's the proof:

Tin wrote:
2.low impedence result in faster flow of electricity

Here is the real moron who probably thinks that electricity would flow like water or something. And self-declares himself qualified to give 3 rules on power supply systems. This clown probably doesn't even know the real meaning of the word "Impedance".

3 cheers for @Tin ...

Tin, when you yourself can build a better product than Torus or PurePower, etc etc ... then we talk again... but until then, don't be such a rotten sport and badmouth any brand that you yourself either don't own or have never come across.

Tin wrote:I can see that you are very enamored by Torus power conditioners. Well, I am not. It introduces too much noise.

You say that Torus introduces noise ... ? Who are you kidding here ... c'mon .... No need to badmouth a product just because you don't own it. Do you even know who is the parent company of Torus and what kind of industrial equipment they manufacture for mission & life-critical systems???

Ever had a thought that maybe its your ears that introducing the "noise" instead? LMAO

now everyone can see what kind of sore loser you are, with a capital "L".

WOW, That is an impressive stack of information

Now have to go to Amazon.com. Have to play catch up.

Or never mind lah....just have to consult mugen over T/T or beer?

VS126 wrote:

WOW, That is impressive.

I always have hugh respect for yr knowledge. You always back up with specs.
Now I know where you got it from.

Now have to go to Amazon.com

Keep it up Mugen..

Thanks Vince, facts are facts and should not be subject to debate... Only opinions and ideas are open to debate. But when some clowns cannot back up their so-called "facts" or 1-2-3 principles, thats when they get exposed for the fraudsters (and this one particular sore loser to date) that they are. I am only too happy to oblige this task and provide entertainment for the rest.

I have been using a down-to-earth AVR/UPS/noise-filter setup for my set for almost a year. So far so good... fingers crossed.

Wall socket -> Belkin 4-outlet surge protector -> Right Power UPS (Power Box X10) -> Hi-fi equipment (int. amp/cdp/sub).

My main reason for this combo is that the voltage in my housing area is fairly un-stable. However, I haven't try running my set on battery... yet.

Mugenfoo(l),

Every transformer hums,every hum is noise;it is just a matter of degree....some hums louder than the other.

I have listened to countless Torus based systems in my life,I just do not think it is the best.try comparing with Silver circle audio,another transformer-based PLcs,than you might not be as enthusisstic as you are now..

I think you need more exposure,your inexperience(...and ignorance) can only be cured by 'proper ' educations.

Leave your contact with me,i will call Mr lam from audio exotics Hong Kong...There is where your education should begin;in their new dedicated listening room....after that maybe i might invite you over.

The universe is much bigger than you thought mr Mugenfoo(l).There is so much more to see than Jinjang.........

Tin(head) come come ... show us all what your "proper education" is ...

i already showed the stack of books already... lets see what u got (or don't have).

I love Jinjang , got very nice Yong Tau Fu there ... you should find some time and crawl your sorry ass out of whatever cave you're living in and see the world abit. Then you wont have to chew on Tin ore for breakfast & eat rocks for lunch. Don't talk Hong-Kong when you yourself cannot prove or show anything. Nanti someone start talking Germany, England, USA and Russia pulak but still got nothing to show for.

And don't look down in Jinjang , there is a pair of Duntech Sovereign in that area as well. But idiots like you will never come close to so much as getting a smell of it aside from your own dirt cave and douchebag system that you call "hifi".

Maybe you should crawl back in your cave and hum yourself to sleep.


Here's my contact for you to give to "Mr. Lam" or whoever you wish. Just dial 1-800-EAT-5H1T. There is a common Cantonese saying: "Using someone else's bum skin and make it your facial skin". Just in case you don't know of this.

LOL

Lucky number? Some more toll free...

musicmusic wrote:Lucky number? Some more toll free...

Ya hor! Hongkies sure love this number!

In retrospect, discussion here on power conditioners were more amiable!

bassraptor wrote:Show off, Mugen .... I only have stacks of sci-fi books ... hmm, that may not be too far removed ....

SJ,

Sci-fi books ? Sure or not ? They are sci-fi books and not 'those kind' of books ??!!

LOLOL!!! Somebody help me get back up on my chair please...

WongKN wrote:If I am not mistaken, the pile of books, minus the bottom two, are just for semester 1 of the first year in a electronics degree curriculum. I myself used the one in the middle by Malik (Electronic Circuits) in my elective course in basic electronics back in Uni (but my background is not electronics per se). Ah, it brings back fond memories (of the studying - and then, the girls as well !! ).

BTW, I am just commenting on the books. I love books and I love knowledge - I am a knowledge freak. But that doesn't mean I am getting involved in this thread. Though I -am- looking at this from the moderator's point of view. So far, all responses looks fair and square to me.

*choking on my food* Must be from La Salle.

SJ,

Sci-fi books ? Sure or not ? They are sci-fi books and not 'those kind' of books ??!! Razz

I did not see any of'those kind' of books when I was at bassraptor's comfy crib. Maybe in softcopy ver Go Green mah

LOLOL!!! Somebody help me get back up on my chair please...

Bro, I hope that Hi-Fi did not directly contribute to your weight gain *pulling bimmerman up with all my might*

Aiyah, you think SJ will put those books in the open for you to pinch ka ? Years of collection you know. You must ask him to show you 'the drawer' one of these days !!

Sorry, sorry, joking time over. Back to the serious topic at hand.

My sci-fi book collection is in the hall, just next to the staircase, all of you who have been to my place have walked by the book cabinet. Sad but true, only one of them has the word 'sex' in the title ... ... yes, KN, you may borrow it the next time ...

VS126 wrote:

WOW, That is an impressive stack of information

Now have to go to Amazon.com. Have to play catch up.

Or never mind lah....just have to consult mugen over T/T or beer?

To get more infor not only get from books, here more valueble article/information and all base on research regarding all behavior and types of amplifier.

http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/Xplore/dynhome.jsp

but you have to subscribe. Unless you are Student at my university.

I am not engineer (I hope I cover my backside already). TNB power cable travel kilometers from station to station, big cable to small cable, on the air to underground, in water to hot sun.... Not to mention your house wiring installer install for you 1.5mm small cable and 1 point can loop to many points with poor quality connectors and plug.
What the 1.5m of the anaconda power cable + the power conditional can do to your HiFi beside filter out some RFI?

Actually those TNB cables are NEVER small. Always HUGE. From the sub-station/distribution box out also using very big cables. It is usually from the DB board that the regular 13amp wires are used.

kwwong wrote:I am not engineer (I hope I cover my backside already). TNB power cable travel kilometers from station to station, big cable to small cable, on the air to underground, in water to hot sun.... Not to mention your house wiring installer install for you 1.5mm small cable and 1 point can loop to many points with poor quality connectors and plug.
What the 1.5m of the anaconda power cable + the power conditional can do to your HiFi beside filter out some RFI?

So, pulling a dedicated thicker line from the DC Board to our listening room is inevitable and the most basic thing we must do. The cables outside our house is beyond our control.

I've known a friend who has applied local electricity Co. to connect another line to his house just solely for the purpose of his AV usage. He received 2 bills every month

The anaconda threathening size of power cord can be capacitive? Providing a virtual capacitor to the equipment~ Just guessing~

Mikapoh,

Is your friend in Malaysia ? I have friends who tried to do this with TNB but was rejected. The best you can is to daisy chain from the mains DB to another dedicated DB for the hifi. Or you can make the hifi DB the main one and daisy chain the original house DB off that. Some people with 3-phase ask their contractor to 'vacate' one of the phase and dedicated it to the hifi only though I understand the circuit becomes 'unbalanced' after that.

My friend is in Kuching, the cats city :-)

BTW, our power Co here is called SESCO.....

He also knows how much his audio room consumes electricity each month.

kwwong wrote:I am not engineer (I hope I cover my backside already). TNB power cable travel kilometers from station to station, big cable to small cable, on the air to underground, in water to hot sun.... Not to mention your house wiring installer install for you 1.5mm small cable and 1 point can loop to many points with poor quality connectors and plug.
What the 1.5m of the anaconda power cable + the power conditional can do to your HiFi beside filter out some RFI?

If you are keen in electrical distribution, u can try the TNB website (don't worry, guaranteed no gimmick or mumbo-jumbo there as well) and see how Electricity is distributed from the station to your home.

3 power phases, and in steps of KVolt multiples.

http://www.tnb.com.my/business/for-housing-developers-electrical-contractors/tnb-electricity-system.html

Basically there are alot of substations and distribution stations to step down from the 500KV to the 230V that reaches the homes.

All these transmission cables are beyond any hifi consumer's control, so you need not bother with it at all. And by law, you are not allowed to do any mod or tweaks to the supply at any upstream section before the usage meter. To maintain a safety margin, you shoud also not mess with anything between the meter and the MCB and ELCB panels. If you want to pull any new wires, get your qualified electrician to tap it from the MCB onwards.

As for the thick anaconda power cable with supposedly super high capacitance, it really depends if it will help improve the power delivery. This goes into how it will affect the Power-Factor that your equipment sees when its plugged to the power source via the Anaconda cable. It might be negligible, or it might make a notable difference. It really depends.

Most power conditioners do not correct for Power Factors except for really massive industrial units that automatically switch in&out banks of capacitors or inductors to bring the PF as close to "1".

RFI is inevitable. No design of any particular length of home power cord can keep out RFI that pollutes the entire national electrical grid. But this issue of RFI is also over-hyped. The Transformers in the hifi equipment already by their own nature, act as RF chokes to keep them from reaching the delicate hifi electronics. Hifi equipment are more prone to its own RFI pollution from the chips and other semiconductors within its own ckt boards. CD players and DACs are one such sources of RFI. TVs and other A/V equipment as well.

WongKN wrote:Actually those TNB cables are NEVER small. Always HUGE.
From the sub-station/distribution box out also using very big cables. It
is usually from the DB board that the regular 13amp wires are used.

Huge, and they are almost always fitted with a 100A fuse before feeding into the usage meters.

bassraptor wrote:My sci-fi book collection is in the hall, just next to the staircase, all of you who have been to my place have walked by the book cabinet. Sad but true, only one of them has the word 'sex' in the title ... ... yes, KN, you may borrow it the next time ...

Aiseh SJ, tsk, tsk..... you really live up to the moniker D.O.M. la.

HTkaki & I weren't talking about dirty novels la. Nowadays where got people read such novels. Got plenty of DVDs around why still need to read ?

We were talking about your stash of comic books la. You know lar, Amazing Tales #1 (the amazing Spider Man), the Man of Steel (Superman), Fantastic Four, etc. That's why I was talking about pinching and taking years to amass the collection.

You.... DIRTY OLD MAN !!!

Kena con already !! WAHAHAHAHAHA !!!

(sorry ar, next time we meet at the 'hangout', I buy you teh tarik )

mugenfoo wrote: .... Hifi equipment are more prone to its own RFI pollution from the chips and other semiconductors within its own ckt boards. CD players and DACs are one such sources of RFI. TVs and other A/V equipment as well.
.....

And the champion of them all are computers. PC, laptops, as well as handphones, etc.

Hey, I'm old school ...still get a kick out of readings books ...of any sort ...

bassraptor wrote:Hey, I'm old school ...still get a kick out of readings books ...of any sort ...

So does an electronic PDF or an e-Book on Kindle or the iPad qualify as well ?

soonthas wrote:Hi Jo,

I bought it mainly for my AV sys which has 4700 watt total max power consumption ( which the Purepower 2000i is less powerful to supply), due to my area drastic voltage fluctuation. Previously, the Servo 15 sub often cuts in and out during low voltage condition, disturbing movies mood.
As for hifi, stand-alone CS 16 leans out overall sound; body, weight, depth and low are much reduced; quite dry for my taste. However, if combined with the Titan-Substation-400Pro-PP 2000i, fortunately it does not change much on the original sound, only slightly reduces the mentioned 4 elements which can still be solved by tweaks. So it's fine to combine usage for hifi system too.

Wow! Quite an investment for your AV system for a 16A Torus! If you find adding a standalone CS16-AVR leans out the overall body, I think you have not fully explore your Torus well enough. The distribution of power, it needs to be evenly spread between its banks.

If you have the time, try to swap the power cords position so that it achieves the most balance spread from the sockets of Torus, it makes quite significant improvement once you get it right.

Jo Ki

WongKN wrote:

mugenfoo wrote: .... Hifi equipment are more prone to its own RFI pollution from the chips and other semiconductors within its own ckt boards. CD players and DACs are one such sources of RFI. TVs and other A/V equipment as well.
.....

And the champion of them all are computers. PC, laptops, as well as handphones, etc.

Yes, I think computers and laptops can unleashed the most RFI. I wonder that's the reason its ac cord or its vga cables have those original ferrite cores built into the cables. Oh, you can either use additional external ferrite to clamp onto them, at least to have peace of mind Speaking of ferrite, I have total of 5 clamped on the incoming power outside my house too. Not sure how effective (unquantifiable) but for peace of mind since they are not costing arms & legs. The others include fridge and air-con compressors.

Headphones are bad too. So, the best is not to bring them into our listening room? They are my 'cctv' & without them I will be totally isolated from outside world. Even my front house being robbed in I will not be aware

I am also being told that the remote controlled lightings like down-lights are the worst nightmare. Much detrimental than dimmers. Some like to use auto switching to feel like real cinema. Once movie ends, just on the lights by push of a button. It is the remote that using radio freq that can harm our beloved hi-fidelity sound.

Wong Suk, shall we leave our handphones outside when we do audition / listening to music. First, less RFI and more important is that no interruption from calls even if HM call.

Htkaki and a few the gurus am I qualified to join your "Hi-end" group over a cup of tea once in a while. No wonder Htkaki Triangle system is getting better & better. :-)

htkaki wrote:Wong Suk, shall we leave our handphones outside when we
do audition / listening to music. First, less RFI and more important is
that no interruption from calls even if HM call.

Mikapoh wrote:Htkaki and a few the gurus am I qualified to join your "Hi-end" group over a cup of tea once in a while. No wonder Htkaki Triangle system is getting better & better. :-)

Could be because he is using a secret weapon power conditioner also ......

Jo,

Every brand has its sonic character, the sound of standalone CS16 AVR powering my hifi sys is not to my preference as compared to being powered by Titan-Substation-400Pros-PP2000i (TS4P) combo. But I prefer standalone Torus sound over the standalone Accuphase, hence the purchase was decided.
Fortunately, Torus + TS4P on hifi sys sound is ok with Slightly Better noise floor, control, imaging and detail as compared to TS4P but at the same time, the earlier-mentioned cons are induced. Little effort has to be made to get back the prefered original sound.
As for av, TS4P + Torus further improve the ambient field, separations and focusing.

Hi mugenfoo,

I bet if he's using a secret weapon, you are no exception coz your hi-end system is among the top ten according to a reliable source.

Your group seems to produce some kind of *magic*. I think I should learn my magical lesson first before even consider be part of the magical group...

Mikapoh wrote:Hi mugenfoo,

I bet if he's using a secret weapon, you are no exception coz your hi-end system is among the top ten according to a reliable source.

Your group seems to produce some kind of *magic*. I think I should learn my magical lesson first before even consider be part of the magical group...

Fuyoo Top Ten! Mugen sounds like a pop star in Billboard Top 10

Could be because he is using a secret weapon power conditioner also ......

I am using this conditioner

Spoiler:

Ooppss, my bad. Wrong photo of conditioner

Mikapoh wrote:Hi mugenfoo,

I bet if he's using a secret
weapon, you are no exception coz your hi-end system is among the top ten
according to a reliable source.

Your
group seems to produce some kind of *magic*. I think I should learn my
magical lesson first before even consider be part of the magical
group...

Haiyah , Mikapoh ... you don't be a Kerpochee lah ...
my system is all chicken feed only. Jinjang standard, what do u expect ???
hahaha...

Mugen, since when have u moved to Jinjang ?? Sorry cannot help it lah. Now become a Jinjang Joe already !