Search
 
 

Display results as :
 


Rechercher Advanced Search

Subscribe to our Feed
addtomyyahoo4Subscribe in NewsGator OnlineAdd to My AOL
Subscribe with BloglinesAdd to netvibes
Add to Google

200g LPs - too much bass

Page 2 of 2 Previous  1, 2

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: 200g LPs - too much bass

Post by alphadog467 on Sat Oct 15, 2011 4:41 pm

Shah Alam. Not sure if you can recall, we spoke briefly at Acqoustique System's at Amcorp Mall last week. I was asking Lim if cleaning the records would help with the sound.

alphadog467
Club Member
Club Member

Male Number of posts: 35
Age: 40
Location: Malaysia
Registration date: 2009-03-10

Back to top Go down

Re: 200g LPs - too much bass

Post by zulkifar on Sat Oct 15, 2011 5:15 pm

alphadog467 wrote:Okaaaay ....

After hearing all the Vinyl sifus deliberate, I have decided to either (1) seek professional help (as in pay a pro to fix it) or (2) stick to listening regular LPs. Crying or Very sad

Many thanks guys! U guys rock!



Hi Alphadog,
Before you give up on giving it a try, may be the following will help.
Try out these steps to adjust the VTA for the Ekos on an LP12:
1. Mount the LP12 on a jig with the baseboard/Trampolin removed.
2. Make sure your arm is secured in the armrest.
3. Stick some masking tape between your platter and top plate but allow some slack for vertical movement of the suspension. You just don’t want the platter to spin.
4. Take a piece of about 6x3 inch hardboard and draw parallel lines with one tenth of an inch gaps. Number these lines.
5. Make a base for this board so that it sits upright (180degrees) and put it on your platter (with a flat record in place) between the spindle and arm pillar.
6. Place arm onto record and take note of the line number where the arm tube is. Your eye has to be level with the arm tube. Use this line number as the base reference point on which you make adjustments.
7. Remove arm and secure in armrest.
8. Facing the TT, on the right of the arm collar there is a hole where the bolt to adjust VTA is located. With an allen key (no. 4 probably), slowly turn the bolt in the arm collar anticlockwise. If I recall, it should be a spring loaded so the release is gradual. Even if the arm pillar drops, you need not fear about your cartridge for as long as your arm is in the armrest.
9. Once slightly loosen, you can now adjust VTA by slowly moving the arm pillar. Only do this from the bottom by gliding the arm pillar up or down. This means you need to have your hand in the plinth. Pushing or pulling from the top may wreck your bearings!
10. From the reference point, move the height of the arm incrementally. Moving up will reduce the low frequencies; the problem you are facing with 200gm vinyls.
11. After you have moved the pillar up slightly, finger tighten the bolt and repeat Steps No. 5 through 7, taking note of your new reference number. How much you move will depend on your ears and don’t worry about not having the arm tube parallel to the platter. Never use another tool like pliers for leverage on the allen key to tighten the bolt because over tightening may bend your pillar and wreck your bearings.
12. Check VTF or stylus pressure (unfortunately changing VTA also changes VTF).
13. Then remove platter, remove your LP12 from the jig, put back the baseboard/Trampolin and place it back (with the platter of course) on your rack.
14. Power up, pray hard and listen.
15. If your prayers are unanswered, you may take it as retribution for indulging in a hobby by neglecting your duties, so repeat Step No. 1 onwards!
[/list]
Note: The assumption here is that your cartridge and LP12 are already properly setup, you only need some basic skills and the necessary tools. Major adjustments on the arm pillar will also affect the tonearm cable which may impact the bounce or even touch the base, so keep a watchful eye on this.
VTA is a contentious subject amongst both designers of cartridges and tonearms alike. For example VDH whose cartridges are angled at 22 degrees recommends a few additional degrees. Most tonearm designers do not provide for VTA adjustments despite knowing for a fact that vinyl comes in varying thickness, not to mention old vinyl were cut differently. So the best bet is to trust the most valuable tool, your ears.
BTW, try to google Jimmy Hughes (LP12 setup), Russ Andrews (LP12 jig) and Geoff Husband (VTA); you can learn a bit more about setting-up the LP12 and VTA adjustments.
The Ekos is a very good arm and generally viewed as better than the Ittok so partnered with the LP12 you should be able to maximize your AT cartridge. In terms of sonic priorities, the arm does come ahead of the cartridge even though the Ekos is certainly capable of much better choices.
The above are mere suggestions in addition to what has already been written on this forum. Decide what you think is best and if you are still not confident enough, call 999. You now need help!

zulkifar
New Member
New Member

Male Number of posts: 22
Age: 52
Location: Kuala Lumpur
Registration date: 2009-10-27

Character sheet
Source(s): LP,CD
Amplification: SET
Speakers: Dynamic

Back to top Go down

Re: 200g LPs - too much bass

Post by alphadog467 on Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:02 pm

Hi Zul,

Thanks for the step-by-step guide. On your suggestion to google the setups by Jimmy Hughes, etc - thanks, I think this is very useful indeed. Will do necessary reading. If I feel confident enough, I might give it a go. And if I do, I will share the findings with all. Will probably need to call one of you for further help, if you guys don't mind.

Thanks once again.

alphadog467
Club Member
Club Member

Male Number of posts: 35
Age: 40
Location: Malaysia
Registration date: 2009-03-10

Back to top Go down

Re: 200g LPs - too much bass

Post by mugenfoo on Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:45 pm

See.. playing vinyl is 1000x more interesting than CD, if you're willing to invest the time & effort that is! Razz

Can some of you guys imagine how painful and difficult doing vinyl setup before the age of the Internet? When one had to rely on half-hacks, trial & errors and empirical knowledge passed around by many a self-achieved gurus ?

We are truly blessed in the advent of information freedom today (just remember to be wise enough to filter out alot of the BS as well...)

mugenfoo
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor

Male Number of posts: 2665
Age: 36
Location: Republic of Wadiya
Registration date: 2009-04-04

Character sheet
Source(s): Marantz
Amplification: Exposure
Speakers: Harbeth P3ESR

Back to top Go down

Re: 200g LPs - too much bass

Post by cmboy on Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:00 pm

mugenfoo wrote:
We are truly blessed in the advent of information freedom today (just remember to be wise enough to filter out alot of the BS as well...)


Never entirely lah!, people will continue to be taken in by lots of BS every other day in other technical fields from car repairs to home appliances to home renovations lah!, internet no internet. Only if people take the trouble to do own homework through research. Smile

cmboy
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor

Male Number of posts: 1163
Age: 32
Location: The Eagle's Nest
Registration date: 2009-03-11

Character sheet
Source(s): Lots of favourite music with earphones from DAISO
Amplification:
Speakers:

Back to top Go down

Re: 200g LPs - too much bass

Post by mugenfoo on Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:40 pm

cmboy wrote:
mugenfoo wrote:
We are truly blessed in the advent of information freedom today (just remember to be wise enough to filter out alot of the BS as well...)


Never entirely lah!, people will continue to be taken in by lots of BS every other day in other technical fields from car repairs to home appliances to home renovations lah!, internet no internet. Only if people take the trouble to do own homework through research. Smile


its only normal that with more information available in the public.... also comes with more BS and noise. One of the safe ways not to get conned or suckered by all these info would be to have a reliable source of validated info (ie from academic references & textbooks). But positives from the internet still outweighs the negatives.

Don't tell me that you haven't benefited from using Google in looking up all those 3rd party Linn LP12 resources...

mugenfoo
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor

Male Number of posts: 2665
Age: 36
Location: Republic of Wadiya
Registration date: 2009-04-04

Character sheet
Source(s): Marantz
Amplification: Exposure
Speakers: Harbeth P3ESR

Back to top Go down

Re: 200g LPs - too much bass

Post by JediSavant on Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:55 am

The sharing of knowledge is one of the greatest gifts one can give and receive...

JediSavant
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor

Male Number of posts: 526
Age: 35
Location: KL/PJ
Registration date: 2011-08-23

Character sheet
Source(s): RegaPlanar3 w DenonDL103
Amplification: Exposure 2010s2
Speakers: SonusFaberToyTower

Back to top Go down

Re: 200g LPs - too much bass

Post by cyh on Sun Oct 16, 2011 2:01 pm

Hey Zul!
Cool post! Learning here Very Happy

Hi alphadog,
Don't give up...eagerly awaiting the results of your 'endeavors'! Very Happy

cyh
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor

Male Number of posts: 240
Age: 42
Location: NS
Registration date: 2009-01-22

Back to top Go down

Re: 200g LPs - too much bass

Post by alphadog467 on Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:42 pm

Hi All,


Thought that some of you may be interested to hear this … so
here it goes …


I made some progress over the weekend. Spent the entire weekend fiddling with phono
settings, speaker placement and powercord swap.
Managed to find the major culprit – the powercord. Was using a belden powercord with built-in blackgate
capacitor to give a more “powerful” sound at the bottom. Tons of bass but no highs. Good for the regular LPs but the thicker ones
produced too much bass. A case of too
much ajinomoto.


Things started to sound better after (1) toe-ing in the
speakers and (2) setting the phono capacitance to 360pf, 47k loading and lowering the gain setting by 2 to 3 notches to somewhere in the middle (gain ranges
between 38 – 68). The highs have opened
up significantly but I do lose some impact at the bottom for certain
recordings. Generally, I can now play the thicker
records but the regular ones still sound better (no thickening of the bass).


I plan to send the TT to the Adrian’s place this weekend. Am also planning to upgrade the phono to the one
that has a bigger power supply. May consider
upgrading the powercord too but can’t do all at one go due to budget
constraints.


Once again, many thanks for your suggestions.

alphadog467
Club Member
Club Member

Male Number of posts: 35
Age: 40
Location: Malaysia
Registration date: 2009-03-10

Back to top Go down

Re: 200g LPs - too much bass

Post by zulkifar on Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:02 pm

Hi Alpha,
That's fantastic news. Hope you continue to enjoy the LP12/Ekos and things get better for you.

zulkifar
New Member
New Member

Male Number of posts: 22
Age: 52
Location: Kuala Lumpur
Registration date: 2009-10-27

Character sheet
Source(s): LP,CD
Amplification: SET
Speakers: Dynamic

Back to top Go down

Re: 200g LPs - too much bass

Post by cmboy on Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:39 pm

alphadog467 wrote:
Was using a belden powercord with built-in blackgate
capacitor
to give a more “powerful” sound at the bottom.


Powercord with blackgate caps? Something new here?

cmboy
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor

Male Number of posts: 1163
Age: 32
Location: The Eagle's Nest
Registration date: 2009-03-11

Character sheet
Source(s): Lots of favourite music with earphones from DAISO
Amplification:
Speakers:

Back to top Go down

Re: 200g LPs - too much bass

Post by WongKN on Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:17 pm

Alpha,

What catridge are you using (sorry if I missed it). The AIME phono with the 'bigger power supply' is the base multi-curve model and is extremely good. Better than Krell KPE Reference according to one person who upgraded along this path.

WongKN
Moderator
Moderator

Male Number of posts: 1774
Age: 50
Location: Malaysia
Registration date: 2009-01-20

Character sheet
Source(s):
Amplification:
Speakers:

Back to top Go down

Re: 200g LPs - too much bass

Post by mugenfoo on Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:22 pm

cmboy wrote:
alphadog467 wrote:
Was using a belden powercord with built-in blackgate
capacitor
to give a more “powerful” sound at the bottom.


Powercord with blackgate caps? Something new here?


Maybe it's not a Blackgate Cap but a Thyristor ? Sometimes its a popular tweak to put such a device to act as a noise & spike filter.

If it is indeed a capacitor installed in the powercord, that could potentially be a major electrical hazard already and that powercord should either be reverted back to its original form, or condemned altogether. Since Belden doesn't sell pre-packaged powercords but is a major cable manufacturer (ie. massive reels of cable on bullock-cart sized spools), this powercord is most likely to have been DIY'd and put together in the field.



Maybe alphadog can post a pict to be sure?

mugenfoo
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor

Male Number of posts: 2665
Age: 36
Location: Republic of Wadiya
Registration date: 2009-04-04

Character sheet
Source(s): Marantz
Amplification: Exposure
Speakers: Harbeth P3ESR

Back to top Go down

Re: 200g LPs - too much bass

Post by alphadog467 on Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:40 pm

Hi Mugen/CMBoy,


The powercord is indeed a DIY cord which I purchased from
Octave 4-5 years ago (maybe longer). I
was told that the powercord was DIY-ed with a blackgate cap to give the bass a
boost. Sorry if I don’t make any sense
here - I just took his word for it – have
never opened it up to verify this. Will
try to see if I can unsrew the plug and see what’s inside.


Hi WongKN,


I am using a Benz Micro Glider cart, a used unit which I
picked up from Adrian’s. Yes, the phono has
multi-curve capabilities but that’s not the prime reason for the upgrade as I
don’t own any records from the 50s or 60s era (as I am made to understand that
the multi-curve only benefits the older records). Of course, that’s the icing on the cake, but
what I am looking for is a “better” phono with similar flexibility (gain, load
& cap settings). I think the bigger
power supply will help my cause. Maybe
upgrading the powercord would be a better bet?
We’ll have to see.


I listen to mostly the 80s pop, jazz &
rock. Got some test pressing (eg
Jacintha and a few others playing on 45) and a few so-called “audiophile” grade
records. But I just haven’t been able to
get it sound as good as the regular, cheaper LPs. I don’t want to tweak the TT that it ends up
getting 10% of my collection to sound great but the rest to sound bad. Speaking of tweaks, has anyone tried the
Ringmat?

alphadog467
Club Member
Club Member

Male Number of posts: 35
Age: 40
Location: Malaysia
Registration date: 2009-03-10

Back to top Go down

Re: 200g LPs - too much bass

Post by WongKN on Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:20 pm

Alpha,

The multi-curve capability is not the only improvement the 'middle' model has over the basic model that you have. I am quite sure the circuit is a better implementation. In the end, I think it will probably boil down to return for investment because upgrading the power cord for your unit should give improvements but upgrading to the multi-curve will very likely give more improvements, but at a much higher cost.

WongKN
Moderator
Moderator

Male Number of posts: 1774
Age: 50
Location: Malaysia
Registration date: 2009-01-20

Character sheet
Source(s):
Amplification:
Speakers:

Back to top Go down

Re: 200g LPs - too much bass

Post by zeebee on Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:50 pm

mugenfoo wrote:
JediSavant wrote:Precisely.... But then why is that the OP is getting such a vast difference in bass quality from such minute irrelevant differences?


so it's probably due to something else ! Razz Razz Razz

And BTW, one neat trick in getting a Rega TT with a Rega cart to sound better, would be to abandon that stupid 3rd screw alignment and do a PROPER gauge job on it. Baerwald is just fine.


BR,

Happy Deepavali,

As they say, the proof of the pudding, is in the eating; the current set up of the Apheta on the P7 minus the middle screw as described by Foo San... and I've just spent 3 straight hours seduced by the dark force... Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil




Btw was spinning 200g and 180g Kind of Blue, Stan Getz-Joao Gilberto etc, not much difference (at least to my ears) of the bass end.



Last edited by zeebee on Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:59 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : add comments)

zeebee
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor

Male Number of posts: 321
Age: 48
Location: Kota Damansara
Registration date: 2009-02-05

Back to top Go down

Re: 200g LPs - too much bass

Post by mugenfoo on Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:04 pm

alphadog467 wrote:


I am using a Benz Micro Glider cart, a used unit which I
picked up from Adrian’s. Yes, the phono has
multi-curve capabilities but that’s not the prime reason for the upgrade as I don’t own any records from the 50s or 60s era (as I am made to understand that the multi-curve only benefits the older records). Of course, that’s the icing on the cake, but what I am looking for is a “better” phono with similar flexibility (gain, load
& cap settings). I think the bigger
power supply will help my cause. Maybe
upgrading the powercord would be a better bet?
We’ll have to see.


For anything less than RM10K, there really isnt much phonostages out there that can beat the AIME in terms of flexibility and sonic quality.
If you're really feeling the itch for a new super duper phono stage, you'll probably need to go for the big guns like Boulder, Nagra, FM, etc.... and most of them still don't have the flexibility of the AIME units.

When you have such a versatile phono stage like the AIME, it all just boils down to cart-phono load matching, and phonostage-to-amp gain matching.

Just got to keep experimenting to get the balance right... Razz

mugenfoo
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor

Male Number of posts: 2665
Age: 36
Location: Republic of Wadiya
Registration date: 2009-04-04

Character sheet
Source(s): Marantz
Amplification: Exposure
Speakers: Harbeth P3ESR

Back to top Go down

Re: 200g LPs - too much bass

Post by JediSavant on Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:13 pm

Zeebee: with Rega tables, the design philosophy is to forget about VTA and just play records... On my own system, which is a Planar 3, I find no difference in bass between types of records... Only anomaly I've come across is that some of the 180gm records sound a bit thin, but only slightly, which necessitates more gain!!! Rock on....

JediSavant
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor

Male Number of posts: 526
Age: 35
Location: KL/PJ
Registration date: 2011-08-23

Character sheet
Source(s): RegaPlanar3 w DenonDL103
Amplification: Exposure 2010s2
Speakers: SonusFaberToyTower

Back to top Go down

Re: 200g LPs - too much bass

Post by mugenfoo on Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:27 pm

For turntables (the whole vinyl eco-system: carts & tonearms & deck ) with sufficient resolution, (this includes bass resolution) then the VTA adjustment (amongst other things) would matter.

A poorly adjusted VTA setting wrecks havoc on just about the entire audible spectrum. But this has got to be really off-whack setting, ie. the tonearm has a very visually inclined slope.

There are also plenty of aftermarket solutions in adjusting VTA on a Rega deck. This can range from simple shim plates to elaborate VTA-Lifter mechanisms that you can adjust on the fly while playing.

mugenfoo
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor

Male Number of posts: 2665
Age: 36
Location: Republic of Wadiya
Registration date: 2009-04-04

Character sheet
Source(s): Marantz
Amplification: Exposure
Speakers: Harbeth P3ESR

Back to top Go down

Re: 200g LPs - too much bass

Post by zulkifar on Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:32 pm

I listen to mostly the 80s pop, jazz &
rock. Got some test pressing (eg
Jacintha and a few others playing on 45) and a few so-called “audiophile” grade
records. But I just haven’t been able to
get it sound as good as the regular, cheaper LPs. I don’t want to tweak the TT that it ends up
getting 10% of my collection to sound great but the rest to sound bad. Speaking of tweaks, has anyone tried the
Ringmat?
[/quote]

Hi Alpha,
Yes, I have tried the Ringmat Anniversary. They now have a new one with a gold spot which some claim is better but I have not tried it. The Ringmat has a different tonal quality when compared to the 'new' thinner Linn felt mat. Sounds slightly more delicate at the expense of warmth. If you are still with the older Linn mat, may be it's better to get the new one. Some also say the 2 sides of this mat sounds different. Mad

zulkifar
New Member
New Member

Male Number of posts: 22
Age: 52
Location: Kuala Lumpur
Registration date: 2009-10-27

Character sheet
Source(s): LP,CD
Amplification: SET
Speakers: Dynamic

Back to top Go down

Re: 200g LPs - too much bass

Post by alphadog467 on Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:35 am

Brought the LP12 over to Adrian’s yesterday. Got it fixed.
Needed his experience hands to get the settings right. Should
have done this earlier. The thought of moving the LP12 put me off (after hearing how finicky it can be).


Also upgraded the phono. Contrary to my earlier belief, the multi-curve thing benefits the newer
records too (at least some of it). Now I
can enjoy some of my collection which I wasn’t able to in the past - incredibly, I get to hear/feel the energy, drive, grunt/bite and definition previously missing in
some records. Spun records after records till 2am last night! Very Happy


WongKN & Mugen – thanks for nudging me in the right direction. And to all the rest of you, thanks
for your feedback and suggestions. Much appreciated.

alphadog467
Club Member
Club Member

Male Number of posts: 35
Age: 40
Location: Malaysia
Registration date: 2009-03-10

Back to top Go down

Re: 200g LPs - too much bass

Post by bassraptor on Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:46 am

Hey, guys, I've been out of the country whole week, just got back yesterday evening ... fleeing the floods in bangkok ... was in Chiangrai and Chiangmai test driving the new Chevvy Colorado pickup (truck, that is, not cartridge), very tiring trip as the organisers crammed the itinerary to make sure we didn't get up to any mischief! Tks to those who sent me Deepavali greetings.

Alpha, good to hear you've reached the solution ...

So, anyway, will be giving up hi-fi to concentrate on music, photography and driving ...Twisted Evil clown

bassraptor
Moderator
Moderator

Male Number of posts: 728
Age: 50
Location: Klang Valley
Registration date: 2009-01-17

Character sheet
Source(s): LP/CD/Streamer
Amplification: Yes
Speakers: Yes

Back to top Go down

Page 2 of 2 Previous  1, 2

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum