sweeet, thanks!!

by bal on Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:50 pm

cyh wrote:Hey bal...me no computer expert but normally I leave it connected to pc/notebook. If I need to, when finish with everything, just power off and unplug. Works for me and no issues....so far

Thanks my friend!

Bal

by sflam on Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:22 pm

Got a question for all you nice people who know komputers and stuff...

sometimes when i want to eject my external hard disc, i can't because my wee small Dell seems to think the hard disc is still in use. So what i do is to turn the computer off, and then eject the external hard disc.

Is this ok? Will i damage the external hard disc? It's a big 1 Tgig one, and i don't want to damage it or corrupt my hundreds of stored full WAV files in there.

Many thanks in advance, and Happy new year everyone!
Bal

i get this problem even with a thumbdrive or sd card on my pc. even when i close every programme, the computer still says it is still in use.
if u remove the thumbdrive/hard disk/sd card when this message flashes, there is the possibility that the data in the thumbdrive/hard disk/sd card may be corrupted.
when the pc/laptop is powered off, u can unplug the thumbdrive/ hard disk/sd card and there should be no issues.

by bal on Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:52 pm

sflam wrote:
Got a question for all you nice people who know komputers and stuff...

sometimes when i want to eject my external hard disc, i can't because my wee small Dell seems to think the hard disc is still in use. So what i do is to turn the computer off, and then eject the external hard disc.

Is this ok? Will i damage the external hard disc? It's a big 1 Tgig one, and i don't want to damage it or corrupt my hundreds of stored full WAV files in there.

Many thanks in advance, and Happy new year everyone!
Bal

i get this problem even with a thumbdrive or sd card on my pc. even when i close every programme, the computer still says it is still in use.
if u remove the thumbdrive/hard disk/sd card when this message flashes, there is the possibility that the data in the thumbdrive/hard disk/sd card may be corrupted.
when the pc/laptop is powered off, u can unplug the thumbdrive/ hard disk/sd card and there should be no issues.

Thank you thank you!
now i know it is ok to do that.
Bal

by crittertoo on Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:32 am

where to you CAS people get your stuff? online? singapore? I am interested in the weiss int202 and the wavelink HS Asynchronous USB interface. Sin dealer has no demo for weiss int202 Sad

Raindrop I will try to call them tomorrow.

My current setup is
Apple Mini 2011, 2.5 Ghz, 4GB RAM, 60 GB SSD, using generic S/PDIF mini 3.5mm jack to optical. Running Pure Music. All playing flacs files ripped by dbpoweramp.

It is still sounding too thin on the low end spectrum compared to a Naim CDS2.

What are your SQ benchmarks when comparing CAS ?

kind regards

by jokiarch on Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:47 pm

Crittertoo, CAS is considered a new technology in audio application, where CD has come of age with LP/vinyl technology being most mature among the lot.

From your description, there is no problem in your ripping but your output and streaming have problem. If you are talking about SQ comparing CD and CAS, you ought to give both compatible with comparable care in their playbacks. If you are using Mac Mini for your digital music files, you should NOT be comparing their fidelity against CD in your Naim CDS2 but the CD-rom found in your Mac computer.

If you find it is absurd to use CD-rom to spin your CD, then please spare a moment to ask yourself why you don't find it wrong in using your Mac Mini to stream your digital music files....

As young as CAS is, whilst it is inevitable that this new format is still at its infancy age, but in a correct application, it can provides fidelity that will not disappoint you.

Jo Ki

by Wikin on Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:20 am

jokiarch wrote:
As young as CAS is, whilst it is inevitable that this new format is still at its infancy age, but in a correct application, it can provides fidelity that will not disappoint you.

Jo Ki

Fully agree with Jo on this. A matter of fact with a properly setup and optimized CAS, it CAN blow minds and throw out whatever old misconception about CAS there is.

cheers

by jokiarch on Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:58 pm

You are right Wikin. You took the plunge into CAS well before I did. I am sure you know better the pitfalls.

by crittertoo on Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:28 am

jokiarch - "you should NOT
be comparing their fidelity against CD in your Naim CDS2 but the CD-rom
found in your Mac computer "

ultimately (ihmo) it is about the SQ - the source to me does not matter HDX, CDX2, Klimax, Akurate, Weiss DAC202, CAS, ARC DAC8 etc etc. My benchmark is against the CDX2. So to brutalized it, it is a rm20k cd player vs a rm20k CAS.

The curiosity got the better of me, hence my CAS journey. I would just like to know "how far" has CAS gone.

So CAS gurus, how far/mature has/is CAS? (assumed mac mini is used) say compared to a Wadia 381? CDS2?

by VS126 on Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:00 am

Try the Aurender S10.
The reviews and awards all over the world.

by crittertoo on Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:31 am

and where do we audition all these "toys"? Malaysian certainly has a big fat ZERO. Closest is Singapore... Sad

by hasnul on Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:15 pm

Yo bal, that could be a sign your ext hdd going kaput ! My WD Ext went 6 feet under & 700 gb worth of flac files gone. Manage to salvage some but not sure the integrity of the files.

Best advice is to buy more hdd & backup more. Don't wait like I did. Nearly went mad as its very difficult get all those files back .... If....!

by **htkaki** on Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:20 pm

Aurender S10. That's interesting. Retails at SGD8,500.00. Ngam ngam for Crittertoo

Crittertoo, I am exploring CAS too Smile

. Maybe can work out a collaboration to do CAS at KLIAV this year. Anyway, you will be going back to overseas next month liao.

by crittertoo on Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:46 am

dear brader max.....klimax, aurender s10, ndx, bdp-1, olive are all as i call them "embedded" device. these devices have some kind of stripped down and tweeted software/firmware in them eg win7, some strip down version of linux etc etc.

What I am curious about is - how to get the mac mini 2011 to at least be able to stand up to a good cd player eg naim cds2 or even a wadia 381. The problem in Msia is - i can't find any products on demo on for CAS!!! Nearest is SIN... Sad

My mac mini is sounding like a typical PC sound...and the naim just "amplifier" everything!!!! and that is edgy, thin, harsh, no depth, muddle in the midrange, the high hurts...you know lah...the typical PC sound lah....only difference is, the naims makes it even LOUDER hahahaha!!!!!

I will continue to "pat" on this once I am in the UK, at least there, I have heaps of option and audition opportunity.

CAS at KLIAV - ? u wanna work with me? me? I am just a noobie lah....pai seh nanti... Smile

.

Just get a Linn KLIMAX and show lor...one of the best if not the best network player currently. Smile

by sflam on Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:51 pm

jokiarch wrote:

If you are using Mac Mini for your digital music files, you should NOT be comparing their fidelity against CD in your Naim CDS2 but the CD-rom found in your Mac computer.

If you find it is absurd to use CD-rom to spin your CD, then please spare a moment to ask yourself why you don't find it wrong in using your Mac Mini to stream your digital music files....

joki,

i don't think it is fair to compare a cd player with the dvd/cd drive of a laptop.

most laptops these days have dvd-rom/cd-rw drives. this is not optimised for cd playback whereas the cd player is designed and optimised for cd playback.

also, using a mac mini or any other laptop to STREAM music is another story and cannot be compared with playing a cd on the built-in dvd-rom/cd-rw drive. when u stream music, u r using software or a music player designed and optimised for playing music.

to level the playing field when comparing streamed music from laptop/mac with a cd player like the naim, the cd shld be ripped into a 16/44.1 file (in wav, flac, aiff, etc) and compared with the cd.

by jokiarch on Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:04 pm

sflam,

Please read my post again, you have misread my post.

1. It is NOT fair to compare digital music streamed via Mac Mini against CD played through Naim CD player because Naim is a dedicated cd player with more than 30 years of technology development packed inside it.

2. In another words, I would say it would be more fair if digital music is streamed via proper digital media streamer (not PC, laptop) but properly designed digital player like M1CLiC, BDP-1, Naim HDX, etc. streaming ripped 16x44.1 and pitch against dedicated CD players.

I hope I am more clear with this explanation.

by sflam on Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:13 pm

ok,
i misunderstood yr post.
u r perfectly correct.

but i still think a properly set up laptop/mac can sound good.

by crittertoo on Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:54 pm

very good points made by sflam and jokiarch. Apple vs apple and oranges vs oranges. But at the end of the day, it all boils down to personnel sq preferences.

The million dollars question i have is - can the mac mini compete with a Naim CDS2 or CDX2, whether it's achieved through streaming (uPnP), flac, wav, NAS, usb, firewire, spdif bnc, aes, optical and the gazillions of options via mac output ==>gazillions options ==> DAC == > pre amps == > amps?

The Akurate, Klimax, HDX paired with a say ARC DAC 8 or a Naim DAC can surely outplay CDS2, CDX2 and even CDX3 in terms of SQ (imho off course).

But I really wanna find out whether a mac mini can outplay the CDS2 or the CDX2...as they say, curiosity kills the cat but in my case the curiosity will kill my bank account.. Smile

by VS126 on Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:31 am

A modded mac mini with all the full works will make you change yr mind about yr Naim.
A well set up Window laptop with proper media software like JRivers will beat most CD Players. I have been there. That is why I sold my approx. RM40K MBL CD player (which I consider one of the most analogue sounding player available (IMHO).

Yes, contary to what some might think, playing from Windows Laptop or Mac Mini can sound very good.

You just need to know how to configure it. Do not expect to get good sound from yr mac mini fresh from the box.
Unless one is used to the signature sound (coloured sound) of certain CD Players, CAS offers a window into what the future has to offer NOW.
I know people playing mega bucks system ie hundreds of thousand ringgit systems using only mac mini or laptop as source.

Look at CES, how many exhibitor using laptop/macmini with amarra/rivers/jplay as source?

If they are not as good or better than CD Player, would the manufacturer allow their amps/systems to be auditioned thru computer as source?
Think about it.
As for me, Nothing beats "The Aurender" for modern playback at this moment.

by samazzah on Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:37 am

Agreed with VS126 about the sound quality of Macs and/or PC CD-ROM drives. That's because of the very nature of CD-ROM drives, they are for data and so little error correction is used (to allow nearly all the data to be read) whereas the CD player drives use much more error correction to allow for tracking of music cds with holes even! In the past a lot of music CD makers like Tel Arc, Naxos too if not mistaken; mastered their classical music using only Macs as a matter of fact.
The only issue today is that a number of CD player makers use PC CD-ROm drives - like Audiolab, etc. While good, the reliability is much lower unless they are used regularly otherwise the possibility of sticking is high and resultant mistracking (the tracking arm moves slowly and so lots of things can go wrong). Reliable and high end CD player drives like the Philips and Sony have long gone out of business.
One final caveat about using Macs and PCs though, Musical Fidelity proved that asynchoronous connection for PCs and Macs is better with their V-Link to allow the external device to control the rate of bit transfer - check it out! The analogy is a bit like the camera world where DSLRs are proving to be just as good if not better than professional movie cams that cost 10x DSLRs to record movies! Though reliability may not be the same.

by VS126 on Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:45 am

samazzah wrote:
One final caveat about using Macs and PCs though, Musical Fidelity proved that asynchoronous connection for PCs and Macs is better.

A while ago someone here strongly argued that Adaptive is better than Asynchoronous.

But we all know better...

by samazzah on Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:12 am

Agreed again, our audiophile community is actually slightly behind the times (I'll probably get hanged for this but a little patience). Out there in the west, there is quite a backlash for the audio high end and so people look for the biggest bang for the buck. Its not helped by the economic problems and so it seems, audiophiles seem to go for less box count, less 'hard' software like CDs, active speakers, wireless connections using Apple Express and basically using the PC as the source. The fans of the active speakers community include recording engineers who understand and recognize real music and not the boomy bass that comes from passive sound systems (amps, speakers, etc).
Though I cannot speak the same for China or India where the wealthy are buying everything the high end audio is selling!
The downside of all this CAS and DAS (they are the same despite what has been written) is that audiophiles in this part of the world do not have high res download services like HDtracks, Itrax, Spotify, etc. Recently I tried to get myself an Apple ID for itunes downloads using the web but Apple in M'sia makes it hard for non-Apple users. Worse, a few years ago, I gave away my ipod to my niece studying in Dublin because the Apple site clearly stated, 'itunes downloads is not available in your region'. Its probably better now but it sure is not easy getting an itunes download. What good is having an ipod if you can't download music? Ripping CDs is just hard work! We're being ripped off by Apple. Even Apple China has better service!

by sflam on Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:56 am

crittertoo,
if u r getting thin, edgy and bright sound from yr macmini, i can think of a few possible causes.
the dac cld be thin, edgy and bright sounding, the usb cable cld be thin, edgy and bright sounding or yr itunes cld improve with the amarra add-on software.
i am now streaming music from a macbook air to a bladelius usb dac and this combo does not sound thin, edgy and bright. btw, with the latest mac os, u do not need to download a proprietary music player to stream hi-res files.
my resident cas system comprises a juiced-up old toshiba laptop with windows 7 64-bit running j rivers v 16 (v 17 is already released) to a w4s dac-2. this does not sound thin, edgy or bright.

by zeebee on Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:18 pm

VS126 wrote:
As for me, Nothing beats "The Aurender" for modern playback at this moment.

Yeah bro, still waiting for your invite for a demo

by **Dwango** on Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:23 pm

samazzah wrote:Recently I tried to get myself an Apple ID for itunes downloads using the web but Apple in M'sia makes it hard for non-Apple users. Worse, a few years ago, I gave away my ipod to my niece studying in Dublin because the Apple site clearly stated, 'itunes downloads is not available in your region'. Its probably better now but it sure is not easy getting an itunes download. What good is having an ipod if you can't download music? Ripping CDs is just hard work! We're being ripped off by Apple. Even Apple China has better service!

It's not Apple's fault. It is because the music labels like Warner, Universal, Sony Music, does not give Apple the rights to sell their music in Malaysia (and many other Asian countries as well) .

That is why any Malaysia-based iTunes account is limited to Apps and podcasts only.

One way to get around this restriction would be to change your iTunes account to a USA address, and either key-in a Credit card with US billing address, or top up some value into it using those iTunes gift coupons. Or using a UK address also works, but you pay in GBP.

by sflam on Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:26 pm

samazzah wrote:
The downside of all this CAS and DAS (they are the same despite what has been written) is that audiophiles in this part of the world do not have high res download services like HDtracks, Itrax, Spotify, etc.

i hv downloaded hi-res stuff from hdtracks, hdtt and linn using malaysian credit card. no prob.

by **Dwango** on Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:36 pm

samazzah wrote:Agreed with VS126 about the sound quality of Macs and/or PC CD-ROM drives. That's because of the very nature of CD-ROM drives, they are for data and so little error correction is used (to allow nearly all the data to be read) whereas the CD player drives use much more error correction to allow for tracking of music cds with holes even! In the past a lot of music CD makers like Tel Arc, Naxos too if not mistaken; mastered their classical music using only Macs as a matter of fact.

Error correction is not so much a function of the drive, but more dependant on the way the data is encoded on the disc itself.

Philips-Sony redbook actually ALLOWS for a certain amount of bit error without adversely affecting the audio playback. This means that Audio playback of the original Redbook "Compact Disc" format is actually TOLERANT of uncorrectable errors (up to a certain threshold).But other DATA formats as used in DATA-CDRom actually have more robust error correction because the data retrieval from CD-Rom is actually totally intolerant of uncorrectable errors. So DATA CD-Roms are encoded more robustly on the disc compared to Redbook discs.

But this is not really the reason for a CD-ROM drive's superiority.
The true reason for CD-ROM drive's superiority is actually because these drives read the plastic surfaces of the disc better, one of the reasons on why some people champion CAS systems over traditional CD player/transport systems.

The downside of modern CD Rom drives is that they have quite poor lifespan. They are manufactured in massive quantities & very cheaply, and tend to have inferior mechanical components like cheap bearings and filmsy clamps. Plus they also are engineered to spin at much higher speeds, but not to last the test of time.

So a typical CAS using a 52x speed CDRom drive can actually read discs more accurately, but expect it to not last as long as an old-school Sony or Philips or Teac "CD Audio" transport that only spins at 1x speed but will function faithfully for 10+ years easily.

On a sidenote:
If anyone is keen to learn more about it, the Sony-philips redbook format is freely available in one of those AES library papers published 20+ years ago.

by **elhefe** on Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:40 pm

Crittertoo,

CD-Less set up is yet another journey that is offering various options for us to explore. I can see that you are a heavy user of CAS (computer based) and would like to go down that route around your mac mini. I believe you need to be patient to get the sound signature that you are looking for. I for sure tried but got fed up with the constant running of laptop and crashing every now and then, so decided to go down the DAS (NAS based) route and happy with the plug and play solution given by the CLiC.

Its interesting to see how the IT industry is now more involved in hifi industry. I can still remember at one time, the best we can get to improve the sound from our PC/laptop was to use Logitech or Edifier computer speakers hehehehe. But now, with all the mods that can be done the hardware and software, its like another branch of a potential IT business. I wonder if one day, companies like Apple, Lenovo, ASUS would consider a formal JV with hifi companies.

by **elhefe** on Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:45 pm

sflam wrote:
samazzah wrote:
The downside of all this CAS and DAS (they are the same despite what has been written) is that audiophiles in this part of the world do not have high res download services like HDtracks, Itrax, Spotify, etc.

i hv downloaded hi-res stuff from hdtracks, hdtt and linn using malaysian credit card. no prob.

sflam,

For hdtracks, its via paypal right? it will not allow direct purchase on a malaysian credit card.

by sflam on Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:59 pm

it was direct to credit card. but i used a citibank visa. i am not sure if that's considered 'foreign'.

by VS126 on Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:37 pm

zeebee wrote:
VS126 wrote:
As for me, Nothing beats "The Aurender" for modern playback at this moment.

Yeah bro, still waiting for your invite for a demo

ZB, for you anytime lah. Just pop by uninvited. Beers all around.

BTW still waiting for yr invite on the 3.7

by tycham on Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:45 pm

VS126 wrote:
A while ago someone here strongly argued that Adaptive is better than Asynchoronous.

But we all know better...

But my peference is to disable the USB Controllers i.e. no USB on my computer.

by VS126 on Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:58 pm

I use AES/EBU out of my Aurender. No USB output.
USB output not all that BAD.

by tycham on Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:03 am

VS126 wrote:I use AES/EBU out of my Aurender. No USB output.
USB output not all that BAD.

Quite true but I am not talking about USB output. Stil require asynch USB for DSD files output and any other files beyond 192kHz.

Almost all computers nowadays use USB Mouse, USB Keyboard, USB External Drives..etc.

These all have ill-effects on the sonic quality.

Switching from USB to PS/2 mouse and keyboard, yield a very significant positive effect on the sound quality. External drive is connected via eSATA.

by VS126 on Sat Feb 11, 2012 2:25 pm

No USB Mouse, keyboard.

Internal HD connect thru ESATA then transfer to internal SSD for music playback. Then the HD put to sleep to minimise noise.

All playback and programe controlled thru Ipad.

Internal clocking using Oven control clock.

The Aurender guys have done their homework.

Ontop of that, the best interface in the market thru Ipad.

Most important....the sound.

by joeling on Sat Feb 11, 2012 3:02 pm

Sigh, the Aurender has won me over too. In my system, better than Mach2music mac mini + Amarra & CAPS2 + Jplay.

Regards,
Joe Ling

PS : Please have mercy Ray, let the R10 cook for a few more years...

by sflam on Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:39 pm

elhefe wrote:

sflam,

For hdtracks, its via paypal right? it will not allow direct purchase on a malaysian credit card.

sflam wrote:

it was direct to credit card. but i used a citibank visa. i am not sure if that's considered 'foreign'.

i just checked my hdtracks account and found out that i had registered my account using a US address.

hdtracks says "for the time being it only sells to US residents". but it is possible to bypass that by using any US address to register yr account.

i used my malaysian credit card to pay and there was no problem at all.

CD-Less Set Up for Dummies

sweeet, thanks!!

Re: CD-Less Set Up for Dummies

ah, now i know! many many thanks!

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