Vinyl or CD

I am sorry for this interruption but I realize that the childish accusations in another thread might have caused some confusions over a recent action I did here. So I want to clarify. I think it is also important because it will explain how I see the issues of arguments as is : what is acceptable and what is not.

Basically I intervened on the interchange between lewce1 and JediSavant. Actually I think neither one of them did anything really wrong but with the recent developments, I had wanted to be especially vigilant in establishing proper courtesy here. So you two guys, please don't be alarmed, I am just using your posts as examples, nothing wrong you two really did.

The whole thing was started by lewce1 (there must be a starting point, good or bad) who talked about how he thinks LPs are for older music and so forth.

The first post which triggered my attention was by Jedi who wrote the following segment:
In case you've been living in a cave, or been out feeding non-existent
cows, turntables are still being produced, to be played on contemporary
equipment, which in their totality
sound nothing like CDs...

It wasn't really bad but it do sound a little bit undiplomatic. This triggered the alarm bell (I so happen to follow this thread also). But there are various possibilities. Perhaps Jedi and lewce1 are in fact very good buddies and they usually 'taruh' each other. All in the name of fun Or perhaps the words were spoken tongue in cheek ? But without any further indications, like hahaha, or LOL or icons, it is difficult to know exactly. So everything depends on how lewce1 takes it.

Lewce1's response was :
You seemed to live in a much darker cave.You have too shallow exposure
to quality CDP.......take modern LPs and compare with modern CDs using
modern gears.......Norah Jones "Come Away with Me" 200g LP Vs US Import
CD, price ratio 3:1 then comment.

Not forgetting the inconvenience of LP format which I believe caveman is not tired of.

The first sentence by lewce1 triggered off the alarm bells. However, lewce1 also ended the post with a smiley. So how ?

In the end, I decided to take the safer proactive way out. I decided to issue an 'appeal' (not a demand, it was an appeal). And thus :
Important Interruption :

I can see the beginning of insults in
this thread. So I am calling for it to stop before it really gets
started. It is perfectly fine to disagree and to argue with each other,
no two persons can have perfectly identical opinions. But there is no
need to be abusive when arguing. So please respect the other person and
have basic courtesy when you put a counter point across. Thanks in
advance for your cooperation.

Re-reading it, perhaps the words were quite too firm to sound like an appeal, more like an instruction. But the original intention was it as an appeal. The idea is to stop things developing before they go rotten.

Lewce1's positive response was indication that perhaps I had read it correctly and that he -could- have been a bit aggitated by Jedi's post. But most important of all, nothing nasty developed beause both forumers are matured adults.

So, in the future, in any post that might sound a bit 'harsh' is made in jest, tongue in cheek as a joke, it is important to indicate so. The lack of body language, facial expressions, etc makes it very easy to misunderstand in the internet. As long as you practise sincerity, courtesy and respect for each other, I actually feel some silliness adds spice to otherwise sterile discussions.

As an aside, Jedi, your -1 reputation was a result of your response above. It seems someone really felt it was a bit too undiplomatic and exercised his or her ability to vote. If it bothers you, I am afraid you have to 'earn' your 0 reputation back somehow, probably with a good samatarian post. I thought your original reply wasn't that bad, certainly a lot more civilized than others. Unfortunately I cannot reset people's reputation.

Interruption over, now please go back to your normal discussion.

Fortunately, we now know what kind of flip-flopping we can expect in the future.

JediSavant,

Please be clear about what you are talking about. Are you upset at the moderation I made to this thread ?

I'm not upset at all. That would be emotional. Jedis do not get emotional.

Then you need to be clear what you are talking about. I apply a certain level of moderation but need to be consistent with everyone. However, if you prefer to be left alone to take care of any potential 'debates' you might get into (i.e. take care of yourself so to speak), you can always PM me with the request and I will leave you alone to manage it. Moderation can be 'modified' according to special requests by forumers. It has been done before, I have no problems with that. Else it is often a difficult call to make. Actually to be honest I prefer not to have to do moderation but I was asked when the forum was created so since I have agreed, I should do the job if I feel the need arise.

So, just PM me and let me know if you do not like to be moderated at this level.

Excitement, adventure, a Jedi craves not these things.

What does a Jedi crave for then?

Good times and Rock 'n Roll...

JediSavant wrote:Good times and Rock 'n Roll...

In a form of a 'Toy' ?

The Force is strong with you Chief...

...It spins consistently on a platter too!!...

.....if only I can master both the Jedi and Sith art...

Vinyl or CD?

To start off, we always wish of having good gear, good music and good mood to enjoy this hobby..

IMHO, being 'back to black' recently, vinyls are my preferred mode of my music listening, without being 'audiophilic' about it , especially to favourite discs/music. And now trying to collect old favourites whenever I can..

However, as with many things in life there are always some vinyls you try to avoid.. example:



For this album, the LP+ free CD version (not the Analague Production version), CD is definitely better than the LP.

Similar to Adele's '21' LP, sounds insipid and uninspiring... (I think elhefe posted this elsewhere)

Another one, MJ 25th Anniversary... totally out for me (just wished I didn't let go my original LP circa early 80's )



Therefore, Vinyl or CD... mostly vinyl for music at the mo

Anyway.. back to work..

I am glad to see some life coming back though I am still impressed at you guys because I am sneaking out time for this post. Enjoy yourselves !

It's scary but today I might just be buying some CDs cos I like the artist so much, but the vinyl releases just sound so compressed!!

Ok please refrain yourself to buying ONE only

Aaahh the jedi is spreading his wings...hehehe...

I bought a couple of CDs last week as well because the shop didn't have the LP version. Can't win all the time.

You cannot borrow a CD and rip it ? (Don't tell others I suggested this !)

Jedi,

It's worthwhile to check out some reviews online to save your that hard-earned $$$. Another one to avoid, IMHO, is the Eric Clapton Box-Set, the quality 'uneven', some songs totally unbearable..



Btw, Young Jedi, my kids and I went thru all 6 blu-rays of the Star Wars saga for the past few weeks and I'm explaining what is what bla, bla..bla when I first saw the movie back in 1976 (?).. Phew... that long huhh

We are also been having a ball on Star War Spoofs... check put these spoofs ..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVrIyEu6h_E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ku17InceClM

May the Dark Force be with you young Jedi

I've been a fan for a long long time... Episode 4: A New Hope was released in 1977. I was only a year old then, but I caught up pretty quickly, thanks to the nascent years of Betamax and then VHS.

My folks never explained any of it to me, and I found myself explaining it to THEM, after we saw Return of the Jedi in 1983.... anyways, we digress...

The vinyl in question is Joe Bonamassa's Dust Bowl album, and I bought it simply 'cos I saw it in Singapore under 'new releases' and I'm a huge fan of his stuff having seen the magnificent "Live at the Royal Albert Hall" dvd, with Clapton supporting him.

And normally, I do check out new releases first. Sometimes, the Force needs to be tempered.

Also, with the complete Clapton box-set, many of the tracks were taken from the original cuts which weren't all that great in the first place. Many artists' work suffer from this, Led Zeppelin being one example, whose Japanese pressings are far superior to the UK and US pressings in my humble opinion...

Damn... Jedisavant! Thats some hot shit AVATAR u got there!



(safety smileys)

i think CDs are very much improving than 20years ago.

with XRCD,DCD..now most audiophiles CD remastered in china infact yielded very good listening pleasure..I vote for CDs for conveniency and sound clean..less noise.

Errrr, I don't think I found any of my oldest CD's (dating back to mid 80's)noisy. Enlighten me what noise are you referring to?

BTW, how come at one particular and popular auction site for example selling HK artist CD's, there's sellers highlighting "1st pressing or early pressing" all asking for quite a high price moreover more expensive than the same remastered XRCD, DCD or whatever? Surely there's people who like the old CD's?

Then, time and again, I frequently come across comments from forumers who dislike new or enhanced pressings?

He meant CD is less noisy than vinyl .

DrWho wrote:He meant CD is less noisy than vinyl .

IMO, For systems that are only entry level to about RM10K, CD system would definitely sound better + the added convenience.

For systems costing RM15K onwards, thats where the magic of vinyl will be revealed for those fortunate (or daring enough) to venture into the "black territory".

At the top end of the spectrum, a simple & properly tuned RM20K vinyl front end can easily blow away a Rm150K Digital front end system, as of today year 2011. Maybe the story might be different in say 3 to 5 years time.

hi5papa wrote:i think CDs are very much improving than 20years ago.

with XRCD,DCD..now most audiophiles CD remastered in china infact yielded very good listening pleasure..I vote for CDs for conveniency and sound clean..less noise.

They have indeed improved very well since the early 1980s.

Thanks to more precision in the digital electronics such as better ADC chips, and more precise clocks, and better digital mastering techniques. etc etc etc.....

But the basic limitations of the original CD format still remains, which is 16/44.1, and no amount of fancy super duper upsample sidesample insample outsample can save it.

Maybe SACD and Hirez formats offer a glimmer of hope. But the music selection is pitifully small today.

For those people just wanna start this "dark side black territory" is better not near this

Better remain to cd or just straight try new era of hi rev - CAS

Hi...

Vinyl or CD its definetly going to be a choice one has to weight it base on desire, the need and the $$$ factor.

The only killing factor for one getting a vinyl is the limited choice, quality and the absurd pricing of both media types. Tha latest AV fair just strenghtened my believe and whats opined by the general population.

Keeping the "gloomy" pricing consideration out of this equation, I would think it's a must for any one with a proper hifi gear to have listened to a Vinyl or at least have a decent TT Setup. Mind you if the Vinyl setup is done to a certain perfection ( as described by MF and most ) there is no turning back on the deriatives.

My hardware upgrade or change has come to a peak point that i am satisfied on the musicality of it. Now, just taking a step back and enjoying the music.

It took me a while to get into Vinyl, not knowing the the realm but met a music kaki while rummaging through some CD's in AMCORP mall and he gave me a taste of the Vinyl poison, introduce me to this forum ...and the rest is history. Will dish out the same advice he gave me...

Do not fret on getting into Vinyl or CAS or what ever music medium ...just understand the requirement ( investment perspective ) and seek advice before you embark on the journey....we have many forummers here who are very or more then capable for dishing out good and sound advice.

End of the day one must enjoy the investment and the music from which ever medium it's being played.

cheers

vinyl sold locally is expensive because the volume is not much, and also some of the music distributors take the opportunity to charge a premium because they know "audiophile" people are willing to pay a premium for it.

But there are other ways to get good affordable vinyl. Alot of them from overseas via Internet & mail order.

RM50~60 for a new vinyl, incl shipping is not too bad. Since a new CD these days also costs RM45~50 bucks and its a locally pressed garbage edition.

mugenfoo wrote:IMO, For systems that are only entry level to about RM10K, CD system would definitely sound better + the added convenience.

For systems costing RM15K onwards, thats where the magic of vinyl will be revealed for those fortunate (or daring enough) to venture into the "black territory".

At the top end of the spectrum, a simple & properly tuned RM20K vinyl front end can easily blow away a Rm150K Digital front end system, as of today year 2011. Maybe the story might be different in say 3 to 5 years time.

I don't completely disagree, but I don't completely agree either...

The main point is that I believe a properly set up and tuned vinyl based system of any cost will provide more magic than the equivalent in CD... My system was barely touching the 10k cost ceiling, until recently...

As i mention b4 is better not to get involve with vinyl because to start this journey is not that easy (new comers)...play CD is very easy just plug n play...if u dont like or like the track just press the forward or rewind button from the remote...is not same like playing LP is very similar like take care new born baby,u need to be really passion.

To new comers who interested to explore this black journey please go and hang around with ur hifi kaki's who playing LP...dont just enjoy the good sound of it....learn to explore "back of house" of it..how to take good care of LP,Turntable set up, cleaning, tonearm and cartridge setting...try to feel how hard u need wake up from ur sofa to change the LP or change the track ( in 1 album how many tracks that u really like huh ) and u are already late to join this because all the hardware is going sky hi now days...last time i can buy "cheap cheap good good" LP in flea market but now to buy a single LP also need to think twice because of the price and condition but sometime what to do u already in part of it

p/s - I really enjoy my friend CAS system (Mr Sam) just sit and enjoy 1000 or more collection's just from the IPAD...u just need to wake up only if wanna go to toilet

fizi,

I'm interested in the point you make about changing tracks etc.

With CD and digital, yes, it's so easy to switch from one track to another, and from album to album and create playlists when streaming or playing with CAS.

Right now, my CD player is gathering dust under my equipment bench. And with LPs, I find myself listening through at least an entire side of a disc, and when time permits, I listen through entire albums. Perhaps it's the format driving the listening style, however, I feel there is an element of continuity and concept adherence when it comes to listening all the way thru to an album.

Many albums were intended by the artists to be listened to as a whole, as an entire work.

But i'm sure this isn't the case when it comes to Bieber, Gaga, BooBoo and BahBah... or whoever is in the top 10 right now... (safety smiley)

Jedi,

My comment is more apply to new comers who try to get experience and explore to black disk journey...to the kaki's who already inside the circle maybe they will think same as i am and sharing the moments and experience to the new comers.

When we talk bout TT set up or gears pricing, is more on matching.Proper set up will sound nice without harm ur pocket, with hifi4sale we can get good bargain of certain hi quality equipments.

The word "HI END" is never end

JediSavant wrote:... My system was barely touching the 10k cost ceiling, until recently...

That is what happens when you "get poisoned" ....

mugenfoo wrote:

JediSavant wrote:... My system was barely touching the 10k cost ceiling, until recently...

That is what happens when you "get poisoned" ....

p/s - to whom who got this idea in mine so better be prepared

It all matters what you think is best. Just like me, I luv valve amplifiers around 20-40watts, despite what others may say.

mugenfoo wrote:

JediSavant wrote:... My system was barely touching the 10k cost ceiling, until recently...

That is what happens when you "get poisoned" ....

...and even before the recent upgrades I would have pitted my humble system against a similar CD set up...

Now it ain't so humble anymore but is still far from the stratosphere... but very satisfying!

its up to individual which mode is more practical in their own application

in this hobby,dont bother too much what peoples say ,..its your ears and your preference..you spend $$ to enjoy music. Not spending unnecessarily ,spend it to your requirement comfortably.

in reality there is no "perfect"sound reproduction..the perfect "sound" is what you hear directly into your ears..not the processed sound that past through speakers!!

p/s - I really enjoy my friend CAS system (Mr Sam) just sit and enjoy
1000 or more collection's just from the IPAD...u just need to wake up
only if wanna go to toilet

vs

...with LPs, I find myself listening through at least an entire side of a
disc, and when time permits, I listen through entire albums. Perhaps
it's the format driving the listening style, however, I feel there is an
element of continuity and concept adherence when it comes to listening
all the way thru to an album.

....I rather listen....

Some of you vinyl lovers would know of Uncle Rama @ LG Amcorp Mall. i was rummaging through his boxes of rock, jazz and blues LPs on Sunday, and for the next few weeks he has some bargain boxes containing some interesting stuff. I managed to relieve him of a few titles, but there are plenty more to be had. Prices range from RM25-30 per title. A far cry from his usually ceiling high prices, but then again, these are not in NM condition. VG+ at the most, but if you have a record cleaner, no worries at all!!

jedi...have u join the CMY gathering on saturday ?

p/s - the tall and specky polarized Mr Rama

fizi, i didn't make it down to cmy as i wasn't feeling well on saturday...

yes, that's the Rama!

hmmm...actually wait for feedback on used LP from CMY....hehehehehhe

a bit late during last KLIAVS, surprise also this year CMY selling used LP during the show....most wanted LP gone on 1st day show...hopefully they will keeping import this black disk

Mr Rama is one of the partner in audio company those days.....

Fizi,
I did go down to CMY on Saturday. In fact went very early,almost helped with unlocking the shop grilles:). Never keen to drive into KL because of traffic and problems with parking. But came nevertheless, parked at Pavillion and walked to Sg Wang. Met a few forumers, including some very experienced (and friendly) sifus. The organizer was there being very helpful. On the record front, quite a good number of used LPs (about 10,000) I was told. Not many rock or metal LPs tho. But mostly I enjoyed the chit chat (topics ranged from slipped discs (the physiological kind, not silver or black discs), to photography, to rising cost of real estate:)....and of course some poison on upgrade paths too. Pity had to leave early tho.

T'mood - thanks for the info....10k black disk huh.....hmmmm whole day also not enough if wanna flip 1 by 1

Memang. Didn't seem that many to me tho. I managed to flip thru each one in about 1&1/2 hours time. Actually come to think of it, that's quite a long time Just like our better half going through each and every shoe, dress, handbags, scarves etc whenever there is a 'sale'

Kicking back with Rita Coolidge Live in Japan... sweet!

Jedi,
Saw a used copy of Gary Moore Live at Centre Circle this pm. Didn't have time to go through their collection of new and used but did come away with new reissues of Bad Company's self titled first album and a 180gm Hotel California LP.