PC Based Audio Systems... Anyone here use them?

thanks for the info chua.

http://tirnahifi.org/reviews/?page_id=9
Have you seen the modded hiface?

http://sites.google.com/site/hifacemods/home/announcements

I read through the thread and USB cables were touched.
Is there a audible difference - yes.

I found through various testing - I'm skeptical as hell with anything that requires alot of money - but a friend bought a Kimber cable and he was "challenged" by a belkin user another friend lol - that it was a waste of money.

So I sat there musing to myself what a bunch of tards arguing over a silly USB cable.

Then we did a shoot out, there was a clear difference - the kimber somehow increased the bandwidth of information passed on to the DAC and that increase the sound stage.. which sounds cool by comparison but the USB noise followed.

Annoying as hell.

Then last week I went over to his place to test some of my power cords, so I mucked around and tinker with his set.


I don't know if t was silly or a fluke, I decided to use the caiyin DAC01 as a digital transport to feed into the a citypulse via Digital out - another improvement in sound, the noise seem to be filtered.

So he finally took out his coax and optical cable to much around again, and there is another difference - spdif sounded very clean while coax was warmer - i believe how the information is passed on and the medium "colors" the signal.

So yes I was a skeptic and seriously thought it was snake oil till I've heard the difference myself and seriously it was refreshing and expanded my mindset to put my money where my mouth is...just to test it before concluding that it is snake oil.

Some times its easy to dismiss but extremely hard to justify - I know some people would demand technical info but as much as I've tried to find information regarding this, I can't seem to find a method to test empirically why the sound can be presented in such a way, so i keep an open mind now days and hear it first before commenting.

Now the belkin owner, can't say that it was a waste of money lol

perhaps you can tell us more your setup of the tests, what pc and windows drivers. you can try to find how does the setup make a difference. For e.g. if your usb cable (which carries the power supply) is connected to the digital transport (which has no power supply isolation in itself) then usb cable can make a difference.

U may want to follow the diyaudio thread and it is now more than evident that [graph is out]

attenuators does normalise the signals.

Hi Chua,

The test was primarily based upon power cords but the results were refreshing -

I can't remember the full specs of the computer, it was an AMD 9655 with an asus board and psu i'm not very sure what was it, using a cooler master casing front USB ports and WD green HDD.

OS was XP without any service pack as it was a fresh installation ( his computer spoiled so he just changed new hardware)

Testing were doing with various files but we used an XRCD ripped Eagles FLAC on the JRmedia center output via ASIO into ASIO4ALL

Kimber USB -> stock Caiyin DAC01 (with my self brewed powecord) -> digital out via Xindax Coaxial -> stock Citypulse (with another of my self brewed powercord) -> nanotech factory terminated interconnect -> stock Mistral integrated tube amp -> Phase audio 2.5 floor standers.

The limitation to test is which USB port is quieter because it is too short - 1 m only.

Do you have any interested design for USB cables with attenuators?
I've been meaning to self brew one and explore the digital cable possibility.

I am interested to buy the fixed RF attenuators from minicircuits but the shipping costs can be a high because minicircuit only use DHL/courier.

unless someone is interested too. I am planning to buy 2 units of attenuator (at USD 12 each for 6 and 10 dB)

Which one?
I'm shipping stuff from US as my gf needs to buy make up, can tompang along.

I am linking the thread where this guy posted some measurement and it is food for thot.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/168901-rf-attenuators-jitter-reducers-5.html#post2222973

In the Coaxial cable, it behave like transmission line with spdif signals being sent.

quote from steve
"

sorry, too busy enjoying vinyl to bother with digital lately....

But anyways here's the formula for signal reflections due to impedance mismatches.

TAU (greek letter T) = ( Z(load) - Z(char.imp) ) / ( Z(load) + Z(char.imp) )

The Standing wave ratio (S) = (1+Magnitude(TAU) ) / (1 - Magnitude(TAU) )

or its inverse equation: Magnitude(TAU) = (S-1) / (S+1)

So, yeah... go ahead and see for different values of TAU over the co-axial or USB link, whats the perceived change in sound.

I'm going back to my vinyls now..... cheerio.

RF transmission has always been a difficult subject in my uni days. For a moment, I would like to forget about it and leave this diff subject to the designer Chris sommovigo.

Have anyone tried ubuntu Studio.
I think it works great - suited right for audio application with low latency works straight out he box.

Ubuntu! Been wanting to try it for the longest time. I've got a slow Fujitsu P series ultraportable which is grinding to a halt on Windows XP. Tried using the Fujitsu to play through my Teralink X2 and it was none too impressive.

Now Ubuntu Studio!!! Thanks for pointing it out as it may be the ticket to getting the old Fujitsu P jammin out the good vibes. If I do succeed in getting it up and runnin, i'll let you guys know how it performs. If it supports the Teralink X2 that is.

bimmerman wrote:Ubuntu! Been wanting to try it for the longest time. I've got a slow Fujitsu P series ultraportable which is grinding to a halt on Windows XP. Tried using the Fujitsu to play through my Teralink X2 and it was none too impressive.

Now Ubuntu Studio!!! Thanks for pointing it out as it may be the ticket to getting the old Fujitsu P jammin out the good vibes. If I do succeed in getting it up and runnin, i'll let you guys know how it performs. If it supports the Teralink X2 that is.

issit a P1000 ? I had a P1000 that the LCD screen decided to really liquefy, hence had to dispose it as "hazardous waste" already, but not before i manage to salvage the 10GB HDD inside.

If it's a P1000, don't bother. the CPU is too slow for serious audio streaming.

I listened using my old notebook with win xp installed with the same drivers v1.03 to my hiface on system A. On system B I used the new notebook with win7 64bit with the hiface driver 1.03.

When I listen to system A, the sound is lifeless and at times, out of buffer even though I increase the buffer higher.

ON system B, I have no problem at all and got back the proper connection and smooth playback.

It's a P5010 with a Pentium M running at 900Mhz and has 512MB Ram. I shoehorned a 80GB hardisk in there sometime back. About the same size and weight as todays Atom powered netbooks and it even burns CD and reads DVD with it's built in drive. Screen resolution is a decent 1290X768 for such a tiny portable.



I've got a feeling it might like Ubuntu.

should be OK then, coz the old P1000 i had was equipped with that Transmeta Crusoe CPU. Supposed to be a super power saver, but it was also slower than blackstrap molasses running uphill, in winter. Windows ME in factory config.

Installed XP on it, and it just sorta grinded to a halt to just about anything.

But those Windows days are all behind now... Goodbye Crap OS.

I've tried the Ubuntu studio.
As much as it is stated for audio enthusiast, it is not as refined as I was expecting.
It is another machine compared to Ubuntu itself.

I wouldn't recommend it until further releases to fix alot of pending problems, such as virtual box and wine integration and suited more for pro audio rather than normal audiophiles who just want to listen to music.

However the sound that it outputs is much better than windows with ASIO4ALL.
I would recommend that you use the installer - Wubi to get a 2nd partition for ubuntu and install the following -

ALSA - Advance Linux Sound Architecture
JACK output
Open sound

These are the back end plugins for low latency output which contribute much to Linux unique sound - free and works better than winbloze.

There is a few things to note that, FLAC is not widely accepted so you'd have to use a player like Videolan to play, I have not experimented with others.

Biggest draw back would be the driver support which is slow as most company won't want to release the source files.

However there is a difference in the presentation -

As of now, I find that the music is less veil even with ASIO4ALL output.
Cleaner and better separation to my ears.

This is my findings so far, will update when I experiment with it more.
It is free but time consuming to familiarize and set it up but I believe it can be rewarding...

Thanks for the update. I will hold off on installing it until I hear more from you. So perhaps installing the regular ubuntu and then installing ALSA, JACK output and Open sound would be a better option for now?

Getting the new cutesy Mac Mini also did cross my mind. Instead of getting a Ipod classic and wadia dock why not just get a Mac Mini and small 10" LCD screen and play everything directly from iTunes. But so many things I want to buy right now, CD Transport... Power regenerator... So Ubuntu might be the best option for me.

I'm on ubuntu 10.04 now.
.cue files are a bitch to use, have to convert into ISO lol.

Currently am using videolan as many codecs are a hassle to download and install.
It's one of the better straight out of the box player.

output via ALAS -
Bass is tighter, treble have better clarity with nice sparkles.
Mids seems sweeter more rounded.

Separation is very nice.
Very revealing, had some files that was badly encoded i think..
When you play, it immediately you can tell.

I had some files that were okay on windows, but i could hear some distortions in the highs.

More texture now but the harshness is gone compared to ASIO4ALL
Sibilance is reduced.

Imaging is very tight, my limiting factor now is my A5s are too close.
If not it can easily fill an entire small room with 9pm setting.

However it seems to be much forward now.
It is leaning towards the bright side of neutral, so warm lovers won't like it as it'll be rather "cold" but if you like details, you'd be in for a treat or maybe if you color it with a warm preamp.

interesting..linux audio can sound so different.

@Theaudiohub

Ubuntuk runs on Linux? What setting are you using for ASIO4ALL?

ASIO Buffer Size?
Latency Compensation?
Buffer Offset?

Ubuntu is a distro of linux.

Asio4ALL in windows ?
Linux don't have Asio4ALL

so I wonder which sound u like best from ur favourite player, ubuntu or foobar or jriver.

I like the convenience of wmplayer but not its flexiblity. more than 90% of all my collection is in cue sheet. I can not afford to convert them.

update on the fix attenuator thingy. it looks like the reception is not that great. perhaps someone adjust the graph to make it look nice.

however at times, due to budget concern, we have no choice but to do some little tweaks here and there in hope of 'better' sound or 'worse'?

chua55 wrote:so I wonder which sound u like best from ur favourite player, ubuntu or foobar or jriver.

I like the convenience of wmplayer but not its flexiblity. more than 90% of all my collection is in cue sheet. I can not afford to convert them.

I have installed a fresh copy of Windows 7 with a dual boot of ubuntu 10.04.
Time will tell but I'm liking unbuntu more as it is - from my experience with windows sound for most of my audioholic life, i guess it is a new perspective - fresh and reinvigorating.

Anyway, for those who wants to know jitter, I wrote a blog post where I compiled my search on the net for some clue -


When I first heard about it, it was rather voodoo-ish to me but after looking at the simple write up, it does make some sense -
From Wiki -

Jitter in technical terms is the deviation in or displacement of some aspect of the pulses in a high-frequency digital signal. As the name suggests, jitter can be thought of as shaky pulses. The deviation can be in terms of amplitude, phase timing, or the width of the signal pulse. Another definition is that it is “the period frequency displacement of the signal from its ideal location.” Among the causes of jitter are electromagnetic interference (EMI) and crosstalk with other signals. Jitter can cause a display monitor to flicker; affect the ability of the processor in a personal computer to perform as intended; introduce clicks or other undesired effects in audio signals, and loss of transmitted data between network devices. The amount of allowable jitter depends greatly on the application.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jitter
You can read more about it here - http://audiohub.com.sg/blog-entries/crash-course-on-jitter/

Theaudiohub wrote:Ubuntu is a distro of linux.

Asio4ALL in windows ?
Linux don't have Asio4ALL

So have to run Linux from another partition to run ubuntuk?

You mention ASIO4ALL which is why I am asking about your settings.

Linux doesn't need ASIO; doesn't have mixer latency quirks?

tycham wrote:

Theaudiohub wrote:Ubuntu is a distro of linux.

Asio4ALL in windows ?
Linux don't have Asio4ALL

So have to run Linux from another partition to run ubuntuk?

You mention ASIO4ALL which is why I am asking about your settings.

Linux doesn't need ASIO; doesn't have mixer latency quirks?

I was comparing to windows ASIO4ALL - sorry for the confusion.
To run linux/ubuntu - just go to http://wubi-installer.org/ on a drive that have enough space - up to 30gb, it'll partition it for you.

Linux uses OSS/JACK/ALSA.

No risk to try if you don't like just go back to windows partition and remove it via add/remove program.

here is my foobar view with column ui.

still need to practise to make it itune / wmplyer like.

Theaudiohub wrote:

tycham wrote:

Theaudiohub wrote:Ubuntu is a distro of linux.

Asio4ALL in windows ?
Linux don't have Asio4ALL

So have to run Linux from another partition to run ubuntuk?

You mention ASIO4ALL which is why I am asking about your settings.

Linux doesn't need ASIO; doesn't have mixer latency quirks?

I was comparing to windows ASIO4ALL - sorry for the confusion.
To run linux/ubuntu - just go to http://wubi-installer.org/ on a drive that have enough space - up to 30gb, it'll partition it for you.

Linux uses OSS/JACK/ALSA.

No risk to try if you don't like just go back to windows partition and remove it via add/remove program.

Ok, thanks for the link.

@Theaudiolab, which Ubuntu did you install. The one I downloaded is an ISO image of Ubuntu Studio and it's 10.04. I'm wondering if yours is also Ubuntu Studio.

Instead of a partition, I have an old 40GB somewhere which I can use for the installation. I can just burn the 10.04 ISO image onto a DVD and boot and install from the DVD right? Don't need Wubi?

Now if only I can find the time.

http://www.ubuntu.com/

Don't use the ubuntu studio - get ubuntu 10.04 x32 i think for your system.
dump the ISO into the drive you want to use as a partition and run wubi and it'll do everything else for you.

If you 40GB drive = X
1. copy and paste the ISO into drive X
2. run Wubi
3. reboot
4. select ubuntu from the boot screen
5. continue installing ubuntu

Quite idiot proof.

After which whenever you start up, you'll be prompted to go into either ubuntu or windows.
If you leave it as such then it'll automatically go into windows.

If you really want to make unbuntu the sole OS, then http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/get-ubuntu/download
There is an option use a thumb drive (at least 2gb i think), so you don't waste a CDR.
If not then use the normal burn into CD route if your hardware doesn't allow boot ups via USB.

Quick and easy.

When you're inside the ubuntu interface - use the software center ( Applications -> Unbuntu Software center) and add in software/plugins accordingly.
There would be a whole list to choose from where you click install and just wait.

the others is abit more complicated but I'll just leave as this.

Thank you @Theaudiolab for the detailed explanation. I've checked out Wubi and it's indeed the easiest way into the world of Linux. No partitions needed, no need to burn a bootable DVD. Doesn't get easier than that!!! Still have to make my own coffee though.

I'm considering getting the new Mac Mini to store music and movies .. for music, my CD player has an USB input. I've tried iTunes and MediaMonkey on my Windows PC, and the latter does Flac, too. No issues in operation for me.

Am I spending too much? A friend who's a diehard Mac user says I can run the Mini on and on and it will remain cool and stable ... along with a screen, my final bill for the Mini, with some upgrades and accessories, will be around 3.7k ...

bassraptor wrote:I'm considering getting the new Mac Mini to store music and movies .. for music, my CD player has an USB input. I've tried iTunes and MediaMonkey on my Windows PC, and the latter does Flac, too. No issues in operation for me.

Am I spending too much? A friend who's a diehard Mac user says I can run the Mini on and on and it will remain cool and stable ... along with a screen, my final bill for the Mini, with some upgrades and accessories, will be around 3.7k ...

Bro,

I got the same plans for Mac Mini too!

llsaw wrote:

bassraptor wrote:I'm considering getting the new Mac Mini to store music and movies .. for music, my CD player has an USB input. I've tried iTunes and MediaMonkey on my Windows PC, and the latter does Flac, too. No issues in operation for me.

Am I spending too much? A friend who's a diehard Mac user says I can run the Mini on and on and it will remain cool and stable ... along with a screen, my final bill for the Mini, with some upgrades and accessories, will be around 3.7k ...

Bro,

I got the same plans for Mac Mini too!

Haha...me too. Mac Mini!

There is a discussion on the Mini here: http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=73105.0;all

Doesn't support Bluray?

Now, diff to choose.

digital transport and cd transport.

Hi-Fi 4 Sale wrote:

llsaw wrote:

bassraptor wrote:I'm considering getting the new Mac Mini to store music and movies .. for music, my CD player has an USB input. I've tried iTunes and MediaMonkey on my Windows PC, and the latter does Flac, too. No issues in operation for me.

Am I spending too much? A friend who's a diehard Mac user says I can run the Mini on and on and it will remain cool and stable ... along with a screen, my final bill for the Mini, with some upgrades and accessories, will be around 3.7k ...

Bro,

I got the same plans for Mac Mini too!

Haha...me too. Mac Mini!

The new Mac Mini looks damn awesome ... smaller footprint, more powerful CPU, more RAM.


If anyone interested in a bulk discount of Mac Minis, i may have some jalan ....

chua55 wrote:Now, diff to choose.

digital transport and cd transport.

Thats a jittery dilemma

But no more brick power supply

mugenfoo wrote:

Hi-Fi 4 Sale wrote:

llsaw wrote:

bassraptor wrote:I'm considering getting the new Mac Mini to store music and movies .. for music, my CD player has an USB input. I've tried iTunes and MediaMonkey on my Windows PC, and the latter does Flac, too. No issues in operation for me.

Am I spending too much? A friend who's a diehard Mac user says I can run the Mini on and on and it will remain cool and stable ... along with a screen, my final bill for the Mini, with some upgrades and accessories, will be around 3.7k ...

Bro,

I got the same plans for Mac Mini too!

Haha...me too. Mac Mini!

The new Mac Mini looks damn awesome ... smaller footprint, more powerful CPU, more RAM.


If anyone interested in a bulk discount of Mac Minis, i may have some jalan ....

mugenfoo wrote:

The new Mac Mini looks damn awesome ... smaller footprint, more powerful CPU, more RAM.


If anyone interested in a bulk discount of Mac Minis, i may have some jalan ....

Yup, i'm interested. Was thinking about it since the old Mac Mini. Plug it into the teralink X2 and play straight from iTunes instead of getting a Wadia dock and iPod classic.

I plugged a Dell laptop with iTunes on it, via USB to my Ayon CD-07, which has a USB input, was pleasant surprised by the results. Now the plan is to set up an alternative PC or Mac based system. Only thing, iTunes doesn't support Flac files ... so far, I've tried wav and lossless ...

no wonder you sold that Wadia dock! Say, which sounds better? Wav or Apple lossless?

http://www.hd-plex.com/

Check this out - fanless rack style chassis

Using the Pico PSU -
http://www.mini-box.com/s.nl/it.A/id.417/.f

bimmerman wrote:no wonder you sold that Wadia dock! Say, which sounds better? Wav or Apple lossless?

Actually, the PC project is just taking off to keep me amused ... ... Adrian and I did a comparo between Wav and Lossless, very minute differences with Wav inching ahead just almost. But outside a hi-fi system, these may not be discernible ...

I would like recommend separate power supply for
1. hdd, cdrom, bluray etc due to dc motor supply
2. cpu, graphics etc.

Theaudiohub wrote:
http://www.hd-plex.com/

Check this out - fanless rack style chassis

Using the Pico PSU -
http://www.mini-box.com/s.nl/it.A/id.417/.f

I have been using the Pico PSU powered by a off-the-shelve 12V Linear PSU for the P24 and there is a marked improvement in the SQ over the SMPS unit. Power supply for the CPU(P4), and all other peripherals are off another 12V, 5V linear PSU.




Others had reported similar experiences using the Peaktech 6080 + Pico PSU for the P24 rail and another separate unit for the P4 rail.

I'm just going to plug everything into my PurePower.


Anyone can recommend a good display for the new Mac Mini? It's got HDMI.

bassraptor wrote:I'm just going to plug everything into my PurePower.


Anyone can recommend a good display for the new Mac Mini? It's got HDMI.

For Computer use or to watch movies?

If for computer use, any of those Samsung Monitors would suffice, depending on your size preference.

If for movie/home-AV duties, Kuro man .... Kuro. Anything else would be a compromise!

Kuros are a disappearing item! But no, can't afford that. Just for readout from the Mac. If I want to play movies, I'll plug it into my Pana plasma - just HD-ready, but enough for now.

Apart from Pirate Bay, where else ... eh? u know what i mean ...

try lowyat forum. order 1 unit and have it sent to your doorstep or dell/acer.

Nowadays with digital transport that allow separate power supply, having a linear power supply would be a bonus.

What is going to the DAC will be determine by the by that power supply powering up the digital transport.

How is the new Mac Mini powered, any idea? Apple says it runs even cooler. Anyway, whether wall-wart, brick or whatever, it will go into my PurePower ... can't go wrong there!