Turntable lovers - Please Gather Here!

I dont care if Linn is discontinuing their CD palyers coz I am and will not buy one either. hahahahaha...

jazzman wrote:guys.... any tt to recommend?

For beginners on a budget, 2 options:
1. Brand new budget decks, lower range Rega and Pro-ject models the obvious choice.
2. My recommended option would be a second hand 70s to 80s models. Read internet for archived reviews before buying. TTs of this era were built like tanks mostly, so bearings and motors should last. Serviceable parts oil and belts easy to find. But you need some guidance from folks who used tts and into hi fi during this period. Many here so make friends, I'm sure some would give a helping hand when you audition/ check a prospective s/h purchase. My shortlist of raved about tts of this generation that'll possibly be sold at current budget tts include:
a. Thorens TD 160 ,160 Super models
b. Ariston
c. Systemdek models
e. Acoustic Research

Do check what arms they come with and the condition of their bearings. Again you need an expert friend. If suspect just offer to buy the deck and mount a brand new Rega 250.
You will note that all these are belt driven, and of suspended design. Because it was the preferred way back then. Well Japanese plastic bodied direct drive decks sold by the truckloads those days too but meant for the general masses since lp was the only way then. No self respecting hi fi enthusiast ever touched them.

Regards.

I am experiencing this similar 'sound' when doing late night listenings.. problem solved when I 'improved' the TT's grounding point.
I run a separate ground cable from the TT straight to the earth point. It would be better as one sifu recommended that I install a separate ground for the audio setup(copper rod in the ground), have not reached this point yet..

ora-ito wrote:hi guys,
.....

during long play hours, i noticed there is some disturbing noise.
Hum and some sort of interfering signal noise (maybe RF/power)
my senses tell me it might be coming from the inside, power distribution or the motor. however my experience with TTs is very little.

i hope to get some insight & tips from you guys

jazzy939 wrote:I am experiencing this similar 'sound' when doing late night listenings.. problem solved when I 'improved' the TT's grounding point.
I run a separate ground cable from the TT straight to the earth point. It would be better as one sifu recommended that I install a separate ground for the audio setup(copper rod in the ground), have not reached this point yet..

Sounds like static build-up between the stylus and the record surface. Very common.

And its more a problem with newer "audiophile" 180gm re-issue vinyls of late. The static buildup is so great that in my case it even lifts up the cork mat on the platter when flipping sides.

Don't over-do the ground though, or it will kill the sonic detailing.

guess how i solve it...
i removed the grounding cable from my pre-amp and the hum disappeared. so now i'm not bothered to have the grounding wire grounded.

How can that happen?

mugenfoo wrote:

Don't over-do the ground though, or it will kill the sonic detailing.

ora-ito wrote:guess how i solve it...
i removed the grounding cable from my pre-amp and the hum disappeared. so now i'm not bothered to have the grounding wire grounded.

Looks like your hum was caused by a ground loop. Yes, breaking that loop will solve it.
RCA connections also have this inherent problem. Or this could mean that one of the original earth points in some of your equipment is not too well earthed.

But in case if you get static pops and clicks, then can look for a suitable place to ground the TT's spindle and/or tonearm assembly to either the phono stage (if you happen to use an external unit), or to the wall socket.

On a sidenote: The original Naim philosophy was to stick with DIN
connections to maintain a true "Star topology" grounding system for all
their hifi equipment. No longer true for today's "modern" Naim.

i'm trying to change the rubber mat on the platter to an anti static material.
most electronic companies have this ESD mats.
i requested my tech to get me one. not sure if there will be any improvement...

ora-ito wrote:i'm trying to change the rubber mat on the platter to an anti static material.
most electronic companies have this ESD mats.
i requested my tech to get me one. not sure if there will be any improvement...

ok, just keep in mind to re-adjust the VTA since the mat thickness will change the VTA angle on your TT.

Pro-Ject also offers a cork mat as TT accessory. But I think I still like the sound very much with a felt mat for my Rega. IMO, the best made rubber mat is made by Technics and came standard with many Technics models. However its quite thick and may not be suitable as a direct replacement for other decks.

ok, i managed to change my mat to the ESD (anti-static) mat.
also changed my power plug from a 2 pin into a 3 pin plug and connected the grounding wire to Earth on the plug.

the results, reduced 70% static noise

Static?
Go get Nagaoka anti-static inner sleeves. They work every time.

I looking for the belt of JA Michell Engineering Focus - One TT.

Is it Millennium Hi-fi & AV?

car o scope wrote:I looking for the belt of JA Michell Engineering Focus - One TT.

Is it Millennium Hi-fi & AV?

Buy from Ebay. I usually find it easier to acquire preferred TT parts, spares and accessories from Ebay at the touch of your keyboard shipped direct to your address. There's many reputable UK Ebay sellers for these things there. I bought many things from Ebay to rebuild one of my other TT.

I just reading in this forum but luckly somebody offer me the Rotel RP1000 with very reasonable price. Already service with new belting. I feel the sound quality for me very good also not so special compare than my friend using mod Thorens TD126 MKlll.

Where could I refer to find the audiophile LP title? or could you all list out the title.

Hi all kaki pusingmeja especially mugen,

Thinking of buying a TT since I'm going to inherit hundred of kgs LP from my father inlaw. I don't hv experience/knowledge on TT except playing it(my dad TT) during my teen. I'm looking for one that require minimun/easy adjustment/maintenance or virtually none but produce resonable quality. I'm thinking of technic sl-1200. There is two in mudah.com, Mk1 going for rm750 and Mk11 going for rm1900. My budget is about RM1-1.6k(including cart) and don,t mind s/hand.
Come on, pour some opinions,ideas,recomemdation, etc,etc on me.

Wow ... congrats on your inheritance.

I think the best thing i can recommend u to get, is to get a record cleaner machine. You're gonna be real glad u got one to keep those old records in pristine condition. But it'll blow your budget x2.
The locally made unit sells for about RM1.7K but worth every penny if u intend to revive an old collection of 100+ LPs.


Also, whatever you do, don't ever use regular handsoap or dishwashing liquid to clean those records.
Specialty fluids are super expensive, so I'm gonna let u in on a secret: Amway LOC (the bio-degradable kind) is the safest way to clean all your precious LPs. And always only use filtered water. Regular tap water is bad becoz the quality of our local water supply contains too much sediments and these can also damage the LPs during cleaning.

OK, sorry for digressing....
Technics SL-12XX, its more of a robust DJ'ing TT rather than a home audiophile unit.

For Rm1.6K, suggest to go for a Rega P3-24 . Spare another Rm200~400 for a Rega Elys2 and you're all good to go.

Simple, minimal fuss setup.

Does your existing system have a "phono" input? If not, you'll need to get a separate phono stage as well. There's a s/hand unit Rotel 970-something for sale .... check it out if u need one.

Mugen, thks for the info. Where to start looking for one(TT and Cleaner). Rega Elys2 = cartridge right? Yes, I need phono stage or it's possible for me to use my a300 amp as phono stage as temporary.

ok, since u asked...

Here're some $$$ figures first:

Rega P3-24: RM1600
Rega Elys2 cartridge : RM approx 400?
TT cleaner aka washing machine: RM1700

Yes u could use the A300 as a phono stage, but its kinda awkward, don't u think?. a NAD PP-2 would be RM350 (shit sound though).
Rega also offers one called the "Fono".

Or my own personal recommendation, best bang for buck & audio performance, do go for a locally made FRANK Acoustics Pipit2 phono stage: RM1300 or there-abouts. To get a phono stage to beat this kind of performance, you'll need to spend almost double the price.
And all those "branded" few hundred bucks Phonos are quite shitty. Fixed gain adjustment, fixed loading and they're either MM or MC only. The Pipit2 Phono stage is ultra versatile (MM, MC, variable gain, variable loading) and hence can still be used even when u decided to upgrade to a RM10K+ TT system if u so choose.


So you're Rm1.9K budget just got blown to RM 5K .
(Rega TT + cart, Pipit phono, LP cleaner).

But if i were u and stand to inherit hundreds of KGs of LPs .. heck, RM5K to play all those wonderful & nostalgic LPs would still be a DAMN GOOD DEAL and MONEY WELL SPENT , IMO. Some people have spent more than RM10K on the hardware system alone with barely less than 20 LP titles in their collection. But to each their own eh ?

If u are keen to know where to buy what, pls PM me privately. I'm not in the habit of advertising publicly for any HiFi shops because I am not affiliated with any of them in any way except by virtue of being their occasional customer.

sam,
Buy the SL1200 and live happily ever after..

I also feel that the "washing machine" will become an essential in the later stage coz the LPs will get dust sooner or later.
Sending them to a shop for cleaning will also amount to a huge sum of fees.

Manual washing will be tiring if you have hundreds and hundreds of copies.
You will spend most of the time washing rather than listening.

Locally made "washing machine" will be good enough.

I agree with you Jazz939.

i agree with whatever also. Happy happy. Joy Joy.

car o scope wrote:I also feel that the "washing machine" will become an essential in the later stage coz the LPs will get dust sooner or later.
Sending them to a shop for cleaning will also amount to a huge sum of fees.

Manual washing will be tiring if you have hundreds and hundreds of copies.
You will spend most of the time washing rather than listening.

Locally made "washing machine" will be good enough.

Can anyone suggest a locally made 'washing machine?
So far i have been manually washing and have been thinking about the wood glue/ pva method but havent tried it yet.

In KL I saw a few at Yow Chuan Plaza, Jalan Ampang. Can't remember the shop's name though...

highcut28 wrote:
Can anyone suggest a locally made 'washing machine?
So far i have been manually washing and have been thinking about the wood glue/ pva method but havent tried it yet.

alot of such units around town.

jazzy939 wrote:In KL I saw a few at Yow Chuan Plaza, Jalan Ampang. Can't remember the shop's name though...

What Yow Chuan Plaza?...that place is now demolished and history.
Ok,ok.. a VPI cleaner is something to oogle at if price no issue..

Mugen, thanks for the facts and figures. Have to think about it. Quite a big amount(for me) to start but you hv gave me a head start. PMed on where to scout for one.

Jazzy939, thanks for the input. Of course I'll consider that option too. Might be a good start.

At the moment, to many things in mind on what to do but limited budget. hope don't hv to take too long. Thank you everyone.

Good luck n all the best bro!

Really? OMG!
Thanks for the update!

cmboy wrote:

jazzy939 wrote:In KL I saw a few at Yow Chuan Plaza, Jalan Ampang. Can't remember the shop's name though...

What Yow Chuan Plaza?...that place is now demolished and history.
Ok,ok.. a VPI cleaner is something to oogle at if price no issue..

cmboy wrote:

jazzy939 wrote:In KL I saw a few at Yow Chuan Plaza, Jalan Ampang. Can't remember the shop's name though...

What Yow Chuan Plaza?...that place is now demolished and history.
Ok,ok.. a VPI cleaner is something to oogle at if price no issue..

The locally made one is a "copy & improvement" over the VPI model.
Also uses the same VPI vacuum nozzle, but its got a more robust platter motor which u can clean LPs all day. High torque.

The original VPI version is known to overheat (the platter motor) and will cutoff (at least got safety thermostat) after about 4 LPs in a row.


A super hardcore cleaning maching would be like the Keith Monk or the Loricraft "in groove" cleaner machines. It uses a fine nylon thread to guide the mini suction head and will trace over the grooves to really do a thorough job.
But be prepared to pay around RM20K for such machines.

IF someone bought this machine and charges RM2 per LP, worth it?

most shops are charging RM5. New paper sleeve included.

If u wanna buy a machine and charge RM2 to your friends, thats entirely up to you. You can count how many washes u need to perform in order to ROI.

I might do it for free for just a few close friends, but i won't bother cleaning for other people & charging RM 2 or even 5 bucks. Not worth my time/effort since I'm not in the vinyl business anyway.

I've also heard of some people who pool together to buy this machine and share it amongst themselves , but its the leceh part of having to rotate and hold the machine... and you don't really get to use it totally at your own time & convenience either. So might as well just get it cleaned at the shop, or buy your machine for keeps.

2 bucks sounds reasonable enough.. not that I'm going to clean my entire collection on a monthly basis!
There is such a thing as 'overcleaning'???

I thought I'd reply to your posting from lowyat.net here....

jazzy939 wrote:


It is 'info'.. with regards to the state of the vinyl surface..

Anyway I found it and here's the paragraph:

"Compared
to the modern digital formats, the analogue LP record, with its signal
engraved in a vinyl disc, may look poor at first glance.
However, do
never forget that it is still the only medium (apart from the reel to
reel tape recorder) that can contain the most complete and most
structured signal providing great dynamics, having the widest frequency
band attainable, and has the most refined detail over the entire audio
spectrum and far beyond, which no other format can deliver.
The analog LP is not restricted to 16 or 24 bits and a limited frequency band, but has 700 bits
– so to speak – and the minute upper harmonics which digital formats
are missing. The simple reason is that the original LP is analogous in
nature.
If your CD outperforms your analog set-up, then you do not
have the right combination of components. In other words you forgot
about “system building”.
For those of you who are brainwashed
followers of the digital age, I understand. The CD and other digital
formats have so many conveniences that the record LP doesn’t have, and
we all know what those are. But, when it comes to sonics and overall quality of sound, so many are unaware of the LP’s superiority over the CD.
Many
people were won over by the CD in it’s early days because they didn’t
own a decent turn table (and no, Dual, Sony, or Technics isn’t my idea
of decent), or didn’t know proper care/maintenance and or
setup/alignment procedures etc, or couldn’t be bothered. Perfect time
for the CD to take the world by storm!.

The turntable is not without major flaws of its own:

Groove noise: There is no escaping the scratching & dragging sounds that will unavoidably be picked up when the diamond stylus tracks the grooves.

Dust susceptibility: We all know this problem. And how many of us would have a "Clean Room" where the entire hifi system sits?

Mechanical susceptibility: Airborne vibrations affects a TT much more than an electronic CD player (although it still does).

Sonic colouration from Geometric errors: ...and many more that I've posted @ hifi4sale.net. This is totally unavoidable no matter how high end the TT system. Yes, actually scoping the Freq response from a TT with a reference LP actually reveals a very non-linear and wavy freq resp.

Channel Separation: The mechanical needle (stylus profile) is never perfectly cut such that it will pick up Left and right signals cleanly. This is especially evident for bass freq regions despite the RIAA equalisation curve which reduces the physical modulation of bass freqs.

Transient Response: From my own experience and not with just entry level CD front end systems or budget TTs, although bass heavy music pieces have much more presence from LP sources, the instantaneous zip and transients cannot match those of a CD medium. The TT system, no matter what, has to deal with physical inertia of moving mechanical devices whereas this handicap does not apply to digital sources (ie CD, Computer Harddrives, USB memory sticks, etc) at all.

... just to name a few.


As for LPs being superior to CDs, it is not always the case. Do not expect mid-priced TT system to go head to head with a dCS Transport/Clock/DAC combo, nor a Top-end Meridian or Wadia rig for that matter.

Furthermore, it is very hard to compare like-with-like between a CD and an LP of the same recording because the mastering processes at the Studio take very divergent paths from the same source.

Furthermore, alot of modern recordings are recorded directly onto a Digital medium (albeit not at 16bit/44.1KHz but at much higher resolution 24 or even 32bit and 192KHz sampling). Any LPs produced from these sources would have undergone a D/A conversion already. This goes to show that there is nothing inherently wrong with the digital medium per se, but more so the limitations of the orignal Redbook format and off-the-mill consumer hifi CD playback rigs.


bottomline, don't write off the digital medium just yet as being totally inferior to the LP format.


BTW, where did that "700bits" come from ? There are no "bits" to speak of in an analogue medium. The person who originally wrote this probably betrayed his/her lack of understanding of electrical signals in the analog vs digital medium in the first place.

mugen,
I took that off from somewhere.. Part of it anyway. There is a part where analogue namely tt is severely critisized.. I do not want to start a 'war' hence the exclusions. Since it's a tt thread I just put the 'good' part of it.Make you feel good, isn't it?

There are always two sides of a coin. Every strength there are weaknesses too. Your points are valid of course and it's nothing new. The arguments on vinyls vs cds has been going on for ages.. probably older than your age?

As much as a tt lover, I too enjoy my CDs. Convenience(can't really play vinyl in the car isn't it?), also for it's sonic performance without costing an arm an a leg to it's analogue equivalent. But at the end of the day, for most satisfaction, we play the vinyls..(some of us anyway)

You should know that we're aware the analogue limitations, tt included. The 'flaws' the you mentioned that we are well aware, is what make vinyl/tt the format we love so much, not as flaws per se but built-in 'features' that we accepted and love that make a tt, a tt! If a tt is so much perfect, it wouldn't be a tt!.. I think you fail to 'see' that part of the argument.. I thank you for the refresher/re-education...

p/s for that 700 bits thingy,it is from my comprehension what the writer meant is that to capture the whole sonic resolution of the vinyl format it will require an equivalent of 700 bit processing. I am sure he is well aware the difference between analogue and digital processing as much as you do!
Of course there is no 'bit' in analogue system, I am sure everyone will know this by now..

Ahhh.. spoken like a true marketeer.... re-label the "flaws/shortcomings" as "features" instead!

Well, think of my retort as a counter-balance to the potential trap of worshipping TT/Vinyl as the be-all, end-all of all audio formats.

digressing abit for an example:
Amongst others, Reel tapes suffer a problem called "Print-Through" when
they are stored for too long in which one layer of the tape magnetizes
the overlapping layer etc etc. Also not forgetting the weaknesses of a
magnetic medium esp in tropical climates where mr. Fungus pays a visit too easily.

Back to the digital vs analog formats:

SACD being one of them. And the advent of cheap and abundant digital
storage medium + processing power also means that high-res and hi-Q
digital formats that are one the exclusive domain of professional
recording engineers are quickly becoming standard in consumer homes.


Re. that 700bit example,
Good that u mentioned it further. I found that "700bit" example really silly. There has been no survey, study or an aorta of research done whatsoever to substantiate whether 700bits (or 70, or 7000 or 70,000 bits) would be representative of an LP's "resolution".

The whole point is that one should not be so blindly adherent to one particular format. Even the analog reel-tapes are not foolproof although almost all LPs and CDs ultimately were borne of it before the advent of digital storage in recording studios.

For me, i just play vinyl for many a reason:
- Nostalgia. Alot of vintage albums that are just not avail. on CD, or why bother getting the CD when i got the vinyl, provided it's in excellent condition.
- The effort & novelty of it. It's fun, u have more control over how it sounds as opposed to the "instant-gratification" of CDs & today's children of Playstations/X-Boxes/Wii's.
- It has its own sonic appeal. But as to whether it's more accurate to the real thing or not is highly subjective. What sounds pleasant to the ear may not neccessarily mean its a more faithful reproduction of the original source.

My reasons for vinyl is mainly the sound.

Having grown up on CDs, I find the sound of vinyl to be superior. Maybe not accurate or even clear, but its the most close (in my opinion) to a 'live' sound. I think its the P.R.A.T. The turntable does this way better than CDs. The sound of an electric guitar on vinyl is much-much better than the sound in CD. Actually most instruments sound better, sound more 'live'. And I'm talking about a mid-range setup comparison. However, it could also be that my ears rosak already because of too much gigging and the vinyl sound is more forgiving to them.

To each his/her own I say!

Hi All
Yes, even though my turntable has the standard rca leads, its still sounds amazing, the vinyl sound is awesome.

I have a Techncis SL-5210 turntable, with Nagaoka MP11 cart on it.

WongKN wrote: The P24 is perhaps comparable to the entry level Clearaudios (this is just my honest opinion so anyone who disagrees have your own valid point of view).

Again, much better than the P24 but still nowhere near say, the Goldmund Studio or the higher end Clearaudios.

Hi, I need your advise. Would upgrading my Rega RB300 tonearm internal wiring help to improve the sound significantly? Need your recomendation of the shops selling good tonearm cables and the cost.

I have a P2 with my trustee RB300 (STOCK wiring), Dynavector 10x5, upgraded arcrylic platter with record clamp (from Asia Sound) with Marantz PM17 (set in MM mode).

My TT was properly leveled, I got the cart set at 1.75g using Shure's tracking force gauge (see saw type), tonearm leveled and VTA leveled.

With my TT setup, I can say that the sound sonincally it still losses to the sound of my CD player. Very noticable when I played the Black Eye Pea's Boom Boom Pow LP and cd.

Thanks.

Larr

larren wrote:
Hi, I need your advise. Would upgrading my Rega RB300 tonearm internal wiring help to improve the sound significantly? Need your recomendation of the shops selling good tonearm cables and the cost.

Look to Ebay UK where there's rewiring kits for Rega arm. I don't think there's similar or complete Rega wiring kits found here locally. Unless you've experience in partial dismantling of the arm for rewiring, please do not do it yourself as you may wreck it instead. The complexity lies with removing some rubber bush and partial dismantling to thread the fine wires through the tube and down the vertical column. Its not exactly as simple as changing a cable for a peripheral inside the PC. I believe there's some discussion to be found on rewiring the arm on the internet.
BTW, perhaps you should look to a better quality external phono stage for a possible lift in performance instead. If not mistaken, Marantz integrated amp phono is anything but basic and to suffice phono requirement.

Frankie Voon of Pipit fame has extensive experiences in rewiring RB300 arms. No harm giving him a call since he's very chatty and enthusiastic about such DIY jobs.

larren wrote:

With my TT setup, I can say that the sound sonincally it still losses to the sound of my CD player. Very noticable when I played the Black Eye Pea's Boom Boom Pow LP and cd.

Larr

Larr,

Wow. Your setup sounds pretty good la. Even with the basic phono on the Marantz. What, in terms of sound, does the vinyl lose out to the CD? Bass? Highs? Lows? Soundstage?

A quick google on the PM17 reveals some problems with its phono:

http://www.talkaudio.co.uk/vbb/archive/index.php/t-143492.html

There have been trouble with it by other owners, so cmboy's advice on an external phono would be best. Try testing with a friends phono box for comparison...if there's not much difference then something else needs tweaking in your analog chain...

Not to pour cold water, nor make things more complicated, some external or internal budget phono stages are somewhat low gain due to compromise, a little tweak in the circuitry to increase the gain (unless you know the circuitry or play by ear) may make the music a little more dynamic (lets disregard possible technical drawbacks).
Another workaround is having a higher than norm high output MM cartridge. Higher output cartridges may offer a thicker and more dynamic sound. Having said this, I'm just generalizing, may be a touch or miss affair. Some own experimenting and mucking aroun this department may yield benefit.

a TT rig is definitely harder to get it to work properly. But once it does, CD players would be overall inferior to a properly set up LP system.

If benchmarking best on best, it would probably take a RM20K CD player system (transport & DAC) to be able to "come close" to a RM10K (or maybe even RM6~7K) TT system. IMO.

The biggest advantage of CD players is the "works right out of the box" plus point. No fuss, no hassle on settings & alignments.

kamen555 wrote:

larren wrote:

With my TT setup, I can say that the sound sonincally it still losses to the sound of my CD player. Very noticable when I played the Black Eye Pea's Boom Boom Pow LP and cd.

Larr

Larr,

Wow. Your setup sounds pretty good la. Even with the basic phono on the Marantz. What, in terms of sound, does the vinyl lose out to the CD? Bass? Highs? Lows? Soundstage?

A quick google on the PM17 reveals some problems with its phono:

http://www.talkaudio.co.uk/vbb/archive/index.php/t-143492.html

There have been trouble with it by other owners, so cmboy's advice on an external phono would be best. Try testing with a friends phono box for comparison...if there's not much difference then something else needs tweaking in your analog chain...

If I were to compare say the Cambridge Audio 640C phono stage and this Marantz PM17 phono, the more elaborate and near dual mono circuitry of the CA (only its supplied wall wart seems to be its Achilles Heel) have the ability to better the PM17 phono hands down. As I said earlier, most modern budget to mid end integrated amps with phono stage are just so-so and suffice vinyl playback needs. Lucky the PM17 have MC whereas so many others are only for MM cartridge. I'm back up my opinion after some research of both the circuitry in question. I suggested the CA to one forumer here, he bought it from across the causeway, I assume he's very happy with it.
No, I'm not associated with CA nor dealing with them.

Thank you guys for your reply.

[quote="cmboy"]

larren wrote:

BTW, perhaps you should look to
a better quality external phono stage for a possible lift in
performance instead. If not mistaken, Marantz integrated amp phono is
anything but basic and to suffice phono requirement.

What do you think of Canbridge Audio's Azur 540p Phono Amp?

mugenfoo wrote:Frankie Voon of Pipit fame has extensive experiences in rewiring RB300 arms. No harm giving him a call since he's very chatty and enthusiastic about such DIY jobs.

I will definately give him a call soon.

kamen555 wrote:

Wow. Your setup sounds pretty good la. Even with the basic phono on the Marantz. What, in terms of sound, does the vinyl lose out to the CD? Bass? Highs? Lows? Soundstage?

I am not sure here. I do not have other equipment (amp / phono stage) to compare with. Could be the recording.

larren wrote:

I am not sure here. I do not have other equipment (amp / phono stage) to compare with. Could be the recording.

Larr,

I don't think it is the recording, since you heard a difference between the CD and the vinyl. Unless of course the vinyl is really warped or you poured bleach on it or you brushed it with a berus besi kuali (which happens to some of us...trust me...). The difference in quality should just be some minor crackle and pops of static on the vinyl. If its new there should be almost no difference.

Personaly I think its the phono stage of the PM17. You can either lug the amp to you firendly neighborhood hifi shop and test other phono boxes available there or if your friendly neighborhood hifi shop can lend you a small cheap Pro-ject phono box that they have. Plug it into one of the Aux line of the amp and do a comparison with your CD player.

This is just a precaution before you do a rewire of the RB300. It's a good idea to rewire the thing, Im sure it'll upgrade the sound, but it's also good to make sure what is wrong first before spending more money.