Turntable lovers - Please Gather Here!

CA540P is the slimmed down version of 640P without MC stage. If you plan to stay with MM cartridge, then this is quite suitable.
Tong Lee at Low Yat Plaza stock Pro-Ject range of phono stuff, some models with tube circuitry. Check them out and its entirely your call as price may be a primary concern.

Hi all,

I have a Rotel RQ970 phono stage and have now been bitten by the upgrade bug...I read somewhere that the Frank Pipit phono stage is pretty good for the money and would like to know how I might be able to contact/locate the guy...any ideas, anybody?

Failing which, any recommendations on phono stages? Or I might modify the Rotel by changing the op amps, resistors and capacitors. Any ideas?

Ah.. The Rotel.
After a test session, I conclude that the Pipit can easily betters the Rotel.
That's my friend's Pipit I mk2 though.
He brought it over to poison me.

Now, Pipit I & II are no longer in production.
But I think Frank has one or two units of the Pipit II left.
Quick quick grab yours.
Or else you have to save up for the upcoming Reference model.

Gosh.. Where did I put his contact?
Dont worry.. Someone here will be able to help.

Hahaha !

The ori rotel phono inside got black gates oledi lor. Not much could be improve on by very big margin.


Wait till u listen thru the pipit reference and the reference special edition, your jaws may drop some more.

Yes, but have to leave the Rotel on most of the time cos the black gates don't work very well otherwise.

Another problem with the Rotel is the low gain on both stages, which is a bummer playing thru my 2.5 watt SET amp. Would the Pipits have more gain than the Rotel? Or is that just a dumb question..

Anybody here tried comparing the Pipit with Adrian's home brew phono stage?

If not mistaken earlier batches of Rotel had BG's. Later ones with Panasonic FC's. Yes, the overall gain is on the low side. There is some room for some beneficial mods. Its a matter of understanding the circuitry (since its opamp based circuitry), making slight alterations and opamp chip change for better or worse, its entirely your own conclusion in the aftermath. IMHO, its inherent low output/gain (as designed or intended) is probably its main flaw or weakness. The designers must have had a reason.
BTW, I remember Rotel had a much better model (perhaps long discontinued) under its "Michi" series. Its the Rotel RHQ-10, entirely different animal altogether with dual mono discrete transistor circuitry. I hope I can try this unit one fine day.

The probable complains about the low gain of the rotel phono is probably because the owner had switched between playing vinyls and CDs and found the CD playback much louder than the phonostage which have to be cranked up to equal the same playback loudness. Yes, no?


Some modifications can bring the phono gain up to equal the CD playback. But is it really necessary? Just because it really irritates the user, when switch between the 2 kind of playback system?!

Cartridges are not entirely equal in its output so there may be one area to see dissatisfaction. Vinyl LP music also widely varied in volume levels, much like various cd albums of various pressings So if someone play a thin and low volume LP, with a low output cartridge, patched to a lower gain phono, one have to crank up the volume more. Similarly, many XRCD's seem to be encoded with higher music volume and if anyone is so used or familiar with the dynamics of that cd, one may often perceive LP playback as much lower in gain at the source.
I've compared between the budget Shure M44/M55 cartridge and say another budget Audio Technica AT91, the Shure may thump out heavier bass and increased dynamics which just about anyone can roughly recognize in an A-B comparison. No need for golden ears here.
Having said all these, modding a phono to higher gain may incur pros and cons. If anyone ain't fussy, leave the phono stage alone and look to other more expensive or better ones.

My question answered. tq

larren wrote:
With my TT setup, I can say that the sound sonincally it still losses to the sound of my CD player. Very noticable when I played the Black Eye Pea's Boom Boom Pow LP and cd.

Thanks.

Larr

Maybe is the personnel sound preference. I put back the P3 glass platter and guess what.....my TT sound same as or close to my cd (Marantz 5000) player but with better bass this time.

With the tracking reset to 1.8g and many times switching between the glass platter and the acrylic platter, I still prefer the sound of the glass platter.

As I said....personnel sound preference and not saying the acrylic sound no good. I listen to pop songs/musics more. Now my acrylic platter is for sale. Here is the link:-
http://www.hifi4sale.net/audio-video-equipment-for-sale-f1/acrylic-platter-for-rega-used-t5811.htm

Anyone interested are wellcome to come over and audition the sound. I stay in Rawang. I can give good deal.

p/s: I am not an expert with sound but just a casual listener.

Larr.

atoz wrote:Hi all turntable sifu'
How much and where i can buy a used or cheap entry level cartridge for my Marlux mx86 player?
I have problem to make it play without the cartridge thats why
i am selling it, and few interested buyers also ask me the same question.
Please help!

Hi,

I did called up Music By Design last week which islocated in 1st Floor, Block J, Jaya One commercial building in Petaling Jaya. They have range of Grado's cart starting at RM180.

Larr

Larren: Did you use back the mat when playing or doing the comparison? Like me, I always have the mat on either. I now use the color mat which can be bought seperately from Asia Sound. Color mat is better quality than the stock black mat.

cmboy wrote:Larren: Did you use back the mat when playing or doing the comparison? Like me, I always have the mat on either. I now use the color mat which can be bought seperately from Asia Sound. Color mat is better quality than the stock black mat.

As recomended, I do not use mat on the acrylic platter. Kinda troublesome to readjust the VTA with mat on the acrylic platter. My tonearm is RB300.

I just got the color mat early this week. Not cheap. You are right about the color mat. It does sound better. Please correct me if I am wrong. The color mat does have better stereo effect.

Larr

Personally I've prefered the sound with the use of the mat on acrylic platter. This is my conclusion after numerous trials.
Yes, I've heard that its somewhat suggested by others not to use mat with the acrylic platter, but then I've made my choice.
The color mat is of a better material and perhaps better damping qualities than the stock. I also use the same product on another TT rig permanently. No regrets here.

I do not have a P3 but I have used a Rega felt mat on my Lenco. Comparing that with a rubber mat, I found that while the felt mat was a touch smoother, it was nevertheless less detailed and focused than the rubber mat that came with the Lenco.

I then went to a shop and bought another rubber mat second hand after the owner told me that of all the mats he's tried, rubber is still the best. The reason why they don't produce rubber mats for TTs anymore is because they're much more expensive to make than felt mats, becos with felt you will only have to cut it to size and punch a hole in the middle of it. Rubber is much harder to work with.

I guess there might be some truth in what he is saying, since he was also stocking brand new felt mats at his shop but instead advised me to get the 2nd hand rubber mat for cheaper. My ears also tell me the same thing....hmmmm

I believe Technics do still produce rubber mats for their remaining SL1200 TT's. Today, the Mat on TT is becoming a factor in the quest for better sound. In the heydays of TT, hardly anyone spoke or tried swapping around mats. Its perhaps there's now a choice of various mats available and that include vintage used ones from disused TT's. I've seen 30 year old Rega, Linns, Thorens, Lenco, Garrard still with their original stock mats (although some look worn or aged) and I can safely assume their owners, past or current take the mat for granted and play as intended to be.
Lastly I think Lenco is best mated with its original heavy mat which adds to the platter mass. Anything less than that will compromise the sound. Bear in mind that Rega design started off as a simple straightforward plug n play no nonsense budget TT. The core design is still much evident in its latest range. Lenco is another animal altogether.
I presume you have the Lenco L75 or slightly variant.

Yes the L75.... but took out the stock arm cos could not get my cart to track properly with it. Plus it isnt very good. I followed the threads at Lenco Heaven and was actually quite amazed at how it can sound...but have to put a lot of work into it lerrr.

Well, the Lenco platter is already very heavy in its own right so my guess is that rubber may have superior damping qualities. I have read of some people in the past even trying the ringmat (rubber) on LP12 to good effect.

But at the end of the day its a matter of preference I guess....No one mat is better

jcwlow wrote:Well, the Lenco platter is already very heavy in its own right so my guess is that rubber may have superior damping qualities. I have read of some people in the past even trying the ringmat (rubber) on LP12 to good effect.
But at the end of the day its a matter of preference I guess....No one mat is better

I've never liked any other material (cork, rubber, paper based, whatever) other than close to what Linn intended for its LP12. Metal platters ring to some degree and the mat serves 2 primary purpose, damp the platter and better coupling to the LP media. I think its unwise to play an LP on a LP12 or vintage Thorens without any mat. I'm happy to live with some compromise like this mat which can never lay claim to be the best and best for every piece of LP I play. As long as my ears and brain perceive the sound reproduction is of high quality by own reasoning and personal satisfaction, I remain happy like that. I'll ask for more should I come across something very convincing in future and worth the investment. Ringmat?... its quite a pricy accessory, which I'd prefer considering another nice make of MM/MC cartridge instead.
Anyway, everyone is entitled to choose what best of ownself. No stiff rules here.

Yes, Im sure Linn intended that felt be used on its platter rather than anything else....after all, if they felt otherwise, they would have done something about it after all these years....Its a known fact that felt
is an excellent sound insulator and has very good vibration damping qualities. I once tried felt around the tweeter of my Dynaco speakers and it actually helped control the lower-mid treble frequencies a bit....I think LS3/5As have them around their tweeters too...

rubber mats aren't cut to shape, but rather molded to shape.

The manufacturing facilities required to make rubber mats are definitely more expensive than to make felt mats. And since TTs don't have the same mass market volume (compared to what a factory would manufacture today, for example iPods...).

Recently acquired a Rega "just for fun" , the stupid felt-mat isn't even round but rather "oval".

jcwlow wrote:I do not have a P3 but I have used a Rega felt mat on my Lenco. Comparing that with a rubber mat, I found that while the felt mat was a touch smoother, it was nevertheless less detailed and focused than the rubber mat that came with the Lenco.

I then went to a shop and bought another rubber mat second hand after the owner told me that of all the mats he's tried, rubber is still the best. The reason why they don't produce rubber mats for TTs anymore is because they're much more expensive to make than felt mats, becos with felt you will only have to cut it to size and punch a hole in the middle of it. Rubber is much harder to work with.

I guess there might be some truth in what he is saying, since he was also stocking brand new felt mats at his shop but instead advised me to get the 2nd hand rubber mat for cheaper. My ears also tell me the same thing....hmmmm

mugen...

Finally, you purchased a REGA . What model ?

Never discount the possibilites. Enjoy and do give your feedback.

As I have a P2 and enjoying every moment until the itch comes to upgrade.... .

cheers

The Rega plastic composite subplatter itself for P5 and below is not perfectly round either and the main cause of a Rega spinning slightly faster than 33rpm. Of course there's the costly (after currency conversion + shipping) 3rd party precision machined subplatter for sale on the internet which the premium model specifications exceed the one in the P9 and could likely guarantee user satisfaction.

P2 also lah .. from a fellow super active forummer here.
This unit was suppose to be bought for someone else, but I dunno yet ... coz as part of a "2 step LP cleaning" procedure, it serves its purpose.
Step 1 being putting the LP through the scrub-n-suck washing machine, then step 2 is actual playback with a real stylus to dig out all the remaining dirt from the grooves.

Condition-wise, the P2 is in immaculate condition save for a few light scratches on the dustcover under bright light. And maybe a slackened belt but who cares, the platter still gets up to speed. Or in its case, over-speed. Like any other Rega from p1 to to the p10,000.

This is one seriously borderline case Turntable. Maybe just below the treshold of sonically acceptable vinyl playback. So I just attached an equally low-fi cartridge; a Sony XL-20 from like 5 centuries ago (in Internet-era terms).

Everything about the P2 can be summarised as this:
" Its cheap, its nasty, it does the job !! "

Definitely better than those Plasticky "Soundstage" Brand turntables that Tong Lee is selling.

But seriously, on a P2 rig, its very hard to really unleash the true sonic merits of vinyl. Honest to God opinion here. I don't blame people for saying their CD players sound better when compared to a P1 or P2 class kind of setup.

wingman wrote:mugen...

Finally, you purchased a REGA . What model ?

Never discount the possibilites. Enjoy and do give your feedback.

As I have a P2 and enjoying every moment until the itch comes to upgrade.... .

cheers

Hi,

I also got a P2 early this year but without arm (RB251) to replace my 11 year old Planer 2. I notice the P2 plinth is lighter. You can see the P2 on/off switch wire route from below the table unlike Planer 2. The Planer 2 on/off switch wire route is totally consealed in the plinth.

I use P3's glass platter on my P2. The sound is sonically brighter and better as compare to the P2's woody platter when compare side by side.

Larr

[quote=\"mugenfoo\"]
But seriously, on a P2 rig, its very hard to really unleash the true sonic merits of vinyl. Honest to God opinion here. I don\'t blame people for saying their CD players sound better when compared to a P1 or P2 class kind of setup.

cheers [/quote][/quote]

Read somewhere a reviewer (either Art Dudley or Michael Fremer) saying something like \' .. the best thing for a digital set up owner to do is never to listen to an analog system\'.. Dang... Last after being caught in the downpour in PJ, detour to Amcorp Mall.. I did the inevitable by listening to a simple and quick set up comprising a P3/Rotel Integrated (small bottom line model/Paradigm bookshelf spkrs (again bottom line model) and left me grinning widely from ear to ear.. . You know there\'s something intrinsically right when you listen to the \'thwack\' of the tom-tom / drum and the \'righteousness\' of Dave Brubeck\'s alto sax sound and your toes started to tap..

What turns me off tt yonks ago was the setting up of tt and the clicks and pops off vinyl which converted me to digitized music when it came out in the early 80s. . Just plonk in the silver disc and voila, out comes the \'fine\' music (to my ears then). Hey, even if the baju \'smells\' ok, it\'s a done deal, no need laundry or ironing . Remembered even \'convinced\' a med student (now a successful doctor in town) to buy a CDP and abandoned his Rega planar (I think).. Hey, I still have the Wham CD bought in 83 from Frankston JBHifi in Melbourne (now a listed hifi chain Downunder) and still can plonk it in without any cleaning or treatment and still blissfully play on..

What impressed me last night was how simple and relatively straightforward the P3 was set up from display window to the system which was demonstrated by Mr Michael Lim, a real gentlemen and a really enthusiastic person of his trade (Turntable Specialist\' sez on his Asia Sound namecard). Stayed up till 2am going through this same thread last night.. To cut as story short, will be having another date with Mr Lim soon to hear maybe a P5 or P7 setup... BTW also saw a couple of Linnies LP12 being refurbished at a neighbouring shop..

Would be good to hear input from mugenfoo on the P2..

The saving grace is my current CDP system will still survive for a while yet... until ...

zeebee

I believe the P2 have some major differences from its predecessor Planar 2. The old Planar 2 also had a glass platter, albeit a couple of mm thinner but shared the same bearing as the P3. Rega used common parts for some of its models at that time, but not entirely now.
The current P2 have some radical changes that ensure its a rank below P3 and cannot be fully upgraded to P3 performance in every respect. This is because they now use a smaller diameter bearing assembly. Go take a peek underneath the P3 and P2 and you'd know what I mean. The plinth is also different. P2 uses the 110V motor whereas P3 have the 24V AC motor. Older P3 and Planar 3 had 110V motor, so the new P3-24 controller can't be implemented. Its clear that if anyone wants P3 quality and performance, go buy a P3 outright.

Any body have been using the pipit phono stage. The RM1700 model compare to its ref RM3500. TQ

Hi mugen....

Thanks for being upfront. Sure meets your cleaning needs. Question; for a TT greenhorn, like myself , what would be the next turntable brand that would be worth upgrading too or go for used TT's (Ex. Thorens ???) or upgrade platter / sub platter ?

Zeebee....

I too listened to the same setup as you did. ( weighing the options ) But this time Michael auditioned the glass and acrylic platter with the "record Puck" on a P3.

Two versions of the P3 available;

1. External power supply unit - which is pricey pricey pricey
2. Inbuilt power supply but with option to go with external power supply. ( if you so deisre )

The glass was downright sharp, where else the acrylic was heavy and even. Long listening, i would go for the acrylic.

Don't get the Woody platter ( compressed wood ) sounds horrid.

Hmmmmm.. .should get Mike to do a similar demo on a P2 and hear the difference.

cheers

Bring your own Lp's which you like a lot and familiar with to gauge the sound.

Also understand that Asia sound would be releasing a non plastic subplatter similar to the >= P5 and a better counter weight similar to the P3.

cheers

CM....

Will do when I go over next to audition the P2, which Mike gladly agreed.

Thanks.

Cheers

wingman wrote:Also understand that Asia sound would be releasing a non plastic subplatter similar to the >= P5 and a better counter weight similar to the P3.
cheers

I hope to see something of really high quality in that department. Those items especially the subplatter is quite critical to the performance and I've closely seen one sample of possibly the very best subplatter made by a 3rd party for the Rega. I believe there's only a few 3rd party counterweights that have good opinions from buyers all over, that is from Origin Live or Michell. Any others resembling the standard counterweight as a swap may not yield significant benefit. (based on my own trials and experiments)
Rega P3 is a suitable base model for available 3rd party parts with the hope of lifting the performance. But then again, the cost of these items can be a primary concern. Like some could think, might as well plonk the money and buy the P5, better still P7 or P9, or look elsewhere if expectations are exceptionally high.
My 2 sen (not insisting you trust my word).

Just to share with you guys. I have replaced the 3 original rubber feet with the stainless steel cone feet which I got from ATS. I kinda like the way my P2 sound now. Bass is excellent now.

They will also increase the height plinth a little as the main bearing support almost touching or very close to the shelf with rubber feet.

wingman wrote:Also understand that Asia sound would be releasing a non plastic subplatter similar to the >= P5.

cheers

This would be in my next upgrade. I hope it fits the P2.

There's all sorts you can do to tweak the Rega feet to your own liking. It can be for better or worse, nevertheless fun to tweak here n there. I use Vibracones with good results, 4 of them instead of 3, finally some bluetac to adhere them to the base. Vibracone is with a ball bearing like at the apex, not a sharp point.

BTW, if your Rega is new and under warranty, fitting of non sanctioned 3rd party replacement can void your warranty, unless Asia Sound accept full responsibility for the parts they sell. I'm concerned about the subplatter bearing tolerances. Turntable bearings are of high precision tolerances and premature or undue wear is not a nice issue to tackle.

larren....

It would be a direct replacement for the plastic sub-platter models.

Larren / CM

What's the price of the feets ?? You can PM me if its too ......

Cheers

You can look to Vibrapods website for the price. Think I saw them at Tong Lee and unsure what price they're selling. I bought a large batch of them online long ago and now used in various places.

cmboy wrote:I use Vibracones with good results, 4 of them instead of 3, finally some bluetac to adhere them to the base. Vibracone is with a ball bearing like at the apex, not a sharp point.

I did inquire about vibrapods before I got the cones at the dealer which is also located at Amcorp but they were out of stock.

cmboy wrote:BTW, if your Rega is new and under warranty, fitting of non sanctioned 3rd party replacement can void your warranty, unless Asia Sound accept full responsibility for the parts they sell.

Hey thanks for the advise. I did not think of that. Warranty may be voided but I really like the sound with the cones. So solid now.

wingman wrote:larren....

It would be a direct replacement for the plastic sub-platter models.

That's a good news. They told me the sub-platter would be ready before end of this month.

wingman wrote:
Larren / CM

What's the price of the feets ?? You can PM me if its too ......

Cheers

PMed you.

So far I've heard here n there, Rega owners seem to find better results when swapping the ori feet for something else and tweaking it to their satisfaction. I think the old Rega models had feet which are too rigid or hard. The later P series (succeeding the Planars) were outfitted with entirely new designed feet and certainly more supple rubber. Of course there's just as many owners who're quite satisfied as is.

Larren....

Swap back to the ori part if there is a warranty claim.....one option.... .

cheers

wingman wrote:Larren....
Swap back to the ori part if there is a warranty claim.....one option.... .
cheers

Yep, like I constantly use Filton airfilter (RM13) on daily use, then when send the car to Perodua Service center, I put back the Ori air filter (RM45?). Non ori parts can void warranty you realize?

Depends on your kind of music.
If u like vocals and lots of mellowy stuff, a Nottingham spacedek could be to your liking. Or perhaps a Roksan Radius 5 or even a Roksan Xerxes would be good also.

If u like can pay a premium for german engineering, Clearaudio is probably the most accurate sounding TT out there within sane prices. Just ask what is the famous veteran reviewer from The Star Audiofile using in his own system.

For an all-rounder, not too clinical, not too warm and over-fuzzy, can try some of Pro-Ject's funny looking (teardrop shaped base/plinth) RPM-series turntables.

Linn LP12s are good + an abundance of mods to keep you busy for the next 5 years, but its just too damn overpriced and over hyped these days. People are asking for ridiculous prices on the s/hand mkt. And there are many modern TTs out there that would whoop it good in the ass any-time, any-day easily without breaking the bank.

Thorens, haven't quite heard a modern one lately, but their reputation in the industry is impeccable. No one really says that Thorens makes crappy TTs.
Maybe the local agent is not very focused in promoting this brand. But there is an abundance of old Thorens going around in the used market and they make for excellent restoration projects.

Remember to save some budget for a good cartridge as well...
Vocals, go with Grados, it really has that certain sweetness to it. But loses top end detailing and bass dynamics.

Shures ... if u can buy them, very good all-rounder and an excellent tracker.


If u feel the need to pamper yourself, try a Benz-Micro or a Clearaudio. For the money u pay, damn good performance! But make sure u know how to set it up right. They are really precise and accurate to the point of being very intolerant of poor alignment jobs.

Oh, and did i mention just how important a good Phono stage is ?
Avoid those small matchbox phono crap like the NAD PP-whatever, Pro-Ject phonobox, even the Rotel one is quite crappy. Not sure about the Cambridge Audio series.

DISCLAMER:
Everything above is just IMO only. No solid evidence to back any of it up.
Believe what u want or not.

wingman wrote:Hi mugen....

Thanks for being upfront. Sure meets your cleaning needs. Question; for a TT greenhorn, like myself , what would be the next turntable brand that would be worth upgrading too or go for used TT's (Ex. Thorens ???) or upgrade platter / sub platter ?

cmboy wrote:So far I've heard here n there, Rega owners seem to find better results when swapping the ori feet for something else and tweaking it to their satisfaction. I think the old Rega models had feet which are too rigid or hard. The later P series (succeeding the Planars) were outfitted with entirely new designed feet and certainly more supple rubber. Of course there's just as many owners who're quite satisfied as is.

Does the P2 and the P3 share the same plinth material ?

Mugen.....

Thanks. No worries about the disclaimer.....will never put a "knife" to your throat...i believe in getting views and that helps me to make a informed decision / judgement.

Traded in my Rega Mini for the Cambridge 640 and its a keeper ( for me ) and after a period of warming up ( 20 minutes before - its a ritual ) it sure is good to listen to the Lp's .


cheers

Possibly same composite material content but visibly not the same mass and thickness. I could believe the new P3-24 hi-gloss finish could contribute or have some bearing on giving some edge to the overall sonics. (no hard evidence to back this up either).
Nevertheless, Im with confidence that the latest plinth composite material is a vast improvement in being most rigid, less resonant and best quality of the day compared to past Planar models. All these changes in tandem with technology of the day will certainly affect the SQ to some degree.

cmboy wrote:So far I've heard here n there, Rega owners seem to find better results when swapping the ori feet for something else and tweaking it to their satisfaction....

I can attest to this. I swapped my Rega feet with a combination of Vibropod + Vibrocones. Mainly it strengthened the bass by about 60%. I used to have to adjust the bass knob of my integrated to get the 'live' thump of the drum & bass. Now everything is at '0' and I'm still feeling the real music coming through... Vinyl man, the best way to get the real feel of music...

kamen555 wrote:
I can attest to this. I swapped my Rega feet with a combination of Vibropod + Vibrocones. Mainly it strengthened the bass by about 60%.

All these tweaks to your own rig maybe unique to your own system in varying degrees, and doesn't neccessary work across the board for others having similar TT make. There maybe always some other factors or reasons that may enhance greatly, impede the performance, or even degrade the overall results. Like I said, its perhaps I've heard more satisfying opinions replacing or tweaking those Rega feet with something else.

cmboy wrote:

All these tweaks to your own rig maybe unique to your own system in varying degrees, and doesn't neccessary work across the board for others having similar TT make.

Uhh...okay.

Just adding my voice to the many who have tweaked the stock Rega turntable feet and have found the results to be an improved sound. Not a recommendation of any sort mind you.

I'll add that if you've bought your Rega new, then don't change anything until the warranty has run out. If you feel the tweakalitis is hard on you even with a new Rega, then change things that do not involve any modification on the TT itself. For example: the material on which the Rega sits on (marble, solid wood, plexi-glass, mix of vibropods n plexi-glass, etc.), a new platter (ceramic), or build your own spec phono-stage, or get a really good cartridge, something like that la...