Isolation platform and such devices

If there is a thread on this subject, kindly re-direct me.

Been playing with isolation tweaks for a while, both DIY and budget commercial products ( less RM100) but cant say there has been an appreciable improvement in the sound until just. I placed my CD player on a 15mm piece of glass and placed four 30mm circular rubber foam pads under the glass as isolation feet (relatively high density). The improvement was remarkable...bass taut and open and airy sound and more importantly the music became more coherent. Re-visited some old reference discs and the presentation is very different, like listening to a new system and soooo.....enjoyable.

Sadly, the rubber pads compress under the weight of the heavier CDP's and the tweak loses its effect.

The above tweak did nothing much for the turntable!

Questions: Has anyone DIY'ed a good isolation tweak for source components?

What products in the market are worth considering? That includes platforms, feet etc.

If possible please indicate its strengths and weaknesses i.e reliability and impact on sound.

Whats a good isolation device for the turntable?

Thanks, look forward to feedback and Selamat Hari Raya to our Muslim brothers & sisters out there.

sanguine wrote:If there is a thread on this subject, kindly re-direct me.

Been playing with isolation tweaks for a while, both DIY and budget commercial products ( less RM100) but cant say there has been an appreciable improvement in the sound until just. I placed my CD player on a 15mm piece of glass and placed four 30mm circular rubber foam pads under the glass as isolation feet (relatively high density). The improvement was remarkable...bass taut and open and airy sound and more importantly the music became more coherent. Re-visited some old reference discs and the presentation is very different, like listening to a new system and soooo.....enjoyable.

Sadly, the rubber pads compress under the weight of the heavier CDP's and the tweak loses its effect.

The above tweak did nothing much for the turntable!

Questions: Has anyone DIY'ed a good isolation tweak for source components?

What products in the market are worth considering? That includes platforms, feet etc.

If possible please indicate its strengths and weaknesses i.e reliability and impact on sound.

Whats a good isolation device for the turntable?

Thanks, look forward to feedback and Selamat Hari Raya to our Muslim brothers & sisters out there.

Try 3 nos. golf balls instead! Rotate them every week when they flattened at contact points.

I thought its squash balls.
Just recently fabricated a custom stand for my TT, powder coated and all, errr.. custom for my own TT make, may not sound good with other TT brand.. 2 sen.

cmboy wrote:I thought its squash balls.
Just recently fabricated a custom stand for my TT, powder coated and all, errr.. custom for my own TT make, may not sound good with other TT brand.. 2 sen.

Anything that is round and can roll will do.

Some have even used bicycle tube inflated to various hardness, chinese tea cups, chinese checkers ( wooden pucks ) and sand filled throughs as isolation supports and many many more...
Have fun!
Regards,
Sivaguru

I dunno about others lah, I feel squash balls is a better bet. Golf balls have a hard outer skin. Just my personal view since many kaki I know happen to use squash balls rather than golf ball. But its true many people experiment with all sorts of things they can think of. But I've settled with Vibrapods, since I've a stack of them lying around, might as well be used.

one of the best tweaks i tried was to use pumice sponge blocks. place them beneath the feet of turntables, cd players, etc. they work very well.
pumice blocks are used for scraping dead skin off our toes or fingers. you can find them in watson's or pharmacies.
if they don't work for you, at least you will have smooth skin

Good one !

sflam wrote:
if they don't work for you, at least you will have smooth skin

sflam wrote:one of the best tweaks i tried was to use pumice sponge blocks. place them beneath the feet of turntables, cd players, etc. they work very well.
pumice blocks are used for scraping dead skin off our toes or fingers. you can find them in watson's or pharmacies.
if they don't work for you, at least you will have smooth skin

I read at tnt-audio that they use this tweak as well. And since it;s kinda cheap, it;s worth a try. The only thing is they seem to be rather out of place

My gear is placed into a glass candle holder (little cup thingy with various sizes) with squash balls in place (no rolling ), which are abundantly sold in Ikea and comes in multiple colour combination.

The legs sure look good.

Christmas is around the corner.

cheers

Come to think of it, I might just cut out to size a pumice sponge block and replace the squash balls. ( thanks SFLam )

Worth a shot.

cheers

Can someone please tell me whether these devices work. New to this area. What I gather from the net is they give better seperation and music is less "muddy". is that true?

There is a local hifi equipment dealer who discourages the use of such devices as he says the highs are lifted which colours the music. Is that correct?

Can anyone recommend some of these devices that arent going to break the bank especially if they dont work.

ta!

Of course most of the hifi dealer will discourage usage of these DIY devices, otherwise nobody would buy their branded devices and make their business difficult.

Sorry if i gave wrong impression. Dealer says all devices whether DIY or branded.

You will get different answers as results will vary with different isolation products and platfforms and the components that are sitting on them. The results can be positive when used on certain components and less noticeable/negligible when used on others.

just to share my experiences...

one fine day i decided to do some experimenting. i had a piece of tempered glass about the size of a turntable. i used chinese tea cups (as mentioned by sivaguru), glasses (normal type for drinking water), then rubber feet (for pasting on the feet of furniture) as stands. i placed my rega planar three on the platform and i was kinda surprised to find that i could change the sound by simply changing the feet.
with the tea cups, the sound became "porcelain" sounding - if you tap the chinese tea cup with your fingernail, you will hear a high-pitched ringing sound characteristic of good porcelain. the music you hear will have the high-pitched coloration.
it was the same with the drinking glass - the music sounded "glassy".
with the rubber, it sounded "rubbery".
so far, i have discovered that the most neutral-sounding materials are cork, felt and pumice blocks.
just my two sen...

sflam,

Does the sound quality of the setup with the chinese tea cups and glasses sound better than the stock rubber feet of your Rega Planar 3? Any chance you have a picture of the setup? I can't seem to imagine how the set up was done.

Thanks in advance.

I replaced the Rega feet to something else entirely, although mine is the later Rega rubber feet, different from much older Planars. But I think the difference is greater if a Rega sits on a very stable platform isolated away from other equipment, especially the loudspeakers. I also customed made a simpler table stand for the LP12. I do sometimes think a Rega does benefit more from a most stable platform and LP12 may not sound so good on it, moreover may be even more musical on a simple but firm wood table stand or cabinet instead. Both these two TT's are different animals in architecture and performance. I've done some other odd tweaks to both TT and there are some improvements I hear so far so good.
Just my own view, not insisting to influence anyone else.

ryder,

the problem with regas is that they are not well isolated from vibrations, unlike the linn which has a spring suspension. the rega works well with any good isolation platform.

the rega sounded the best and most neutral on a piece of granite on pumice blocks.

some people have obtained good results using a glass sheet (or vinyl or thick plywood or mdf) on squash balls (placed on holders so that they won't roll around) or magnetic vibration control systems or cones.

as to whether the rega sounded better with the tea cups and glasses than on stock feet, the sound was better on the stock feet without the diy isolation platform. bear in mind the stock feet were never removed.

setting up the diy isolation platform is simple - place four (some people prefer three) tea cups, glasses, rubber, corks, pumice blocks, felt pads or whatever you want to experiment with at the corners of a rectangle about the size of your turntable. these are the feet that will support the glass sheet.

place the sheet of tempered or laminated glass (better cos these won't break so easily) measuring 18" - 19" by 14"- 15" by quarter inch thick on the feet.

then place the turntable (with its stock feet) on the glass sheet.

you can experiment by using a combination of materials to be used as the feet. for e.g. you can use cork and felt, rubber and cork and felt, etc.

experiment and enjoy...

I see sflam is talking cork again ...

sflam, thanks for the prompt response. I currently have one on a Mana Acoustic platform and unsure whether the DIY isolation platform would bring even greater "improvements" by providing more isolation to vibrations. Have you tried the Mana Acoustics? I have a piece of granite and may experiment with pumice blocks to determine whether this configuration will sound any different from the MA platform. Not too much into DIY. The Rega does sound better on the MA platform compared to on tiled floor. Less sibilant highs and midrange not as diffused.

Cheers.

My experience with isolation tools has been rather ' interesting ' as it involved different material with very extreme results.

When I first saw people with isolation cones especially at the bottom of cd players, I thought to myself nah, its not gonna work not especially the manufacturer has used exotic heavy solid ceramic stands/footers on this sony player I had. After all, with the weight of the Sony, ( over 15kg's) how else could there be any more vibration or instability that could affect it.

One day I got curious thus I borrowed some wood cones some told me that would work wonders, thus did it that night. He even mentioned the position I place it under the player would change the sound. Yea it sure did, made it 10 times worse, that's what it did for my setup. Sound became extremely muddy and the soundstage height collapsed! Took it out and it was back to where it was obviously! Swore I never used another isolation footer.

Months later met another audiophile kaki that was into nothing but pure MBL products, the german rolls royce of hifi equipment and mentioned to me how his own developed footers made of a special nylon resin worked wonders in his system and others that tried it as well.

Well I reckoned since it will not cost anything to try it and to give it another try with a different material to really see if these isolation tweaks were more hype than anything else.

That night itself, to my amazement, the difference was remarkable, not only did the sound stage did not collapse but it lifted it a couple of feet higher, the voices and instruement had more air surrounding them and resolution increased significantly. It was certainly a remarkable experience which one would call a major improvement.

Later suggested the same to another audiophile friend, the description from him after a night's listening session was exactly the same.

I guess the material of which is used for the footers or isolation feets are very much important and wood obviously does not work.

The amazement of a simple tweak like that sometimes!

dixchen

sometimes we should not dismiss something just because one sample of it does not work. for e.g. wood.
it depends on the type of wood.
cardas sells isolation blocks made of myrtlewood and mapleshade sells air-dried maple platforms.

in malaysia, some people use rubberwood platforms.

that's what makes this hobby interesting....

Hi dixchen,

Was it the nylon resin footers that made the difference? and how does one go about fabricating one.

I tried using a piece of glass (1/2 inch thick) as a platform and placed 2-3 strips of nyatoh wood ( about 3/4 inch square x 6 inch long) between glass and equipment. There was better seperation but highs became a brittle.

Research on the internet has it there are two types of vibration that needs to be addressed. the first is acoustical vibration which need to be isolated and then the mechanical vibrations from the equipment itself. In the case of the latter apparently there is the need to drain the vibration from the equipment and then have it dispersed. If a proper conductor is not used and the dispersion not effective, then the sound becomes muddy.

I agree that feet material affects the overall sound. From my experiences, wood feet sound muddy, more body and good timbre, suitable for bright, thin, cold but detail system. Glass or crystal feet sound detail, extrended highs, airier, refined, bright, suitable for muddy and very warm system. Metal feet sound neutral, controlled, cold and sometimes dry and mechanical. Ceramic feet sound hard, liveless, controlled..... they are mentioned in general sound produced, some may not sound like that.
The material mass plays big parts too, for example, bigger and thicker glass feet will sound brighter, thinner and harsh.

bite, try placing the glass platform on cork (ok, i'm talking cork again... ) instead of the nyatoh wood and check if the highs are still brittle. this brittleness could be the sound of the glass ringing.

or you can use a combination of cork and felt footers. you can buy these at hardware diy shops.

sflam,

Have some cork and felt footers around somewhere and will give it a go. Whats your experience like with amplifiers? do you get a similar response?

thanks.

bite,

when using isolation platforms, you will find them most effective on (in order of effectiveness):

1 - turntables, especially those with no suspension
2 - cd players
3 - amps

some people have placed speakers on them, but i have not tried using isolation platforms for that purpose.

To add,

On the effectiveness of isolation platform on amps, i believe the platforms will affect tube amps more than solid-state amps. I have found no difference when using platforms and products such as Nordost pulsar points on all my solid-state amps.

Hi,
Has anyone tried sandbags. Try packing dry fine sand into old socks and place them under a slab of granite.

hi cooltube

the problem with sandbags and sand-based isolation platforms (they are actually quite effective) is that the sand tends to settle unevenly with time.

you press the platform (granite or whatever) and adjust it to level it and a few days later, it will tilt slightly and you will have to level it again. A few more days later, it will tilt slightly and you will have to level it yet again...

My theory is that fine sand absorb vibration well and break up resonance energy by rubbing with one another of the particles. I've no problem with stability once everything settled and in fact it is so stable. Fact is sandbags used for army bunkers and temporary earth retaining structures. I use black panty hose so it looks quite discrete and neat under black granite slabs.

http://i87.servimg.com/u/f87/13/77/65/46/dsc_1510.jpg



Very good !!!! Try it ,....

CKCHOO,
Cool man. But how do you you change your vinyls on the turntables without having to crawl over all that equipment?

I also DIY-ed a platform for my CDP since I could not afford branded ones. Good enough for me.

ckchoo,

what are those purple marbles? some kind of quartz or amethyst?

sflam wrote:ckchoo,

what are those purple marbles? some kind of quartz or amethyst?

Maybe the calming effect of amethyst helps.

Cooltube wrote:My theory is that fine sand absorb vibration well and break up resonance energy by rubbing with one another of the particles. I've no problem with stability once everything settled and in fact it is so stable. Fact is sandbags used for army bunkers and temporary earth retaining structures. I use black panty hose so it looks quite discrete and neat under black granite slabs.

What about small steel balls? Like bb bullet? They are round, and solid.

car o scope wrote:I also DIY-ed a platform for my CDP since I could not afford branded ones. Good enough for me.

Care to share how you do it?

runemaster,

small steel balls may ring. if you want you can try lead beads. but these will cost $$$. you can get sand for free.

Cooltube wrote:CKCHOO,
Cool man. But how do you you change your vinyls on the turntables without having to crawl over all that equipment?

Haha! trust an audiophile to scrutinise every minute detail

Hehe the ball from Jas Audio

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Hi all,
I get quite a few sample pieces of constituted marble and granite slabs from suppliers in my office and sometimes real marble and granite too measuring either 450 or 600 sq. mm. Will post here soon for those who want, free of course. Sand you can find, but finer the better as they will be denser per specific volume. The best very fine white sand I found is at my favourite beach. I'm contemplating getting a tailor do proper custom made flat bags for my granite slabs.

Nice gesture Cooltube.

I tried the cork last night but cant say there was a noticeable difference in the sound. Bought some circular rubber stick on pads from ACE earlier and if onto something will post otherwise just assume my garbage pile just got bigger.

Dear cooltube,

Have you tried the sand pool box made by the mentioned granite or marble ? Beware of sounding hard, mechanical and worsely harsh although control.
My experience told me sand pool box is better made of wood, the sound will be natural, good timbre.....

runemaster wrote:

Care to share how you do it?

It is not very pro lah..
Just a thick papan and with spikes to adjust the leveling.
That's all.

car o scope wrote:

runemaster wrote:

Care to share how you do it?

It is not very pro lah..
Just a thick papan and with spikes to adjust the leveling.
That's all.

Aiyo, no need to be so humble. At least you have done it, it's the experience that count^^. If you think it's not that pro, then do another one next one, a better one^^

Oh ya, about the spikes you use....is it you buy from hifi shops, or just normal legging?

hughesths wrote:Dear cooltube,

Have you tried the sand pool box made by the mentioned granite or marble ? Beware of sounding hard, mechanical and worsely harsh although control.
My experience told me sand pool box is better made of wood, the sound will be natural, good timbre.....

Oh ok, I'l give it a try. Got some aged Balau inch thick timber in my garage. Will cut one up over the weekend and have a go. Cheers.

Noramal plywood/MDF would suffice and of course real wood is better.
The idea of sand pool usage is just like your equipment is "floating" on a pile of even level of sand. Sand pool box is best made of wood, avoid granite, marble, glass ( like aquarium ).....they will make sound hard, liveless, unnatural and mechanical.
Sand pool are effective to suorce equipments- cd players, pre amps, dac, power supply unit, power conditioners, tube amps, projector and speakers but less on solid state amp.
Appropriate usage of sand pool is considered a must, it will improve the sound -more bodied, weightier, slightly warm, natural, better timbre. It should be compromised by the usage of feet. Too much sand pool without the usage of feet would result in muddy, overly warm/ bodied, "fat" sound...but if your system is overly bright, it still fits.
Type of sand used...the finer the better, sounds more refined.