Lousy electrical power supply fix - Power Conditioners

llsaw wrote: It is now consistently without doubt that my hi-fi sucks at night prime time (8pm to 11pm) compared to other times of the day. Bass is less & without impact and likewise the midband/top end sounds dull and devoid of life. A decent power conditioner is now another top priority. Does anyone here have any first hand experience. These things are not cheap! The RGPC 400 Pro for example costs >RM3K!

This happens because at daytime, the electrical grid is more inductive while at night, it usually gets more capacitative (or was it the other way around).

Either way, the "power factor" drops and thats why most likely the reason why your hifi equipment sounds worse coz its not getting enough "usable power" from the mains.

Look for good power conditioners what can do power-factor correction, in addition to the usual noise filters and energy storage features.

May I know if I were to build the power line from scratch, what should I do to the power grid or house cabling to prevent unstable power supply? I ask because I am in the midst of doing major house reno, so can still do something to prevent that if possible.

Thanks.

i don't think u can do anything to change things in the grid cos it's connected to other houses, shophouses, factories, offices, etc. in yr area.
but what u can do to have better power supply to yr hi fi equipment is to have a dedicated line for it i.e. don't include the fridge, washing machine, etc in the same circuit. also ask the electrician to use a larger gauge wire. i know someone who wired a 32amp dedicated line for his hi fi.
as for ways to solve yr problem:
1) listen to music after peak hours when fewer people are using power from the grid.
2) buy a power regenerator, but that will cost $$$.

Thanks for the info.

sflam wrote:i don't think u can do anything to change things in the grid cos it's connected to other houses, shophouses, factories, offices, etc. in yr area.
but what u can do to have better power supply to yr hi fi equipment is to have a dedicated line for it i.e. don't include the fridge, washing machine, etc in the same circuit. also ask the electrician to use a larger gauge wire. i know someone who wired a 32amp dedicated line for his hi fi.
as for ways to solve yr problem:
1) listen to music after peak hours when fewer people are using power from the grid.
2) buy a power regenerator, but that will cost $$$.

WOW!! 32amp!! HOw much does it cost? I bet it is in the thousands

Easy lah, just buy a Diesel generator, put it at your own backyard ...
Just like those construction sites!

Guarantee the power sure chun chun one.

Or better still, power everything using big rechargeable batteries, seriously. I once used battery powered preamp by Crimson Elektrik.

Guys,

Back to topic. Any power conditioners to recommend?

PowerTrans Junior.. Malaysia Boleh Trans

I strongly second the suggestion by wabun. PowerTrans is a must for most Malaysian homes. Andrew, one of the problems with your system is that our power supply voltage drops significantly at night. That is when everyone goes home and switches on the air-cond and starts using the water-heater (to take bath). I have a volt-meter my friend made for me from an industrial unit and I noticed that day-time (especially weekday) average is around almost 240volts. But at night, this can drop to as low as 225 or even 220volts. If you have bought your equipment from a good dealer, then it will surely be spec'ed properly for Malaysian use, i.e. 240volts. If you power an amp which requires 240V with only 220V, that's when it will sound weak and harsh and lack detail, etc.

My rule of thumb for my PowerTran is to calculate the maximum wattage required for the whole system and then get the PowerTran spec'ed for more than this value (I won't tell you how much my PowerTran is rated at but it is several kW). Sometimes the manufacturer (of the hifi equipment) does not specifiy how much the power amp draws (unlike Krell for e.g.). In that case, check the rating of the fuse and then calculate the max power draw from that. Add the ratings for all equipments together and your power conditioner -must- be able to supply more power than that.

All these are IMHO of course.

If u use PowerTrans, you must be very rajin to always check the voltmeter and set it accordingly. Its a completely manual device.

If for any reason you "terlupa" to check each time before you play, then there is a risk of over-stepping up the voltage.

Just remember, PowerTrans is a "M"VR, not an AVR. The M = Manual.

Errr.. and where can I buy this Power Trans?

POWERTRANS Junior ( Used )




POWERTRAN 2 KVA

Model : Junior

RM 1000

Posted by Dong Fong Audio (Ipoh) at 6:08 PM
Ken Sin +(6012)4678788

Mayb oredi sold, dunno..try ur luck..

llsaw wrote:Errr.. and where can I buy this Power Trans?

IF you want to looking for the new one, you can get it from Audio image at PJ.
But try to get the new generation of Power Trans which is Balance version. Better than the old version. IF budget is high, try Furutech daytona 303, the effect is one of the best.

what is the different between "old version" vs "balance version" ?

I am a user of the Power Trans 2KVA with Balanced transformer, I leave it on 24H/7Days without switching off. No Problems at all even on lightning day. Yes, the output voltage may vary from day to night but for my case, only marely a few Volt different at my area. The best thing with Power Trans is that the voltage selector at the front can be adjusted to suit your equipment's need; the higher voltage you select, the lower output will be. There is also another switch to compensiate -5V too.

For the price & quality built inside, STRONGLY RECOMMENDED.

wabun wrote:what is the different between "old version" vs "balance version" ?

In normal wiring there is one neutral wire
which is always at (almost) ground potential and other wire which carries
the 240V AC voltage. There is also a separate safety ground wire.
In balanced power there is two out of phase 120V lines rather than normal 240V and neutral. The voltage difference between those out of phase 120V lines is 240V, so the equipments will get full 240V between their
power input pins. The balanced power is generated from normal
AC voltage by using an isolation transformer with centre-tapped 240V output and the centre-tap of the output is grounded.
That expensive power balancing equipment is just a 1:1 mains power
isolation transformer with a center tap to ground, so that
you have two legs of AC which are 180' out of phase with respect to one
another (with respect to ground), so that your ground currents cancel out.
The important fact not noted is that
the center tap is also situated as a the center of the output voltage
swing. That's the key in a balanced power system.

I think a power regenerator will suit your needs. Something like a Purepower 2000 will work nicely. The one shown below is the smaller brother though.



Check out the review by the Star

http://sites.thestar.com.my/audio/story.asp?file=/2009/4/27/afreviews/3755138&sec=afreviews

Regards,
Joe Ling

That thing costs over 10k.......

Although PurePower might be considered expensive, it is still worth to audition before you buy.
Just imagine that you could power your whole hifi system using its battery mode ( PurePower unit totally unplugged from wall outlet ) for 30 minute min to 5 hours max continuously depending on your total gears power consumption, how loud the listening level, battery charging level and which PurePower models you are using, you will be impressed by your hifi system sonic performance by this true "isolated pure/clean power" powering your system.
You could also consider adding another PurePower battery pack to prolong your "battery mode" listening period, if you wish to.
If your budget permits, get the bigger Purepower 2000i for more dynamic headroom for your hifi system.
There is a drawback of course, that the Purepower internal batteries would need replacement after few years of usage. There is battery replacement by user procedure guide included in PurePower manual.

runemaster wrote:That thing costs over 10k.......

So much desire... so little money ... sigh.

Maybe this would help in making an informed choice.

http://hifi-unlimited.blogspot.com/2009/09/power-of-silence-more-adventures-with.html

Reading the comments at the end is an imperative.

Hi kkthen, your description is welldone. I learn something today.Thanks !

The PurePower 1050i is sufficient for most needs - you can send the website a list of your electronics to e plugged in and they will recommend which model. Also remember that valve and SS power amps place different loads on the PurePower. For example, the load on the power regenerator is minimal even with a 400-watt ss power amp plugged in. However, with my multi-mode (50-150W) all-tube power amp, it's about 50% in operation.

I've also plugged in the Audio Magic Stealth to the PurePower and run my equipment of its outlets. A sceptical dealer was pretty surprised at the results ....

Then again, all amp manufacturer will tell you to plug directly into the wall socket ...

We used this in the 90s for the our office computers. Found one in the store. Still can power up but wonder if can use for hi fi equipments.

tycham wrote:
We used this in the 90s for the our office computers. Found one in the store. Still can power up but wonder if can use for hi fi equipments.

Try and see(hear) lah ....

sound bad. I tried b4. very worst than direct plug to wall plug.

mugenfoo wrote:

Try and see(hear) lah ....

Quite heavy to lug home. Tried on the computer speaker, think got a little more kick on the lower mid-range.

wabun wrote:

sound bad. I tried b4. very worst than direct plug to wall plug.

Really! Then shouldn't waste time lugging it home to try.

How much is a new Power Trans incidently? Not RM1K rite? I think I will try a RGPC 400 Pro one of these days. Hi-fi Unlimited is dangerous poison. Remaining budget for the year just got taken with a Siltech ST-18 IQ interconnect upgrade

mugenfoo wrote:Easy lah, just buy a Diesel generator, put it at your own backyard ...
Just like those construction sites!

Guarantee the power sure chun chun one.

Good idea.
But where to park the generator if staying at terrace house?

OK. Back to the topic.
I think there are not many out there which has multiple functions like AVR, UPS and Regulator all in one, right?
Audio Image's PowerTrans ada ka?
(Apart from PurePower. Too expensive )

APC- American Power Company. Its products seem assembled in India now.

hughesths wrote:APC- American Power Company. Its products seem assembled in India now.

Hmmm.. I have seen these APC stuffs at IT shops too.
They have a wide range. The biggest is 1500VA.
The price is not too expensive given its features.
Any of you here used APC before?

llsaw wrote: Hi-fi Unlimited is dangerous poison.

So many choices... no money ... sigh!

Wouldn't something like this work too?
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=MP5206&CATID=&keywords=UPS&SPECIAL=&form=KEYWORD&ProdCodeOnly=&Keyword1=&Keyword2=&pageNumber=&priceMin=&priceMax=&SUBCATID=

or this:
http://www1.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=MP5210&keywords=UPS&form=KEYWORD

(Granted these things aren't cheap, but its a lot less than RM10k)

From what I've read I think it uses the battery like a massive capacitor in line with the mains (so the battery is being continuously recharged while you're using the UPS), so wouldn't this sort out your power issues?

Edit: only the second one does that, and so they charge you a bit more of a premium for that but its still far less than most "power regenerators" marketed for hi-fi.

tycham wrote:

llsaw wrote: Hi-fi Unlimited is dangerous poison.

So many choices... no money ... sigh!

no money = limited or no choices.

Alot of money => freedom of choice (including choosing "not to buy" as well).

If no money, the option is only restricted to "cannot buy becoz no money". Where got choice here?

The non audiophile designed ups and avr would normally sound bad with hifi system, serious audition should be done before any purchase.

mugenfoo wrote:

tycham wrote:

llsaw wrote: Hi-fi Unlimited is dangerous poison.

So many choices... no money ... sigh!

no money = limited or no choices.

Alot of money => freedom of choice (including choosing "not to buy" as well).

If no money, the option is only restricted to "cannot buy becoz no money". Where got choice here?

Money not enuff should be more apt.

choose for isolation type instead of autotransformer, normal IT use regulator is autotransformer, this design won't help especially will make power amp sound worst.with same VA rating, the isolation type is many times more bigger than autotransformer.
as well as the price

How about just plugging in an isolation transformer? Worth investing cause I found one selling 3kVA for about RM600. Not sure if toriodal or normal type. Going to check it out later. Any advise?

Still, it would be better that you could audition the isolation transformer preferably with your own hifi system before you buy.
My RGPC Substation ( isolation transformer )has obviously improved hifi system sound - wider/deeper soundstage, better transient/bass control, quieter background-better imaging/decay/airier... and av system - wider soundfield, more controlled subwoofer low bass,dynamic...projector picture quality - blacker, more vibrant colour....
Please bear in mind that it is only an isolation transformer ( just for system isolaton )but not a voltage regulator.

thanks. can't audition cause it is sold by a electrical installter hardware shop. maybe buy a vr later.

hughesths wrote:Still, it would be better that you could audition the isolation transformer preferably with your own hifi system before you buy.
My RGPC Substation ( isolation transformer )has obviously improved hifi system sound - wider/deeper soundstage, better transient/bass control, quieter background-better imaging/decay/airier... and av system - wider soundfield, more controlled subwoofer low bass,dynamic...projector picture quality - blacker, more vibrant colour....
Please bear in mind that it is only an isolation transformer ( just for system isolaton )but not a voltage regulator.

RGPC Substation is also megabucks!!!

Hmmm.. I think I should dig out more info before I make my decision.
Sounds like buying such a thing is no easy task too.
Will pay Adrian a visit to get info of those PowerTrans too.

I'm using a sub-RM300 device called the Harmonix Enacom which is essentially a capacitor that works in parallel so it does not mess with current draw. Just plug it into a unused AC receptacle and it works it magic smoothing out messy AC waveforms. Seems to work fine too. So cheap you'll flip. Might get another one.

True, I have the AC Enacom soldered into all of my equipments. It's soldered on the internal IEC socket. Sound much quiter/darker. I have all of the Enacom products too; Speaker Enacom & Line Enacom. These are good & more affortable tweeks to play with good performance.

But Enacom tends to kill off alot of detailing as well.

it's a hack. and not a particularly good one for all occasions.

Speaker and interconnect Enacom definitely a nicht nicht. AC line & IEC sockets OK.

For my case, i don't think so. In fact, i can hear more by using them. I don't like to listen to bright system so it may suits my taste well.

llsaw wrote:

hughesths wrote:Still, it would be better that you could audition the isolation transformer preferably with your own hifi system before you buy.
My RGPC Substation ( isolation transformer )has obviously improved hifi system sound - wider/deeper soundstage, better transient/bass control, quieter background-better imaging/decay/airier... and av system - wider soundfield, more controlled subwoofer low bass,dynamic...projector picture quality - blacker, more vibrant colour....
Please bear in mind that it is only an isolation transformer ( just for system isolaton )but not a voltage regulator.

RGPC Substation is also megabucks!!!

I'm a newbie in HIFI world. so after all the info I got here, do we need to have both Voltage Regulator & Isolation Transformer at the same times?

so we plug the voltage regulator to the wall outlet and then isolation transformer to the voltage regulator?

If you have the budget, they are good and worthy long term investment of your av or hifi system and they will not be obsolete like av players, receiver and projector.