Network Music Player (Logitech (Slim Devices), Linn, Sooloos, Sonos, T+A ...)

Hi, I believe some of you may have heard about Network Media Player (NMP) such as Logitech - Squeezebox Classic, Squeezebox Duet, Transporter ; Sonos; Linn; etc.) for those who has not yet familiar, i would like to share with my little experience on NMP. I would take Logitech Squeezebox Classic (Formerly known as Slim Devices Squeezebox V3) as example as i own this NMP connecting to my audio system.

By utilizing 802.11g wi-fi network or ethernet cable (RJ45) via network router, with connection NMP to your audio system (analog RCA output using its internal 24-bit Burr Brown DAC; digital SPDIF output - coaxial or optical to external DAC), you are able to play all your digital music collection to your hifi system.

Photo below is front and rear view of Squeezebox Classic.



Front view of Squeezebox Classic ( sample music - 16-bit 48kHz , there are two colours, i.e black and white)



Rear view of Squeezebox Classic.

Recognized audio format of this NMP are uncompressed format (AIFF, WAV, PCM), lossless format (Apple lossless - ALAC, FLAC, WMA lossless), compressed or lossy format (MP3, AAC, Ogg Vorbis, WMA).

Just ripped your audio CD via ripping softwares to the above formats. Ripping softwares commonly used for PC users are such as EAC, foobar, media monkey, winamp, WMP, for Mac users are iTunes, Max, XLD, etc. , since i am still new with Mac (migrated from PC recently), i am still learning to get decent ripping software for Mac OS.

Most of these ripping softwares attached with CDDB, MusicBrainz plugin which able to provide metadata (artist name, song title, album title, genre, year, composer, etc.) and album art for the audio formats, please note not all audio format support metadata such as WAV. Else, you can retag your audio format manually using tagging software.

The advantage of metadata of audio format is you are able to sort your music by song, artist, album, genre, or year easily when browsing your music collection via music software iTunes.

Squeezebox comes with free music software (free download from its website) known as SqueezeCenter (SC), it will manage your music ripped in a well sorting manner, i.e., artist,
album, genres, years as well as album art. There are also lots of third-party plugins can be
attached with SC which make Squeezebox more fun and valuable. One of the best 3rd party plugins is you are able to rate your songs with how many Stars, how many time the songs, artists or album have been played in statisically manner. Another plugin enable you to scrobble your music played into last.fm. This software allows me
to select my favorites music based on either artists, album, genres and
play them randomly over my audio system, in short, it's like a digital music
jukebox and play my music 24/7.

See photo below on SC.




Another feature on this Squeezebox, you can listen to worldwide internet radio stations which are being preset in the SC or you can add manually the internet staton if you know its URL.

SC (currently the official version is 7.3.2) also will be updated from time to time to provide more stable and features.

Basically, you can control your music via computer or its remote control. Alternately, you can use 3rd party apple software, i.e. iPeng in iPod touch (via wi-fi) to select your songs.

Attached herewith other Logitech products on NMP: -



Logitech Squeezebox Duet (Left is called Squeezebox Receiver, Right is called Squeezebox Controller)



Front view of Logitech Transporter (high-end NMP (AKM AK4396 DAC chips), sample music upto 24-bit 96kHz, there are two colours, silver and black )



Rear view of Transporter (word clock input to synchronize with external clock, Analog output,
balanced and unbalanced output, digital outputs and inputs (coaxial,
optical, BNC, XLR) )

For more details, please visit Slim Devices


Cheers.

Auronthas

Thanks for the information on Slimdevices products.

May I know where did you purchase your Squeezebox? It's about time I get into computer audio as well. The Squeezebox and Transporter were quite popular in the States. I've read that the squeezebox needs a DAC whereas the Transporter comes built-in with a DAC. Also, it was mentioned that ultimately sound quality is dependent on the ripper and itunes which are best stored as lossless or uncompressed format.

I bought it 2 years ago from Hong Kong after discovering this device from the absolute sound forum.

With my current hifi system, i hardly hear any sonic difference between Squeezebox and CA 540C V2 (compared between lossless format vs. audio CDs), the internal DAC Burr Brown in Squeezebox not bad though, but haven't try Squeezebox with higher end audio system.

95% of my digital music collection are ripped in lossless (FLAC, WMA lossless) and uncompressed (AIFF) format, the remaining are those rock/pop audio CDs which were rippped in WMA VBR lossy or compressed format much earlier.

Yes, i noticed some Squeezebox owners connects to external DAC such as Benchmark, Bel Canto, Lavry, etc. However, i read the review that Transporter comes with a very good, decent internal DAC, it provides digital input as well, i.e., one can connect his CDP to Transporter via coaxial or toslink bypass CDP's internal DAC.

At one time, i was planning to buy Transporter or external DAC or buying CA 840 C which also come with digital input, but now, i would concentrate more on room acoustic and defer my earlier plan.

Auronthas

Picture speaks thousand words.

A True Audiophile Grade Network Media/Music Player (by WSLAM)

The above link gives in you inside out of Logitech (formerly known as Slim Devices) Transporter with great photo shot. He is one of the forum members in Slim Devices, Absolute Sound.

Would like to share other Network Media Players (NMP) as follow: -

a) Sooloos - Soolos Website - (local distributor/agent - Norman Audio)

b) Linn Majik DS - Linn Majik DS - (local distributor/agent - ?)

c) T+A E-series music player - T+A website - (local distributor/agent - ?)

And there are many many more high-end hifi manufacturer is venturing toward this direction.

I would like to share some features in SqueezeCenter (Music server of Squeezebox/Transporter) in few photos below: -


The above picture is the home menu of SqueezeCenter



Part of my music album collection (Home > Album) under N to S (alphabetically order), i do not know how SqueezeCenter sort chinese character (by PinYin ?)



As i mentioned in my earlier post, you can listen to internet radio via Squeezebox, the above pictures shown 39 internet stations in Malaysia (Home > World Radio > All Region > Asia > Malaysia > Stations (39))



Live365 ( http://www.live365.com ) is among my favorites internet radio stations.



Other features in SqueezeCenter, such as

1) Alarm Clock - wake you up with your preset music playlist

2) Sound & Effect - a number of tracks with natural sound effects.

3) Trackstat - a third-party plugin to SqueezeCenter providing you a statistic of your music played, you can rate your songs from one to five stars, also you can view your least played songs, album, artists , most played songs, album, artists, and many more...

4) Superdatetemperature - a third-party plugin - display time, current and forecast temperature and humidity over Squeezebox display

5) Last.fm Scrobbler (or SqueezeScrobbler) - a third-party plugin - scrobbled your music played on Squeezebox to last.fm

6) iPeng - a third-party plugin - an apple app. software on iphone / ipod touch, as a remote (wifi) control your Squeezebox (refer following pictures)



Auronthas

Hey auronthas, thanks for sharing about this NMP. I don't think anyone is selling it over here though. If Stereophile can do a review on the Squeezebox, it's a matter of time that there will be more players in this field.

Personally, I think it looks really good as a player but quite costly at about HKD2.3k.

Hi KenZen,

It's my pleasure to share NMP to all as i can see lots high-end hifi are moving towards NMP like Linn, T + A, even i heard Linksys also start venturing into NMP.

Slim Devices Squeezebox V3 was awarded one of Stereophile's Product of Year in 2006 and Editor's Choice award too, refer the following link: -

http://www.stereophile.com/features/1207poty/index10.html

And in Sept 2006 Stereophile, John Atkinson, Chief Editor of Stereophile did make a review. Here's the link: -

http://www.stereophile.com/digitalprocessors/906slim/

Also in Feb 2007 Stereophile, Wes Philips made a review on Squeezebox V3 elder brother, i.e Slim Devices Transporter. Here's the link:-

http://stereophile.com/mediaservers/207slim/

I found Squeezebox V3 in Logitech Malaysia website as follow: -

http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/speakers_audio/wireless_music_systems/&cl=my,en


Auronthas

More detail reviews on NMP

http://www.slimdevices.com/au_news.html

Hi all, just to share some photo setup of NMP with others DACs, CDs, turntables, amplifier, speakers, etc, the following links are from Slim Devices Website, enjoy reading and viewing

a) Slim Devices (Now known as Logitech) Squeezebox

b) Slim Devices (Now known as Logitech) Transporter

a) Philips NP1100 - Network Music Player - The following review is for reference only, please judge and compare yourself with other NMPs.

http://www.trustedreviews.com/multimedia/review/2008/09/17/Philips-NP1100-Streamium-Network-Music-Player/p1

b) Linn Sneaky Music DS - Network Music Player - Links to Linn's NMP website as following: -

http://www.linn.co.uk/sneaky_music_ds

Squeezebox history and timeline can be found at wikipedia as following link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squeezebox_(network_music_player)

Hi,

This is good info. Am I right that the Squeezebox Duet can display Chinese characters ? I asked in AVS forum but no one bothered to answer...

Regards,
Joe Ling

Dear Joeling,

I am not sure about Squeezebox Duet, but my squeezebox classic does display chinese character.

Cheers

joeling wrote:Hi,

Am I right that the Squeezebox Duet can display Chinese characters ?

Yes, you are right ! Squeezebox Classic or SB3 can display Chinese, Japanese, Korean characters as long as your music tag are correctly written. I believe Squeezebox Duet can display as well.

You can always check the forum in Slim Devices at http://forums.slimdevices.com

Here's some pictures and video clip (poor resolution) showing Chinese characters.




http://www.youtube.com/v/ucb9Oek7RzU

I have seen people modify the SB such it is really audiophile level. Individual power supply with low ppm clock.

Yes, some even mod with tubes for Slim Devices Transporter, a US company Modwright does that.

For those interested in mod and DIY stuff for Slim Devices, check this out !

http://forums.slimdevices.com/forumdisplay.php?f=16

So, where can one buy a Duet in Malaysia ?

Wow ... this Squeezebox thing seems really popular !!

How does it compare against say ... an iTunes + Airport Express aka Airtunes setup ?

In terms of:
- user-friendliness,
- features ,
- functionality.

How about in terms of output quality, that would be more interesting. I have wanted to go this route sometimes ago.

nah .... not too concerned with output quality, since the source file is generally MP3 ... so trying to get "audiophile" quality from MP3 is a moot point. Much rather just enjoy the music that subject MP3s to critical-listening.

No amount of fancy-pants digital filtering or D/A conversion is going to salvage MP3s.

Even homestyle conversions of audio CD to lossless formats isn't 100% as there is always unavoidable transfer loss due to the inherent weakness in the red-book format.

Would like to consider more purely on the user friendliness, features & functionality.

mugenfoo wrote:Wow ... this Squeezebox thing seems really popular !!

How does it compare against say ... an iTunes + Airport Express aka Airtunes setup ?

In terms of:
- user-friendliness,
- features ,
- functionality.

This thread is not only for Squeezebox but rather Network Music Player, IMO, the future trend may move towards this direction.

I have no experience in iTunes + Airport Express + Airtunes, i believe it's more user-friendly than Squeezebox.

Squeezebox requires its proprietary and software called SqueezeCenter (SC), and it needs a bit of computer-literated especially dealing with its plugins. There are 3rd-party plugin to provide more features in Squeezebox, for example, it can display lyric of the songs in Squeezebox, information of the artists shown in Squeezebox, just to name a few features. SC's software is open-platform, hence, lots of contributors from its forum come up with interesting, creative, innovative (3rd-party) plugin. Nevertheless, it's ok to stick to original plugin as it's adequate.

In the early day, i have experience plenty of hiccups on the SC (previously known as SlimServer), now, SC is more stable and userfriendly.

joeling wrote:So, where can one buy a Duet in Malaysia ?

I heard it's not available in Malaysia yet, but i saw Squeezebox Classic is shown in Logitech Malaysia's website, perhaps you can contact them or the nearest country to get Squeezebox Duet is from Singapore.

chua55 wrote:How about in terms of output quality, that would be more interesting. I have wanted to go this route sometimes ago.

The output (analog RCA) of Squeezebox Classic is not bad though, the internal DAC of Squeezebox Classic is made of 24-bit Burr Brown. The below quote is from wikipedia Squeezebox. Please note the THD between Squeezebox Classic and Duet.

Squeezebox Duet (January 2008)

This new design consists of a more sophisticated remote, called the Squeezebox Controller with a display (like the Sonos), and a simplified network music player, called the Squeezebox Receiver
(SBR) connecting to the stereo. (The SBR can operate without the
Squeezebox Controller although it is not supported by Logitech and is
recommended for advanced users only). Additional SBRs are sold
separately.
Differences between the Squeezebox Classic and the Squeezebox Duet include:

• The SBR does not have a display (only a multi-coloured status LED), instead relying on the Controller for its user interface.
  
• The SBR does not have a headphone jack.
  
• The SBR does not have an infrared receiver.
  
• The DAC from SB3 is a Burr-Brown 24-bit DAC, and the one on the SBR is a Wolfson 24-bit DAC.
  
• The Total harmonic distortion on the SB3 is less than -93.5dB (0.002%) and on the SBR is less than -88dB (0.004%).
  
• The Squeezebox Classic costs USD $300 and the Duet USD$400.
  

Thanks for the info. Where in Singapore can I get the Duet then ?

auronthas wrote:

joeling wrote:So, where can one buy a Duet in Malaysia ?

I heard it's not available in Malaysia yet, but i saw Squeezebox Classic is shown in Logitech Malaysia's website, perhaps you can contact them or the nearest country to get Squeezebox Duet is from Singapore.

Regards,
Joe Ling

sorry double post

It's my pleasure to share.

Sorry that i am not sure where in Singapore you can get Squeezebox Duet, perhaps someone who own Squeezebox Classic/Duet can offer Joe a hand.

Joe, you can order online too, read the last post (post #69) of the similar thread in LYN forum as follow.

http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/690187

edited: Try to call Logitech General Product support as follow on your query.


General Product Support



Technical Support

• 1800 88 0719 (Toll Free for Malaysia ONLY)
  Monday - Friday: 9am - 6pm
  

ahh .. i can see where the squeezebocks have an advantage ... its got a nice display to show whats playing.

No such display from Airport express since its just a white piece of plastic brick plugged into the wall with a blinky green light.

As i mentioned earlier, you can modify the display or screensaver to Analogue VU meter, RSS feeder (you can edit your favourite sites) and many more.

Besides that, with 3rd party plugin (required little IT skills), there are tons of other features to display such as Current Temperature, Humidity, wind speed & direction, 5-day forecast of any major cities including KL. (it's linked with the Weather Channel), sport news, scores, many many more ...

In term of sound quality (analog RCA output), it's quite par with my current CD player vs digital music in AIFF. I am anxious to know if there's more improvement with external DAC, digital coaxial cable (between Squeezebox and external DAC) and balanced XLR cable (between external DAC and Krell) combination soon (very soon)

hmm....sure, u can borrow my Audio Alchemy DDE DAC anytime ...

Mugenfoo, thanks for your offer.

My earlier post here on external DAC had been moved to appropriate thread, i.e. Cambridge Audio DacMagic. Thanks for reading.

Hi all,

There is a review by Jon Iverson on T+A Elektroakustik Music Player on August 2009 Stereophile which i received today via mail.

Please check it out, i would post the link as soon as it is published in Stereophile's website (it could take few months).

Cheers,

Auronthas

Here some equipment review from Stereophile on NMP, happy reading : -

a) Sooloos - http://stereophile.com/mediaservers/908sooloos/ ;

b) Linn Klimax DS - http://stereophile.com/digitalprocessors/308linn/ ;

c) McIntosh MS750 - http://stereophile.com/mediaservers/108mac/

Auronthas

To share an article on Jitters in Digital Audio Streams by Steve Nugent of Empirical Audio, particularly on
Jitter and Networked audio

Jitter and Networked audio


Networked audio (Ethernet), both wired and
WiFi is a unique case. Because the data is transmitted in packets with
flow-control, re-try for errors and buffering at the end-point device,
it is not as much of a real-time transfer as USB, S/PDIF or Firewire.
The computer transmitting the data packets must still keep-up" the pace
to prevent dropouts from occurring, but the real-time nature of the
transfer is looser. Unlike with other protocols, there can be
dead-times when no data is being transferred. Networking also avoids
the use of the audio stack of the computer audio system since it treats
all data essentially the same. This avoids kmixer on XP systems and the
audio stacks on Mac and PC Vista. Because of the packet-transfer
protocol of Ethernet and data buffering at the end-point, the jitter of
the clock in the computer is a non-issue. The only clock that is
important is the one in the end-point device. Examples of end-point
devices are: Squeezebox, Duet and Sonos. This would seem to be the
ideal situation, which it certainly is. The only problem that can occur
is overloading the network with traffic or WiFi interference, which may
cause occasional dropouts. The problem for audiophiles is that the
majority of these end-point devices were designed with high-volume
manufacturing and low-cost as requirements, with performance taking a
lower priority. As a result, the jitter from these devices is higher
than it could be. It should be the lowest of all the audio source
devices available.

The whole articles can be accessed as following URL : http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue43/jitter.htm

Auronthas

.. and the clock signal is part of the S/PDIF signal as wel. Thats why different digital coax / AES/EBU cables will also affect the sound because its all got its own different jitter characteristics. Perhaps the cabling interface between CDs and DACs with the lowest jitter would be the AT&T / MMF method but its very uncommon.

saw this on www.computeraudiophile.com written by Chris Connaker, the founder of the website, and thought it would be just right for this thread.

Asynchronicity: A USB Audio Primer

Thu, 07/30/2009

Recently the validity of USB as an audio interface has been called into question by some audiophiles. Adding to this was an all-encompassing statement in The Absolute Sound professing that USB interfaces are inferior to S/PDIF interfaces across the board. This had much of the computer audio world understandably bent out of shape. Instead of a disservice to the audiophile community I will attempt to provide accurate information based on facts and discuss different USB implementations. I'll focus mainly on the two different types of USB implementations asynchronous and adaptive. In my opinion any USB, Firewire, S/PDIF, or AES/EBU interface is capable of outperforming the other interfaces on any given day. None of these interfaces is inherently better or worse than the others. It's the implementation of the interface in each product that separates the men from the boys.





Introduction

Note: I am by no means a leading authority on USB audio and I relied heavily on engineers in the industry while researching this article. Some, but not all, of my sources were Gordon Rankin from Wavelength Audio, Charlie Hansen from Ayre acoustics, and engineers at Data Conversion Systems (dCS). I filter out all marketing terms and bias when analyzing my correspondence with all experts. This article has been in process for several months, long before the TAS article was published in print. This is not a response to the TAS article rather it's an attempt to provide facts about USB audio and arm consumers with more information. Like everything I write this article is wide open to comments and criticism from anyone in the world. I encourage everyone to leave a comment below.



Universal Serial Bus (USB) is gaining in popularity by the minute among audiophiles seeking to connect a music server to their high-end audio system. One reason for this increasing popularity is the ubiquity of the USB interface. USB is available on virtually every computer manufactured in the last ten years. Plus, it's pretty easy to grasp the music server concept at a high level when all that's needed is to plug a cable into a USB port. Complexity, confusion, and a unique set of compromises arise when audiophiles involve internal cards like the Lynx or RME card that requires installation inside the computer's case. USB on the other hand is nearly fool-proof. A USB cable can only connect to a DAC and computer one way and once its connected the listener will have sound coming from the computer. Granted the configuration may need some fine tuning to get the best sound possible but nonetheless getting sound out of a USB port is quite simple.



Many audio component manufacturers are currently building Digital to Analog Converters (DAC) with USB inputs. Some manufacturers are also building USB to S/PDIF converters that allow listeners to output audio from their computer's USB port and input that digital signal into a DAC without a USB input. Listeners have also elected to use a USB to S/PDIF converter if the USB implementation on the converter offers better performance or more sample rate options than the USB input on their current DAC. Like every other consumer product in audio and elsewhere, not all USB enabledDACs and converters are created equal. By far the most popular USB implementation method uses what's called Adaptive USB mode. The newest USB implementation used by a select few manufacturers is called Asynchronous USB mode. The technical differences between adaptive and asynchronous modes are very large. In addition there are differences between implementations within each USB mode. For example there are a few different adaptive USB implementations that differ widely in features and sound.



Before delving into the adaptive and asynchronous USB details, here are some basics to keep in mind. The term USB DAC is a consumer friendly description of a digital to analog converter (DAC) with a universal serial bus (USB) input. This article is about USB inputs and their implementation withinDACs . One must separate the interface from the DAC as a whole to really understand what's going on and to make an educated purchase. A DAC with a so-called poor USB implementation may have the best S/PDIF implementation on the market and vice versa. Thus the sound of a DAC may vary widely based on the input used. The main thing to keep in mind when reading about adaptive and asynchronous USB modes is clocking. Clocking is extremely important with digital audio. Many digital audio experts agree that keeping the clock as close to the DAC as possible, or using a master clock for all digital components is the way to achieve the most accurate sound. In consumer high-end audio as well as professional audio clocking is a major concern and very often external master clocks are used to achieve the best sound.



Here is one way to think about USB implementations that may help readers more familiar with S/PDIF. If I were a college Professor this is where I would tell my students to never repeat this and never write this on an exam. It is forillustrative purposes only.

S/PDIF has three main specs:
1. RCA/BNC
2. Toslink
3. XLR AES/EBU

USB Isochronous audio has three main transfer modes.
1. Synchronous used primarily for ADC work.
2. Adaptive
3. Asynchronous





Adaptive Mode USB

Most USB capable DACs today use adaptive mode USB. This is commonly done using a PCM270x chip from TI and to a lessor extent the PCM290x or CMedia parts. The big plus for DAC Manufacturers when using this chip is that no programming is required. The chip can be "popped" into place without extensive R&D, USB audio programming skills, a lengthy time to market, and a substantial amount of money. Big drawbacks to this method are very limited sample rate support (32, 44.1 & 48k), maximum of 16 bit audio, and sound quality.



Another less common adaptive USB implementation is done using a TAS1020 chip. Manufacturers then have a choice of implementing the chip exactly like the PCM270x without additional programming or possibly using the example code provided by TI, or the manufacturer can purchase code from CEntrance, Inc. to use with the TAS1020. Popular devices using the CEntrance code are the Benchmark DAC1 variants, Bel Canto USB Link, and the PS Audio Perfect Wave DAC. Using the TAS1020 and CEntrance code greatly enhances the USB interface and allows native 24/96 playback without the need for additional device drivers or special software.



Some creativity is also used with each of the previous adaptive USB implementations. Some manufacturers use jitter reduction techniques such as adding an asynchronous sample rate converter. This can improve jitter measurements quite well but has also been reported to cause some fatiguing over extended listening periods. Some listeners report this as a Hi-Fi type of sound that is initially impressive, but long term listening may confirm otherwise. Another jitter reduction technique is to use an adaptive USB chip that converts directly to S/PDIF inside the DAC. The S/PDIF signal is then passed though theDAC's standard S/PDIF chip that has likely been refined for many years in countless audio products. This conversion technique can be a fairly good compromise between a simplistic adaptiveimplementation like the PCM270x chip from TI and a well done asynchronous DAC design.



Using either of the aforementioned implementations requires adaptive mode USB. When using adaptive mode USB the computer is the master clock. In layman's terms the DAC is a slave to the computer and has absolutely no control over the timing of the audio. According to digital experts the USB frames in adaptive mode introducesubstantially greater jitter into the signal than asynchronous mode. "In Adaptive mode the computer controls the audio transfer rate, and the USB device has to follow along updating the Master Clock (MCLK) every one millisecond. The USB bus runs at 12MHz, which is unrelated to the audio sample rate of any digital audio format (i.e. 44.1K requires a MCLK = 11.2896MHz). Therefore Adaptive Mode USB DACs must derive the critical master audio clock by use of a complex Frequency Synthesizer. Since the computer is handling many tasks at once, the timing of the USB audio transfers has variations. This leads to jitter in the derived clock." Says Wavelength Audio's Gordon Rankin.



Adaptive DAC information collected via USB Prober
____________________

Audio Class Specific Audio Data Format
Audio Stream Format Type Desc.
Format Type: 1 PCM
Number Of Channels: 2 STEREO
Sub Frame Size: 3
Bit Resolution: 24
Sample Frequency Type: 0x04 (Discrete)
Sample Frequency: 44100 Hz
Sample Frequency: 48000 Hz
Sample Frequency: 88200 Hz
Sample Frequency: 96000 Hz
Endpoint 0x01 - Isochronous Output
Address: 0x01 (OUT)
Attributes: 0x09 (Isochronous adaptive data endpoint)
Max Packet Size: 576
Polling Interval: 1 ms

___________________





Asynchronous Mode USB

Asynchronous USB capable DACs are few and far between. Currently Ayre, Wavelength, and dCS are the major manufacturers with asynchronous products on the market. In my opinion the reason for this lack of async DACs is simply because it's very difficult implement this technology. There is a specific skill set required to implement asynchronous USB and it's not common place in high-end audio. Implementing async USB requires a manufacturer to write its own software for the TAS1020 chip and invest thousands of hours on this part of the DAC alone. The limited number of manufacturers who've decided to take on this task instead of going with a plug n' play chip are doing it because they think the performance gains far outweigh the development pain.



Asynchronous USB essentially turns the computer into a slave device as opposed to adaptive USB which does the opposite. Thus, an asynchronous USB DAC has total control over the timing of the audio. One very important feature of asynchronous USB mode is bidirectional communication between the computer and the DAC. The computer sends audio and the DAC sends commands or instructions for the computer to follow. For example the computer's clock becomes less accurate over a given period of time and can send too much data too quickly and fill up the buffer. Asynchronous DACs will instruct the computer to slow down, thus avoiding any negative effects of a full, or empty, buffer which can manifest itself into audible dropouts and pops or clicks. According to Wavelength Audio the tail is no longer wagging the dog when using asynchronous USB mode. Plus all of this is done without additional device drivers or software installation.



Asynchrnous DAC information collected via USB Prober
__________________________

Audio Stream Format Type Desc.
Format Type: 1 PCM
Number Of Channels: 2 STEREO
Sub Frame Size: 3
Bit Resolution: 24
Sample Frequency Type: 0x04 (Discrete)
Sample Frequency: 44100 Hz
Sample Frequency: 48000 Hz
Sample Frequency: 88200 Hz
Sample Frequency: 96000 Hz

Endpoint 0x01 - Isochronous Output
Address: 0x01 (OUT)
Attributes: 0x05 (Isochronous asynchronous data endpoint)
Max Packet Size: 588
Polling Interval: 1 ms

_______________





Conclusion

There you have it, my attempt to clarify a little bit about USB audio and explain why all USB implementations are not equal. To render an opinion on the state of USB audio one must research the different technologies and listen to different implementations of each technology. Currently in my listening room I have the Ayre QB-9 asynchronous USB DAC, WavelengthCosecant asynchronous USB DAC, dCS Paganini with Puccini U-Clock asynchronous USB converter, and a number of adaptive USB implementations including the Benchmark and Bel Canto implementations using CEntrance USB code. I am comfortable saying that USB is certainly an audiophile interface and it's ready for prime time. I am not comfortable making proclamations that USB is better or worse than the all other interfaces. There are alsodifferences within USB and I do think asynchronous can be better than adaptive USB implementations provided the implementation is impeccable. Readers considering the purchase of a USB DAC or converter must listen to as many products as possible before making a decision. Reading the TAS article and this article are only the tip of the iceberg. Take everything you've read with a bit of skepticism, but don't second guess what you hear while listening to a USB DAC demo. If it sounds go to you then it's good

Nice thread. I am going digital myself, but I am not going to stream music via a network. Primarily because I don't own a home PC, and do most of my normal computing stuff on a company laptop.

However, after having an iPod + iTunes combination for 2 years, the convenience of the digital experience really made me decide that I wanted it for my home hifi setup.

So after some research, I decided to purchase a Mac Mini, put it on my hifi rack, hook it up to my LCD TV via HDMI, and control it via the Apple Remote and Front Row software. The advantage of the Mac was that it supports optical out easily so I could play with both USB and Toslink connections, and I really don't need a keyboard and mouse in the hifi room, plus I find iTunes really easy to use and the Front Row software makes it really simple to control.

Mac Mini Outputs (the audio 3.5mm jack is a combined audio / optical out jack) and a DVI adapter is supplied. It's easy to get a DVI to HDMI cable nowadays, so connecting to the TV should be a breeze.



Here's a video on the Computer Audiophile website of the Front Row interface (scroll down to the bottom).

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Wireless-Music-Distribution-Part-Three

And in future, when I want to move the Mac Mini and really use it as a PC, I guess I can just buy an Apple Airport Express since that also supports optical digital out, and at RM 390, that's affordable.

So ultimately my source: will be Mac Mini ---> DAC (still undecided which to go for)

Control will be: TV Display + Apple remote + Front Row

So, starting the purchases now, let's see how it works out.... Hopefully I can complete the project in the next month or so...and complete ripping all my CDs.. .... and hopefully the sound will be better or equivalent to my current CD player (Rega Apollo) without the inconvenience of going through 100+ CD cases to find the song I want to play

Thanks for sharing Mac Mini as network media player, though you are going to connect them wired via USB to external DAC then to your amplifier.

If you are just like audio system or 2-speaker system only, something pop up in my mind, just wonder if there is application software on ipod touch or iphone that can sync (wirelessly) with you music storage in Mac Mini, if yes, you can use ipod touch or iphone to select/control your music and also then you can do away with LCD TV. Just curious.

Yes, there is.

http://www.apple.com/itunes/remote/



Apparently, it works well, and you're right, you could do away with the LCD, I think.

However, in my case, I already have the LCD, but don't have an iPhone/iPod touch... so it's cheaper to just hook it up to the LCD, rather than shell out RM1000+ for an iPod touch, particularly since the lower spec'd Touch won't have enough capacity to hold all my songs in Lossless format anyway (that's why I have an iPod Classic, instead).

As for USB, I'm not sure... Apparently the DACs in my budget range may perform more poorly with USB than with the normal toslink / coaxial connections, so I'll probably try experimenting both with USB and a Toslink cable.

I don't see any toslink/coaxial connection available in Mac Mini, how are you going to connect Mac Mini to external DAC? The only way i can see is via USB, correct me if i am wrong.

I stored all lossless format files in my iMac (external hard disc - 300GB), i do not store all my lossless format in to my 16GB iPod touch, only select few and save them in my playlist, then sync to iPod touch, when you get bored, you can reselect and save another playlist,

The latest iTunes 9.0 offers 'genius', and 'genius mixes' , just select a song, then click 'genius' or 'genius mixes', iTunes will base on the music genre to randomly select a music playlist for you, then sync this playlist to your iPod touch/iPhone. You need not to store all lossless format in your iPod touch/iPhone.

auronthas wrote:I don't see any toslink/coaxial connection available in Mac Mini, how are you going to connect Mac Mini to external DAC? The only way i can see is via USB, correct me if i am wrong.

I stored all lossless format files in my iMac (external hard disc - 300GB), i do not store all my lossless format in to my 16GB iPod touch, only select few and save them in my playlist, then sync to iPod touch, when you get bored, you can reselect and save another playlist,

The latest iTunes 9.0 offers 'genius', and 'genius mixes' , just select a song, then click 'genius' or 'genius mixes', iTunes will base on the music genre to randomly select a music playlist for you, then sync this playlist to your iPod touch/iPhone. You need not to store all lossless format in your iPod touch/iPhone.

Yes you are wrong.

Here's the correction:

The MacMini (and Macbook and MacbookPro and MacPro) DOES have an optical digital output. You just need to get an optical cable that has a toslink head at one end, and a "optical minijack" at the other end. This is also the same cable used for Sony Minidisc players. Or u could get a piece of "Toslink to minijack" adapter and use it with any normal toslink cable.

The Mac's digital output is integrated with the analog stereo 2.5mm minijack output.

Even the sound input is a 2.5mm minijack combo that can be either be receiving plain old analog line level, or S/PDIF format optical.


Thats why Macs are so loved in the DJ'ing and Preofesional Audio Industry.


http://www.apple.com/macmini/specs.html


And for all Apple fanbois out there, the Mac can also send Dolby Digital 5.1 signal via it's optical output with the help of some 3rd party freeware drivers.


This means, you can turn your Mac into an ubergeek DVD transport in which the Audio goes out as Dolby digital 5.1 (assuming the source disc is encoded with Dolby Digital 5.1) while the video can go out via DVI and fed into a HDMI input (of some Plasma TV, LCD TV or projector) via a DVI to HDMI adapter or cable (since the video signals of DVI and HDMI are "electrically compatible") .

http://geekwithfamily.com/2007/07/05/home-theater/howto-5-easy-steps-to-output-dolby-digital-from-quicktime-player/

The current model iMacs also can do this audio input/output via optical S/PDIF.

http://www.apple.com/imac/specs.html


Dunno about the older iMac models though.
can check the older model specs at http://support.apple.com and find out.

... and Apple Airport Express too.

Combo analog/optical audio via the 2.5mm minijack.

mugenfoo wrote:... and Apple Airport Express too.

Combo analog/optical audio via the 2.5mm minijack.

Yes, the airport express is probably an effective way to stream music to the hifi system.. It supports 802.11n so the wire speed should be fast and the optical output is perfect for output to a DAC...

So, assuming you already have a PC (but no wireless router yet)

PC (via airtunes & iTunes ) ----> Airport Express -----> DAC ------> Amp

And control via Ipod touch or iPhone.

So you could get an NMP for RM390 (for airport express), RM 779 ( for basic ipod touch) and the price of an external DAC (maybe RM1000 - 1200). How does that compare to the price of a Squeezebox, assuming you are going to use the Squeezebox via an external DAC?

It's approximately the price of Squeezebox I bought and i have enjoyed it for more than two years. At least, i have another alternate digital source if one day Squeezebox die off.

Thanks for sharing Mugen and Hzarz Kar. Remember this thread is not limited to Squeezebox but network media player. The purpose of this thread is to know how many audiophiles would swift towards digital music via network media player as the poll call for which is identical to the poll called by Stereophile.

Enjoy the music

"The MacMini (and Macbook and MacbookPro and MacPro) DOES have an optical digital output. You just need to get an optical cable that has a toslink head at one end, and a "optical minijack" at the other end. This is also the same cable used for Sony Minidisc players. Or u could get a piece of "Toslink to minijack" adapter and use it with any normal toslink cable."

Q: Where to get one of these cables??

Thank you

A bit hard to find the cables here... but the adapters are easier online.

http://shop.ebay.com.my/i.html?_nkw=mini+to+optical+adapter

If you go to Singapore, you can find the adapters also at some hifi shops. I know that Musiclink AV Distribution at Beach Road sells them for SGD$5.

Or you can order the Monster cable kit for Airport express that will include a toslink-mini cable.

http://store.apple.com/my/product/M9573B/A

That's about all I've been able to find so far...

Toslink to minijack adapters are available from computer shops selling this range of computer cables and accessories under the "ICIDU" brand. Have seem then around alot at LowYat (try the PC supermarts like All-IT Hypermart and similar shop setups) an also that big IT Hypermarket at Curve Cineleisure (Mutiara D'sara).

Otherwise, i bought a "audiophile branded" QED Qunex Toslink-Minijack cable from CMY about a year or so back. Since CMY is the QED agent for MY, should be able to get them bring in such a cable without much fuss.

Thanks, mugenfoo.

May I enquire how much did you get the QED cable for?

The reason I am asking is that I had planned to use my Macbook as source and use the cable to connect to a DAC. However, I could not find such cables easily and thus bought the SB3 instead and have been using the RCA from my SB3.

However, am now itching to get a DAC to go with my SB3 and if I can source this minijack optical cable, it will provide me with an alternative to my SB3 in case streamyx go kaput!!

Thank you for your suggestions....

Will definitely drop by Low Yat and CMY when I visit KL

Cheers

cheelun wrote:

However, am now itching to get a DAC to go with my SB3 and if I can source this minijack optical cable, it will provide me with an alternative to my SB3 in case streamyx go kaput!!

Without streamyx, you are still able to stream your music via SB3 wireless or wired from your wireless router or wired router respectively. If you don't believe, disconnect your RJ11 cable from your router, your music still can be streamed via local area network. Unless you want to listen to internet radio, then you need Streamyx.