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what say you?

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what say you?

Post by azri on Thu 21 Jan 2010 - 16:53

"From May 1, the fuel will be pegged at RM3.90 per litre for RON97, while RON95 will increase to RM3.70 per litre. However, the prices of national-made vehicles will be lowered by at least 40%. For example, a full-spec family sedan Proton Persona 1.6litre engine will cost around RM23k excluding road tax and insurance. Import tax and excise duty will be revised to only 30%, from the current 200%. Imported vehicles such as the new Toyota Camry 2.4litre engine will cost around RM65k"
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Re: what say you?

Post by bryanz on Thu 21 Jan 2010 - 17:06

izzit confirmed the prices will be that high?
then im gonna sell my real soon.
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Re: what say you?

Post by bimmerman on Thu 21 Jan 2010 - 17:07

Azri, I say that is the way it should be. Why bother with the complexities of a 2 tier price structure system and penalise the middle income group.

In Malaysia, the price of cars are already so burdensome to us. Buying a decent 1.5Litre car already costs close to RM90K. We pay crazy monthly installments even if we stretch it to nine years!!! So how can we pay more for petrol? But if we can buy a decent car for RM23K for instance and we can buy it cash, then we can surely pay extra for petrol. That's the way it should be.

The government says they will maintain the petrol subsidy for the moment because the people are not ready for it to be scrapped. To that I say bullshit!!! It is the government who is not ready to scrap the crazy inport tax and excise duties on cars. Compounded further by the cheap as toilet paper Ringgit which makes cars and oil so expensive to import. The government says they spend how many billion to subsidise fuel? But did they say how much they earn from the mad excise and import duties? Surely not!
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Re: what say you?

Post by bimmerman on Thu 21 Jan 2010 - 17:09

bryanz wrote:izzit confirmed the prices will be that high?
then im gonna sell my real soon.

I think Azri is just posing a hypothetical case for discussion lah. Not real one.
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Re: what say you?

Post by bimmerman on Thu 21 Jan 2010 - 17:19

Just something to add... Imagine you tell an Australian that you earn RM3500 and you drive a RM97,000 car. They will say you're mad! What car costs RM97,000? A Porsche Cayenne? You earn so little and you drive a Porsche Cayenne?

Huh? What Porsche Cayenne? RM97,000 only buys you a Nissan Grand Livina in Malaysia. And that is the sad truth.
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Re: what say you?

Post by bassraptor on Thu 21 Jan 2010 - 20:05

azri's scenario is how it should have been from the beginning. Fuel at market prices or minimum subsidy, no duties for car or just minimal, but less flexible HP terms, ie, fewer years and higher interest.

Thus, although the cars may be cheap, you will weigh fuel costs and monthly premiums first, before jumping headlong into ownership. Surely, our PM, with his drive for a high-income economy, can see this?

Our economy has been articially buoyed for 3 or 4 decades ... slowly, that bubble is deflating.

Problem is, a few with vested interests want every bit they can earn from rakyat and the nation's resources. you know who to blame ....

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Re: what say you?

Post by WongKN on Thu 21 Jan 2010 - 20:54

Discussions like this always eventually showcase the desirability of cars like Honda Civic Hybrid or Toyota Prius. Imagine going 700km, even 1000km on a full tank (around 50litres) on a Civic Hybrid when on a outstation drive (driven sensibly lar). If Azri's scenario gets played out, as bassraptor suggested, that -is- the way it should be then.
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Re: what say you?

Post by azri on Thu 21 Jan 2010 - 21:11

its not mine, these words comes out from a minister involved & they are trying sort out with loans that had been approved to the loaners within certain periods of time. if that is solved, it may comes true. some of my relatives just bought estima aeres, which cost them around rm150k to rm220k. i know one who just recently (not even 2 month) bought a toyota veil fire at the price tag of rm500ks. can you imagine when the price goes down to like rm150k or rm180k how will it be? but what ever happens to them is none of my concern coz i can surely get a walap on my head if i ask their opinions hehe. nasib i only drive daihatsu hehe.

some said the oil price is ridiculous, but look at thailand & singapore. in australia after currency conversion the car price is about the same excepts for those luxury cars like merc, bimmer, (not volvo), porsch etc. but australians held one of the highest paid workers in the WORLD. then again the tax is pretty hectic too. you will have toreally know how to suck your money back. lets not talk about australia, & focus on bolehland. you can grow sick if you think too much of other countries that practices professionalism at high level.. if you understand what i mean.
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Re: what say you?

Post by azri on Thu 21 Jan 2010 - 21:20

i drive hybrid over here. thanks to my boss who gave me the opportunity. if you want my opinion, go for prius. civic hybrid only good for city driving, its puny 1.3 liter 8 valve will suck you dry once you take it on the highway!! average you can get 800ks from a full 42 liter prius tank. that includes everything, city driving, traffic jams, high speed on highway, waiting kids out from school etc. the latest prius comes with 1.8 liter & its even more fuel saving & more powerfull. even with the previous 1.5 liter that im driving i can do side by side with 1.8 liter audi a4. thats my personal experience. thanks to its cvt transmission & stabilized electronic system that it has which really push the car at full potential..
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Re: what say you?

Post by bimmerman on Thu 21 Jan 2010 - 21:48

Wow Azri, what happened to the Mr. One Liner we know. Never seen you commit so many words in a single forum posting within such a short span of time before.

Well, in Australia they tax you but they also give it back to you ya. Your kids go to school, the government gives you money. You get laid off, they give you money, In fact in Australia the government can't find enough ways to give your money back to you. So says a Malay friend of mine who has just migrated to Melbourne. To my dear friend, syabas Syed! Hope to see you next Raya!
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Re: what say you?

Post by azri on Thu 21 Jan 2010 - 21:57

yeah you are right.. thats why i said dont think of aussie, nnt sakit hati hehe
(opps im back to being one liner hehe.. cheers mate!!)
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Re: what say you?

Post by drife on Thu 21 Jan 2010 - 23:45

sell all the hifi equipment and start ngv business...isn't that the typical m'sian behaviour?
i wonder how many survived since ngv for family cars didn't really take off...
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Re: what say you?

Post by azri on Fri 22 Jan 2010 - 7:57

i heard somewhere proton is developing hybrids for persona
but am not sure what sort of hybrid, hopefully not the ngv
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Re: what say you?

Post by zeebee on Fri 22 Jan 2010 - 8:09

bimmerman wrote:...

Well, in Australia they tax you but they also give it back to you ya. Your kids go to school, the government gives you money. You get laid off, they give you money, In fact in Australia the government can't find enough ways to give your money back to you. So says a Malay friend of mine who has just migrated to Melbourne. To my dear friend, syabas Syed! Hope to see you next Raya!

Sure mate. those given money are mainly Dole Bludgers and Yobos mate !!!
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Re: what say you?

Post by WongKN on Fri 22 Jan 2010 - 9:21

azri wrote:i heard somewhere proton is developing hybrids for persona
but am not sure what sort of hybrid, hopefully not the ngv

Actually I am amazed how short memory Malaysians have and how unforgiving. After all the shit Proton forced us to eat over the countless years, now people are still buying Proton. Affordability is one thing but there ARE choices. The annoying thing is that even some of my motor journalist friends are pushing for Proton over Perodua. I think many Malaysian's deserve to eat the shit that Proton continues to force them to eat. I am confident if Proton ever becomes dominant again, they will go back to their old ways and will force us to eat even more shit.

Me, I'd rather buy an decade old japanese car than to even contemplate any Proton, new or used, EVER.
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Re: what say you?

Post by hangleng on Fri 22 Jan 2010 - 9:51

Used item for sale:
1. Proton Cd player
2. Honda pre-amp (Hybrid)
3. Grand Livina Monoblock
4. Persona Speaker
5. 1.5m Perodua interconnect

Pls contact my auto ops.. sorry audio show room for demo..test drive. TQ

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Re: what say you?

Post by llsaw on Fri 22 Jan 2010 - 10:02

Guys,

My 2 cents. Its probably fake. The only Skynet I know is from the Terminator movie. Also wouldn' be too hard to check bout a certain Tan Sri Anuar Ali..

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Re: what say you?

Post by hangleng on Fri 22 Jan 2010 - 14:09

It is not fake, already check and chat with Tan Sri Anuar Ali. It is genuine termination at the rear terminals. TQ

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Re: what say you?

Post by bimmerman on Fri 22 Jan 2010 - 16:11

WongKN wrote:
azri wrote:i heard somewhere proton is developing hybrids for persona
but am not sure what sort of hybrid, hopefully not the ngv

Actually I am amazed how short memory Malaysians have and how unforgiving. After all the shit Proton forced us to eat over the countless years, now people are still buying Proton. Affordability is one thing but there ARE choices. The annoying thing is that even some of my motor journalist friends are pushing for Proton over Perodua. I think many Malaysian's deserve to eat the shit that Proton continues to force them to eat. I am confident if Proton ever becomes dominant again, they will go back to their old ways and will force us to eat even more shit.

Me, I'd rather buy an decade old japanese car than to even contemplate any Proton, new or used, EVER.

My sentiments exactly. Remember the original Proton Saga which became the Iswara which became whatever. It was essentially the same car and proton just recycled it over and over again for 20 odd years and still we bought it. Well not me but many of us bought it. And now what about the Perdana? Facelifted over and over again but still the same car. They should have called it the Proton Laurel because they have been resting on this laurel for far too long already.

And remember the time when they stretched the Iswara, Wira, Perdana??? That stretching excercise has got to take the cake for automotive joke of the millenium. If JPJ is serious about hunting down "Kereta Potong dan Sambung" I suggest they start their ops at the Proton factory.

Yes, the new Saga BLM is not a bad effort and so is the Persona but have we forgotten and forgiven so quickly? Is the Saga BLM not a recycled Savvy? and the Persona not a recycled Gen2? Same thing, just that Proton has gotten better at disguising their recycled cars.

Nuff said.
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Re: what say you?

Post by azri on Fri 22 Jan 2010 - 18:12

saw & hangling, what the hell are you guys talking about?

encik bimmer, proton aroused out of a situation where theres no strong support from other car manufacturers. japan people are so stingy with knowledge & they wont share with you anything unless if you're not giving them good business return. do you know that wira's dash are original proton's design & later on being copied by mitsubishi for their lancers. look at the date of manufacture for both. proton had to developed its own business strategies including choosing the right business partner & trying to penetrate the right market. proton does face a huge challenge just like petronas. other car makers had good supports not just from other car makers but also the joint partner countries. take for instance Holden, the so called australian car brand. They've been using american brand engines GM for decades & small car models derived from daewoo. some models even just a copy & paste like holden astra & the infamous v8 monaro derives from vauxhall. until today the v8s are not original holden, its a partnership with vauxhall or GM.
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Re: what say you?

Post by cmboy on Fri 22 Jan 2010 - 21:50

Wah...Proton bash. I don't have to read every post, but I can easily guess it'll come to this sooner or later.
I only got this to say. That company cause and corner every Malaysian to pay for a car way beyond its actual value. It simply means motoring is too expensive for any Malaysian. No next import brand will be cheaper than P. Korean car was supposed to be much cheaper than P, and I heard its jacked up above P's price PURPOSELY!. You're all being screwed left right and center till kingdom come!
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Re: what say you?

Post by WongKN on Fri 22 Jan 2010 - 22:43

There is a story about the Hyundai Getz and Proton I am sure bassraptor can tell.
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Re: what say you?

Post by drife on Fri 22 Jan 2010 - 23:38

agree with Wong. thats what i've been doing all this while. i prefer driving an old sansui than put my money on a used or new Pioneer. no offense Pioneer owners, the product's only part of the reason. its the manipulation that puts me off. likewise, i'd rather pump S,C, B, E than Penas (eventhough the base fuel might come from Penas). But I get to choose and I don't take shit from anyone. I'd rather see all of this rot than to make a little effort to save it because all of this is going down the drain. actually, it is already half way there...
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Re: what say you?

Post by VS126 on Sat 23 Jan 2010 - 10:11

since we are at the proton bashing carvinal...I have this to share.
We Malaysians are paying very high prices for our own products.

Just look at the advertisment in Saudi above.

Proton Waja selling in Saudi for only RM35,673 but you and I must pay RM66,799 for the same car. (1 saudi riyal = rm0.94) Similar case in many other countries where proton are sold. Does it make any sense???

Somebody is milking us dry. To justify the price of Proton cars, they have to raise the price of all other makes. In the end we got rubbish and pay thru our nose.

Still buying Proton???
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Re: what say you?

Post by toda6866 on Sat 23 Jan 2010 - 10:19

yeah seen that somewhere in another forum



dats y i rather buy ANYTHING than proton - putting quality issues aside

proton fanboys do not take offence pls, im not talking about the car, but rather the company itself, like someone said here, shitting us all these decades

its the reason we have to pay 300% excise duty!!!

also the reason we all cant afford evo, impreza and GTRs or even BMWs, Audis and VW so on...

saving 300% every month on installments, we can even overhaul or buy a new engine every year!

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Re: what say you?

Post by jazzy939 on Sat 23 Jan 2010 - 10:25

I'm with u toda... well said!

I still don't understand why people still buying Protons.. Probably the 'cheapest' yes..?


Last edited by jazzy939 on Sat 23 Jan 2010 - 10:28; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typos)

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Re: what say you?

Post by bimmerman on Sat 23 Jan 2010 - 10:50

How long has it been since Proton started business? Almost 30 years already? "Stingy" as you claim the japanese to be with their technology, they helped Proton offload heaps of Sagas and later Wiras upon us. With that, Proton monopolised and prospered. And then Proton bought Lotus and that should have been a beginning of a new chapter for Proton. But what happened? Proton was still dumping 1980s-90s recycled Mitsubishis upon us. It's only last year we start to see some pretty decent offerings from Proton in the form of the Exora.

Slowly but surely, even the most automotively challenged buyer realised that something was amiss at Proton and bought Perodua, Hyundai, Kia dan lain lain...

Still want to blame the japanese or other car manufactures for not supporting proton? I don't think that's how it works. The japanese helped Proton monopolise and prosper and it's Proton who rested on their laurels knowing how gullable the general Malaysia car buyers are.

I say Tak Nak!
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Re: what say you?

Post by mugenfoo on Sat 23 Jan 2010 - 11:00

Lets us all be thankful that the Bolehland Gormen is not having to "Protect" some local Hi-Fi manufacturer, otherwise, the same scenario as in the car industry.... Imagine buying 1 pair of Epos speakers here is like buying 3 pairs overseas...

Although putting FOREX & the import duties aside, there are still some crazy markups from the local Distis. Like what W.K.H. is doing to Denon. Totally killing the brand locally.
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Re: what say you?

Post by WongKN on Sat 23 Jan 2010 - 11:26

Ooopps, I am sorry I seemed to have started a storm (of compliants). Not really my original intention. Sorry to Proton fans.
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Re: what say you?

Post by llsaw on Sat 23 Jan 2010 - 17:25

hangleng wrote:It is not fake, already check and chat with Tan Sri Anuar Ali. It is genuine termination at the rear terminals. TQ

OK we shall see..

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Re: what say you?

Post by azri on Sat 23 Jan 2010 - 17:34

encik bimmer, it will be a non stop debate & 'bashing' to others so i will not gives out facts & figures to explain & keep explaining. if you look around in terms of bolehland constitutional hierarchy you will notice the different between bolehland & others. not just you, even i feel frustrated because some of us need to be spoon fed, & does not know to cari makan sendiri like for the rest of their life & it involved huge amounts... per month.. per head. even in islam theres no such thing.. there can only be one Wink . & if u see other modern countries, they do have only one hihihi.. can you dig??

anywayssssss.. if its gonna be $3.90/l for fuel & $120k to own a scoobie, i will agree much & hope it will happen sooner or later What a Face


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Re: what say you?

Post by bimmerman on Sat 23 Jan 2010 - 19:15

RM3.90 per Litre kantoi lah gua punye Bimmer. But if can buy Grand Livina RM35K ok laaa...
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Re: what say you?

Post by jazzy939 on Sat 23 Jan 2010 - 19:16

What about motorbikes? Superbikes will be cheaper?

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Re: what say you?

Post by azri on Sat 23 Jan 2010 - 22:36

we'll just have to wait & see. there's no certainty on this thats for sure
in australia bikes like ducati that cost like a bomb, not bikes from japs

if these superbikes will be cheap in bolehland, than buying kapcai will be too easy & unlogical, the best thing to do are stop kapchai segmens from entering malaysian market, will that happen? tungguuuu
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Re: what say you?

Post by jazzy939 on Sun 24 Jan 2010 - 0:48

Kapchai have to be cheaper lah! With a 5 litre tank (mine), its gonna cost RM18.50 to fill as oppose to RM9 now... Ah, I know the gorment will aborlish roadtax for kapchai, 'kerana prihatin dgn masaalah rakyat'.. I can see that coming from a 'smartass' minister. Yeah, that's only 2 bucks a year!
Then the domino effect will happen.. tambang bas/teksi/bas sekolah/teksi sapu/makanan/air.... you know the drill.. PLUS the GST!
Ooopps lupa.. 'kenaikan ini tidak membebankan rakyat' or 'rakyat harus pandang positif atas kenaikan ini(masa gula naik 20sen)..

But I think it's a good move lah.. as a catalyst for a change of gorment.. kita tungguuu!

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Re: what say you?

Post by toda6866 on Sun 24 Jan 2010 - 9:08

wahhahahaha as a catalyst for a change of gomen!!!!

mayb dats y they so deperate to make changes?

anyway, its not my intention to bash proton cars, its only the protection policy dat pampered the company n burden rakyat....

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Re: what say you?

Post by bimmerman on Sun 24 Jan 2010 - 9:54

Azri, you serious atau gurau je? Is the gormen really going to reduce excise and import duty from 200% to 40%??? Serious or not? I'm planning to replace my bimmer with secondhand Avanza you see. If Gormen reduce to 40% then I can buy new Livina. You serious? When you think this will happen???
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Re: what say you?

Post by mugenfoo on Sun 24 Jan 2010 - 9:59

Forget the Livina ... get the Exora.
And from the stash u save, go get that Mark Levinson !!!
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Re: what say you?

Post by tannoy on Sun 24 Jan 2010 - 10:09

I dont think it would happen soon, just imagine what would happen if it should happened, the entire new and used car industry will be is total chaos, so will be the banks.

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Re: what say you?

Post by bimmerman on Sun 24 Jan 2010 - 10:12

Kenot lah Encik Foo, the Exora is big kar and need bigger injin otherwise manyak makan minyak le bro. Power to weight ratio tak betul for Exora lah beb. Kalau Azri punye komen tu really happens then Odyssey ataupun Stream pun boleh I konsider lah beb.
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Re: what say you?

Post by mugenfoo on Sun 24 Jan 2010 - 10:13

ok... Alphard then !
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Re: what say you?

Post by azri on Sun 24 Jan 2010 - 10:21

encik bimmer, you can never trust a word from a minister from any part of the world LOL. theres no way of confirming its goin to happen or not, one thing for sure, oil price will go up again. even in australia, i can see its already $1.43/liter for v power whereas back in 2007 when i 1st arrived in australia it was under $1.30/liter.

try to source out information regarding on this. its hard to decide, but if am you i will wait till may. but of course to wait or not is for you to decide. both have pros & cons, wait now, get more money out of old car, pay less for new car. wait till may, get less or maybe very less for old car, still pay less for new car... but theres a chance of brand new car.. what say you?

last october i went back to malaysia & managed to sell my 2001 kembara & im glad i did that. if not.. sure pening when coming back to bolehland this october. at least i have a chance to wait & see

good luck mate.. cheers What a Face
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Re: what say you?

Post by bimmerman on Sun 24 Jan 2010 - 10:23

Allo allo Encik Foo. Alphard tu lagi berat lah bro, injin pun besar bah! RM3.90 satu liter mana I mampu beb? I cari 7 seater dengan keupayaan injin 1.5 to 2.0 je. Ngerti?
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Re: what say you?

Post by mugenfoo on Sun 24 Jan 2010 - 10:35

Then ...... ride basikal and get that dCS Scarlatti system lah ! Habis Cerita.
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Re: what say you?

Post by azri on Sun 24 Jan 2010 - 10:41

alphard has hidden extra cost which is not cheap, its roadtax. considered as mini bus!!
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Re: what say you?

Post by azri on Sun 24 Jan 2010 - 10:43

i thought of grand livina too. reliable nissan tech with good fuel consumption & good aftermarket price as well. but then me wife already in love with caldina.. kanina betui.. koyak la poket
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Re: what say you?

Post by WongKN on Sun 24 Jan 2010 - 11:19

Wonder why the obsession with Grand Livina. Is it because it is affordable 7 seater ? How sure are you guys that it will be fuel economical ? From that advertisement Tan Chong put up about their consumption competition and how the one team got some incredible figure with the Grand Livina ? Don't tell me you guys fell for that con-job lock-stock and barrel. Amongst the car enthusiasts community, that advertisement was the laughing stock of the millenium !!
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Re: what say you?

Post by bimmerman on Sun 24 Jan 2010 - 11:40

Well the obsession is with the Levinson 390s, no the Livina. The Livina is just a logical choice if the gomen drops the excise and import duties because the Livina would then be the el-cheapo people carrier Nissan intended it to be. Currently my sweet spot would be the 1.3 Avanza secondhand at RM35K.
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Re: what say you?

Post by car o scope on Sun 24 Jan 2010 - 19:19

bimmerman wrote:Well the obsession is with the Levinson 390s, no the Livina. The Livina is just a logical choice if the gomen drops the excise and import duties because the Livina would then be the el-cheapo people carrier Nissan intended it to be. Currently my sweet spot would be the 1.3 Avanza secondhand at RM35K.
Hahahaha... Still thinking about Mark Levinson..
Do you dream about it every night in your sleep? Razz
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Re: what say you?

Post by bimmerman on Sun 24 Jan 2010 - 19:42

No caroscope, I do not dream about the Levinson in my sleep. Au contraire, I lie down in bed thinking about it and it's denying me of sleep. So, no sleep means no dreams until owning it becomes a reality for me.
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