DAC Opinions

wingman wrote:noodle....

Won't that clock upgrade cost get you a fairly good combination of DAC and CDP / Transport ?

Either new or used equipment?

cheers

Wingman u r correct, beside having cd94, I also own a cd99 transport matching with a PCM63 base tube dac. We r now working on PCM 1704uk base tranformer output dac which is a upgrade version of my PCM 63 tube dac. Most of the time, I play with my transport n tube dac where it's master clock r driven by vse clock.

Has anyone experirenced with the Larvy DA11?

It was rated as an affordable convertor with fairy good review all round. Just wonder.

noodle88 wrote:


Wingman u r correct, beside having cd94, I also own a cd99 transport matching with a PCM63 base tube dac. We r now working on PCM 1704uk base tranformer output dac which is a upgrade version of my PCM 63 tube dac. Most of the time, I play with my transport n tube dac where it's master clock r driven by vse clock.

This urban clock is great upgrade part. I saw its picture only got one BNC connector, How to install it? I am using cec transport + monarchy dip clock + pcm 1702 dac, But I need 2 pcs digital cable. But your system is great, Hope one day I got the chance to listen your system.

The BNC connector is for clock pulse out put. If your transport n dac using the same frequency clock then u may use the uber clock as master clock. Just run 2 x 75omp cable, one to transport n one to dac. U will get twice the benefit of the uber clock but u only pay ones....

one has to be careful about branching of clock to 2 sources. Transport freq and dac conversion frequency is differnet in which a divider is used.

I would love to connect up the dac with 8x1704UK dac with DSP + current mode output to the best transport (would prefer BNC coaxial).

Noodle....

Sure should be getting good well balanced music out from the equipment. Enjoying every moment. Musical Heaven... .

For now, I would be going for DAC's from the "Emerging Markets". There are good reviews and very positive feedback from internal / external owners as well.

Have narrowed down to these two units;

What are your views on the "DAC" sold by Audio Synthesis ??

Belmondo - 24bit/192khz

where else

Audio GD - Dac-19mk3 - 24bit/96khz

Why the difference in frequency ?

Price wise......hmmmm the earlier unit cost is much lower.

Azri...

Yes, also understand that the "Audio GD-dac-19mk3" is no longer in production and what you get are used or x-stock from dealers.

cheers

Any one can elaborate why the frequency difference and what it would be on the output quality ?

Belmondo - 24bit/192khz

where else

Audio GD - Dac-19mk3 - 24bit/96khz

cheers

CD encoding is 16bit/44.1kHz. DVD movie sound is 16bit/48kHz.

So 24bit/96kHz is more than adequate for you. It is good enough even for SACD and DVD audio. I don't think there is anything available commercially that is recorded in 24bit/192kHz yet.

CN...

Well a China made "DAC" has that specification !

cheers

My 2 sens

I am a user of Monica dac and promitheus DAC from Nicholas.
Both are made in Malaysia .
Please audition them if you can.
Both of these has a analogue type of sound .

BTW, improving power supply for any set up is desirable . You always lift a veil if done right.

Be it amp, preamp, dac etc.
kp93300

Kp.....

Where or which dealership can i audition these made in MY DAC's ?

What's the Tech sepcification comapring against the DAC's from China? Ex : Upsampling, **Bit/**Khz

cheers

hey wingman

why not audition setups with either upsampling/non-oversampling dac or both upsampling and non-oversampling dac? reviews or words of mouth may amount to ill-informed decisions, thus again i suggest auditions

i am much keen with non-oversampling dac though "enjoy" less details and "analyticality"




good luck
tlkoo

wingman wrote:Kp.....

Where or which dealership can i audition these made in MY DAC's ?

What's the Tech sepcification comapring against the DAC's from China? Ex : Upsampling, **Bit/**Khz

cheers

wingman, there is no need to chase numbers. The difference between a 24bit/96kHz and a 24bit/192kHz burr-brown chip is only around 3USD. What is more important is the supporting electronics.

You have to consider that a speaker resolution is around 11 bits. You are probably not going to hear much difference between one brand of dac from another, if both are reasonably built.

Yes, electronics are produced in large quantity and are incredibly cheap nowadays. That is inclusive of amplifiers.

tlkoo - oversampling is for reducing the noise floor.

http://www.audioholics.com/education/audio-formats-technology/upsampling-vs-oversampling-for-digital-audio/upsampling-vs-oversampling-for-digital-audio-page-2

with oversampling you hear less noise at the quietest passages. Beyond the quietest passages the music will simply overwhelm the noise. It has nothing to do with improving the 'clarity' of the music.

As for upsampling:

There is no doubt that wide bit words and super-high sampling rates
that are touted by the latest products are largely marketing.
Oversampling has been around for a very long time and has been used
extensively in audio products...

Upsampling, on the other hand, is relatively newer and debated greatly... While it is true that
upsampling does help us in attenuating the amount of jitter caused by
sampling errors and an inaccurate clock, whether this jitter is audible
or not is a point of contention.

The resolution of a speaker is 11 bits at best (this information is from the Harbeth designer. I doubt other brand of speakers is any better.) That is a staggering 32 times LESS resolution than our humble 16bits CD's! Upsample or not - the limit is on the speaker. You ain't gonna be able to hear a damm bit of difference.

Sorry - 11 bits has 16 times (2 to the power of 5) less resolution than 16bits.

Hi TL and CN...

Thanks for your response.

Well, these are some queries derived when i visited the many audio shops with products from the emerging markets and the established markets. Most of the time my queries with the dealers have gotten a bias response towards supporting their products , which I would not fault.

So the forum and the WEB is the place to get a un-biased response as these are the day to day users who have a first impression of their hardware. After which is narrowing down the hardware and auditioning.

I trust that each and every equipment ( the current ) has been built with specific sepcification for a reason; to get a clear, crystal and weighted vocal or instrument being played or to enchance the hidden or muffled vocal or instrument be it from the upsampling or downsampling or the frequency. The cost plays an integral part in any purchase, value and specification.

And also the internals could vary from the primary components being same and may vary as it channels down the circuit path between the products from both side of the divide.

Yes, I am cautious but the end result would be a equipment in my configuration which has been researched technically and justified in terms of cash spent. Most of us have a similar characteristics.

Not forgetting the end result would be a well balanced music.

Cheers

wingman wrote:Hi TL and CN...

So the forum and the WEB is the place to get a un-biased response .

....and half-truths as well!

Enjoy you search.

thanks cnyee, you mean those with upsampling have the "privilege" of more noise than those with non-oversampling? i am puzzled eh



pardon my ignorance and of course inability to comprehend


regards
tlkoo

CN Yee wrote:tlkoo - oversampling is for reducing the noise floor.

http://www.audioholics.com/education/audio-formats-technology/upsampling-vs-oversampling-for-digital-audio/upsampling-vs-oversampling-for-digital-audio-page-2

with oversampling you hear less noise at the quietest passages. Beyond the quietest passages the music will simply overwhelm the noise. It has nothing to do with improving the 'clarity' of the music.

As for upsampling:

There is no doubt that wide bit words and super-high sampling rates
that are touted by the latest products are largely marketing.
Oversampling has been around for a very long time and has been used
extensively in audio products...

Upsampling, on the other hand, is relatively newer and debated greatly... While it is true that
upsampling does help us in attenuating the amount of jitter caused by
sampling errors and an inaccurate clock, whether this jitter is audible
or not is a point of contention.

The resolution of a speaker is 11 bits at best (this information is from the Harbeth designer. I doubt other brand of speakers is any better.) That is a staggering 32 times LESS resolution than our humble 16bits CD's! Upsample or not - the limit is on the speaker. You ain't gonna be able to hear a damm bit of difference.

recalling your original objective of this thread, wingman, what have you done thus far and what are the next steps? any help required and any good experience to share?






have fun/tlkoo

wingman wrote:Hi TL and CN...

Thanks for your response.

Well, these are some queries derived when i visited the many audio shops with products from the emerging markets and the established markets. Most of the time my queries with the dealers have gotten a bias response towards supporting their products , which I would not fault.

So the forum and the WEB is the place to get a un-biased response as these are the day to day users who have a first impression of their hardware. After which is narrowing down the hardware and auditioning.

I trust that each and every equipment ( the current ) has been built with specific sepcification for a reason; to get a clear, crystal and weighted vocal or instrument being played or to enchance the hidden or muffled vocal or instrument be it from the upsampling or downsampling or the frequency. The cost plays an integral part in any purchase, value and specification.

And also the internals could vary from the primary components being same and may vary as it channels down the circuit path between the products from both side of the divide.

Yes, I am cautious but the end result would be a equipment in my configuration which has been researched technically and justified in terms of cash spent. Most of us have a similar characteristics.

Not forgetting the end result would be a well balanced music.

Cheers

tycham wrote:

wingman wrote:Hi TL and CN...

So the forum and the WEB is the place to get a un-biased response .

....and half-truths as well!

Enjoy you search.

Ty.....

My perception ; if a certain percentage of the "crowd" is giving a similar view of a paticular hardware then it can be safely taken into consideration with a listening test to justify or still in doubt then there is a need to audition the various equipments.

TL.....

To date;

I have auditioned a "TEAC" DAC ( used ) belonging to a friend of mine and there is so much of difference, Spinnig - Norah Jones - Come away with Me, with and without DAC.

Have seen the internals of both the DACs' and the components used are similar, audio grade quality and well built.

Have lined up a test with an owners who has a DAC from the emerging markets before purchase.

Price wise (comparing the above two units) the TEAC is 70% to 80% higher.

As for me, I have been swayed to a certain degree towards a DAC from the emerging market primary reason being the cost, feedback and not forgetting the internal as well.

If there is no difference after the listening test. The DAC from the emerging market would be "IT".

As one forummers says, "Consider it as a "sunken cost". Cheers to him / her.

As I would say : "Bite the Bullet and move on..."

Enjoying every moment of my hunt and the many positive feedback from each and every person in this thread / topic .

Cheers

hardworking audiophile, cny holidays worked extra hard eh



happy chap goh meh!

Worth every drop of sweat....

Happy Chap Goh Mei.....be it an adventerous,fruitfull,healthy and comes with monetary rewards moving forward.

cheers

Hi Wingman,

Have you auditioned the stello d100 signature?

Cheers

Hi Chee Lun....

Nope.

Is this DAC part of your whole setup ?

Care to write your review of this DAC ?

Which audio shop carries this product ?

cheers

Hi Wingman,

I'm sorry, i do not own this DAC. Am toying with the idea of getting it. Heard good reviews about, both locally (from one of the local blogs, can't remember which one) and internationally.

I think it cost about RM3+k.

The dealer, if i am not wrong is Rave, situated in KL. I am not from KL, so I do not know exactly where it is.

I thought maybe one should audition as much gears as possible before parting with one's hard earned moolah (those with trustfund not included )

Cheers

Hi Cheelun....

thanks.

Yeap, agreed and audition would suffice after all the reviews.

As for me, I would make that decision after this weekend auditioning of a DAC from the emerging market.

cheers

Hi Cheelun

Link to the review on HiFi Unlimited:

http://hifi-unlimited.blogspot.com/search/label/Stello

It costs ~RM3300 or thereabouts. And yes, the dealer is Rave Systems at PNB Darby Park hotel shopping centre, on the side, gr.floor. Uncle Edwin is the person to contact.

Hope this helps...

Cheers!

Hi...

Another link:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/Stello-DA100-Signature-DAC-Review

cheers

just come across this and share it about the emerging dac. Me too notice the same sentiments about more realistic instrument playing on the reference 1. some had prefered this to the Stello or the Lavry

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f7/dacmagic-vs-audio-gd-dac19-dsp1-472857/index11.html#post6437105

Hi
I think Promitheus DAC is available from Audio Image in PJ.
I am from East malaysia. Send me a PM if interested to listen.
Ideally, you should have a home audition as synergy between the components is very important.
To me,NOS or oversampling DAC technology is of lesser importance than auditioning.
You should aim for for a set up that makes you want to listen for hours and enjoying it.
kp933300

Not intending to offend nor open a can of worms but my own findings is that its very rare the CDP or CDT+DAC combi can match the true analog sound of TT in most aspects. There's too many variables and different reasons that TT and CDP cannot sound exactly the same with the same album.

I personally prefer the oversampling DAC mainly bcos i want to 'cheat'. I foresee that I will use the DAC with my Squeezebox which will mainly play mp3's and AIFF files. Being in Sabah, it is difficult to get the cd's that you want to buy. They are loads of boy bands and current pop cd's though. I had to go to Victoria music in Sg Wang to get my cd's.

I am hoping that an oversampling or upsampling DAC will so-call 'enrich' my source.

Serious listening will be through a cdp.

Another DAC that i am interested in is the XIndak DAC5. It is a tubed DAC (no usb input though). Unfortunately, Asia Sound (the dealer for Xindak) does not bring in the DAC. One will have to buy it on ebay or cattylink (without audition, of course).

Given the limitation by my location, I have yet to get my DAC ......sigh

Currently in Singapore experienceing first hand the superioririty of a Mark Levinson No.36S DAC. Astounding!!! Bringing it back to KL this friday. Watch this space...

This is good news. Bimmerman Bro, waiting for your review.

Bimmerman...

Let it loose with your comments.....will wait for your update.

CM..

Yeap... Analogue = TT. THe CDP / TT have a different audio / sound signature and it has its band of followers.

You can never rule out the possibilities .....

cheers

gotta wait till friday friends... i'm in singapore conducting a training right now. limited network connectivity... heard it at the shop and strangely it sounds very much like my Cary CD300... initial impressions only though. hope it won't disappoint. wait for me guys!

Bimmerman....

What would be the damage ?

Cost of HiFi gear in SG much lower ?

Enjoy your stay in SG.

Cheers

cost of hifi in singapore seemingly lower... if the exchange rate were 2:1 like a decade ago. but at 2.45, everything here is expensive!!! Only problem is the drain, the dreaded drain. For some reason, all the good used stuff is draining out of Malaysia because Malaysians find that they can get more money for their stuff selling to Singaporeans, Europeans, etc. I'd buy from Singapore only if I can't find it in Malaysia.

That Levinson, after conversion... More than RM10K!!!

have any of you auditioned marantz project D-1?
it utilises TDA1541AS2 double crown chip

kp93300 wrote:My 2 sens

I am a user of Monica dac and promitheus DAC from Nicholas.
Both are made in Malaysia .
Please audition them if you can.
Both of these has a analogue type of sound .

BTW, improving power supply for any set up is desirable . You always lift a veil if done right.

Be it amp, preamp, dac etc.
kp93300

hi kp93300,

I am always curious to know how the monica dac fared against the promitheus since both using the same Phillips NOS chip but no luck so far, so, mind enligthened me a bit??

thanks

i guess kp93300 lives over the sea, a-b comparison is thus available should you fly or dive over




cheers

yyleong2u wrote:

kp93300 wrote:My 2 sens

I am a user of Monica dac and promitheus DAC from Nicholas.
Both are made in Malaysia .
Please audition them if you can.
Both of these has a analogue type of sound .

BTW, improving power supply for any set up is desirable . You always lift a veil if done right.

Be it amp, preamp, dac etc.
kp93300

hi kp93300,

I am always curious to know how the monica dac fared against the promitheus since both using the same Phillips NOS chip but no luck so far, so, mind enligthened me a bit??

thanks

Bimmer.....

Thanks for the reply.

Well, guess thats where the money can be made and seller gets the extra dough for an upgrade. Likely ?

Understand also that there are lots of used gear coming in from Japan as well.

Cheers

A friend of mine is looking for a DAC. Any recommended brand for below RM1k price? Oh he wanted just a DAC and not something combine with headphone amp or anything. Thanks.

having considered the sdcard with dedicated power supply as transport, i am still comtemplating about its costs and future support. The more about digital transport is its comparisons/review not widely available. also the next emerging trend is the network media player such as tvix, bdx and others which seem to provide coaxial output and can play back wav or flac lossless files. hope to foot 1 product soon rather than jumping on some mid end product.

arremie wrote:A friend of mine is looking for a DAC. Any recommended brand for below RM1k price? Oh he wanted just a DAC and not something combine with headphone amp or anything. Thanks.

how about a audio-gd product such as compass or dac100. it is quite widely accepted overseas and malaysia.

Hi chua55,

Since you are talking on NMP, perhaps you can look for mid end NMP such as Logitech Squeezebox Duet at http://www.logitechsqueezebox.com/.

More info can be found http://www.hifi4sale.net/equipment-discussions-f6/network-music-player-logitech-slim-devices-linn-sooloos-sonos-ta-t433.htm

I'm back in Bolehland and have been enjoying the ML No.36s since yesterday. I've hooked it up to the RCA digital out of my Cary Audio and using identical Kimber KCAG interrconnects I connected both audio outs of the Cary CD300 and N0.36s to input 2 and 3 of my Krell KAV300i integrated amplifier. So this way i'm able to do a A/B comparison between the two.

I'm no Hifi reviewer and my literary skills suck so do ask questions if i've missed anything. Here goes:

I started the audition with the Mark Levinson No.36s with my favourite Jazz Cds and I listened for appromixately 1 hour. Yes, this is good sound. As good as it gets I thought to myself. This is definately beyond Hifi and this is going to sound cliche but my Jazz recordings took me directly to the performance venue. By some Madrigal magic I was there at the Blue Note between 6th Ave. & MacDougal Street, New York!!! I didn't want to return to bolehland but what to do? Every great performance has to come to an end.

Ok, how bouts the Cary then? As I switched back I mentally prepared myself for the worst. But hey, as the performance started I was back at the Blue Note again and this time I was a good few seats nearer the stage. The singer's voice seems to have changed too. Sounds like she actually put on some weight. Not fat mind you but sensually curvatious and was more relaxed and definately sweeter too. Next surprise was bass which was definately more potent but less clearly defined.

So, is it possible a RM12,000 CD player can outdo a RM20,000 plus DA converter? Well, no, not in my opinion but at these prices, the lines between good and great are blurred.

You see, compared to the Cary, the No.36s is generally better resolved all round with better extended highs and more bass detail. The Cary had bass in quantity but the Levinson has more insightful bass. Voices on the Levinson were natural without being sweet or warm but just neutral while on the Cary it's reproduction of human voice is to die for and not forgetting it's strength is it's ability to make solid state amplification sound like valve. Seriously I kid you not.

So what now? Which do I prefer? Who wins? I don't know, they're both excellent in what they do. The Levinson has bags and bags or untiring detail while the Cary also has much of that untiring detail with so much character to boot.

its the 'valve thingy' bro.. you cant beat that, thats one thing for sure

Only one thing is for sure and that one significant thing is I decided to quit Hifi yesterday. It's all a waste of money and time. Bye everyone, it was fun while it lasted.

Dude,

I was nearly going down this path as well. Did no upgrade, listened to the stereo only once a month or even less although did buy some music once in a while. Well, normal temperature don't last too long. A couple of years later back in semi full swing of things & buying more music than ever.

The morale of the story - u can't quit. The addiction will b back & bite u harder than ever eventually.

In the meantime, perhaps don't let go of your gear. U may regret later.

bimmerman wrote:Only one thing is for sure and that one significant thing is I decided to quit Hifi yesterday. It's all a waste of money and time. Bye everyone, it was fun while it lasted.

Regards,
Joe Ling