If you were to start all over again.....

carz wrote:misterslumber,

you sound quite disillusioned. what went wrong in the course of your audiophile journey ... would you care to share, so that we can avoid the pitfalls ?

I have listened to some well setup audiophile systems that is a joy to listen to, and it does not cost an arm or a leg.

I started off with a basic system - garrard, sansui and ar speakers. I was enjoying the music until I hit the hifi bug and went on a upgrading spree. Fast forward 15 years later, I have with me a pretty decent set up but still wanted better this and better that lah. I think I would have spent at least rm300k in my quest for the elusive sound. Not that the hifi didn't sound good, but I wanted better. Psychologically, I thought I heard things better with every upgrade, be it wires or tweaks or equipment. I was already neglecting what I first started, and that is to listen to the music. I realised that I was just upgrading and then trying to find fault with the system. All my old lps and cds were just rotting away in the basement. I found that I was only listening to selected good recordings and have forgotten the Abbas, Bee Gees, Lobos, Carpenters, Beatles, and what nots that I had always loved. I was snapped out of this rut when my wife and I attended Abba The Musical in London (I have to thanked her for this as I would never had gone on my own - she literally dragged me there 'cos she loved theatre) and enjoyed myself tremendously. I thought then "Hey, this is what I should be enjoying - the music!". So, I'm just enjoying what I have now and listening to the music again.

I agree with you misterlumber. Sometimes, it may be better to spend the 300k in CDs n LPs right? because of the Murphy's law, haha, one has to know where to stop, else 'll end up spending another zero just for 0.1% better sound (is that right?).

Non-linear relationships!

Strictly speaking, it is not Murphy's law you are all talking about (his 'law' says that if anything can happen, especially bad things, it usually WILL happen). What you guys are discussing about is the so-called law of 'diminishing returns'. I.e. initially you get 10% improvement for 5% outlay. But once you get to proper entry level hifi, it's more like 10% improvement for 10% outlay (in terms of increase in spending). Then you get to the so-called mid-range hifi and it's 1% improvement for 10% outlay. Get into the so-called high-end and its 0.1% improvement for 10% outlay. And so forth.

The problem is this. Getting to a satisfactory situation can be within the reach of everyone. Thereafter we get into serious diminishing return territory. However it is those diminished returns that can often make the music a lot more enjoyable (when properly done). Take the LS3/5A speaker. I have heard the typical system with this speaker and it sound nice. So the typical components which matches the LS3/5A, especially in terms of price, they bring the sound up to a very 'nice' level. But I kinow the LS3/5A can do better. Recently I experienced a system based on this speaker but mated with a proper sub (for the speaker) and rather higher end components than what would be typical for the LS3/5A. And the improvement in sound though not proportional in terms of extra dollar value is a huge improvement in terms of being able to allow me to enjoy the same music. More importantly, it delivers a performance the 'very nice' system can never hope to deliver without a similar amount of extra outlay.

Think of it this way. Repairing your car. How do you value your car ? Is it just transportation use only or do you love your car ? Are you happy to just bring your car to the under the tree mechanic or do you want a proper workshop ? Do you want any general mechanic to fix your car or you prefer the proven, trusted mechanic, or a specialist ? Are you happy with your car just functioning properly day in day out or do you spend extra for good tyres so that it's safer especially on wet roads in the rain, and you make sure you tune the car properly for max power and max fuel economy, better than stock brake pads because braking is important for safety. And so forth.

So my opinion/take is this. We MUST have the proper perspective in this hobby. First and foremost is to understand what it is that attracts us to the hobby. Is it the enjoyment of music ? That is one of the most valid reasons. But understand that better sound DO make for better enjoyment of music. And often the better the sound, the more enjoyable the music and that often simply means more expensive equipment.

Also bear in mind that for some people it is the enjoyment of hifi, i.e. the upgrading, the tweaking, the set-up tuning. For others it is how it allows him to share a 'brotherhood' with his kaki's - they love having their closest friends come over to listen together.

Even 'music lovers' can be divided into so many different segments. Pop, classical, rock, blues, jazz, even test recordings, they are all equally valid music or even 'sound' taste.

The important thing is to have a balance I feel. This is my approach. So understand that a high-end or even reference level equipment can cost an arm and a leg and more body parts but the diminished return they give - IF PROPER MATCHED AND EXPLOITED - is something a more down to earth equipment cannot deliver. It is like the difference between a tailor-made shirt versus an expensive branded one (like Guy Laroche for e.g.) or a normal branded one (like Durban for e.g.) vs an unbranded one. Understand that it is no harm to choose the unbranded one. But also we must not talk down on those who prefer the tailor made suit. IT IS PERFECTLY FINE IF WE CAN'T AFFORD THE TAILORMADE SHIRT. Myself I don't envy and yearn for one but I also don't make fun of those who can afford and wears such shirts. We all play within our own level and we SHOULD enjoy whatever level we are able to play with, never competing or judging those in the other levels.

That anyway is my humble but rather long winded opinion lar !!

Actually its the law of diminishing returns. (WongKN beat me to this phrase by posting it 1 minute earlier. His "Broadband" must be faster than mine... ).

Think of an S-curve model:

Vertical axis: sound quality
horizontal axis: $$$ spent.


Where would one want to be (or can afford to be) on the S-curve?



Murphy's law is not the right context here , as this one only applies to fukkups and shit-hitting the fan scenarios.

WongKN,

You wrote: >>>>One famous person's system for e.g. when playing Tsai Chin's "Cheen Ren de Yan Lei" (A Lover's tears) was able to make most people have watery eyes <<<<

I always enjoy your postings, it is always so insightful, and must i say, balanced.

Would you mind sharing with us the setup (amps, source, speakers, cables ..etc) of this famous person ?

Wow, WongKN always write so long! But, it makes everything clear, and so humble pulak! All are subjective! For me, 'll be music.

Sorry for the conclusion i made by overly narrow chick sight (shall learn to get the eagle one)! Thought that everyone is like me, LOL, paiseh paiseh! Same to misterlumber!

S-curve.. Won't be so bad... As long as your ears still work i guess.. I think it'll saturate to a steady-state instead.. But, not much people around can get that without a lot of debts...