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Harbeth P3ESR with soft dome tweeters

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Harbeth P3ESR with soft dome tweeters Empty Harbeth P3ESR with soft dome tweeters

Post by Anwar Fri Dec 27, 2019 3:21 pm

The Harbeth P3ESR is a highly rated speaker.  With good electronics (source, preamp and power amp), the P3ESR can really sing and sounds musical.  However, I heard lack of details and high frequency roll of with the P3ESR, which is more noticeable with high-res music.  This is consistent with Stereophile’s measurement and also SEAS specifications.

Harbeth P3ESR with soft dome tweeters Stereo10
Stereophile’s P3ESR anechoic frequency response

Harbeth P3ESR with soft dome tweeters Seas_f10
H0532-08 19TAFD/G frequency response from SEAS website

I speculate the use of SEAS 19TAFD/G Aluminium dome tweeters is due to BBC’s requirement of magnetic shielding for studio use.  The 19TAFD/G has double magnets for that purpose.

SEAS 19TFF 1 is another tweeter model from SEAS Prestige series, but it is the soft dome type.  It has much more impressive frequency response.  SEAS website describes the 19 TFF 1 as:

  • 19mm High Fidelity dome tweeter with extremely smooth and extended frequency response
  • Precoated Sonotex fabric diaphragm and suspension allows for very tight production tolerances and high consistency

Harbeth P3ESR with soft dome tweeters Seas_f11
H0737-08 19TFF 1 frequency response from SEAS website

The 19TFF 1 is also used by other speaker brands like Sonus Faber and Celestion.  It has compatible specifications with 19TAFD/G, including the mounting dimensions.  It should work with the P3ESR without any crossover modifications.  I checked the price (19TFF 1 is slightly cheaper than 19TAFD/G) and I thought it is worth modifying the P3ESR.  I ordered the SEAS 19TFF 1 fabric dome tweeters from Falcon Acoustics UK and it arrived after 10 days.

https://www.falconacoustics.co.uk/drive-units-1/seas-drive-units/seas-speakers-tweeters-drive-units/seas-19tff-1-h0737-08-tweeter-prestige-series.html

Harbeth P3ESR with soft dome tweeters Compar10

Please note that the 19TFF 1 does not have any metal cover like the original Aluminium version.  Removing the original tweeters is easy – just remove the 3 Philips screws and pull out gently.  I use the screws to pull it out, and then take out by hand.

Harbeth P3ESR with soft dome tweeters Tweete10

Please also gently remove the gasket from the original tweeters.  A plastic ruler was used to pry open the gasket, then mount the gasket to the soft dome tweeters.

Harbeth P3ESR with soft dome tweeters Gasket10

Please also note that Harbeth speakers have its tweeters' polarity inverted.  So the red wire goes to tweeter’s negative terminal and blue wire goes to tweeter’s positive terminal.

Harbeth P3ESR with soft dome tweeters Mounti10

When assembling the new soft dome tweeters, the wire terminals should be at the bottom.  Slide it in and then put back the 3 Philips screws.  Tighten by hand and do not over tighten.

Harbeth P3ESR with soft dome tweeters Assemb10

Immediately, I can hear extended highs but since it is new, break in is required.  It sounds better after a few days of use.  A lot more details can be heard but it is more refined; not as aggressive as the original tweeters.  SEAS description of the soft dome tweeter, “extremely smooth and extended frequency response” is spot on.  I don’t think I can go back to the original Aluminium tweeters.

Please note that Falcon Acoustics UK has 10% discount from 22 Dec 2019 to 5 Jan 2020.  I paid the full price without any discount, too bad.
Anwar
Anwar
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Number of posts : 148
Age : 58
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Registration date : 2011-01-08

Character sheet
Source(s): AAMS+, Marantz SA-10, Oppo UDP-205, TW Raven Two + TW 10.5 with Benz LP-S + Triplanar VII with Quintet Black, Audio Research REF Phono 2SE
Amplification: Bent Audio silver slagleformer preamp, Bryston 10B-SUB, McIntosh MC452 for front, MC303 for center and rear
Speakers: Focal Diablo Utopia III for LCR, Focal IW 1002 Be for rear, 2 x JL Audio Fathom f113 subs

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Post by WillT Fri Dec 27, 2019 3:42 pm

I have always loved how the Harbeth P3 series sound. It’s one of the most natural sounding speakers in the market.

But I myself find that the P3ESR has limited treble extension. I can only assume this is to ensure the natural reproduction of vocals. It’s the Harbeth philosophy.

Speakers like ProAc and Dynaudio give you that sparkling top end that the P3ESR does not. 

So with when the OP informed me about tweaking the little P3ESR ... I jumped on the idea. 

After waiting almost 20 days, my new SEAS twitters arrived.

Swapping it is easy.

The results? Well ...
- you immediately notice the extended highs, on the right tracks it gets airy
- the reverbs on vocals are more audible and you can hear its decay trailing away
- cymbal strikes sound ‘faster’, the initial attack on flutes are more ‘rapid’ sounding (sounding only ok, not saying it’s really faster)
- pianos and cellos sound more authoritative 
- trumpets and saxophones have a slightly more obvious metallic resonance
- vocals are sweeter, when the vocalist’s lips smack, it’s more noticeable
- there is no increased sibilant

It’s a good upgrade if you are into that sort of sound. Gonna be great in helping you get that holographic effect when using tube amps.

TQ Anwar! 😬👍👍


Harbeth P3ESR with soft dome tweeters D717b210
WillT
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Number of posts : 259
Age : 55
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Registration date : 2018-11-22

Character sheet
Source(s): Lumin U1 Mini & Matrix Audio X Sabre Pro
Amplification: Silbatone JI-107
Speakers: Graham Audio LS 8/1 and Harbeth M30.2 40th Anniversary ... REL T7x

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Post by tweakman Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:36 pm

Hi guys, do report back after running in the tweeters. I'm excited to know.

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Post by WillT Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:48 pm

I think after a couple of days should we well run in dy la. 😬

It’s like crossing a Harbeth with a ProAc. Off spring has 70% of Harbeth and 30% of ProAc 😂🤣
WillT
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Number of posts : 259
Age : 55
Location : JayBee
Registration date : 2018-11-22

Character sheet
Source(s): Lumin U1 Mini & Matrix Audio X Sabre Pro
Amplification: Silbatone JI-107
Speakers: Graham Audio LS 8/1 and Harbeth M30.2 40th Anniversary ... REL T7x

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Post by cloudstrife87 Thu Oct 08, 2020 6:55 pm

Wow just noticed this thread, never knew such tweak is possible. One of Harbeth's characteristics is the non-fatiguing sound, not sure if this tweak will cause more fatigue for long listening sessions?

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Age : 37
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Character sheet
Source(s): Rega P1 + Nagaoka MP-500 , Innuos Zenith Mk II + Chord Qutest
Amplification: Croft Micro 25R + Power 7R
Speakers: Harbeth P3ESR 40th Anniversary

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Post by WillT Thu Oct 08, 2020 9:32 pm

cloudstrife87 wrote:Wow just noticed this thread, never knew such tweak is possible. One of Harbeth's characteristics is the non-fatiguing sound, not sure if this tweak will cause more fatigue for long listening sessions?

Zero fatigue. It’s a mild improvement to the highs. Don’t hear any change to the mids or high mids. 😬
WillT
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Number of posts : 259
Age : 55
Location : JayBee
Registration date : 2018-11-22

Character sheet
Source(s): Lumin U1 Mini & Matrix Audio X Sabre Pro
Amplification: Silbatone JI-107
Speakers: Graham Audio LS 8/1 and Harbeth M30.2 40th Anniversary ... REL T7x

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Post by Anwar Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:59 pm

I can't go back to the original SEAS 19TAFD/G Aluminium dome tweeters.
Anwar
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Number of posts : 148
Age : 58
Location : Bukit Jambul, Penang
Registration date : 2011-01-08

Character sheet
Source(s): AAMS+, Marantz SA-10, Oppo UDP-205, TW Raven Two + TW 10.5 with Benz LP-S + Triplanar VII with Quintet Black, Audio Research REF Phono 2SE
Amplification: Bent Audio silver slagleformer preamp, Bryston 10B-SUB, McIntosh MC452 for front, MC303 for center and rear
Speakers: Focal Diablo Utopia III for LCR, Focal IW 1002 Be for rear, 2 x JL Audio Fathom f113 subs

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Post by cloudstrife87 Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:17 am

Thanks for the feedback! I’ve just ordered the 19TFF1 tweeters. Can’t wait to try it out!

cloudstrife87
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Number of posts : 162
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Location : Kuala Lumpur
Registration date : 2018-09-20

Character sheet
Source(s): Rega P1 + Nagaoka MP-500 , Innuos Zenith Mk II + Chord Qutest
Amplification: Croft Micro 25R + Power 7R
Speakers: Harbeth P3ESR 40th Anniversary

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Post by WillT Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:42 pm

cloudstrife87 wrote:Thanks for the feedback! I’ve just ordered the 19TFF1 tweeters. Can’t wait to try it out!

The tweeter is wired as reversed polarity ok. Note the original. Enjoy!!!
WillT
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Number of posts : 259
Age : 55
Location : JayBee
Registration date : 2018-11-22

Character sheet
Source(s): Lumin U1 Mini & Matrix Audio X Sabre Pro
Amplification: Silbatone JI-107
Speakers: Graham Audio LS 8/1 and Harbeth M30.2 40th Anniversary ... REL T7x

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Harbeth P3ESR with soft dome tweeters Empty Thank you for your Post Anwar

Post by simonc28 Tue May 11, 2021 5:11 pm

I tried to order the tweeters after reading this thread a few months ago, but the Chinese distributor didn't have them in stock and told me to check back around April. Long story short, they just arrived last night! It took no more than 10 mins to install and sounded great right off. I don't know what few more days may bring, but these speakers are total beasts now. The soundstage is much more expansive, the imaging is much more pinpoint, and there are tons more spatial details. The soundstage is very similar to what I get with my old Magnepan MG10s.
The sound is much smoother, with no more harshness when played loud (I play very loud, all the time Harbeth P3ESR with soft dome tweeters 1f605 ). The decays are lush and natural, and the timber is rich and full. Does it sound 30% like ProAc? I don't hear the zippiness of ProAc's; What I hear is the precision and clarity like ATCs, but with the sweet mids of Harbeth. Overall the integration is much more seamless than the originals. I can't understand why Harbeth is still using those metal dome tweeters in their new and 3300 USD XD versions?!?
This is a no-brainer for anyone who loves their P3s, a simple DIY project that costs peanuts but sounds like a million. Harbeth P3ESR with soft dome tweeters 1f44dHarbeth P3ESR with soft dome tweeters 1f44dHarbeth P3ESR with soft dome tweeters 1f44d  Enjoy your music.Harbeth P3ESR with soft dome tweeters 1f64fHarbeth P3ESR with soft dome tweeters 1f64fHarbeth P3ESR with soft dome tweeters 1f64f

simonc28
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Number of posts : 4
Age : 59
Location : Hong Kong
Registration date : 2021-05-11

Character sheet
Source(s): Roon, Denafrips
Amplification: Schiit Tube pre, N-Core
Speakers: Harbeth P3ESR

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Harbeth P3ESR with soft dome tweeters Empty Good that you like the P3 with soft dome SEAS tweeters

Post by Anwar Tue May 11, 2021 10:32 pm

simonc28 wrote:I tried to order the tweeters after reading this thread a few months ago, but the Chinese distributor didn't have them in stock and told me to check back around April. Long story short, they just arrived last night! It took no more than 10 mins to install and sounded great right off. I don't know what few more days may bring, but these speakers are total beasts now. The soundstage is much more expansive, the imaging is much more pinpoint, and there are tons more spatial details. The soundstage is very similar to what I get with my old Magnepan MG10s.
The sound is much smoother, with no more harshness when played loud (I play very loud, all the time Harbeth P3ESR with soft dome tweeters 1f605 ). The decays are lush and natural, and the timber is rich and full. Does it sound 30% like ProAc? I don't hear the zippiness of ProAc's; What I hear is the precision and clarity like ATCs, but with the sweet mids of Harbeth. Overall the integration is much more seamless than the originals. I can't understand why Harbeth is still using those metal dome tweeters in their new and 3300 USD XD versions?!?
This is a no-brainer for anyone who loves their P3s, a simple DIY project that costs peanuts but sounds like a million. Harbeth P3ESR with soft dome tweeters 1f44dHarbeth P3ESR with soft dome tweeters 1f44dHarbeth P3ESR with soft dome tweeters 1f44d  Enjoy your music.Harbeth P3ESR with soft dome tweeters 1f64fHarbeth P3ESR with soft dome tweeters 1f64fHarbeth P3ESR with soft dome tweeters 1f64f

Hi Simon, you are welcome.

I am happy hearing good results with your upgrade.  Enjoy your "new" P3.  it will improve further after the tweeters break in.

Which Chinese distributor your ordered from?  I ordered mine from Falcon Acoustics which is in UK.

As I said in my original post, I suspect Harbeth selected the Aluminum tweeter due to magnetic shielding requirement for studio use.
Anwar
Anwar
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Number of posts : 148
Age : 58
Location : Bukit Jambul, Penang
Registration date : 2011-01-08

Character sheet
Source(s): AAMS+, Marantz SA-10, Oppo UDP-205, TW Raven Two + TW 10.5 with Benz LP-S + Triplanar VII with Quintet Black, Audio Research REF Phono 2SE
Amplification: Bent Audio silver slagleformer preamp, Bryston 10B-SUB, McIntosh MC452 for front, MC303 for center and rear
Speakers: Focal Diablo Utopia III for LCR, Focal IW 1002 Be for rear, 2 x JL Audio Fathom f113 subs

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Post by simonc28 Tue May 11, 2021 11:00 pm

Gome Sound is the Chinese importer from Dongguan, China. My wife ordered them for me from Taobao. 330 CNY each, about the same price? Shipping is probably much less than from the UK. Back to the sound, Textures, more textures everywhere Shocked  I'll probably order more drivers from them again to fix up my other speakers in the near future Harbeth P3ESR with soft dome tweeters 263a

simonc28
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New Member

Number of posts : 4
Age : 59
Location : Hong Kong
Registration date : 2021-05-11

Character sheet
Source(s): Roon, Denafrips
Amplification: Schiit Tube pre, N-Core
Speakers: Harbeth P3ESR

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Post by simonc28 Tue May 18, 2021 11:33 am

my YouTuber friend posted my comments on his YT channel🤣🤣🤣

(link not allowed, Thomas and Stereo's community page) 

Very dramatic reactions😆😆😆

I don't mind objections, but blindly calling this a failed attempt or asking for proof of results is a bit demeaning. People can be so impolite. 😩😩😩

The synergism continues, and I've deliberately set my Roon & Tidal to a random shuffle. So for the last few days, I've listened to as many and as diverse genres and recordings as possible.   The sound continues to "wrap around" the... whole listening area. The integration is even more seamless than before and, of course, much better than with the original tweeters.  I do agree with what some objectors said; these are no longer the Harbeth P3ESRs. They have changed into something more lively, open, and dynamic.  I love them even more than ever. Is this so bad? I guess that's possible if you are incapable of... listening? 😆😆😆✌🏻

simonc28
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Number of posts : 4
Age : 59
Location : Hong Kong
Registration date : 2021-05-11

Character sheet
Source(s): Roon, Denafrips
Amplification: Schiit Tube pre, N-Core
Speakers: Harbeth P3ESR

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Post by WillT Fri May 28, 2021 10:23 am

Those objectors are just stupid fanboys. They are unable to keep an open mind. Lol
WillT
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Number of posts : 259
Age : 55
Location : JayBee
Registration date : 2018-11-22

Character sheet
Source(s): Lumin U1 Mini & Matrix Audio X Sabre Pro
Amplification: Silbatone JI-107
Speakers: Graham Audio LS 8/1 and Harbeth M30.2 40th Anniversary ... REL T7x

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Post by simonc28 Fri May 28, 2021 4:21 pm

WillT wrote:Those objectors are just stupid fanboys. They are unable to keep an open mind. Lol

in terms of costs and risk, I saw it as even lower than tube rolling. Much cheaper than some tubesHarbeth P3ESR with soft dome tweeters 1f604 
Also, this is not my first rodeo either, I've had 3/5as (or variants of) since the late '80s. I started with a pair of 2nd Linn Kans, then 2 pairs of Rogers. Still have one pair of the 15 ohms Rogers, but the XO will need some work too.Harbeth P3ESR with soft dome tweeters 1f602  I usually don't make any quick changes, it took me about 20 years before I decide to give the Harbeths a try. Of course, I had other speakers at the same time. I don't think it's against any law to own more than one pair Harbeth P3ESR with soft dome tweeters 1f604Harbeth P3ESR with soft dome tweeters 1f604Harbeth P3ESR with soft dome tweeters 1f604 Just have fun, and enjoy your music  Harbeth P3ESR with soft dome tweeters 1f64f  Harbeth P3ESR with soft dome tweeters 1f64f  Harbeth P3ESR with soft dome tweeters 1f64f

simonc28
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New Member

Number of posts : 4
Age : 59
Location : Hong Kong
Registration date : 2021-05-11

Character sheet
Source(s): Roon, Denafrips
Amplification: Schiit Tube pre, N-Core
Speakers: Harbeth P3ESR

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