Does room contribute to sound "warmth" and "coldness"??

Dear all,

Does anyone have any documents/experience regarding room structure/treatments affecting the "warmness" and "coldness" of sound played, either by hi fi or instruments?

RT60 will help u ..

That means, warmness is partially related to reverberation?

Warm sound in a nice listening room?


I gather this much after reading from the link below :"A full or warm sound comes from a system that reproduces low
frequencies well"

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/digital-versus-analog.htm/printable


So does that mean if u take care/do a good job of the bass reproduction in your listening room........u get that "Warmth"?! Bass traps, and panels, treated wall surfaces to get the bass sounding right.........but it's a very difficult task right?

Very informative and thoughtful readings. Thanks.

http://www.decware.com/acroom.htm

uncle_vic wrote:[b]Looks like the room u will/are using will determine the amount and kind of bass u are getting and consequently the amount of warmth u are seeking to find..........

Not totally true. Source and amplification matter more.

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/4/43510.html

In Reply to: RE: rebirth of the Juli@ posted by Tarkowsky on January 10, 2009 at 12:13:02

"The room itself plays a minor role, because there is so much ambiance present, that it dominates the listening room".

"Good point. I have this experience too".

uncle_vic wrote:

" There is also a
distance from the speaker to the
listener where the direct speech and the reflected sound arrive at the
same
time. In acoustics, this is known as the [b]Critical Distance."


http://www.writersservices.com/audio/your_studio.htm

How does this affect the warmth or coldness of the sound? How much elapse time is acceptable for the reflected sound to arrive after the direct sound?

Please enlighten.

Regards

Put a heater, it will be warmer...ha!Jokes aside, i do agreed with tycham. i do find it Source , amplification and wire contribute more.



KLau
www.h1f1.blogspot.com

tycham wrote:

uncle_vic wrote:[b]Looks like the room u will/are using will determine the amount and kind of bass u are getting and consequently the amount of warmth u are seeking to find..........

Not totally true. Source and amplification matter more.

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/4/43510.html

In Reply to: RE: rebirth of the Juli@ posted by Tarkowsky on January 10, 2009 at 12:13:02

"The room itself plays a minor role, because there is so much ambiance present, that it dominates the listening room".

"Good point. I have this experience too".

uncle_vic wrote:

" There is also a
distance from the speaker to the
listener where the direct speech and the reflected sound arrive at the
same
time. In acoustics, this is known as the [b]Critical Distance."


http://www.writersservices.com/audio/your_studio.htm

How does this affect the warmth or coldness of the sound? How much elapse time is acceptable for the reflected sound to arrive after the direct sound?

Please enlighten.

Regards

tycham, u forgot this part...."A full or warm sound comes from a system that reproduces low frequencies
well" ............then after u keep the bass in its 'good form'! Sometimes we may want to play around with the bass contents and mess things up with some not so suitable room treatments and wrong placements of tube traps, and spoil whatever we have already have.

why not revisit the meaning of warmth in audio sense before further discussion/debate???


http://stason.org/TULARC/entertainment/audio/general/9-14-What-do-they-mean-when-they-say-It-sounds-warm.html
Warm: Good bass, adequate low frequencies, adequate
fundamentals relative to harmonics. Not thin. Also excessive
bass or midbass. Also, pleasantly spacious, with adequate
reverberation at low frequencies. Also see Rich, Round. Warm
highs means sweet highs.


http://www.integracoustics.com/MUG/MUG/bbs/stereophile_audio-glossary.html
warm The same as dark, but less tilted. A certain amount of warmth is a normal part of musical sound.


one talks about bass/midbass while the other doesn't, so which one to follow in further discussions/debates? any golden rule of interpretation one could suggest?

in any case, i just could not agree with the former definition as midrange or high frequency range alone (without bass i.e. below 120hertz) is entitled to sound warm!!! from another perspective, i do not see the need to have well managed low frequency range to sound warm and accordingly i opine that room does not contribute to warmth and coldness

TY Cham, 1st thing one has to get the bass to come out from the equipments..........eg. can't expect bookshelfs to do lots of bass contents.........big floorstanders may do more bass contents than bookshelfs.......and floorstanders with 1 subwoofer obviously slightly more (if tuning is not overkill la).........and with more subwoofers (it's hard to imagine how overkilll one wants to get).........then the room treatments will help......the furnitures such as the soft chair(s) obviously one caters for more than 1 visitors once in a while la......the curtains over the windows.........however small piece of carpet one wants to place on the floor.....It's all about affoding some degree of control of the bass contents........one might get to what one wants.......again depends on one's requirements........there will always be bookshelf owners who will always insist he has all the bass he ever needed....and there are others who will insist his musical diets has got to have those body massage bass contents.......

@uncle_vic

Having said so much (mostly irrelevant stuff) you have yet to answer my question on the effect of critical distance and the acceptable elapse time between direct sound and reflected sound.

If you don't know or doesn't want to answer, please indicate so.

hoi uncle... why are you disregarding the latter definition of "warmth" which is quiet on bass??? no bass not warmth??? betul kah?

uncle_vic wrote:TY Cham, 1st thing one has to get the bass to come out from the equipments..........eg. can't expect bookshelfs to do lots of bass contents.........big floorstanders may do more bass contents than bookshelfs.......and floorstanders with 1 subwoofer obviously slightly more (if tuning is not overkill la).........and with more subwoofers (it's hard to imagine how overkilll one wants to get).........then the room treatments will help......the furnitures such as the soft chair(s) obviously one caters for more than 1 visitors once in a while la......the curtains over the windows.........however small piece of carpet one wants to place on the floor.....It's all about affoding some degree of control of the bass contents........one might get to what one wants.......again depends on one's requirements........there will always be bookshelf owners who will always insist he has all the bass he ever needed....and there are others who will insist his musical diets has got to have those body massage bass contents.......

hi tht89

are you "miss-taking" reverberations and reflections as "warmth"?
care to bring your familiar pieces/albums to audition with other setups???

sound to fully decay in 3 seconds??? which means very very much overlaps of sound when any piece of music is played back eh does bass linger on even longer? how to enjoy music in such room? ask for auditions with other setups mate!



good luck
tlkoo

I know I talk alot and also being the messenger of 'messages that people don't like to read'!!!

But I have a systems to let others listen to when they asked, tho I don't care to invite, but welcome those who are interested to know more about what i do with hifi pursuits besides just talking!

tlkoo wrote:hi tht89

are you "miss-taking" reverberations and reflections as "warmth"?
care to bring your familiar pieces/albums to audition with other setups???

tlkoo wrote:
sound to fully decay in 3 seconds??? which means very very much overlaps of sound when any piece of music is played back eh does bass linger on even longer? how to enjoy music in such room? ask for auditions with other setups mate!

uncle_vic wrote:
then the room treatments will help......the furnitures such as the soft chair(s) obviously one caters for more than 1 visitors once in a while la......the curtains over the windows.........however small piece of carpet one wants to place on the floor.....It's all about affoding some degree of control of the bass contents........one might get to what one wants.......again depends on one's requirements........there will always be bookshelf owners who will always insist he has all the bass he ever needed....

uncle_vic wrote:I know I talk alot and also being the messenger of 'messages that people don't like to read'!!!

Reflect on this.

"I think everyone's goal should not be to kill the messenger, he's already made up his mind and it's unlikely any rational thought will convince him otherwise, but to prevent the uncontested spread of misinformation."
Anon.

THT89 wrote:

tlkoo wrote:hi tht89

are you "miss-taking" reverberations and reflections as "warmth"?
care to bring your familiar pieces/albums to audition with other setups???

I think i didn't. Just that, personally, i feel that a room with 4 plain hard cold walls, just like medieval cathedrals sounds very cold.. Even if an organ is played. Or is that just my personal view? I'm confused, and think that they are related. And this is my current main concern! Reverb vs Warmth

since you insist to have your own definition of "warmth" i just have to wish you good luck

tlkoo wrote:

THT89 wrote:

tlkoo wrote:hi tht89

are you "miss-taking" reverberations and reflections as "warmth"?
care to bring your familiar pieces/albums to audition with other setups???

I think i didn't. Just that, personally, i feel that a room with 4 plain hard cold walls, just like medieval cathedrals sounds very cold.. Even if an organ is played. Or is that just my personal view? I'm confused, and think that they are related. And this is my current main concern! Reverb vs Warmth

since you insist to have your own definition of "warmth" i just have to wish you good luck

But if it's not related to reverb, then..

Warm: Good bass, adequate low frequencies, adequate
fundamentals relative to harmonics. Not thin. Also excessive
bass or midbass. Also, pleasantly spacious, with adequate
reverberation at low frequencies. Also see Rich, Round. Warm
highs means sweet highs.

adequate reverberation...

check your definition against this one as you have "re-quoted" though i have chosen to agree with the latter as i perceive warmth even in the absence of bass pardon me for not being able to answer your questions

I walk the talk.....leh...........nevermind if people say i talk too much........at least i have my work to show la....................

http://h1f1.blogspot.com/2010/09/my-room-acoustics.html

Have any of you heard music being played in a hall?

Allow me to suggest that :
A choir performing on a LOOP PILE carpeted stage with 2x4 structural support in a hall 130'x85' with wall panels

1. A choir
2. performing "esther" on a
3. LOOP PILE carpeted
4. 3' stage with
5. 2x4 structural support in a
6. hall
7. 130'x85' with
8. wall panels

Each of the numbers listed above is a variable. Each variable changes the perception we have of the performance. Do you agree? If we change just one variable, what becomes of the sound we hear?

Now if i change JUST ONE VARIABLE :
An orchestra performing "esther" on a WOOL CARPETED 3' stage with 2x4 structural supposet in a hall 130'x85' with wall panels
WHAT BECOMES OF THE SOUND?

Now of course - I did not even include the type of PADDING below the carpet - rubber, foam, urethane etc etc. .

The journey of sound is quite amazing. Numbers, definitions, jargon are all very important while trying to get a point across to another person. BUT THE REAL TEST is in the hearing, wouldnt you say?