NAIM CD5i vs Primare CD21 vs others.

dear all,

I am planning to upgrade my cd player to a better one. I am looking at either Naim CD5i or Primare CD21 and need some advise on them. Which will be a better choice or are there any other recommendation as well.

My current setup is Bewitch EL34, LothX ION3 Speaker and Marantz CD63. Or another choice is to do some upgrade to the Marantz CD63 (DIY Type) and not sure whether worth doing it or just get a new player.

I woul;d say neither.

If you like the Marantz sound you should consider sticking with Marantz Sacd 11 s for eg ,our something like Audio aero prima or Raysonics for example.

An alternative route is to buy a DAC like Benchmark,MSB platinum ,Grace audio or Bel Canto.

The Primare is more mainstream than Naim in its sound ,but it is more suited with very bright speakers in my experience.......

why not check out some good reviews for current CDPs at desirableaudio.blogspot.com? do check out the Bladeius, Bryston and Sony. any of these will be a better run for the money than SA11S1.

cheers,
wps

;any of these will be a better run for the money than SA11S1;.........except that the Bryston doesnt play SACD and need to be tweaked quite a bit.......and the Sony sucks at playing redbook format........and the Bladelius is nothing more than a computer based player at an inflated price,,,,,

Dear boy,have you heard the Sa11s1,or you have learned the bad habit of being an armchair critics?

i own the Sony. i am not saying that Marantz sounded better/inferior than Sony/Bryston/Bladeius, but for the buck, it is a better deal, that's all. can the Marantz output MCH or play DSD disc?

have u heard the Sony?

cheers,
wps

you hv to post your taste of music.

I have a modded cd63 and my fren prefers the modded cd63 than the naim cd5i. of course I have modded the cd63 such that it is more dynamic and transparent, with the vocal more forward (to some this is a drawback but not me).

actually the new Marantz Pearl reportedly sounded better than the SA11S1/S2 in one of HK's online forums. too bad only the Pearl has RCA out and no XLR lah. if u dont have XLR or if XLR is not important to you, u might consider the Pearl instead.

and nope, i have not heard the Pearl yet. don't mind a shootout w my Sony if any of the members here have the Pearl/SA11S1/S2.

cheers,
wps

have u heard the Sony....

of course,i wouldnt dare say otherwise,and mislead everybody here...i even drove all the way to ipoh recently to hear the Blad.embla/krell/marten bird set up in audio art ipoh........hence my opinion..

tin wrote:have u heard the Sony....

of course,i wouldnt dare say otherwise,and mislead everybody here...i even drove all the way to ipoh recently to hear the Blad.embla/krell/marten bird set up in audio art ipoh........hence my opinion..

cool! may i know where/when did u hear the Sony SCD-XA5400ES? unless u were at Panzer's place for the short time the player was being reviewed, i really wonder which showroom/house in Malaysia has it. thanks.

back to topic. other players to consider include Marantz SA7003/8003 or the older SA7001KI, heard those trio, very good bang for buck imho. Cambridge Audio Azur 840C is good too, The Star has a review of it recently. sorry, i have not heard the 840C.

cheers,
wps

nowhere in Malaysia,unfortunately but in UK..I do not think it is available here ,Right?

i was in UK too around Apr/May, but the Sony is no longer available then as it has sold out since early March! how many CDP/SACDP sold out have u heard of recently?

again, i am not saying the Marantz SA11 is inferior, i am just doubting the bang for buck factor.

from last i heard, there is no shortage of Marantz SA11S2, the current version. in terms of availability, Sony lost out at the moment as no news of it being scheduled for release in Malaysia. also, the player needs about 500 hours to burn-in. pretty long. i am only in my 120th hours.

cheers,
wps

there are many reasons why the sony did well;

1.reputed to be the last SACD sony will ever make.......

22.Quite cheap

3.Many buyers are not your typical audiophiles,......common folks who wants to try a taste of SACD.....

The SACD playback is no slouch but I can't say the same for cd playback,which I think is the predominant reason people buy a SACD player..

Anyway for anything less than 10k ,It is hard to beat Audio Aero prima[Around 6 K?]in term of musicality

dont know much about sony but the ES series is a sought after
regardless its a cdp, pre, processor or power amps

tin wrote:there are many reasons why the sony did well;

1.reputed to be the last SACD sony will ever make.......

22.Quite cheap

3.Many buyers are not your typical audiophiles,......common folks who wants to try a taste of SACD.....

The SACD playback is no slouch but I can't say the same for cd playback,which I think is the predominant reason people buy a SACD player..

Anyway for anything less than 10k ,It is hard to beat Audio Aero prima[Around 6 K?]in term of musicality

very intriguing indeed, will check out Audio Aero prima for sure. available in the coming kliav for audition? this price is quite close to the Sony MSRP.

well, put it in another way, if i mod the XA5400ES (USD$1499) using ModWright USD$2k upgrade - the total price is still cheaper than the MSRP of the Marantz SA11S2 in the US for USD$3599 - which one will sound better in RBCD? interesting indeed.

will ask my friend who has a SA11S1 for a head-to-head in about two weeks from now. see how it goes lah. just very curious as most if not all the reviews seem to indicate XA5400ES > SA11S2. S1 and S2 should be close in sound, so will listen to myself what tin meant by suck in RBCD performance of Sony.

back to topic, why not check out Yamaha CD-S2000 or the Pioneer PD-D9 MK I or the coming MK II as alternatives to Naim and Primare? check out http://puresuperaudio.blogspot.com/ for news on MK II.

i have heard S2000 and D9 MK I. D9 matches well with the Pioneer A9 amp, very good synergy, quite musical. CD-S2000 seems to unable to flex its muscle when paired with the matching A-S2000, despite that, i feel it is very detail in its sound. CD-S2000 has balanced XLR outputs.

cheers,
wps

hello junchoon:
very interesting, XA5400es vs sa11s1 in RBCD. Please let us know the the result thanks.

kkthen wrote:hello junchoon:
very interesting, XA5400es vs sa11s1 in RBCD. Please let us know the the result thanks.

here is an "old" thread about them:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=180456&page=2

it mentioned the mod and also the players. no conclusion on which is better, although a guy did say this, and i quote:

"As a person who has owned a Marantz SA-11S2 and now owns a SCD-5400ES these are two distinctly different players."

cheers,
wps

leofric32 wrote:dear all,

I am planning to upgrade my cd player to a better one. I am looking at either Naim CD5i or Primare CD21 and need some advise on them. Which will be a better choice or are there any other recommendation as well.

My current setup is Bewitch EL34, LothX ION3 Speaker and Marantz CD63. Or another choice is to do some upgrade to the Marantz CD63 (DIY Type) and not sure whether worth doing it or just get a new player.

Hi leo,Check ur PM i already sent some info...

anyone knows if the audio auro prima on display in the kliav?

thanks.

wps

junchoon wrote:anyone knows if the audio auro prima on display in the kliav?

thanks.

wps

hi joon..u can check with center circle audio but im not sure they still selling this brand o not..

fizi wrote:

junchoon wrote:anyone knows if the audio auro prima on display in the kliav?

thanks.

wps

hi joon..u can check with center circle audio but im not sure they still selling this brand o not..

thanks, will check with them loh..,

cheers,
wps

dear all,

thanks for all the valuable feedback. I have went to the KLIAV and saw most of the mentioned CDP except the Sony, Audio Auro Prima, etc..

The Bryston, Bladedius, SA11S, are all great CDP but also at a very high price which needed to have good matching components.

Just one more question, seems like all are great player and have its pros and cons, whether the high end or the mid-range, so buying any one of them does not matter much right?

leofric32 wrote:dear all,

thanks for all the valuable feedback. I have went to the KLIAV and saw most of the mentioned CDP except the Sony, Audio Auro Prima, etc..

The Bryston, Bladedius, SA11S, are all great CDP but also at a very high price which needed to have good matching components.

Just one more question, seems like all are great player and have its pros and cons, whether the high end or the mid-range, so buying any one of them does not matter much right?

if budget is concern i do not believe u can get a better deal than the Marantz SA7003/SA8003 or the older SA7001KI. go for the KI if u can, about rm2500 to RM3000. i was told Cambridge Audio 640C is pretty good bang for buck too.

next up in price bracket, u can have more options: Pioneer PD-D6 or D9; Yamaha CD-S2000 (w XLR out); Cambridge Audio 840C (RBCD only, but has digital inputs). try Sony if u can get one locally. or the superb RBCD only Creek Destiny CD player, or the Audio Aero Prima (have not heard it yet) as suggested by tin.

next up, Rega Saturn/Apollo might interest u; the Pearl is reported sounded better than SA11S2 (i doubt that, but to each his own).

going further, Bryston BCD-1 (RBCD only) or Marantz SA11S2.

have u consider Primare CD31??? not sure which price bracket lah. anyway, i was offered 2nd hand Marantz SA11S1 at rm4.2k before, if u r interested, i will check if it is available. fyi, my new Sony is more expensive after postage and commission fees for money transfer.

if u want something below rm2.5k, Oppo BDP83 is one option u should not miss. most likely i will have a unit to play with in Oct.

cheers,
wps

Looking for marantz sa11s1 , is it still available .

junchoon wrote:

leofric32 wrote:dear all,

thanks for all the valuable feedback. I have went to the KLIAV and saw most of the mentioned CDP except the Sony, Audio Auro Prima, etc..

The Bryston, Bladedius, SA11S, are all great CDP but also at a very high price which needed to have good matching components.

Just one more question, seems like all are great player and have its pros and cons, whether the high end or the mid-range, so buying any one of them does not matter much right?

if budget is concern i do not believe u can get a better deal than the Marantz SA7003/SA8003 or the older SA7001KI. go for the KI if u can, about rm2500 to RM3000. i was told Cambridge Audio 640C is pretty good bang for buck too.

next up in price bracket, u can have more options: Pioneer PD-D6 or D9; Yamaha CD-S2000 (w XLR out); Cambridge Audio 840C (RBCD only, but has digital inputs). try Sony if u can get one locally. or the superb RBCD only Creek Destiny CD player, or the Audio Aero Prima (have not heard it yet) as suggested by tin.

next up, Rega Saturn/Apollo might interest u; the Pearl is reported sounded better than SA11S2 (i doubt that, but to each his own).

going further, Bryston BCD-1 (RBCD only) or Marantz SA11S2.

have u consider Primare CD31??? not sure which price bracket lah. anyway, i was offered 2nd hand Marantz SA11S1 at rm4.2k before, if u r interested, i will check if it is available. fyi, my new Sony is more expensive after postage and commission fees for money transfer.

if u want something below rm2.5k, Oppo BDP83 is one option u should not miss. most likely i will have a unit to play with in Oct.

cheers,
wps

wah, so many people asking for marantz ahh??

sa11s1?? sold long time already. i think about 4k?? that's pretty good price lah.

why not check out an ad for Ayre CX-7e in singapore? asking for sgd2.8k only. a good player lah. about rm7k after exchange rate.

http://www.echoloft.com/cgi-bin/buysell2/YaBB.pl?board=hifi&action=display&num=1257216691

it's a different breast altogether compared with sa11s1.

cheers,
wps

robinlcc wrote:Looking for marantz sa11s1 , is it still available .

junchoon wrote:

if budget is concern i do not believe u can get a better deal than the Marantz SA7003/SA8003 or the older SA7001KI. go for the KI if u can, about rm2500 to RM3000. i was told Cambridge Audio 640C is pretty good bang for buck too.

next up in price bracket, u can have more options: Pioneer PD-D6 or D9; Yamaha CD-S2000 (w XLR out); Cambridge Audio 840C (RBCD only, but has digital inputs). try Sony if u can get one locally. or the superb RBCD only Creek Destiny CD player, or the Audio Aero Prima (have not heard it yet) as suggested by tin.

next up, Rega Saturn/Apollo might interest u; the Pearl is reported sounded better than SA11S2 (i doubt that, but to each his own).

going further, Bryston BCD-1 (RBCD only) or Marantz SA11S2.

have u consider Primare CD31??? not sure which price bracket lah. anyway, i was offered 2nd hand Marantz SA11S1 at rm4.2k before, if u r interested, i will check if it is available. fyi, my new Sony is more expensive after postage and commission fees for money transfer.

if u want something below rm2.5k, Oppo BDP83 is one option u should not miss. most likely i will have a unit to play with in Oct.

cheers,
wps

I'd owned SA11S1 for few years and sold to my friend a month ago. It was used in my PS audio pre/power/Focus788 powered by RGPC 1200i/substation/Purepower2000i/Isotek titan. In untweaked condition ( with balanced output), it was warm, muddy, moderate soundstage, slightly cold treble but the vocal was sweet and delicate. It was too warm in my Ear pre/mono/Vienna The Music setup.
With some tweakings, it was more controlled, body, weight and detail. I used it mainly for vocal listening.
I did A/B comparison with cheaper Rega Apollo( no balanced output ), the untweaked Rega sounded more controlled, detail, body, smooth, quieter,sweet vocal...it is suited for small scale music passage and would struggle in imaging during more complex music passage. However when paired with DPA Dac it sounds even better, it really reveals Focus 788 strength and imaging is never an issue. It is a better match with my 1st setup.
I have Naim CD5i ( newer version )and in rare use due to its mechanical sound nature. In untweaked condition, it sounds upfront ( I prefer laidback ), controlled, dynamic, detail, neutral vocal, sounded too bright and mechanical in my 1st setup. It is suited for pop/rock in my 2nd sys.
I've auditioned Primare cdps with Primare amp/ Proac setup, it sounded slightly cold and bright though detail with neutral vocal. I auditioned some of the US brands like Ayre, Moon...and I still prefer UK or Euro brands cdps, to my taste.
I recently bought a fast loading Oppo BDP 83 blu ray player ( to replace Pioneer ) mainly for av use and never audition it in my hifi systems. In av (with hdmi connection), it has good and wider soundstage, clear dialogue, dynamic,detail, good picture quality too. For av,the Oppo is quite a good blu ray player, you can go ahead with your purchase.

Choosing a suitable cdp should be based on your taste, good match with your system. Do more audition before purchase. Cheers.

hughesths wrote:I'd owned SA11S1 for few years and sold to my friend a month ago. It was used in my PS audio pre/power/Focus788 powered by RGPC 1200i/substation/Purepower2000i/Isotek titan. In untweaked condition ( with balanced output), it was warm, muddy, moderate soundstage, slightly cold treble but the vocal was sweet and delicate. It was too warm in my Ear pre/mono/Vienna The Music setup.
With some tweakings, it was more controlled, body, weight and detail. I used it mainly for vocal listening.
I did A/B comparison with cheaper Rega Apollo( no balanced output ), the untweaked Rega sounded more controlled, detail, body, smooth, quieter,sweet vocal...it is suited for small scale music passage and would struggle in imaging during more complex music passage. However when paired with DPA Dac it sounds even better, it really reveals Focus 788 strength and imaging is never an issue. It is a better match with my 1st setup.
I have Naim CD5i ( newer version )and in rare use due to its mechanical sound nature. In untweaked condition, it sounds upfront ( I prefer laidback ), controlled, dynamic, detail, neutral vocal, sounded too bright and mechanical in my 1st setup. It is suited for pop/rock in my 2nd sys.
I've auditioned Primare cdps with Primare amp/ Proac setup, it sounded slightly cold and bright though detail with neutral vocal. I auditioned some of the US brands like Ayre, Moon...and I still prefer UK or Euro brands cdps, to my taste.
I recently bought a fast loading Oppo BDP 83 blu ray player ( to replace Pioneer ) mainly for av use and never audition it in my hifi systems. In av (with hdmi connection), it has good and wider soundstage, clear dialogue, dynamic,detail, good picture quality too. For av,the Oppo is quite a good blu ray player, you can go ahead with your purchase.

Choosing a suitable cdp should be based on your taste, good match with your system. Do more audition before purchase. Cheers.

oh, have u tried the external clock thingie from the SA11S1, before selling it? thought possible to improve sound this way? just curious, which cdp/sacdp did u upgrade to eventually?

and yes, the oppo BDP-83 is good deal. even with the region free mod, still good pricing.

cheers,
wps

Unless your taste is mainly listening to vocal and u could find a very good price of used unit, otherwise I suggest you look elsewhere. I'm not saying SA11S1 is not good, it is, to me (personal taste), just suitable for vocal and there are many cdps ( cheaper, maybe )out there with sweet/body vocal and better with detail, grip, imaging.... more all rounder..... the untweaked cheaper Rega Apollo overall sounds better than my tweaked SA11S1 .... My intention is just want you to find a worth buy cdp.

The tweaking of equipments is only physical, I never tweak the internal circuit, my experience has showed that this physical tweakings are enough to improve the equipments performance. However there was an exception, like my previous Audible Illusion Modulus 3 Pre amp......no improvement at all with all tweakings.

Have you bought the Oppo BDP83 yet? The longer/more I use the more impression I get ( for av ). Although it is assembled in China, but the audio and video quality are comparable to Denon, Pioneer top models, it is quite a good buy. There are lots of settings and calibrations needed in order to get its best and I'm still working on it.
I already have few cdps, I will probably audition Ear Acute in the future.
Good day.

hughesths wrote:Unless your taste is mainly listening to vocal and u could find a very good price of used unit, otherwise I suggest you look elsewhere. I'm not saying SA11S1 is not good, it is, to me (personal taste), just suitable for vocal and there are many cdps ( cheaper, maybe )out there with sweet/body vocal and better with detail, grip, imaging.... more all rounder..... the untweaked cheaper Rega Apollo overall sounds better than my tweaked SA11S1 .... My intention is just want you to find a worth buy cdp.

The tweaking of equipments is only physical, I never tweak the internal circuit, my experience has showed that this physical tweakings are enough to improve the equipments performance. However there was an exception, like my previous Audible Illusion Modulus 3 Pre amp......no improvement at all with all tweakings.

Have you bought the Oppo BDP83 yet? The longer/more I use the more impression I get ( for av ). Although it is assembled in China, but the audio and video quality are comparable to Denon, Pioneer top models, it is quite a good buy. There are lots of settings and calibrations needed in order to get its best and I'm still working on it.
I already have few cdps, I will probably audition Ear Acute in the future.
Good day.

yes i did bought an OPPO, sorta. i bought a modded unit from Singapore. but it was meant for my brother in law, which bought it back with him when he balik to uk, haha. it's a pity i did not have a chance to hear how it sounded. i did inspect the physical unit, seems to be solidly build. no balanced outputs, need to mod lah.

cheers,
wps