Recommend Good AV receiver (with excellent 2 channel amp)

Can someone recommend a good AV receiver which can double as an excellent 2 channel amp ?

It should have a function to bypass digital processing to allow direct analogue 2 channel for hifi stereo (2 channel music)

I think marantz makes good AV amps with stereo capability.

I am enjoying my SR8001 for both uses in the family area.

I do agree with dheensay, Marantz make a good AV amps stereo capability with the pure direct function.

dheensay,
Thanks. Does your Marantz SR8001 have function to bypass digital processing to allow direct analogue 2 channel for hifi stereo (2 channel music) ?

Can you do this simultaneously:-
1) activate 2 channel stereo in direct analogue mode for front stereo
2) activate another 2 channel in digital mode with crossover and EQ functions (to connect this to 2 passive subwoofers)

yup marantz is the avr if u wanted a musical sounding one and wont cost u arm n leg. of course u can try arcam for 5 times more the price.

there is a direct stereo mode on most avr but sub will not function in direct mode so there's no way to do what u want simultaneously. the feature is there but only either one at a time.

Nobody so far mentioned Yamaha. Is Yamaha any good ?

i have yamaha before marantz. yamaha definitely dynamic and punchy but nothing close to marantz musicality. i found out myself listening to the end credit song at the end of every movies everytime with marantz avr lol

arremie,
what model of marantz do you have and also recommend?

mine was SR6003. i bet the high end would even sounded better such as our friend's 8001 even a bit older model. go and audition. only u can decide. the only thing i dont like about marantz is the dealership here in malaysia. the after sales support is a nitemare.

i think marantz and denon have the edge with music only material. another option is nad ...

From my understanding, most new AV amps come with all the necessary decoding for movies - Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby Digital, Dolby Pro Logic II, DTS-HD High Resolution, ....

SO when it comes to AV, the replication of sound is quite similar. You wont hear too much difference between the brands because movies are made up of a lot of talk, and life sequencing (sounds of things in the environment the scene takes place).

The complexity of music is harder to replicate than scenes from a movie. So most budget amps try to make music sound "good", which is the problem. Pure direct on the marantz functions to reproduce what the source is playing - to me thats "good".

Like Dheensay, I'm using a lower rung Marantz (SR7001) for my multichannel listening (SACD, DV_A and movies) with another set up (Densen's and Pathos) strictly for stereo. IMHO, music from the Marantz (in stereo) ranks quite well compared with the others in my set. But as mentioned earlier, when you buy an AV amp, features like the DTS, Dolby plus now the 3D thingy should be considered as well .

My 2 sens..

i'm also in the market for an AV amp, under Rm2k ... I'm amazed at what Onkyo, Denon, Harman kardon and Pioneer can cram in for the price ... if I wanted for dual use - hifi and AV - i'd look at Marantz or NAD ... since I'm not, it's going to be a Pioneer, Denon or Onkyo ... have gone thru a number of Yamaha in past, now need a change!

BR,
Yeah. I researched quite a bit on the entry and mid level Av amps from the regular brands. Honestly, hardly any difference when it comes to playing movies. 70watt vs 125watt ?? In reality we aren't going to be running them on extremely high volume levels often.

From entry to mid, some additional features are worthwhile - upscaling, HDMI inputs, Outputs, control functions etc. But really, I didnt find much use for these. So the 8001 although some years old was a great secondhand buy and coupled with energy take speakers - produced good sound.

Comparing this to the bedroom gear - epos m5 + primare i20 + marantz cd 6003, I actually prefer the marantz sound. Quite funny like that.

try sony ES series, be it if its used unit.. worth the money. unless if you are into hdmi setup than the up to date models are more relevant.

dheensay is right, replication of sound are quite similar of them. what differentiates are the way they design how to operate the AVRs & movies playback formats off course. like for instance once you are used to yamaha operating system, you may not like or having troubles operating HK or ONKYO avrs in early stage. formats on playback varies, the best so far off course the latest, DTS-HD. ive tried this with various blu-ray movies & it works brilliant. besides having 1080p, the differents on formats are huge. as for 3d, ive tried 3d movies on cinema, 3d gaming on sony packages & decided its not my gem. it hurts my eyes after sometime, you can feel tired after hours of usage & limited source at this stage.. plus.. its expensive.. cheers

I do like sony ES series, it is good even stereo playback and it even has phono input. What av receiver that has this phono input?

Actually there was no budget quoted. Given that, the range of recommendations can be very wide indeed !

When I was using my A/V system as a source of music, I bought (used), first a set of Arcam Xeta AV pre and an Arcam Alpha 8 power amp. This was quite the best solution for the requirement at that time. The Xeta AV processor has built-in amp for center and rear channels and a pre-out for the main channel which goes to the Alpha 8 power. So when playing A/V all the speakers are in use. When playing music, the Alpha 8 supplies the main amplification. Best of both worlds ! (subjected to the limitation that the Xeta is A/V and not pure music). My only problem with this setup was that the Xeta being so old, does not have proper 5.1 channel decoding, not even basic AC3 5.1. So I had to upgrade it eventually.

So if budget allows, an up-to-date AV processor with separate power amps would be an option. You can use a 5-channel amp for the rear and center channels of a 7.1 system. Then get a very good power amp for the main/front channels. If you have an amp with two sets of speaker outputs (ideally switchable) like the Alpha 8, you can actually use two sets of front speakers ! The requirement for speakers for A/V, music, and karaoke are actually quite diverse, enough that you will not get best results by a single 'generic' speaker unless you go extremely high-end.

Thanks, everyone who has responded. Considering buying used, budget of RM2 to 3K

How important is the HDMI connect on the AV receiver ? Will i miss anything not using them ?

What i thought is typically, you connect your Blue Ray / DVD player's HDMI output directly to the LCD TV, and then the audio out to the AV receiver. What would the HDMI in/outs on AV receiver be used for ....is it for switching multiple HDMI devices or more ?

I am also new to HDMI v1.3 and 1.4. What are in these that compared to the older version? Can these be updated through firmware updates ?

While theoretically connecting the HDMI directly to TV will give best picture quality, the problem is the TrueHD soundtrack is usually delivered via the HDMI connection. At least this is the way it is with the more affordable players and receivers I have checked. This means if you play a BluRay disc and wants to listen to the TrueHD soundtrack, you still need the HDMI connected to the receiver first. I have not found an affordable receiver that outputs the TrueHD signal via the standard digital coaxial or optical output. I think people like HTKAKI would probably know more.

Normal coaxial / optical digital cable does not support True HD / DTS MA simply because of the size of band width data. These digital cables only manages to carry conventional DTS / DD.

You can still get HD sound without HDMI, which is connect the BD player 5.1 / 7.1 analog out into the av's multichannel in, provided your BD player has the 5.1 / 7.1 analog out. Normally budget player only has 2 channel out.

And if you do connect them using analog, please don't use the FOC cables as the result will be horrible.

Carz,

once you're gone down the stereo hifi path and you want to find an AV that can match it, you will need to spend MEGA BUCKS!!! So what most music lovers do is have a separate set for AV to satisfy the family. Of course not everyone have the luxury of space and $ for 2 set of systems.

Next option? Get a power amp on top of the AV amp. A friend of mine was all AV and has the Yamaha RXV-1900, which was about RM4.5k and pushes something like 120-130W per channel. My Dared MP-5 hybrid valve amp, which was about RM1k and does 13W will slap it silly for stereo music use. Of course, it's a pain in the rear to plug and unplug speaker cables and interconnects every time he moves between AV and music so he started looking for an Integrated Amp with AV Bypass. Problem is, integrated amps with AV Bypass are usually the high end ones, costing more than 5k.

I suggested that he consider the Dared DV-6C. It got an excellent review from 6Moons and after about a month of searching for a used integrated amp, he finally gave up and ordered the Dared DV-6C from Singapore. Result? He agreed completely with the review. Music sounds excellent via the DV-6C and AV has moved up 1 level in terms of sound quality.

FYI, the DV-6C has 5.1 channel input and a separate stereo input so you don't even need to worry about any Direct Bypass on the AV amp. My friend uses RCA direct from his Denon DVD to the DV-6C stereo input. Note that he's only using 2 channels on the DV-6C, front left and right. The rest remains on the Yamaha.

After adding the DV-6C, he noted that his Yamaha can drive the surround channels much better. Surround effects are much more pronounced now because the Yamaha has a lot more juice driving 3 channels instead of 5.

When I want to setup my AV, I will look for a cheaper AV amp and pair it with the DV-6C. If you think having 2 box of amp is too much to handle and prefer just an AV amp? Marantz will give you the best for stereo music and OK AV. NAD or Arcam are better of course, but they also cost more than 5k?

Bottom line is, you need to compromise if you have a budget. What's good for AV, won't be good for music. What's good for music will sound tame for AV. Decide which is your priority, then it'll be easier to choose.

Lastly, don't forget that it's all a matching game. Pair your amp with a set of suitable speakers and they will sing. Otherwise, it's a compromise and a waste of your $. Enjoy your shopping.

im pretty sure true HD/DTS format is available through optical as thats what i've been using for the past 6 months since the 1st day i start enjoying BD movies. from ps3 it splits into two, optical & HDMI. optical goes straight to receiver & HDMI to tv. the difference on BD DTS & digital 5.1 on dvd is like day & night. it makes my small center (boston CR-1) sounds huge, whereas in the 1st place i thought of swapping that center for bigger size to get better mids soundstage & im glad i did not proceed.

Bro azri,

Quoted from wikipedia:

"Dolby TrueHD may be transported to AV receivers in 5.1 or 7.1 channels, at lossless quality, in one of three ways depending on player and/or receiver support[3]:

* Over 6 or 8 RCA connectors as analog audio, using the player's internal decoder and digital-to-analog converter (DAC).
* Over HDMI 1.1 (or higher) connections as 6- or 8-channel Linear PCM, using the player's decoder and the AV receiver's DAC.
* Over HDMI 1.3 (or higher) connections as the original TrueHD bitstream, with decoding and DAC both done by the AV receiver."

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_TrueHD

If you google around you can find that it has been widely discussed.

AVforum link regarding PS3 and optical: http://www.avforums.com/forums/ps3/616935-will-ps3-ever-throw-out-true-hd-sounds-over-optical.html

What I understand is that the avr will downmix the lossless True HD / DTS-MA signal into normal DD/ DTS and pass through optical into the avr.

alex,
* Over HDMI 1.1 (or higher) connections as 6- or 8-channel Linear PCM, using the player's decoder and the AV receiver's DAC.
* Over HDMI 1.3 (or higher) connections as the original TrueHD bitstream, with decoding and DAC both done by the AV receiver."

What is the difference in sound between Dolby TrueHD transported over HDMI 1.1 and 1.3 above. When i see the specs on an older AV units with HDMI 1.2 or older, they don't have Dolby TrueHD support.

I thought Dolby TrueHD is available only through HDMI 1.3 and above ?

What if I am a 2 channel guy with an occasional need for av? What can I do?

For discussion sake, I already own a tube integrated for my 2 channel kicks. But I want to watch movies in the weekend. I have my DVD connected to my tv but the sounds sucks. Can't hear the conversation very well. What is my best solution? Can the dv6 help out in this particular predicament?

Ease of use and cost is definitely a factor.

Anyone can help?

Hi carz,

From my layman's understanding, HDMI 1.3 will passthrough the lossless signal into avr & let the avr do processing. The player does not do any decoding.

On the other hand HDMI 1.1 will send the signal as LPCM, meaning that prior sending to avr the player will do internal decoding using its own DAC.

So if you intend to do decoding using your player, the sound quality will heavily depended on the quality of internal DAC. Once the signal sent to avr, your avr will display it as LPCM, worry not although it doesn't display as HD sound but you are getting them.

I have tried both on my Dune Prime 3.0 but can't notice any difference. But my best bet is passthrough is the best and let the avr do the decoding.

Hi cheelun,

You can always add an avr (with front pre out to connect your integrated amp) to drive additional center and surround speakers.

With this, you can keep the front speaker as it is for both duty.

Dear Alex,

Do u mean that the front pre-out of the aver will go to one of the integrated inputs?

When I want to see a movie, I will have to switch both the integrated and the avr on but I will not have to relocate my speaker cable (the amp end) ?

Cheers

cheelun,

Do u mean that the front pre-out of the aver will go to one of the integrated inputs? Yes

When I want to see a movie, I will have to switch both the integrated and the avr on but I will not have to relocate my speaker cable (the amp end) ? Yes

Some readings for you http://community.whathifi.com/forums/p/332568/332593.aspx

In fact I have done this and it is brilliant. You just need to make sure your avr has the front pre out.

Cheers

Dear Alex,

Thanks a million, mate.

Alex answered it pretty thoroughly and I can only add that I have actually used this mode before. I was using Audiolab 8000A integrated into a pair of Boston Audio floorstanders, doubling duty as hifi and AV speakers. Later I purchased the Arcam Xeta AV processor (used) and had it modified to accept 5.1 channel input. The Xeta has built in power for front and rear so I simply added a front and rear pair of speakers. The only constraint I had was that I had to buy DVD players with built in decoders and then use 6 cables (2 pairs + center and subwoofer) from DVD to Xeta. For my case, I did not have my 8000A modified to activate the power-in. Rather I had the Xeta front channel output fed into one of the normal inputs of the 8000A. This meant that AV was a bit compromised as the front channel signal went through two voume controls (Xeta and 8000A), but it still sounded great. Most importantly was the hifi portion was at its optimum. I also had a Boston subwoofer. The system changed a lot since then of course. But at that time, it was the best value for money and most importantly, it works.

alex, you're right abut the format. no trueHD through optical on ps3, just checked them out just now. but im still enjoying DTS from BDs. until bolehland has outlet to rent BDs i wont be upgrading.

azri, as the matter of fact there are such services at the moment, renting bds on movies and games if I am not mistaken.

Came across such website in lowyat forum.

You interested? I try to look around, but where is your location?

azri, as I have highlighted in the thread on those 'pariahed' BRs, Mediaplex at MidValley already has a Blu-Ray club for some time now. Go check them out and let us know their quality of service la.

Cheelun,

If your DVD has processed output (5.1 channel output), all you need is a pair of RCA, connect it to front left and right to your amp and you're done. That's what I'm using from my Oppo to my 8000A. Otherwise, you'll need an AV amp with pre-out as what Alex suggested. DV-6C is a power amp so it will not do any surround decoding.