Re: hi rez music -- questions from a newbie

by sflam on Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:15 am

elhefe wrote:
I do agree with the emperor here. Upsampling does not necessarily makes the music sound better but different. It may not be everyone's cup of tea.

i hv noticed that different dacs have different results when upsampling.

with one dac, there was more sibilance when the track was upsampled.

with another, the cd rip sounded better when upsampled to 96 but did not sound so good when upsampled to 192.

with yet another, the cd rip sounded clearer but 'artificial' when upsampled to 96.

so upsampling is not a cure-all.

often a cd rip sounds best at its native 16/44.1.

by VS126 on Fri Aug 12, 2011 7:41 am

Gentleman, pls write from experience and not just guessing.

If anyone want to experience firsthand, I have upsampled 24/96 and 24/192 file using latest Weiss Saracon software and non upsampled 16/44.1 of same album.

Play it on a proper system, you might think otherwise.

The sense of space btw instruments, better soundstage, smoother, better mids and much deeper bass and airier highs.

Of course this is my personal experience, your view may vary.

by carz on Fri Aug 12, 2011 7:45 am

sflam,

what software did you use to upsample the files ?

by **elhefe** on Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:46 am

I thought all the contibutors here have made it clear that their opinion was bsaed on experience hands on.

Interesting note on using proper system. What it would be then, the proper system to play hi rez music? Is there any specialised kit to be used in order to get the best out of hi rez? Or is the software or DAC that matters most?

But then again, it will still go back to one's preference.

VS126 wrote:Gentleman, pls write from experience and not just guessing.

If anyone want to experience firsthand, I have upsampled 24/96 and 24/192 file using latest Weiss Saracon software and non upsampled 16/44.1 of same album.

Play it on a proper system, you might think otherwise.

The sense of space btw instruments, better soundstage, smoother, better mids and much deeper bass and airier highs.

Of course this is my personal experience, your view may vary.

by VS126 on Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:15 am

In audio, everything matters. It is just how far you want to go and how fat is yr wallet.

When one upsampled using free ware like Rbrain against USD2000+ software like saracon, results wld not be the same.

But the term used is still the same...upsampled files.

So it is not fair to write off something based on limited experience.

As per proper system, a small bookshelf speaker with limited LF isn't going to tell you much about bass improvement. Or how airy the highs will be for speaker that can only go up to 18,000 hz as compared to those that can do 40,000hz.

The same hirez file wld sound normal in a small limited frequency budget system but fantastic in a higher end system.

Personal preference, Yes but there is a general concensus on good sound.

by **elhefe** on Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:26 am

Thats what I thought. Software definitely plays an important role.

I would have thought speakers as well since upsampling is playing with frequency.

Question: Is upsampling by a software similar to upsampling by a DAC?

by **WongKN** on Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:28 am

elhefe wrote:Pleaaassseee...not BERSIH 3.0

sflam wrote:
mugenfoo wrote:
This is total Heresy. But you guys voted me the Emperor.... LOL!!!

it's time to organise a revolution and overthrow the heretical emperor!

We can always call it KOTOR 1.0 ! Laughing

You guys can do it. I will only watch. For I am the Watcher and I am not allowed to interfere (anyone know where this is quoted from ? Very Happy

)

by **WongKN** on Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:37 am

Personally when upsampled, the improved clarity and openness in the highs is worthwhile but for my case, I hear issues with many places in the rest of the sound. So personally I want the improvements of up-sampling but only if the degradation can be limited. Again, personally I would prefer to upsample from 'compatible' formats, i.e. if starting from 16/44.1, then upsample to 16/88.2 or 24/88.2. If I want 24/96, ideally start with 24/48. No matter how good the algorithm used is, changing the sampling from 44.1 to 96 implies almost all the data points will be replaced. Problem is very few music comes in native 24/48 format. The ones I want are usually in 16/44.1.

Perhaps the Weiss software might do a good job but for personal preference, I prefer to 'reuse' the 'real' data as much as possible. So in theory, even the Weiss software should deliver best results if upsampling 16/44 to 24/88 or 24/176. One of these days I might decide to test it out. Who knows, maybe mugen might beat me to it. His bekside seems to be more itchy than mine lately Laughing

by musicmusic on Fri Aug 12, 2011 12:10 pm

VS126 wrote: As per proper system, a small bookshelf speaker with limited LF isn't going to tell you much about bass improvement. Or how airy the highs will be for speaker that can only go up to 18,000 hz as compared to those that can do 40,000hz.

The same hirez file wld sound normal in a small limited frequency budget system but fantastic in a higher end system.

Straightforward answer without all the technical gobbledygook. This is the ultimate truth. You deserve a green line.

Many overlooked the fact that most recordings were made for ordinary speakers.

It is not unusual, for recording engineers to filter out frequencies below 40hz or 30hz to avoid drivers and amplifiers distortion since most consumer speakers are flat only up to 60hz or 80hz and amplifiers often overworked and distort when it dips too low.

by mugenfoo on Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:56 pm

WongKN wrote:
elhefe wrote:Pleaaassseee...not BERSIH 3.0

sflam wrote:
mugenfoo wrote:
This is total Heresy. But you guys voted me the Emperor.... LOL!!!

it's time to organise a revolution and overthrow the heretical emperor!

We can always call it KOTOR 1.0 !
You guys can do it. I will only watch. For I am the Watcher and I am not allowed to interfere (anyone know where this is quoted from ? )

"watcher".. Hmmm, ini macam kaki Skodeng ni !

by sflam on Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:54 pm

carz wrote:

what software did you use to upsample the files ?

no special software. many dacs come with a switch which you press to upsample to 96 or 192.

vs126 wrote:
If anyone want to experience firsthand, I have upsampled 24/96 and 24/192 file using latest Weiss Saracon software and non upsampled 16/44.1 of same album.

vs126, upsampling with weiss saracon software will definitely give better results than with normal dacs with upsampling feature.

weiss makes components for the pro market and if i am not wrong some recording studios use weiss saracon.

i hv not used the weiss saracon, but i hv heard the weiss dac (the older version) and it's very good, among the best out there.

by **WongKN** on Fri Aug 12, 2011 4:23 pm

mugenfoo wrote:
WongKN wrote:
elhefe wrote:Pleaaassseee...not BERSIH 3.0

sflam wrote:
mugenfoo wrote:
This is total Heresy. But you guys voted me the Emperor.... LOL!!!

it's time to organise a revolution and overthrow the heretical emperor!

We can always call it KOTOR 1.0 !
You guys can do it. I will only watch. For I am the Watcher and I am not allowed to interfere (anyone know where this is quoted from ? )

"watcher".. Hmmm, ini macam kaki Skodeng ni !

He is one of the celestial beings in the Marvel comics universe. Along with beings like Eternity and his ying half Infiniti. Or Lord Order and Master Chaos. Or Galactus. The Living Tribunal. Etc. Very Happy

by sflam on Fri Aug 12, 2011 4:34 pm

vs126,

i hv two files of classical chinese music from kent poon's (the hong kong digital sifu) website - one is a native 16/44.1 and the other is an upsampled 24/96 version of the same song using - if i am not wrong - weiss saracon.

the upsampled file sounded clearer, more open and transparent.

by VS126 on Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:06 pm

Kent Poon offer in his hirez blueray three different version of resolution.

16/44.1, 24/96 and 24/192 for people to differenciate or appreciate hirez.

Once you heard the 24/96 or 192, you wld not want to listen to 16/44.1

(I wld rate native hirez is better than the weiss upsampled file but the upsampled file is clearly way above 16/44.1).

Slam, FYI. the older Weiss DAC ie minerva or DAC2 loses out to newer dacs like W4S DAC2 etc.

(If anyone wants to try, just download RBrain and upsample yr 16.44.1 file and compare to the original. As I hv mentioned, the RBrain is inferior to the saracon).

I think there is a lot of misconception on CAS.

by sflam on Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:43 pm

vs126 wrote

the older Weiss DAC ie minerva or DAC2 loses out to newer dacs like W4S DAC2 etc.

i hv heard the w4s dac2 too and am very impressed, esp since it's very affordable. but i hv not compared it with the weiss dac2 side by side.

by mugenfoo on Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:45 pm

Interesting link:
http://www.mikecollins.plus.com/PUBLICATIONS/PDFS/dCS_192%20kHz.pdf

Now that the dCS 904 ADC is already obsolete, perhaps I'd better put this on my X'mas wish: a Weiss ADC2. Smile