Turntable Options - looking for an antidote

Hi, I see many TT sifus here, so may I hijack to ask a question - what is your opinion of Clearaudio Unify Carbon 9" tonearm? I see comments that Clearaudio is "bright" and VPI "darker". Would a VPI JMW 10.5 arm be a better buy than Unify? Any user experiences here? My cartridge is Lyra Helikon&Dorian and my current arm is Kuzma Stogi S - my penchant for unipivots, would the Clearaudio/VPi be upgrade or not?

Hello CLH.

Perhaps those who commented on whether the CA is "bright" or a VPI being "darker" is most likely referring to visual appearances and not giving a truly subjective sonic comment. LOL.


Just sharing some personal experiences from having mounted, fiddled, dismantled and re-mounted a 9" CA Unify arm, i must say that the arm is very well built. But it does have some peculiarities in setting it up.
Like most unipivot arms, care must be taken to ensure that the CG is nicely balanced and that the uni-pivot bearing is not unduly biased towards one side. Some setups might have have the arm skewed too much off-centre and then compensated with the azimuth instead which works, but IMO is not ideal. A better way would be to slightly offset the Counter-weight such that the big metal can that houses over the unipivot sits as vertical as possible.

Other things to look out for would be the cable twist as it does induce a certain amount of anti-stake or pro-skate forces depending on how you mount the tonearm cable grip on its base.

Once set up properly, the CA unify is an extraordinarily revealing tonearm, provided the cartridge is up to mark as well.


But since you are already on a Kuzma Stogi S and its quite a good arm already ... I don't reckon a CA Unify would be that big of an upgrade unless you're having tonearm/cart compatibility issues. Not sure about the VPI arms though but that super long JWM Memorial arm does look very tempting as well, if you can accommodate a 11~12" arm that is!


Perhaps a better upgrade path to consider would be a better cartridge instead ? Perhaps a Clearaudio Stradivari V2 or a Benz Micro Ebony which is easily a few notches up from a Helikon.

May I ask what Phono stage are you using now?

hi, if i may barge in for a bit..

I know a place where you can get a Goldmund Studio with matching arm and catridge for just slightly above RM11k....

where?

Bear in mind this is a used unit. I will PM you with the shop name and contact number.

Hi Mugenfoo, thanks for the comments & tips. Well, on CMY's webpage shows the price Clearaudio Unify 9" tonearm price was discounted from RM11k+ to RM7k+ , so an Audiogon sale item of an unused CA Unify 9" at just USD700+ (MSRP USD2,300) complete set with cable & packing box, was tempting, hence the check with you guys before parting with my money. But the tonearm was sold the very next day....

the local pricing for Clearaudio products is just too inflated. not a basis for any comparison at all...

MF,



Where and how do you compare the prices for Clearaudio products?



I usually use UK as my reference to see whether the local producst are sold higher than the market or not;

When you are ready .. just PM ..

Aiyah, waste time lar. Just buy that Goldmund Studio la !

Elhefe - All roads lead to Rome ...

I've been without my system for 4 nights now.... Heading home today from sunny and rainy Phuket and this thread is making the split from holiday mode to real-life mode a little easier.

Maybe I'll go audition Clearaudio again, seeing as the speakers I'm waiting on have yet to hit our shores.

Very interesting discussion here. Just to add some flavour to the discussion, anyone here ever heard of Scheu Analog. I am currently using the Scheu Premier II with a classic tonearm, The uni-pivot tone arm looks crude but if properly set up tracks like a hound dog. Anyone else have had experience with this TT?

Save your bucks. Just get a vintage LP12 and throw in a Denon DL103R onto the Ittok. It's the best bang for bucks that is as musical as it comes. I have setup my spare TT at my friend's house as I have realized that one can extend his hobby to his friend's house as equipment needs to be run otherwise it will just go.

He is enjoying it thoroughly as it's the full monty at his place now. A pair of classic Tannoy Mercury S from the 80s, the Euphonic Reseach Pre+Power designed by my pal, 1 Goldenote Stibbert + 1 Cary Audio Phono to support the TT plus cables thrown in. He had the Clearaudio Concerto mounted earlier but I swapped it with the DL103R as the compliance wasn't suitable for a SME arm. I think he is really screwed.

If you are into musicality for bucks, nothing beats the unmodified LP12. Try to get one with the dark cover with an Ittok arm. A well setup LP12 will keep you smiling for a long long time.

Elhefe,

Got one LP12 with Grace 707 arm for sale now. And a ProJect TT as well. But after all these...

waste time only la, just get the Goldmund Studio !!

Is there a studio for sale? Much more expensive though but I can do with a birthday present.

Yes but actually someone is eyeing it already.

But of it is not sold yet then it may end up with me tomorrow?

Good to see such a healthy enthusiasm for record players and analog playback here !

Apparently more enthusiasm for LPs than for SETs

brabusm wrote:But of it is not sold yet then it may end up with me tomorrow?

Aiks, I was so blur yesterday. I didn't realize you were actually asking for contact information from me. My apologies. I will PM you the details of the turntable and arm, and also the contact number in a short while. Sorry ya !

Getting some poison (demo-ing) for Project RPM 9.1 this Friday

brabusm wrote:If you are into musicality for bucks, nothing beats the unmodified LP12. Try to get one with the dark cover with an Ittok arm. A well setup LP12 will keep you smiling for a long long time.

The only thing I'll agree is "a well setup LP12" will sing all the good notes. As for "unmodified", various LP12's through the ages are with various stages of "improved or upgraded" parts. Perhaps I'll assume "unmodified" as say a 1979 or 1989 unit have remained the same when it left the factory, no tweaks, 3rd party or swapped parts from another batch. Having said this, there's quite significant change or superior sound quality from among the earliest to current batch. There's numerous factors and reasons that contribute to the diffference in the SQ delivery, not just the tonearm or cartridge or cables. I have to mention that some very old or dated mechanical parts do need to be upgraded to some newer build and the SQ improvement is very noticible (of course mine have some of it). I sometimes liken the LP12 to the LS3/5a speaker where most of them can sound different in varying degrees. Seemingly, one ongoing rage is exchanging the old wood plinth for something very superior, now found at 3rd party vendors who supply new plinths hand crafted from rare, exotic wood, and finally beautifully finished to the highest degree. I'm also looking at this angle as my ultimate upgrade.

LP sounds livelier than CD. Period.

Just had a dose of Clearaudio Concept.

Will listen to Project 9.1 this Friday hopefully, then can decide.

Thx all for the poison.

That's the way to go man. The Clearaudio, the ProJect, perhaps VPI, then Linn LP12. After that, enough wasting time la. Just go get the Goldmund Studio !!

elhefe,



after swallowing so much poison, i'm surprised u r still around...

I also want in to this poison !

WongKN,

In the words of my son, I dont want to friend you anymore hehehhe. Goldmund studio out of my reach. This Clearaudio also have to eat maggi for a year.

WongKN wrote:That's the way to go man. The Clearaudio, the ProJect, perhaps VPI, then Linn LP12. After that, enough wasting time la. Just go get the Goldmund Studio !!

Got diarrhea already from this poison.... Hehhehehe

sflam wrote:elhefe,



after swallowing so much poison, i'm surprised u r still around...

joeling wrote:I also want in to this poison !

Lets put it in a better light ... call it sonic "enlightenment".
LOL

Joeling, you want to be the giver or the taker ?

MF, sonic enlightenment, I like it. Like 'phono linearizer' right ?

JediSavant wrote:Apparently more enthusiasm for LPs than for SETs

Not true. I listen to both my CD and LP but is is always on a SET.

it's way to go.

WongKN wrote:

brabusm wrote:But of it is not sold yet then it may end up with me tomorrow?

Aiks, I was so blur yesterday. I didn't realize you were actually asking for contact information from me. My apologies. I will PM you the details of the turntable and arm, and also the contact number in a short while. Sorry ya !

Thanks

Questions:

1. What dictates a good phono stage?

2. Does it need to be the same brand with the TT to maintain same sound signature?

WongKN wrote:That's the way to go man. The Clearaudio, the ProJect, perhaps VPI, then Linn LP12. After that, enough wasting time la. Just go get the Goldmund Studio !!

Don't forget the Oracle Delphi with SME V and also a Bastin Garrard 401 with a Schroeder Arm.

elhefe wrote:
1. What dictates a good phono stage?

2. Does it need to be the same brand with the TT to maintain same sound signature?

1) i feel that a good phono stage shld hv multiple equalisation curves cos many records were cut with curves other than the riaa curve. try adrian's aime phono stage. u can chk it at audio image. while u r there u can also listen to the artemis turntable with shroeder tonearm.
warning: just listen only - DON'T swallow this poison. sure die one.

2) it's not necessary to hv phono stage from same manufacturer as the tt. also no need to hv phono stage from same manufacturer of cartridge.
having said that, the dynavector phono stage is said to match the dynavector cartridges very well.

Ah yes, Oracle Delphi. I forgot. Elhefe, Oracle Delphi also very good ! Esp with SME V arm. I know where you can get a used one !!

And the Artemis....

sflam wrote:

elhefe wrote:
1. What dictates a good phono stage?

2. Does it need to be the same brand with the TT to maintain same sound signature?

1) i feel that a good phono stage shld hv multiple equalisation curves cos many records were cut with curves other than the riaa curve. try adrian's aime phono stage. u can chk it at audio image. while u r there u can also listen to the artemis turntable with shroeder tonearm.
warning: just listen only - DON'T swallow this poison. sure die one.

2) it's not necessary to hv phono stage from same manufacturer as the tt. also no need to hv phono stage from same manufacturer of cartridge.
having said that, the dynavector phono stage is said to match the dynavector cartridges very well.

To be really objective here, unless you are a vintage collector of old LPs or happen to inherit a stash of really old LPs from the 50s-60s era, then only would you need a multicurve Phono. Otherwise for alot of newcomers into LP in today's era, there really isn't any real need for multicurve settings.

What's more important is the flexibility of the Loading & Gain adjustments to properly match for cartridge characteristics and also your system sensitivity. This is far more important than having pre-RIAA curve settings in a phono stage.

Loading adjustability should be for both resistance and cpacitance, and a generous range of gain settings is always a welcome bonus.

IMO, the Dynavector phono (more specifically, the P-75 mk2) is a rather mediocre unit. Easily bested by the local AIME unit any time, any day.
Compared to the entry level AIME unit, the Dynavector is more susceptible to hum problems, and much less flexible when it comes to gain and loading settings.

And don't get sucked into chasing for that "original issue" pressing of
some so-and-so LP. Present-day re-issues are more often a safer bet and
one would enjoy the music better with the LP being freshly pressed and
in a brand-new condition vs. some 30 year old vinyl that looked like a
flock of chickens just walked all over it or even the more sinister type
of damage that can't be seen visually which is in-groove damage. And
this is only revealed once you play the record.

Musical Fidelity has a good looking and adjustable curve phono stage....

but is it "good sounding" which is more important...

You read my mind. The M1 ViNYL phono stage is tempting but not knowing its performance will make it difficult for me to purchase.

JediSavant wrote:Musical Fidelity has a good looking and adjustable curve phono stage....

More questions:

1. For brand new TT, what is usually offered as a warranty? As in what is covered? I see a lot of fiddly parts, so I am concerned of the warranty. Does it cover tonearm, cartridge, PSU, motor, belt?

The important features that I look for in a phono stage are the gain and loading adjustment. On top of that, the bigger the available range of adjustment the better. After experiencing a poisonous phono amp borrowed from my friend, I conclude that my current phono lacks the gain and dynamics which is, sad to say, unable to fully enleash the capability of the turntable.



I do not have the budget to get one yet but at least, I know which to consider when money is enough. The joy of testing poisons!!

car o scope wrote:The important features that I look for in a phono stage are the gain and loading adjustment. On top of that, the bigger the available range of adjustment the better. After experiencing a poisonous phono amp borrowed from my friend, I conclude that my current phono lacks the gain and dynamics which is, sad to say, unable to fully enleash the capability of the turntable.



I do not have the budget to get one yet but at least, I know which to consider when money is enough. The joy of testing poisons!!

Nothing less than a phono linearizer....can make an el cheapo TT sound like a Rolls Royce ...

elhefe wrote:You read my mind. The M1 ViNYL phono stage is tempting but not knowing its performance will make it difficult for me to purchase.

More questions:

1. For brand new TT, what is usually offered as a
warranty? As in what is covered? I see a lot of fiddly parts, so I am
concerned of the warranty. Does it cover tonearm, cartridge, PSU, motor,
belt?

There are many things involved in setting up a TT which just make things complicated, since auditions are difficult as most components may not be readily available as dealers will only use what they have in store. Apart from TT and phono stage, there are also a myriad of cartridges to consider. Most of the time folks will just go by recommendations on the forum or sales pitch by dealers. There is no bad choice as settling down with a mediocre component will also produce good music. :-) You won't know it once you try the better stuff.

Many good phono stage recommendations above from sflam and Mugenfoo. Don't disregard our local phono stage built by Audio Image which can perform better than most costlier branded stuff out there.

The issue of warranty on parts is pretty standard I presume in that warranty is covered for mechanical failures. There are definitely a lot of fiddly parts on a TT, so make sure you handle it properly especially the tone arm. Mishandling of the tonearm ie. a slight knock on the cartridge may break the fragile stylus on the cartridge. And that is human failure not covered by warranty. :-)

bassraptor wrote:
Nothing less than a phono linearizer....can make an el cheapo TT sound like a Rolls Royce ...

Fuh yoh!! The price is also like Rolls-Royce in hi-fi already. But then, I prefer a Lamborghini more than a Roller. Step on the gas hard and it is hard to maintain a straight or linear line.

The FM phono is very good indeed and I have the fortune of listening to an earlier model early this year (or was it last year.... I forgot). For those with deep-deep pockets and wallets that weighs a ton, this is a good choice to also consider as well.

For elhefe, since there are already people interested in the Goldmund Studio, perhaps he should look at the Oracle Delphi instead. So...

stop wasting time lar, just get the Oracle Delphi + SME !!

WongKN must be making some commission for always pushing for Oracle.

He will be making an announcement soon that he is the MY appointed rep for Oracle products in the coming weeks.

WongKN = Oracle = character from The Matrix

I am already known as the Oracle from the Temple of VTEC what. Of all people, the two of you should know already right ?

Oracle not expensive enough la. I prefer to go for FM.

Aiya, stop wasting time la, just buy the Oracle Delphi + SME la !!!!!

Good times good times:

http://asia.vtec.net/Reviews/20CivicRev/index3.html

WongKN wrote:I am already known as the Oracle from the Temple of VTEC what. Of all people, the two of you should know already right ?

Oracle not expensive enough la. I prefer to go for FM.

Aiya, stop wasting time la, just buy the Oracle Delphi + SME la !!!!!