The "$$$ Expensive $$$" Super Snake Oils of the "audiophile" industry

Anyone who spend more than RM2k for a complete set of hifi system is getting him or herself the Snake oil treatment.

Heck, I drank some of it too.. So far my life is very enriching, and my spirit is high; my hearing senses has improved too.. haha

I bet I could hear the system sounded dirty when I a week of dust settled on my equipment .

So Boys and Gals, let not worry of drinking the snake oil.. it is an elixir of life for the Audiophiles. As much as we wanna insinuate those who created it, and laugh at those who bought it..we unconscious drank it by the gallon... Now those who have got RM50k system; you are some of the healthiest audiophiles ever for consuming so much.. hahaha. Seriously, I've been daydreaming sometime now, that I will be in this group of healthy snake oil consuming group in the near future.

Heck, I drank some of it too.. So far my life is very enriching, and my
spirit is high; my hearing senses has improved too.. haha

You drink it!!!! I thought you are suppose to apply it behind your ears!

no la.. need to drink it.. hahaha.

Elhefe and I had a brief listening session with the tube-on-top-of-the-speaker technique yesterday, and in the highly uncontrolled environment, using highly un-audiophile type music such as Joe Bonamassa, Nirvana and Coldplay.... we couldn't detect any differences in sound quality.

Either my speakers are crap, cables are crap, or amplifier is crap, turntable is crap, phono stage is crap, or more simply, the snake oil was just unswallowable.

But I am not willing to say that this myth has been busted.

Stay tuned.

Transmission ends.

JediSavant wrote: ...
Either my speakers are crap, cables are crap, or amplifier is crap, turntable is crap, phono stage is crap, or more simply, the snake oil was just unswallowable.

But I am not willing to say that this myth has been busted.

Stay tuned.

Transmission ends.

Nola, you are wrong on all counts.

Didn't I explain it clearly enough already ? Your snake oil was crap. You cannot just use any cheapo tube you find lying around. You need to buy one of the -proper- snake oil branded tubes. Pasar malam tubes tak bolih pakai la. The branded snake oil tube must first be certified by a hifi 'guru' to be true snake oil and must come with accompanying reviews from previously unheard of audiophile publications citing tremendous improvements from its use. But I think if our very own MF certifies it also good enough la. It must be expensive, the more expensive the better. Didn't you read the new title of this thread ? You did not see all the $$$$ our resident guru put there meh ?

I think if you sell all your limbs and get one of those guru certified, internet reviewed super snake-oil tubes from coconut audio, you and elhefe will probably fall to the floor !

Because you'd probably would have also sold your chair as well to pay for it, so no chair to sit in now !!

but i used sovtek tubes...

I stuck just 1 tube upside down like a bat on the ceiling 1 inch away from the wall behind the speakers. I used a blown mullard 12ax7 and also tried a good Westinghouse 12au7. Both produced the same results by adding some sparkle to piano pieces as well as acoustic guitar. Effect is subtle but it's definitely there. Did not try EL34 as I was told larger tubes are not effective.

JediSavant wrote:Elhefe and I had a brief listening session with the tube-on-top-of-the-speaker technique yesterday, and in the highly uncontrolled environment, using highly un-audiophile type music such as Joe Bonamassa, Nirvana and Coldplay.... we couldn't detect any differences in sound quality.

Either my speakers are crap, cables are crap, or amplifier is crap, turntable is crap, phono stage is crap, or more simply, the snake oil was just unswallowable.

But I am not willing to say that this myth has been busted.

Stay tuned.

Transmission ends.

The difference is in the highs

oi, u guys seriouly one or not? Or just trying to pull each other leg here?

Anyway, I suggest u put a drinking glass on top of the speaker, this one guaranteee works. The effect is generally like listening to a high sensitivity speaker, pricky

Joke aside, you guys infact can get this cork smashed footer.. those u can find at the supermarket. selling in a pack of 10 to 12. This one will truly have effect, putting it on top or side of your speaker. I strongly believe this has been re-branded at snake oil price in another country..

I shall try tonight with household light bulbs and report back if there are similar findings.

I I shall try with Philips, Osram, Sylvania variants to see (hear) which ones can give more effects on the highs especially.

JediSavant wrote:Elhefe and I had a brief listening session with the tube-on-top-of-the-speaker technique yesterday, and in the highly uncontrolled environment, using highly un-audiophile type music such as Joe Bonamassa, Nirvana and Coldplay.... we couldn't detect any differences in sound quality.

Either my speakers are crap, cables are crap, or amplifier is crap, turntable is crap, phono stage is crap, or more simply, the snake oil was just unswallowable.

But I am not willing to say that this myth has been busted.

Stay tuned.

Transmission ends.

I think it was Joe, Kurt and Chris whom do not know how to write good songs hehehehe... Thats why we could not hear the difference between tube or tubeless...

Heck even the the Getz LP we played, could not hear any difference.

Hhhhhmmm... I lost track. What are we actually trying to achieve by adding tubes, bulbs etc? Seriously, is our system really that bad that we need to add all these? I always wonder why the speaker designers never actually thought of putting a tube on top of the speaker design in the first place.

Yesterday session, testing out tubes is one thing but I was more focussed on TWO NEW SHINY hifi kit at Jedi's that produced good and clean music character.

I use a tube with diamond bottom and hang it direct from the ceiling with nylon strings. the effect was greater when I use a 1955 tube.

kakibook wrote:I use a tube with diamond bottom and hang it direct from the ceiling with nylon strings. the effect was greater when I use a 1955 tube.

Whats the effect kakibook?

I removed my ceiling fan and installed a crystal chandelier. Serious. Next I'm planning to replace all the china crystals with Waterfords.

from mid to high. next I use a A4 carton box and put 1 behind each speaker. This works on the lows but of course a 845 tube is required on each carton box.

kakibook wrote:from mid to high. next I use a A4 carton box and put 1 behind each speaker. This works on the lows but of course a 845 tube is required on each carton box.

Excellent KKB!

I did almost the same thing as you did but with a metal box instead of a cardboard box and some transformers attached to "transform" the sound. I used 3 valves instead of 1. As you can see from the picture, I use a 300B, a 211 and a 6sl7. They're even wired to glow for maximum "Psycho-Acoustic" effect. My brains "psycho" me into thinking i'm hearing the best midrange in the world!

Come for a listen will ya!

Isnt this is what we call music. I have been wondering for years for another element of music which is called space. it is like stepping in a small room to get the sound of cinema. you want the music play like a stage, concert hall with michael jackson singing while running from left to right 15m in a 4m room. To have that psycho-acoustic effects, I cut the the wood into uneven strips and stick them to the wall to form pyramids of the so call analcoic room. still cant get it.



so can someone tips me a method that I can have that elusive sense of SPACE. the biggest snake oil method wins.

Ooooooo... I only managed a 8meter wide room in a 4meter constraint. I can't help you there but here's somebody who can.

call 1-800-franck-tchang

Hi rocketman,

The JPS is not sneak oil. From what I understand that day u did use a UK to US plug adeptor, by doing this ur LIVE and NEUTRAL is being inverted. That's why u can't hear the different. Do give it another try with the right polarity this time, I'm sure there will be different.

Cheers,

noodle88 wrote:Hi rocketman,

The JPS is not sneak oil. From what I understand that day u did use a UK to US plug adeptor, by doing this ur LIVE and NEUTRAL is being inverted. That's why u can't hear the different. Do give it another try with the right polarity this time, I'm sure there will be different.

Cheers,

Hi Bro,
Oh no no no. You got it seriously wrong. I didnt say the JPS is snake oil. I just said it didnt work on my system.

One tweak that works for me is RF filter. I stuck a DIY filter between my elcheapo power cord and the electronics and I got quieter and darker back ground. But, it narrows the sound stage.
Well, I suppose you cant have the cake and eat it.

Rocket, do give Noodler's suggestion a try. Get the polarity correct and you might just have that cake and eat it.

Rocketman,

The JPS don't work in ur system due to LIVE and NEUTRAL being inverted!!!
This is a major mistake bro! Ones u get ur power line tune correctly, u will be able to hear the different eventhough a slight changes in ur system.

Hi Bimmer and Noodle,
Thanks bro. Will have to arrange to give it a try again.
Cheers.

Rocket, you will be pleasantly surprised by the results of correct polarity.

elhefe wrote:

Sflam, rocketman,

In all honesty, do you really believe there is no difference between numerous brands of speaker cables, power cords etc? And in your current set up, you are using the power cord that came with your unit and for speaker wires, the red and black thin wires?

This is a sincere question as I have come across a few ppl whom is a keen believer that all these accesories do not make a different but will never reveal what they use. I was once a true believer as well but after I heard how a few cables and cords performed, I was converted.

i am now using a diy power cord with furutech plugs connected to my power amp. this diy power cord can take on branded power cords costing from RM1,500 to RM6,000.

i just bought a pair of used japanese balanced interconnects for RM280 (retail price is around RM500) and these can take on american balanced interconnects which used to retail at RM6,000. i am now using the cheap interconnects and am planning to sell the expensive ones.

as for speaker cables, i am still looking for el cheapos that are giant killers.

sometimes the power supply sections of components are so well designed that power cords do not make a difference and you can use the stock power cord or even a kettle cord. the wadia cd player is one good example. the mark levinson power amp is another good example.

when i tested the mit z strip power distributor, a kettle cord worked very well connecting it to the wall plug.

btw has anyone bought the siltech royal signature emperor crown speaker cables on sale in hifi4sale? going for only RM81,990 (nego).

Wow ! This thread is ON FIRE !!!

mugenfoo wrote:
I shall try tonight with household light bulbs and report back if there are similar findings.

I I shall try with Philips, Osram, Sylvania variants to see (hear) which ones can give more effects on the highs especially.

hmmm, my fear is that with the light bulbs, the sound may become too bright..

Hmmm... seems like everyone has really gone snake-oil mad !! My apologies to DrWho whom I believe sincerely suggested a tweak for people to try out but it looks like my post was most probably what started all these madness.

mugenfoo wrote:I shall try tonight with household light bulbs and report back if there are similar findings.

I I shall try with Philips, Osram, Sylvania variants to see (hear) which ones can give more effects on the highs especially.

In order to up the ante against the resident guru, I shall try using flourescent tubes from Philips as well as Osram. Since it is a lot higher than your light bulb, I wonder whether I can get super tweeter or beryllium tweeter result from a soft dome tweeter.

Waste time only. Go straight to Xenon HIDs.

Tak boleh. Too bright lah. Telinga sakit oh.

On a more serious note, does cable make a difference ? Well, this is AV and not strictly hi-fi but it is probably something you guys are interested in. And I know someone will be sniggering after he reads this story. He already loudly called me a cheapskate when I bought the initial cable.

Basically, I just installed a 32" Sharp LCD TV in my bedroom. As source, I used my old Samsung BluRay player (since replaced it with a SONY S380) and a SONY DVD as backup. Since I only had 1 spare pair of HDMI cable, I decided to buy another so I don't have to swap it between the Samsung and Sony. As the Samsung basically plays everything the Sony can play except VCDs, I decided to save and got the cheapest HDMI cable I can find at the I/T supermart at the Curve (where the cinemas are) for use on the Sony. DVD, 480p only what. Cheap is good !

But once home I used it between the TV and the Samsung BR first simply for convenience because I had swapped the existing HDMI cable to the Sony the night before. When I power on the Samsung, the Samsung background picture appeared on the TV but only for a few seconds after which the screen turns blank. Suspecting that it was due to the player's settings, I use the video out to connect to the TV and checked but everything was OK. The samsung played fine through the video out. But using HDMI, the power on picture always appeared only for a few seconds, the screen went blank.

It finally occurred to me to do my due deligence and to swap the HDMI cables between the players. Presto, the Samsung now works fine but the Sony doesn't output any picture to the TV !

Today I bought another, just only slightly more expensive HDMI cable from Buffalo, and it worked fine.

So, again this is real physical proof, cables do make a difference because in this case, an incompatible HDMI cable won't transfer picture properly. I suspect it could be the Samsung/Sony are only HDMI 1.3 while the cable is supposedly HDMI 1.3a though I highly doubt this is the case.

htkaki wrote:Tak boleh. Too bright lah. Telinga sakit oh.

Can lah ! It would extend the highs of your CDs from 22kHz to over 100kHz, thus giving it better high frequency extension than even vinyls !!!

No, it is not for the HDMI cable case as many argue sampai mati and popped a vien. The 1.3a ver is to support deep colour so it has nothing to do with the intermittent disruption of signal.

It could be a bad cable which I experienced before. The HDMI 1.3, 1.3a as well as the new 1.4 works fine for all BD players. Any signal loss like in your case is due to the quality of the construction of cable itself or it has been bended more than 70deg that could probably strained or broken the fine cables.

Since we are talking about HDMI cable, I had once tested a WHF 5 Star award HDMI cable. I was utterly disappointed that the Panasonic white HDMI cable actually sounded better with better clarity and more open. To add salt into wound, it is FREE punya.

Somehow, I am not sure why HDMi cable make a difference (a can of worm and hot LZ) since theoretically it is only passing 10101010 signal.

Btw, I am still using cheap HDMI cables from monoprice, FREE cables such as Giraffee, Panasonic, etc.

WongKN wrote:

htkaki wrote:Tak boleh. Too bright lah. Telinga sakit oh.

Can lah ! It would extend the highs of your CDs from 22kHz to over 100kHz, thus giving it better high frequency extension than even vinyls !!!

Perhaps we should use warm daylight tubes to ajinomoto the HF to sound warmer. Lomantik sound.

HID might be too forward lah unless got warm light lah.

special HID at 3500K colour temperature !

Cannot lah. Later it will 'over coloured' the HF. The cymbals might sound different. Satu macam.

sflam wrote:

elhefe wrote:

Sflam, rocketman,

In all honesty, do you really believe there is no difference between numerous brands of speaker cables, power cords etc? And in your current set up, you are using the power cord that came with your unit and for speaker wires, the red and black thin wires?

This is a sincere question as I have come across a few ppl whom is a keen believer that all these accesories do not make a different but will never reveal what they use. I was once a true believer as well but after I heard how a few cables and cords performed, I was converted.

i am now using a diy power cord with furutech plugs connected to my power amp. this diy power cord can take on branded power cords costing from RM1,500 to RM6,000.

i just bought a pair of used japanese balanced interconnects for RM280 (retail price is around RM500) and these can take on american balanced interconnects which used to retail at RM6,000. i am now using the cheap interconnects and am planning to sell the expensive ones.

as for speaker cables, i am still looking for el cheapos that are giant killers.

sometimes the power supply sections of components are so well designed that power cords do not make a difference and you can use the stock power cord or even a kettle cord. the wadia cd player is one good example. the mark levinson power amp is another good example.

when i tested the mit z strip power distributor, a kettle cord worked very well connecting it to the wall plug.

btw has anyone bought the siltech royal signature emperor crown speaker cables on sale in hifi4sale? going for only RM81,990 (nego).

Thanks sflam. So, its not to say that power cords, IC n cables dont make a difference, its more on why some are priced ridiculously expensive.

I wonder how SFLam writes review on Nordost, MIT, Cardas, etc power cords. The expensive power cords have to be compared to 'kettle' one rite..

I am waiting to see the next 'elite' power cord review from our Bass man.

Mooo... Mooo... Mooo...

Maybe we should set up a hifi factory in Gemas...

Extended and defined Moo's all around...

mugenfoo wrote:I shall try tonight with household light bulbs and report back if there are similar findings.

I I shall try with Philips, Osram, Sylvania variants to see (hear) which ones can give more effects on the highs especially.

MF...

Don't miss out the "IKEA" Light bulbs .

cheers

A quote from another thread:

"after all these debate... does it really bring anyone closer to enjoying their music ? If it does, good for you. If it didn't, well, next time can try and consider the time being spent to spin some vinyl or CD or stream some bits instead .... After all at the end of the day, what really matters is Only the Music."

htkaki wrote:No, it is not for the HDMI cable case as many argue sampai mati and popped a vien. The 1.3a ver is to support deep colour so it has nothing to do with the intermittent disruption of signal.

It could be a bad cable which I experienced before. The HDMI 1.3, 1.3a as well as the new 1.4 works fine for all BD players. Any signal loss like in your case is due to the quality of the construction of cable itself or it has been bended more than 70deg that could probably strained or broken the fine cables.

Since we are talking about HDMI cable, I had once tested a WHF 5 Star award HDMI cable. I was utterly disappointed that the Panasonic white HDMI cable actually sounded better with better clarity and more open. To add salt into wound, it is FREE punya.

Somehow, I am not sure why HDMi cable make a difference (a can of worm and hot LZ) since theoretically it is only passing 10101010 signal.

Btw, I am still using cheap HDMI cables from monoprice, FREE cables such as Giraffee, Panasonic, etc.

+1

I highly suspect it is due to the inferior quality of your HDMI cable. Another thing that cause signal lost is hand-shaking problem but this is everything to do with AV receiver.

It has been hotly debated and argued in LYN forum on differences between cheapo or chap ayam HDMI and branded HDMI. Many folks believe there should not be any difference since it is transmitting digital data (ie 1 and 0). However, an online expert concluded all well constructed HDMI cables should be indifference in performance only if shorter than 5m, he believes the longer the cables the higher chance of its signal quality being compromised. Again subject to argument.

Actually to be dead serious here, IF cable quality REALLY DO affect the accuracy of the bits being transferred, then ALL of you guys including me should really really worry. Don't ever do any financial transaction like withdraw cash from the ATM and only use cash. Have you guys ever seen the kind of cables used in a commercial I/T installation, used with equipment that costs tens of MILLIONS ? In US dollars ! And yet the cables are standard generic type, used to connect servers to each other, sometimes moving hundreds of millions of ringgits in a split second...... After my explanation of MSB and LSB, imagine 1 bit being flipped... As far as I know, no such error has ever occurred. Of course commercial and professional computers are designed with multiple safeguards, error checking, and layers of error recovery capabilities as well.

What threw me off with that cheapo HDMI cable was that when I power on the Samsung Blu Ray player, the Samsung background screen appears on the TV. So it is NOT a synchronization or locking problem. Nor is it a broken connection problem, because it is consistent. The picture dissapears after around 10 seconds. Power off the Samsung, power on again, the picture appears. 10 seconds later it dissapears. With the Sony DVD, nothing appears. Switch it back to the Samsung, again the same thing happens. Power on, the picture appears. Fine and sharp, bright nice colours. 10 seconds later it dissapears.

I will try it from Sony S380 Blu Ray to Marantz AV receiver later to see if the problem persists.

I now tend to agree with the suggestion from Adrian that the picture problem with my TiVX is also most probably to do with the HDMI cable. I use a different (better) cable with the TiVX. With the TiVX, occassionally after playing for 1 hour +, the picture on the Panasonic Plasma will start to flicker. Sometimes it flickers and then the picture dissapears. Reboot the TiVX and it works fine. Other times it works fine even through 2 or 3 movies.

Cables are a funny breed of snake oil it seems !

WongKN wrote:Hmmm... seems like everyone has really gone snake-oil mad !! My apologies to DrWho whom I believe sincerely suggested a tweak for people to try out but it looks like my post was most probably what started all these madness.

No apology needed. It is up to Admin and the Moderators to steer this forum to your desired destination.
LYN has a kopitiam section for light topics. AVS forum, IMO one of the best AV forum, is where serious stuffs are exchanged. I suppose you need to cater for all categories, serious forummers and others who also enjoy a bit of fun. This is your forum.

WongKN wrote:I now tend to agree with the suggestion from Adrian that the picture problem with my TiVX is also most probably to do with the HDMI cable. I use a different (better) cable with the TiVX. With the TiVX, occassionally after playing for 1 hour +, the picture on the Panasonic Plasma will start to flicker. Sometimes it flickers and then the picture dissapears. Reboot the TiVX and it works fine. Other times it works fine even through 2 or 3 movies.

Cables are a funny breed of snake oil it seems !

I thought you have relegated your TiVX to door stopper function. Not yet buy Dune? Aiya, cepat-cepat lor. Wonder Jinjang chap already bought it or not.

How many times must I explain ? I not as rich as the Jinjang guys. Also not as rich as you mah !

dr who wrote:
No apology needed. It is up to Admin and the Moderators to steer this forum to your desired destination.
LYN has a kopitiam section for light topics. AVS forum, IMO one of the best AV forum, is where serious stuffs are exchanged. I suppose you need to cater for all categories, serious forummers and others who also enjoy a bit of fun. This is your forum.

dr who, once a while we audiophiles must also relaks a bit lah. sometimes very frus after listening to million-ringgit system, go back and listen to own humble system and start swallowing snake oil and try to tweak to sound like million-ringgit system with minimal budget. so once a while, we crack some lousy jokes here lah.

but on a serious note...about placing tubes on top of speakers...i presume it's the resonances that 'affect' the sound.
what about the light bulbs in the room (living room or special listening room)? i hv energy-saving bulbs and normal incandescent light bulbs in my living room where the stereo system is. these will also resonate. what if someone has a crystal chandelier in the room? they will also resonate. will they change the sound?