Floorstander or bookshelf?

Floorstander or bookshlf/monitor ?

it depends on the size of your listening/living room.

if it's small, bookshelf speakers on good stands should be ok.
if it's big, floorstanders will perform well.
generally, floorstanders need lots of space.

SF....

Does it matter what spec of Amp drives the speakers as well ?

cheers

Generally floorstander got better bass.

I second that.
But when I was using a bookshelf, a sub did helped a lot..

Depends on what you are looking for. Some are into the "look" while others are into the "sound" or you could be up for the combo

For the average Malaysian home, normally the hi-fi set-up is in the the living room, a bookshelf spkrs should suffice.

if u like bass boom bang go to floorstander, vocal, jazz, classic get bookshelf

depends on your music taste and budget...

personally,in general i prefer floorstanders....but bookshelfs with proper sub is excellent as well..

wataru will have to redefine his setup, room size & music genre, off course..

for me i prefer bookshelfs, give me more space and give shock to friend too..

azri wrote:wataru will have to redefine his setup, room size & music genre, off course..

& also figure out the polarities to a great many things...

Essemble the system with both floorstander and bookshelf. Shift the usage based on the condition, desiration, feeling and excitement.
Drive a Mercedes for a long journey traveling and Evo 9 to arrived early. Correct me if i'm wrong.

wataru, myfi bro. whatever suits you. for all we know you could be living in a 40' X 100' bungalow. then you'd have to resort to the store room to enjoy bookshelves.

not to worry. wataru can figure out the polarities himself. its part of the learning process when it sounds hollow in between speakers.

giving "hollow" advice... from someone (not referring to any members here) who's head is "hollow" brings more confusion.

I wonder why we even bother ......
Its like asking milk or milkshake ah? Then just be quite. Real daft.

it's AC power polarities.

Thanks guys, i will try to listen for some Epos and Harbeth to decide hope can get it cheaper at KLAV fair.

by wingman

Does it matter what spec of Amp drives the speakers as well ?

yes, amp specs matter. i am now of the view that more power is always better. if u can afford it, buy an amp with more power.

by wataru


Thanks guys, i will try to listen for some Epos and Harbeth to decide

Generally speaking, epos have good midrange and highs but are bass light.

Harbeths sound warm and full. Very British kind of sound.

so it depends on the kind of sound you like.

by CT-Boy

But when I was using a bookshelf, a sub did helped a lot.

Bookshelf speakers with sub-woofer to augment the missing lower octaves are excellent when they match well.

Ask the home theatre guys and they will tell you that finding a sub-woofer to match their systems can be a huge problem.

wataru going for the ultra smooth sonic refinement. nice.
i just hope that Mr. Lee from HK is back this year. need to ask him some nooby questions about room acoustics.

last year, he actually had us sat down for more than an hour and shared with us his 30yr no frills room tuning experience at no cost. no obligation. just sit and listen. no cut-paste google technical facts needed. just plain otai experience.

his passion, along with his determination to help others, respect. Wataru, pm me if wanna tag along... : )

agree with sflam. also, for "power", its not only the watts that matter, current very important too. i recently came across a 14wpc 70s trio-kenwood amp that could drive a pair of 5ohm floorstanders effortlessly. swap it with a 90s marantz PM series 50watter and aiksss... how come it suddenly sounds so thinny and reserved?

watts can be deceiving sometimes. for potential buyers better search for specs on current before buying. as an example, my very old yammie av amp is pushing +- 45amps.

drife wrote:

watts can be deceiving sometimes. for potential buyers better search for specs on current before buying. as an example, my very old yammie av amp is pushing +- 45amps.

Curious question... Did u measure the 45 Amps and into what speaker load ? Or was it a spec from the manual/brochure?

SF.....

Cheers.....

Another question, I am on bookshelf's ( wharefadale 9.2's ) nicely matched with my NAD 3020.

As CT and your goodself were mentioning that a sub-woofer would be good to enhance the lower sonics.

What would be a possible good match for a sub-woofer, similar make or otherwise and worst my dated AMP does not have a sub output slot. Any possibilities of adding a third party gear ?

Cheers

bro wing, the dated 3020 is not dated at all in its sq. good amp bro. i think the 3020 can handle another 8ohm passive sub. or just get a matching active sub with spkr inputs. NAD otais pls correct me if i'm wrong.

How to connect sub to stereo amp if there's no sub out? Also is there any good recommended sealed sub for music under RM2k?

normally subs have high in, inputs from amp speakons terminal, use that, though you may have to fork out some money to buy another pair of speakon cables.. cheers

ooops... typo. on purpose. around 20-25amps as quoted by some other old forumer's posts. 45amps is probably krell territory. i didn't mean to give any krell owners a shock. just having fun "measuring" some shock factor here.

curious question, for WTS items, should we quote brochure specs or practically measure to get real figures so that no buyer files a lawsuit against us?

just out of curiosity. bro azri, would good spkr cables make a big difference? does it justify the costs?

since its only for LF. pasar road cables can do?

the 6sub guru would know. where r u uncle?

Hi Drife....

I don't deny the 3020 does its job well....... .

As i was "WEBBING" for answers on how to connect a "SW" to my AMP and there were suggestions to link them to a Tape Out or Line in / out of an AMP via an RCA "Y" connector to a single cable connected to a "SW".

Would the above be possible or recommended

cheers

drife wrote:ooops... typo. on purpose. around 20-25amps as quoted by some other old forumer's posts. 45amps is probably krell territory. i didn't mean to give any krell owners a shock. just having fun "measuring" some shock factor here.

curious question, for WTS items, should we quote brochure specs or practically measure to get real figures so that no buyer files a lawsuit against us?

Doubt if it can even do 20 amps.... , unless the Yamaha AV amp can deliver 3200Watts into an 8 Ohm load.

Maybe 5 Amps is more realistic to get 200 Watts, and only with the assumption of negligible output impedances (which is definitely not the case for most Jap Amps).

haven't done that before. that's y i asked uncle to casually join the SW discussion. no fan club registration necessary. anyway i hope this helps:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-5545.html

bro, did it ever crossed your mind that a pair of tube blocks would sing along well with the 3020? .... racun racun racun : )

the wharfs sound signature is also me cuppa tea. have loved 'em since the deltas and modus... for that price point they just sound right to my limited-experience ear : )

wingman wrote:Hi Drife....

I don't deny the 3020 does its job well....... .

As i was "WEBBING" for answers on how to connect a "SW" to my AMP and there were suggestions to link them to a Tape Out or Line in / out of an AMP via an RCA "Y" connector to a single cable connected to a "SW".

Would the above be possible or recommended

cheers

the Tape-out is not useful because u can't control the volume then.

the Pre-out would be a better option and would be the ideal link if u get an active sub that can accept stereo inputs. But not with a Y-cable as this might short out the pre-amp section's channel outputs.

There are also Sub woofers that can tap the signal from the speaker outputs, or even have its own crossovers (that comes with the sub) that will isolate the LF from the bookshelves and let the sub do the LF job.


Addendum: When using the pre-out of an integrated amp, make sure that the pre-out can be used in conjunction with its own power amp section (i.e. the power amp stages do not entirely depend on the pre-out's connection to get the signal). If I remember correctly, the NAD 3020's pre-out actually directly feeds into its own power amp stage .. so if u pull out the jumper pins, the power amp section goes mute.

Unlike an Audiolab 8000A for example, in which it's pre-out which can be used also in conjunction with it's own power amp (coz they're already internally linked in the circuit board).

Otherwise, u can use 2 sets of Y-cables, not for combining the L/R channels but for Y-joining the Sub's input AND the power amp input (in the case of the NAD 3020). Do the same for both L & R channels. But another caveat here, not sure if the Pre-amp's output stage is out to mark to drive both the Sub's input and also it's own Power amp section's input concurrently. If the load is too much for mr. pre-amp section ...mr. pre-amp might smoke.

good one bro mugen. i really needed to know that coz i'm not from an E&E background and just too lazy to surf for answers.

i would appreciate if you could share with us the calculations/formulas.

hahhh... for once. this discussion is getting positive and healthy. nice.

is there a safe way to tap the pre-outs since it has to be connected to main-in? i didn't know that the nasty y-connector might short-circuit things. scary.

so, best bet is to get a sub with spkr inputs. has anyone A/B cheap and good spkr cables for LF. do better "speaker cables" give you more punch and deeper bass? overall more weight?

did i mention good speaker cables? wuupppsss.. gotcha! even if its jln pasar, you still have to fork out some money right? unless if theres bunch of gays selling cables over there, then you may consider giving them chance to tap your butt for a foot long cheapo speakon cables.. right?

anyway, i dont have any uncle in my hi fi ventures mate, never had & never will. if you see some sort of intimacy among us in this community, thats because we 'pretty' much knew to whom we are talking to & we respect each other on their opinions even though some may sounded a bit sarcastic .

cheers

cool. the au5900 and au6600 has pre-main linked internally as well. and its got an external switch to disable/enable internal pre-main links.

even w/out the pins, they work as integrateds as well : )

huh? ko salah paham bro. i just needed to know if the good spkr cables would make a difference. coz most cable manufacturers claim that their RCAs would improve LF. conjob or not i was just curious...

uncle_vic might have A/B compared before. that's y i asked him to come in.

if it doesn't make a difference then the normal cables would do lah. and i'd be happy to FOC some unused cables for bro Wingman if he needed any.

but if one day Wingman decides to upgrade to better cables and it made a noticeable diffrence in LF, don't shoot me!

Mugen / Drife.....

Thanks for your inputs....but the addendums and caveats are a bit worrying.....

Taking the "TubeY" path did cross my mind but nahhh...it can wait for a while.

Went for the "wharfs" bookshelf speakers as my listening area is within the living area, sort of sub area.....the sonics from the speakers are warm, at times wanting the little extra of the bass.

Would be worth checking out one of the audio shops around for a audition.

cheers

cool. hope that you find the magic combo. anyway if the bookshelves are on stands, ever considered the smallest diamond floorstanders? they'd proabably take up the same space.

good bookshelves on good stands cost a bomb these days. with that kinda money i would consider mini floorstanders in tight spaces...

to minimise boom we could lift the spkrs up a bit. just a humble suggestion... cheers

Currently i'm using ProAc Tablette Reference 8 Signature coupled with REL Strata 5 subwoofer and listening Norah Jones ...sound very cun especially at low level..like listening to un plug concert right in the room..

years ago, tony/hifi choice demo-ed some RELs on jurassic park 1. i could feel the rex breathing into the room. i've never had a better HT experience since then. no wonder those RELs where at a different price level. respect. can't afford one yet : )

Not to burst anyone's bubble here ... but at the end of the day, no combo of brand-A bookshelves matched with Brand-B sub would really be as good as a proper pair of well built full-range floorstanders (whether its 2 way, or 3 way, or planar + woofer sub, etc) that is completely built and tuned in-house by the speaker mfg. (within the context of 2 channel hifi systems that is, not referring to AV here). Speaker mfgs go to great lengths to ensure that their fullrange speakers' components and design are all well matched from the drawing board to the assembly rollout. No combo of Brand/A+Brand/B would have this sort of embodiment (ok, maybe except for that Scottish mfg that made specialty subs for the Quad ESL63 ... what were they called? Radius or something? And mebbe that specialty sub for LS3/5A .. but these are the extreme minority here.)

A good rule of thumb is to get speakers that will sing well in the given room space ( & wallet $pace also).

No point putting a pair of small bookies with a massive sub in a small listening room where the bass would drown out everything else, or even putting the same combo of speakers in a large hall, where the bookies themselves cannot deliver the envelopment of the mids and highs for the large listening area, which leaves the bass being the sole star performer only, again.

Proper speakers (backed with proper amplification & frontend) for the proper listening area is best.

A proper set of right-sized speakers from the start should be much preferred over Brand-A/B sub/satellite combos most of the time. Yes there are exceptions, but these are really rare, like perhaps for example a Sonus Faber Extrema (which itself is no slouch in the bass dept already) , paired with a really good sub (but alas, not 6 subs) to boot.

Mugen....

Well said....a well paired speakers and the "SW" is a marriage made in musical heaven.. .

With my "listening" space dimensions it was practical to have a pair of bookshelve and it would not be practical to get massive "SW" which may go well with a room with wider dimensions.

Am looking for a mid level box design "SW" which could pair well with my "wharfs".

I did own a Kenwood ( audio ) setup with a mid-level box "SW" and it played its role by not over powering the speakers. When needed it did come to the fore ground to enchance the bass and still giving out the little "thunders" as the music plays along.

I lugged the 3020 to most shops to match with the right bookshelves and it may be a similar situation.

Mugen...

Never the less, it was a good insight on what one has to expect to get the matching speaker combo.

Drife.....

Audition the Wharf Diamond 9.1, 9.2 , 10.1 and the 10.2.s, somehow my "ear drums" were jiving to the 9.2's. Yes, they are sitting on speaker stands with 2 inch rigid foam and wood as a cushion.

With the various variables taken into consideration, am totally satisfied with the bookshelves and the sonics it delivers.

Now its a matter of tweaking to the desired level of expectation with $$$ consideration.

cheers

wingman wrote:
I lugged the 3020 to most shops to match with the right bookshelves and it may be a similar situation.

Soon I'll also lug my tube amp around looking for a matched speakers. Lucky it's not that heavy. Someone previously asked me why I do not want a 30kg amp lol.

First stop will be Loth X Ion 3 and Ion 4

nicely built triple cone fostex plus boxes that weighs a ton. hope they match ur amp.

i sense some thick and ultra-smooth vocals coming. yeah, bring Stacey Kent into the living room. yum : )

Arremie.....

Happy lugging your newly modded AMP around to find the perfect matching speakers.

During my escapades tried various speakers and at times you might "drool" when you hear the sonics. ( i did ) But the $$$ did not make sense to me, so opted for the next best thing thats available..

Enjoy the moments.

cheers

Yeah I'm looking for speakers especially for vocal and light jazz. Loth X fit my budget and the db is high enuf to use efficiently with my 12 watters. Stacey Kent, Norah Jones and all the gangs sure will follow lol.

For everything else, my Klipsch will serve the purpose

loth x? fuh gud luck

Really depends on the listener.

Depending on the type of music one prefers, bookshelf speakers can be as enjoyable as floorstanders. But your system must be reasonably good, meaning, good source, amp, cables, etc.

Obviously floorstanders will give you better bass but if your system is good or well matched as some would prefer it, bookshelf speakers can produce enough bass to keep you "busy".

I have tried the ProAc 2.5 and Monitor Audio 702 .... both produce good music. Each may sound a little different than the other but the thing that really matters most is that you enjoy the music.

azri wrote:loth x? fuh gud luck

err...is that good or bad "good luck"?