MythBusting Tweak

Hi Guys,
Apparently I have stumbled upon an old tweak, which is controversial to say the least. I would appreciate hifi gangs like us to share experience of tweak that's technical unexplained, yet it works.

Last week, I invited my tune deaf and non-aduiophile friend over to verify 1 of this tweak. Still remember those CD marking pen? That's used to mark the complete outer edge of the CD? Claimed to be able to reduce reflection of laser light back to the diode...totally nonsense.

We have a CD to run 2 tracks for 3 times to familiarize ourselves with the music and tunes. Then I got the CD out and mark the outer edge.(Normal permanent marker, black, not those expensive hi fi "voodoo" pen). But to his and mine disbelief, there is a rather notificable change in the music reproduction. Everything is just snap into focus. In a general term, music is just lesser warmth and have greater accuracy to it. Haha, it is not mine psychological side that got the better of me, fact is, I never tell him what to expect after the marking, because I never really tried it as well.
My friend who is total no interest in hi fi does hear the differences.

Well, at this stage of my hi fi setup, this isnt so much of an improvement to me, as the warmth of music being extract out from my CD is just too much..

What is important is; at least with my system.. there is a very audible difference. Hard to believe, but it is true. I do believe some of you may not agree, as I do believe CD technology has progressed since the day when this tweak has been discovered, and chances of other better player or transport out there will have probably made improvement to eliminate this variable. But still, it works in my Marantz CD63KI...

Myth never get busted. To me, this is real. Period.

Regards,
Adrian

Hi Adrian, thanks for reporting on this. Quick questions...
1) What color and make of pen did you use?

2) The music was ''lesser warmth'' after the pen was used? Was this better or more cold and clinical sound?

Just wondering as my sistem is a little 'cold' sounding some times, and i was thinking of trying this mod on a few cd's that i seem to have 2 of, and try for myself, see if the results are similar to yours.

Thanks again for sharing!

Bal.

Hi Bal,

1) I used Black color permanent marker.

2) The "lesser" warmth happened after the marking is done on the CD edge. It is not towards the cold and clinical stage, it just sound more real. My tune deaf friend told me the singer is standing more at the center instead of everywhere around the soundstage. I didnt sit at the sweetspot; My findings was, the over sound has lesser warmth and have better focus.

Do report your findings once you are done with it~

Regards,
Adrian

i use auric illuminator and i have painted my cd with black permanent marker. the difference is there but not as obvious as u notice

Hi Guys,
I dont really know this is true or not, as I am not such a crazy ppl nowadays in doing A & B comparison.

Lately, I did found out that; it seems to be correct if I do not tighten my speaker cable too much; the music from the speaker is more agreeable.
Musical notes and human voice seem to have longer decay.. Mine is bare wire connection at the speaker's post.

Is it some psycho-acoustic I have been experiencing here or it is truly something mechanically taken place? As I've read of other hi fi cable company making claims of similar approach on their termination of cable..

Adrian,

You have stumbled into the deep, dark hole of no return, that is hifi tweaking !!

Back when I was playing CDs, there were some tweaks which were very popular and there were even some 'theories' raised to back them up. I have tried some and they seem to work most of the time. I tried it more when I was using a Phillips CD850 as the CD Player. Later when I went a bit more 'serious', separate transport and DAC, the effects seems to be lesser. What it seems to do is that these tweaks sort of emulate some of the implementations (best word I can think of) in the higher end CD players, transports, and DACs that more affordable CD Players don't have (due to cost). So the tweaks do not work so much in the higher end machines. Some of the things that come to my mind are :

1. The CD edge marker pen as you discovered. The basis for this to work, -as claimed- by hifi magazines, is that they 'seal' the edge of the CD and because it is not reflective, the laser light reflection inside the CD does not interfere with the tracking of the CD 'track'. Thus the transport can track better. There seems to be some basis in this but I never bothered to really find out. It worked on the Phillips but not so much on the Marantz high-end transport and less so on the California Audio Labs transport.

2. Also popular at one time are 'rings' made up of materials derived from sorbothane, which we stick to the outer edge of CDs. This is claimed to make the CD more stable in spinning speed and thus reduce jitter as well as the demands on the CD transport motor. It worked in all of my CD equipment.

3. Then Kenwood I think or was it JVC invented the 'CD Platter', a rather ingenious idea taken from the vinyl turntable. Basically they have a solid platter and the CD is placed label-side down, i.e. reading side up. They reversed the CD transport so that the laser head is upside down, reading the CD from the top. When the CD transport clamps the CD down, it also solidly presses the CD against the 'platter', much like what we do with record clamps. This gives the benefit as 2) above plus because the platter surface is made of non-reflective black rubberised material, any 'leak-through' of the laser light out of the label side of the CD is also removed. The benefit was so obvious a number of higher-end transports were based on it.

4. Eventually companies made 'CD Clamps', a solid heavy metal clamp with a disc the size of a CD. So we put this clamp ontop of the CD in normal (face down) position. Most high-end CD transports uses this nowadays in a top loading mode with a cover.

5. With regards to the contact points, a popular 'snake oil' sold many years ago was 'contakt'. It is a sort of cleaner + conditioner. First it is supposed to help clean the connections (binding post, RCA jacks, etc). Then you also apply it and you hook up the cables. Claimed to improve the sound. It didn't do anything to my system. Hifi mags which initially promoted it later claims it changes the sound negatively (forgot what was the main things that were changed). Eventually it was agreed not to have 'conditioners' like contakt but rather to clean the contacts regularly with some contact cleaner liquid.

6. One important tuning step that was quite universally agreed at that time, not sure if it is still being talked about now, is that like turntables, CD players and transports need to be properly levelled. This can be very difficult to do especially if we have cones at the bottom. We can't always adjust the stand because the other equipment might run out of level alignment. One of the best CD transports many years ago, the Goldmund CD transport was designed along this line.

As usual, YMMV. No harm experimenting but only on non-critical CDs and for equipment, make sure it is reversible.

Mr. Wong,

No.3, That inverted CD turntable. Did Kenwood have something like that? I believe it was Pioneer who invented it and they called it the Pioneer Stable Platter and it worked just like you've described. My Cary CD300 is using it.

Later Teac made the VRDS drive which also clamped CDs onto a stable surface but you did not need to place the CD upside down.

Hi WongKN,
Thanks for sharing... I did read some of this CD transport things before.

But the cable clamping or tightening things are rather new to me... and I did make another attempt to A & B Comparison yesterday.. I still manage to hear the different of tightly focus & better decay..

I am not sure those who use banana or spade will experience the same phenomenon or not. haha.. or my mind has been hearing voices...

Another 1 of the tweak that's truly making a different is the Telo Cap... Platinum version... Can even hear the difference on 1 cap to the digital in.

I am not a hifi audiophile as such although love to be one.

When I was in college, a few of us experimented freezing the CD, thawed it and apparently the treatment will improve the sound. My friends did a blind test as such, with two identical CD but one to be a control, they did find some difference.

I didn't detect any though.

Just to provide this input as a record as one of the mystical CD treatment process.

peter32 wrote:

When I was in college, a few of us experimented freezing the CD, thawed it and apparently the treatment will improve the sound. My friends did a blind test as such, with two identical CD but one to be a control, they did find some difference.

I wouldn't recommend freezing your CDs as sub zero temperature causes the plastic material to become brittle.

Do we need to sand plast as shown at the video link below :-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bodniyBVABQ

adrian4454 wrote:Hi WongKN,
Thanks for sharing... I did read some of this CD transport things before.

But the cable clamping or tightening things are rather new to me... and I did make another attempt to A & B Comparison yesterday.. I still manage to hear the different of tightly focus & better decay..

I am not sure those who use banana or spade will experience the same phenomenon or not. haha.. or my mind has been hearing voices...

Another 1 of the tweak that's truly making a different is the Telo Cap... Platinum version... Can even hear the difference on 1 cap to the digital in.

Personally I have not read it anywhere but some of my friends believes in tightening 'properly'. But this, it is meant that the connections must be tight but not over-tightened. It seems to be an art and I will admit I myself do not fully understand how much to tighten. As for whether there is a difference, once my friend re-tightened the speaker cables for me & I thought I can hear a difference but again, I am not sure I can guarantee I will be able to hear it consistently every time.

How much tightening will depend on your wire gauge. You'll need a torque screwdriver for the job. Not cheap. For 12 Gauge I go for around 50 to 60 cN.m of torque. But it mostly depends on your own listening tests and your personal preference.

wongkn wrote:

3. Then Kenwood I think or was it JVC invented the 'CD Platter', a rather ingenious idea taken from the vinyl turntable. Basically they have a solid platter and the CD is placed label-side down, i.e. reading side up.

it was pioneer.

Pioneer PDS Stable Platter series with Legato Link. Even Wadia used this transport in one of their units. Can't remember which.

OK, it must be Pioneer since the two of you remembers it. Goes to show how long ago it was. Also how old the two of you are !

The other guy is much much older. Like a decade and a half older.

Talking about advanced CD play back equipment of the 90s... I still remember in my high school days, where I saw 1 unit of this Forsell Air Reference Transport at 1 of the hifi shop in Seremban..

I dont remember reading any reviews or specs of this stuff, but it was mind boggling to come to understand that something inside this transport was ran by pneumatic. Or am I being cheated by my own hazy memory?

Anyway, anyone of you who has come across this transport, can to share some stories? Thanks.

bimmerman wrote:Pioneer PDS Stable Platter series with Legato Link. Even Wadia used this transport in one of their units. Can't remember which.

Wadia 830.

Theta Pearl.

Theta Jade.

Ah, yes, your post reminded me of a tweak that anyone can try and is totally reversible (some tweaks like the CD rings or contakt treatment are not 100% reversible) but extreme caution is advised. This is where some people swear that by stacking two CDs together (of course the one being played is below), the sound is improved. Many people swear by this but some reported their CD tray got jammed after a few times.

I remember this was the impetus for those CD rings but their problem is once sticked on, it is extremely difficult to remove and even if can, will damage the label of the CD.

For the top loaders with a CD clamp, there were some flirtation with clamps made from wood, usually ebony. Shun Mook actually came out with one I remember.

I think also recently, there was some CD 'demagnetization' device. It seemed far fetched to me because light cannot be affected by the magnetic fields we encounter in normal everyday life and somemore the CD is polycarbonate and is not magnetic. But again, some people swears by its effect.

Be aware that there is a section of audiophiles who says that those who believe in tweaks are 'cuckoo' or delusional. So before discussing about the latest tweak with a new acquaintance you met at the hifi shop, perhaps best to gently 'probe' the person to see if he belongs to that faction. But I do believe if what they say is true, then the bulk of the forumers here, including me, are delusional !

Ya, we are bunch of ppl that do believe Ghost does exist also

Talking about light being affected by EMI, I even manage to read certain Toslink cable is being shielded for EMI and RFI... I am extremely confused of this saying too. It is like someone is really trying to sell Snake oil here.

But then again, how much do we really know?

Like I used to read a lot of car magazine and I thought my knowledge of car engine was deep.. until I joined a car manufacturing company. Only then I knew the secret behind some of the design... quite a lot of stuffs were not being explained in any book you can find, it was in fact the company trade secret, you need to see the design and object, and see how it function; then only you got an idea why it was being designed that way.

It is never being explained in any books. All the dark voodoo that we explode... would have been implemented 1 way or another by each hi fi company that would like to keep that as their "dark secret".

How true, how true.

I myself only get a chance to -chat- with some R&D engineers from car manufacturers and even that is enough to give me a hint of the kind of things they deal with that us car enthusiasts, even those of us who supposedly 'tune' or 'build' our own cars, just totally don't have any idea of ! Actually some of those things are not even trade secrets, just that they look at it from a very different and a lot more detailed angle.

I think it is the same whenever we compare a consumer, even a so-called 'knowledgeable' one, to someone who is a professional in the same area, i.e. someone who earns a living in that area. The consumer will just not have any idea of the complexity and level of details that the professional deals with. It's the same with all areas.

Myth-busting Tweaks, and sometimes the buster do gets busted, it is always a 2-way traffic.

Personally, I value the spin-off from it and the gained experiences after trying the "myth" or our most insensible tweak that we suspect might just works for our audio system. New discoveries usually has such beginning, which we have all benefited.

It does not matter what tweaks, if it works or not, but I always welcome attempts and this trying nature of humankind.

Jo Ki

This reminds me of my tweak on my LD player. That was about 18 years ago. When a LD spins, the whole player itself is vibrating. So, I tested it out after someone told me about this tweak.

I went to get a thick 1sq foot marble slab and a small piece of cloth to put on the player itself. Do I get any improvement? Probably less vibration but without perceivable difference.

sivaguru wrote:The Holfi stabaliser has a sticky surface and thus far has not caused the tray to jam. I believe it absorbs stray and bounced off light and eliminates static like the CD ringmats. I am interested to get some feedback and opinions on the use of what looks like PCB circuit board as the material for the stabaliser. Has anyone tried half cut squash balls under their CD players!

Hi Siva....

Trying the "squash ball" with my CDP but its not half cut yet.

The previous setup, the CDP was sitting on a 1 inch thick rectangle wood. Similar in dimension to the CDP. The wood sits on 1/4 inch thick "O" ring washers about 4 inch in diameter. On the CDP I place "rubber" based mouse mats to dampen the vibration.

The sound quality was much more heavy / thick compared to just placing on the rack board without the add on's.

But can still feel a bit of vibration when place my hands on the CDP body. Did another vibration test using CPU cooling fan on the rack board. ( my bench mark test ) Wow ...the vibration gets carried into the CDP.

Now the CDP is on Squash balls, held in place by "O" ring washers. Don't feel the vibration on the CDP body. Even the "CPU Fan" test failed to get the vibration on to the CDP body.

The music being played is much more weighted and detailed. The finer details are much more prevailing.

Now its a matter of tweaking around the base with wood, marble or granite. But the CDP legs would be still the squash balls. But looking at DIY-ing the legs in different commercially available materials.

The squash balls works something like the air ride suspension busses. ( my un technical perception )This works on my system but may differ with your individual system.

As for the ringmat... evaluating some commercially available materials... will share...when i get it right to my ears.

No harm in exploring as long as it does not burn a hole in your pocket, part of your learning curve, thrill and personal satisfication. Thats my view.

cheers

Some equipment maker has used special made Stand off that absorb vibration on the PCB with great success...

I use Car radiator Mounting Bush below my CDP... more definition. But never really got carry away with other extreme ideas.

Currently there are some CD disc that make out of black coating... the reading surface is black as well. Dont really know what improvement it got..

The problem with rubbery feet like sorbothane, rubber grommets and squash-ball feet is that while they tend to damp low vibrations quite well, they tend to also kill the detailling and midrange/treble regions.

Some people like the effect because it gives a fatty bass like sound quality.
But other people perceive it as bloated and fuzzy bass, while obscuring the clarity and details of the music. Taking the "life" out of the music, some might say.

There is a famous master-tweaker who frequently lurks in this forums, who does quite the opposite and use materials such as stone slabs and glass panels instead for vibration control of his equipment.

sivaguru wrote:WOW! LD players. There was a professional tweaking company in the UK that tweaked LD players and sold them specifically for CD as their philosophy was that the LD player is over engineered for CD and thus would be an excellent transport for CD ie. more stable. LD is way heavier and bulkier than CD. Any one remembers...

Theta Data Universal Transport. Circa early 1990s, or maybe late 1980s.

sivaguru wrote:Hi! Wingman,
Happy to read about your tweaks. I am now convinced that a whole ball is better than half! Ha Ha Ha.
Another thing that got placed under equipments when I was much younger was ceramic chinese tea cups...If it does not work can always turn it up and drink tea with our Hifi kaki friends.
Best Wishes and Happy New Year.
Regards,
Siva

Siva....

Its matter of exploring to your music taste buds with items that are average in pricing. As i mentioned earlier try getting a heavy base like marble slab or stone slab and place your CDP..and hear the difference. then you work your way up...with the squash ball or anything that you intent to explore.

Try wood base supports....try wooden base door handles....as your support... You will get creative when you see the types of wooden base door handles

As Mugen says....music may sound different with different materials but one would match your music preference.

The above are all my adventures with my tweaking escapades...


cheers

I've had pretty good results with magnetic levitation devices. Yup, I believe Mr. Bassraptor is liking it very much also.

Since I am the type that doesnt like to get disappointing result from hi-fi branded tweak stuff that I fork out money to purchase;

I once tried using chopping board made out of finger jointed woods to see what effect the sound got from it when out underneath my CDP..those that u can find at shopping mall. In fact I never brought it for that purpose. It just happen I got 1 in my house for vege chopping~.

What a woody hollow sound it make.. sound natural at first, but give up too much details for that... so another tweak bite the dust. But then again, the real stuff may fair better.

Adrian...

Try something thicker and solid wood. As chopping board wood are not that hardy. You should try the Fishmonger's or the meat sellers chopping block and now you can call that real hardy wood.

I stuck two chopping boards together to get the thickness. ( the Ikea boards ). Have relegated them to be my speaker base.

cheers

[quote]
Yes, try different wood densities.

I use sand bags on top of my components and speakers.

It's easy to make. Just go around your neighborhood and perhaps you'll find a house being renovated (now is a good time of the year!). There you will find sand which you can use for the sand bags.

Use Ziplock bags (6in x 6in will do) and fill them up with dry sand. Add another bag over it to ensure the sand don't leak out.
Make a nice bag for it if you want some eye-pleasing asthetics.
Experiment with different size sand bags.

Cheap tweak and easy to make. It just may work on your components. Use them anyway you want - under or over.

bimmerman wrote:I've had pretty good results with magnetic levitation devices. Yup, I believe Mr. Bassraptor is liking it very much also.

Hi Bimmerman...

Which dealer in MY would be distributing this product or its made locally or need to get this from over the sea

thank you.

cheers

Call Ean on 0195710383. But he only picks up in the afternoon as he goes tweaking here and there till the wee hours of the morning. He's a nocturnal audiophile you see.

Hi Bimmerman...

Thanks for sharing the #. Will give him a call. Nocturnal ....hmmmm

Happy New Year.

cheers

Bimmerman...

Wouldn't the magnetic field from the levitation device have any negative effect on the CDP player ? ( long run ) Theres is also different weight category of these device and am sure the magnet specification would increase proportionally as well.

cheers

Hey Wingie,

Yes, I was initially concerned about the magnetism since companies like Furutech go the extra mile to de-magnetize their products and now i'm actually dabbling into magnetizm and may damn well introduce a deleterious element into my system.

But the short answer is no. I have been using this for over a year now and no, no side effects. On the other hand, since I currently don't have a proper hifi rack, the sonic improvements are humongous!!! People like Bassraptor with proper hifi racks may experience less of an improvement but comparing notes with him, he seems equally impressed with these on his system.

Yes, these devices come in different weight categories and the ones built for heavier components will naturally cost more. You can go for a minimum of three depending on the weight of your equipment. You need to tell Ean the weight of your hifi component and he will tell you which ones you need.

Now, if you cannot get past the fear of magnetizm and it's potential ill effects on your equiptment, there's a similar product from Clearaudio called "Magix" which is magnetically shielded. But be prepared to pay almost RM1K per piece. You'll need 3 so do the math and see if you still want to go there.

Hi Bimmerman...

It's good to know another person had a similar fear. Thanks for the clearing the doubt.

Happy New Year.

cheers

Hi All,
Just to inform some new discovery that ppl like us that believe in Science too much wont want to admit it is possible.

[img][/img]

Take a close look at the above picture, I believe you guys must have come across this on some hardware/DIY section of the supermarket. It is basically a cork felt with a double sided tape on.

I've seen similar tweak used by JimmyAuw at his webpage that represent very close to this. Only yesterday I put this on my ALPs volume pot. 4pcs to be exact.
And yes, it is a very audible different of before and after treatment. Music become very focus and very accurate. Mean time, it kill the naturalness as well. So I end up not using any. But the effect it can generate is quite a surprise.
I believe it got to do with Micro vibration or the subjective "Micro Discharge Interface" theory. Anyway, it is the only logical explanation I can comprehend.

I've previously used this on my speaker as well, to unsatisfactory result. And again you did be surprise, the effect is very audible as well, even using 1 piece. I believe this is also due to the nature of my speaker and how it is setup. There is no dampening on my speaker stand, other than the sand inside. So the speaker cabinet does "sing" along with the driver on some ways, arent they all do? Except those ultra crazy expensive machined from a block of metal type, I believe. I ended up 1 pc of round cork felt on top of the cabinet, and it gives peace to the sometimes wondering higher frequency that doesnt seem to quit.

I suggest you give this tweak a try, who knows it helps save you hundreds of ringgit changing cables and still unsatisfied. Words of caution: this is not UL94 approved material, you should know exactly what you are doing when you mess around with the internal of an equipment.