Tube Amp 2a3 or 300b

Any interesting 2A3 kits int he market?

dixchen,

Yes, that sensitivity is good enough. I try to use the 1626 amp (12ax7 (input)-1626(driver)-1626) which is ~0.9w also can drive it well, the LF seems drive better than my 300B.

brabusm,
Since 2A3 is easy to build and better sound with direct connection, you can just biuld it without kit set, it mayl be cheaper too. alternative is to get the kit set of sun audio from well audio singapore or just go look for 2nd hand sun audio 2A3.

Well brabusm,

If you're adventurous like myself, you can get min from tubeaudiolab.com to build you a 2A3 kit based on the WE91A circuit by Joe Roberts where the driver is a 6c6 ( pentode driver) in a 2 stage configuration. This way you can select the components that you want to use in there to ' tune ' the flavour you want in it. You won't believe what kind of drive and dynamics a proper pentode based driver can contribute to the sonics of the amp. A different school of thought from the usual triode based driver.

ss333,
try the 5751 driver as a direct substitute for the 12ax7, guarantee you it will sound much more musical. gain is lower but hardly significant...

Brabusm - PM me if you are keen for a 2A3 DIY project. I have not done a DIY based 2A3 tube amp and would be embarking on a Loftin-White 2A3 design in March/April 2011 - probably a 12AT7/2A3.

I have completed one channel of my DIY WE91A circuit by Joe Roberts, and I am using it to drive my recently acquired Altec 288-8L compression driver. The tubes are Tungsol 5u4G rectifier, JJ 300b, Philips JAN 6SJ7, with Mundorf silver/Gold Oil, Sophia 93 OPT, Audionote tantalum resistors, Obbligato Film oil for PSU caps, Prometheus custom power transformer and inductors.

It is going through the burn-in process now. I would probably get the other channel build after CNY, time permitting. And hopefully can sit back and enjoy.

Brabusm - pls note that I am strictly a hobbyist only.

Dixen, what's the high frequency like on your 45? Typically rolls off at about 16khz?

Best wishes.

sss333 wrote:MTHOI,

What's the spec of power trans you order from promitheus and what the price?

tlkoo,
Lundahl is quite famous but i never have the chance to test it.

I migh be wrong, but i think asia OPT is more emphasis on the mid n HF refinement, western opt more on LF. that's why western OPT tend have have much higher inductant for OPT.

how you like lundahl output transformers after auditioning my setup? not enough emphasis on mids and highs compared to japanese output transformers? or emphasised across the frequency spectrum thus balanced sound?

Any idea on tube amp that able to drive a low 83db speaker

khlim_77 wrote:Any idea on tube amp that able to drive a low 83db speaker

A good SET 211 or 845 with triode drivers for extra power perhaps? Do you have a budget in mind as this is an open ended question.

brabusm wrote:

khlim_77 wrote:Any idea on tube amp that able to drive a low 83db speaker

A good SET 211 or 845 with triode drivers for extra power perhaps? Do you have a budget in mind as this is an open ended question.

my budget is rm3k for the power amp, maybe will target on Audio space and Melody in the used market , on the 300B and KT88 do you think it can drive well on the 83db speaker

khlim_77 wrote:Any idea on tube amp that able to drive a low 83db speaker

If this is a Ls3/5A in particular, then this sensitivity will not pose a problem to even an 10 to 15W SET amp, its impedance curves hover around the 16 ohm level and that poses an easy load for tube amps to drive it. impedance curves are more important than just sensitivity which is hardly useful these days. My previous Harbeth C7 rated at only 86db/w could easily be driven by an 8W 300B set amplifier.

THere is simply no direct correlation between just sensitivity and ease of drive. Hope that helps you a bit.

dixchen wrote:

khlim_77 wrote:Any idea on tube amp that able to drive a low 83db speaker

If this is a Ls3/5A in particular, then this sensitivity will not pose a problem to even an 10 to 15W SET amp, its impedance curves hover around the 16 ohm level and that poses an easy load for tube amps to drive it. impedance curves are more important than just sensitivity which is hardly useful these days. My previous Harbeth C7 rated at only 86db/w could easily be driven by an 8W 300B set amplifier.

THere is simply no direct correlation between just sensitivity and ease of drive. Hope that helps you a bit.

But a 83db speaker, can it be driven by 8w 300b set amp? It's hard to believe. Can drive and can be driven to the max is a different story dixen.

Just like the Harbeth lo, depends on room size, output level of source, of course comparitively to a 95db/W upwards full range drivers cannot compare la.. but the Ls3/5A for its own good in the sense if you drive it with 10 to 15W or lets put it at 15W, it will still be alright. Anyway small speaker ma, cannot expect the kind of sound like from your Tannoy's la...

I have used a 300B with a pair of 300B as well as a pair of Maggie ribbons. The Ribbons does go loud but somehow the 300B is adequate at moderate volumes with the LS3/5a.

It would be best to get a more sensitive pair of speakers should you decide to go for a 300B otherwise you wont be making the best out of it. >95db/w if possible. Paper cone is the best.

I dont have any experience with the Audio Space. Give it a listen and if possible, bring along your speakers.

Good luck with the purchase.

khlim_77 wrote:

brabusm wrote:

khlim_77 wrote:Any idea on tube amp that able to drive a low 83db speaker

A good SET 211 or 845 with triode drivers for extra power perhaps? Do you have a budget in mind as this is an open ended question.

my budget is rm3k for the power amp, maybe will target on Audio space and Melody in the used market , on the 300B and KT88 do you think it can drive well on the 83db speaker

Forgot to mention, always do homework on the transformers used by the amplifier as it's crucial in determining the manner the amplifier sounds as well as providing current to drive difficult loads.

brabusm wrote:I have used a 300B with a pair of 300B as well as a pair of Maggie ribbons. The Ribbons does go loud but somehow the 300B is adequate at moderate volumes with the LS3/5a.

It would be best to get a more sensitive pair of speakers should you decide to go for a 300B otherwise you wont be making the best out of it. >95db/w if possible. Paper cone is the best.

I dont have any experience with the Audio Space. Give it a listen and if possible, bring along your speakers.

Good luck with the purchase.

khlim_77 wrote:

brabusm wrote:

khlim_77 wrote:Any idea on tube amp that able to drive a low 83db speaker

A good SET 211 or 845 with triode drivers for extra power perhaps? Do you have a budget in mind as this is an open ended question.

my budget is rm3k for the power amp, maybe will target on Audio space and Melody in the used market , on the 300B and KT88 do you think it can drive well on the 83db speaker

brabusm wrote:Dixen, what's the high frequency like on your 45? Typically rolls off at about 16khz?

Best wishes.

Sorry totally missed this one out, the scope of extension of a typical tube amp depends also on its OPT but on the 45 I think it stretches way beyond the 16khz you mentioned. Like I said, depends on the quality of the OPT used as well as the primary impedance used.

Still having said that a 45 is a popular tube due to its musicality and ' magical ' sound... surpasses a 300B or 2A3 anytime of the day, gotta have the right speakers to hear it sing though..

Dixon

Speakers are ok as they are rated at 104db/w. I doubt it's the Tamuras as well.

My guess could well be the difference in built between the 300B and the 45 as the 45 is a kit albiet a quality kit whilst the 300B is a high-end product. It lacks the sparkle of the 300B as well as the lush mids but I may not be comparing apples with apples as it's a pair of NOS Sylvania 45s with a pair of WE 300B. Both drivers are 6SN7 with the 45 using a matched pair of NOS Sylvania 6SN7GT and the 300B a pair of limited run Gre-Pin CV181 (renown for its lush mids and details). However, I must admit that the original setup for the 300B is no where near where it is sounding like now. However the lush portion could be due to the CV181 and I suspect the highs could really be due to the 45's grid impedance and bias. Generally higher = more mellow.

The other possibility could be that it needs some serious running in. Am into 50 hours and will see how it opens up further over the next 20 hours. The mids are pronounced, highs better of I turn up the gain on the amp and lower the preamp. It's a very quiet amp, too quiet at times as I suspect that the transformers are filtering out too much. Time to get the soldering iron and multimeter out again.

Which 45 are you using? I read that the Yamamotos are very good but have yet to hear one locally.

Best wishes.

dixchen wrote:

brabusm wrote:Dixen, what's the high frequency like on your 45? Typically rolls off at about 16khz?

Best wishes.

Sorry totally missed this one out, the scope of extension of a typical tube amp depends also on its OPT but on the 45 I think it stretches way beyond the 16khz you mentioned. Like I said, depends on the quality of the OPT used as well as the primary impedance used.

Still having said that a 45 is a popular tube due to its musicality and ' magical ' sound... surpasses a 300B or 2A3 anytime of the day, gotta have the right speakers to hear it sing though..

Dixon

Wow, this is the first time I have heard on a view that the 300B could be better sounding than a 45 but you have mentioned as well, there are SO many factors that determine the sound an amp in A particular tube amp but putting all power supply factors, components, driver tube types aside, I find the 45 tube on its own a more delicate sounding tube in comparison to all 300B's I ever heard, ( I do own a pair of 1940's WE 300B as well ) . Many would call it lush of the 300B sound but I call it thick sounding, and that is a mid emphasis, ( too much if you asked me again ) Like I ever mentioned, the only 300B tube I can ever accept and am now listening and settled on is the Shuguang Treasure 300B-Z, only because it does not sound like a typical 300B ( was told more like a 2A3), but hey of course, then again it all matters to personal taste as well.

I mostly listen to Globe 45's, compared to any ST 45's, they are a lot airier, delicate and warmer sounding compared to its ST brothers. IN particular listening to a pair of Acturus blue glass 145's, driver is a type 26 DHT with a 6sn7 input tube using the Fi Primer circuit. Thus as you see, the circuit is totally different again.

But I have heard a friend's 45 amp based upon JEL's Simple 45 circuit using the 6sl7 as driver, similarly of the 45 tube, it reflects the same of what I mentioned on the above of the 45 tube. In fact it was due to that, I went looking for a 45 amp and found the above.

Sorry for my long winded reply bro.

Dixon

Have not heard the Yamamoto's , ( have not been into commercial gears for a long time now LOL!! ) but have heard raved reviews regarding them.

brabusm wrote:Speakers are ok as they are rated at 104db/w. I doubt it's the Tamuras as well.

My guess could well be the difference in built between the 300B and the 45 as the 45 is a kit albiet a quality kit whilst the 300B is a high-end product. It lacks the sparkle of the 300B as well as the lush mids but I may not be comparing apples with apples as it's a pair of NOS Sylvania 45s with a pair of WE 300B. Both drivers are 6SN7 with the 45 using a matched pair of NOS Sylvania 6SN7GT and the 300B a pair of limited run Gre-Pin CV181 (renown for its lush mids and details). However, I must admit that the original setup for the 300B is no where near where it is sounding like now. However the lush portion could be due to the CV181 and I suspect the highs could really be due to the 45's grid impedance and bias. Generally higher = more mellow.

The other possibility could be that it needs some serious running in. Am into 50 hours and will see how it opens up further over the next 20 hours. The mids are pronounced, highs better of I turn up the gain on the amp and lower the preamp. It's a very quiet amp, too quiet at times as I suspect that the transformers are filtering out too much. Time to get the soldering iron and multimeter out again.

Which 45 are you using? I read that the Yamamotos are very good but have yet to hear one locally.

Best wishes.

dixchen wrote:

brabusm wrote:Dixen, what's the high frequency like on your 45? Typically rolls off at about 16khz?

Best wishes.

Sorry totally missed this one out, the scope of extension of a typical tube amp depends also on its OPT but on the 45 I think it stretches way beyond the 16khz you mentioned. Like I said, depends on the quality of the OPT used as well as the primary impedance used.

Still having said that a 45 is a popular tube due to its musicality and ' magical ' sound... surpasses a 300B or 2A3 anytime of the day, gotta have the right speakers to hear it sing though..

Dixon

Thanks for your reply Dixson.

From your reply about the Shuguang Treasure and 300B character I can roughly place your musical preference. I am actually at the other extreme where I crave for lush sounding tones with weight whilst not being muted at any frequency range. Highs should have its sparkle, mids its lushness and bass with proper weight and reverb. I would lump the ST300B in a similar pool as the KR Audio 300B and it not to my preference. Sound is a very personal choice. No right or wrong.

I just had a listen to the 45s again over lunch. The highs are coming in nicely. I realised where the earlier "mistake" was. The gain on the amplifier was set too low and the preamp had to do bulk of the work. I have adjusted the amp gain and the highs are coming in nicely now. The mids are very sweet and airy when I spun the Tong Li LP but I still find the presentation lacking the musical weight that I am used to. I stil think the transformers are filtering out too much. Hopefully it is a running in syndrome. Am trying to put a finger on the bass notes after playing some pipe organ pieces where the sub notes flows out.

Hopefully another 50 hours of running in will give it more character.

Best wishes

dixchen wrote:Wow, this is the first time I have heard on a view that the 300B could be better sounding than a 45 but you have mentioned as well, there are SO many factors that determine the sound an amp in A particular tube amp but putting all power supply factors, components, driver tube types aside, I find the 45 tube on its own a more delicate sounding tube in comparison to all 300B's I ever heard, ( I do own a pair of 1940's WE 300B as well ) . Many would call it lush of the 300B sound but I call it thick sounding, and that is a mid emphasis, ( too much if you asked me again ) Like I ever mentioned, the only 300B tube I can ever accept and am now listening and settled on is the Shuguang Treasure 300B-Z, only because it does not sound like a typical 300B ( was told more like a 2A3), but hey of course, then again it all matters to personal taste as well.

I mostly listen to Globe 45's, compared to any ST 45's, they are a lot airier, delicate and warmer sounding compared to its ST brothers. IN particular listening to a pair of Acturus blue glass 145's, driver is a type 26 DHT with a 6sn7 input tube using the Fi Primer circuit. Thus as you see, the circuit is totally different again.

But I have heard a friend's 45 amp based upon JEL's Simple 45 circuit using the 6sl7 as driver, similarly of the 45 tube, it reflects the same of what I mentioned on the above of the 45 tube. In fact it was due to that, I went looking for a 45 amp and found the above.

Sorry for my long winded reply bro.

Dixon

Have not heard the Yamamoto's , ( have not been into commercial gears for a long time now LOL!! ) but have heard raved reviews regarding them.

brabusm wrote:Speakers are ok as they are rated at 104db/w. I doubt it's the Tamuras as well.

My guess could well be the difference in built between the 300B and the 45 as the 45 is a kit albiet a quality kit whilst the 300B is a high-end product. It lacks the sparkle of the 300B as well as the lush mids but I may not be comparing apples with apples as it's a pair of NOS Sylvania 45s with a pair of WE 300B. Both drivers are 6SN7 with the 45 using a matched pair of NOS Sylvania 6SN7GT and the 300B a pair of limited run Gre-Pin CV181 (renown for its lush mids and details). However, I must admit that the original setup for the 300B is no where near where it is sounding like now. However the lush portion could be due to the CV181 and I suspect the highs could really be due to the 45's grid impedance and bias. Generally higher = more mellow.

The other possibility could be that it needs some serious running in. Am into 50 hours and will see how it opens up further over the next 20 hours. The mids are pronounced, highs better of I turn up the gain on the amp and lower the preamp. It's a very quiet amp, too quiet at times as I suspect that the transformers are filtering out too much. Time to get the soldering iron and multimeter out again.

Which 45 are you using? I read that the Yamamotos are very good but have yet to hear one locally.

Best wishes.

dixchen wrote:

brabusm wrote:Dixen, what's the high frequency like on your 45? Typically rolls off at about 16khz?

Best wishes.

Sorry totally missed this one out, the scope of extension of a typical tube amp depends also on its OPT but on the 45 I think it stretches way beyond the 16khz you mentioned. Like I said, depends on the quality of the OPT used as well as the primary impedance used.

Still having said that a 45 is a popular tube due to its musicality and ' magical ' sound... surpasses a 300B or 2A3 anytime of the day, gotta have the right speakers to hear it sing though..

Dixon

Hi

Actually the SG is not even similar compared to the KR 300B, the KR maintains its mid ' thickness ' but is highly energetic and dynamic making it slight' ' solid state ; like which I simply could not accept, I sold the KR after listening to it for a while, couldn't take it, compared to the WE 300B which is far more easier listening.

As for the 45, you are right though that this tube does not have as much ' weight ' compared to many other tubes and more so the 300B, its very ' light ' and tonally delicate , so its kinda different la.

Let it break in more and it will sing even more but at the end of the day its more of a personal taste, each tube has its own character thus yes no right or wrong, more of listening to the tube of the day la.

Dixon

brabusm wrote:Thanks for your reply Dixson.

From your reply about the Shuguang Treasure and 300B character I can roughly place your musical preference. I am actually at the other extreme where I crave for lush sounding tones with weight whilst not being muted at any frequency range. Highs should have its sparkle, mids its lushness and bass with proper weight and reverb. I would lump the ST300B in a similar pool as the KR Audio 300B and it not to my preference. Sound is a very personal choice. No right or wrong.

I just had a listen to the 45s again over lunch. The highs are coming in nicely. I realised where the earlier "mistake" was. The gain on the amplifier was set too low and the preamp had to do bulk of the work. I have adjusted the amp gain and the highs are coming in nicely now. The mids are very sweet and airy when I spun the Tong Li LP but I still find the presentation lacking the musical weight that I am used to. I stil think the transformers are filtering out too much. Hopefully it is a running in syndrome. Am trying to put a finger on the bass notes after playing some pipe organ pieces where the sub notes flows out.

Hopefully another 50 hours of running in will give it more character.

Best wishes

dixchen wrote:Wow, this is the first time I have heard on a view that the 300B could be better sounding than a 45 but you have mentioned as well, there are SO many factors that determine the sound an amp in A particular tube amp but putting all power supply factors, components, driver tube types aside, I find the 45 tube on its own a more delicate sounding tube in comparison to all 300B's I ever heard, ( I do own a pair of 1940's WE 300B as well ) . Many would call it lush of the 300B sound but I call it thick sounding, and that is a mid emphasis, ( too much if you asked me again ) Like I ever mentioned, the only 300B tube I can ever accept and am now listening and settled on is the Shuguang Treasure 300B-Z, only because it does not sound like a typical 300B ( was told more like a 2A3), but hey of course, then again it all matters to personal taste as well.

I mostly listen to Globe 45's, compared to any ST 45's, they are a lot airier, delicate and warmer sounding compared to its ST brothers. IN particular listening to a pair of Acturus blue glass 145's, driver is a type 26 DHT with a 6sn7 input tube using the Fi Primer circuit. Thus as you see, the circuit is totally different again.

But I have heard a friend's 45 amp based upon JEL's Simple 45 circuit using the 6sl7 as driver, similarly of the 45 tube, it reflects the same of what I mentioned on the above of the 45 tube. In fact it was due to that, I went looking for a 45 amp and found the above.

Sorry for my long winded reply bro.

Dixon

Have not heard the Yamamoto's , ( have not been into commercial gears for a long time now LOL!! ) but have heard raved reviews regarding them.

brabusm wrote:Speakers are ok as they are rated at 104db/w. I doubt it's the Tamuras as well.

My guess could well be the difference in built between the 300B and the 45 as the 45 is a kit albiet a quality kit whilst the 300B is a high-end product. It lacks the sparkle of the 300B as well as the lush mids but I may not be comparing apples with apples as it's a pair of NOS Sylvania 45s with a pair of WE 300B. Both drivers are 6SN7 with the 45 using a matched pair of NOS Sylvania 6SN7GT and the 300B a pair of limited run Gre-Pin CV181 (renown for its lush mids and details). However, I must admit that the original setup for the 300B is no where near where it is sounding like now. However the lush portion could be due to the CV181 and I suspect the highs could really be due to the 45's grid impedance and bias. Generally higher = more mellow.

The other possibility could be that it needs some serious running in. Am into 50 hours and will see how it opens up further over the next 20 hours. The mids are pronounced, highs better of I turn up the gain on the amp and lower the preamp. It's a very quiet amp, too quiet at times as I suspect that the transformers are filtering out too much. Time to get the soldering iron and multimeter out again.

Which 45 are you using? I read that the Yamamotos are very good but have yet to hear one locally.

Best wishes.

dixchen wrote:

brabusm wrote:Dixen, what's the high frequency like on your 45? Typically rolls off at about 16khz?

Best wishes.

Sorry totally missed this one out, the scope of extension of a typical tube amp depends also on its OPT but on the 45 I think it stretches way beyond the 16khz you mentioned. Like I said, depends on the quality of the OPT used as well as the primary impedance used.

Still having said that a 45 is a popular tube due to its musicality and ' magical ' sound... surpasses a 300B or 2A3 anytime of the day, gotta have the right speakers to hear it sing though..

Dixon

Hi Dixchen,

I am now trying out the 45 on another pair of speakers (90db original Blueroom minipods) and they sound wonderful. I am testing to see if smaller drivers cope better with the limited watts as less energy is required to control the woofer. Will know once I have listened to a few tracks. I was previously driving a 12" full range. The limitation of the smaller driver is that I don't get the sub notes anymore Other than that, my initial impression is that tonally the effort level seems to be similar with both speakers hence I suspect that the only difference may be the bass reproduction and control which I will test with some demanding tracks later in the day.

What is the largest sized drivers you have tried running your 45?

You are right about the lighter and delicate tones. I think that I am a sucker for lush thick tones with proper weight. Would like to tap your experience on the 45 and 2A3.

Is the 2A3 a weightier tube compared to the 45? I wonder if it is possible to tweak the 45 to produce weightier tones. Have you tried damping the chassis etc? Mine is internally wired p2p with copper as silver internals would result in a sound that is too bright and fast hence negating the character of the 45 tubes. I may rewire the kit amp and change some components next month to accomodate a 2A3 if the 45s doesnt work out.

I have only listened to the ST300B once on a Cary Audio CAD300 sei at my friends place and did that b2b with the KR. The highs are more pronounced on the ST and the mids as you have described. Then I listened back to the WE300B and that was it. I still like the old school. I lumped the ST + KR into the same pool as it's not I was looking for. Are you looking to sell your WE300B? I may be keen to keep a spare pair.



Best wishes.

dixchen wrote:Hi

Actually the SG is not even similar compared to the KR 300B, the KR maintains its mid ' thickness ' but is highly energetic and dynamic making it slight' ' solid state ; like which I simply could not accept, I sold the KR after listening to it for a while, couldn't take it, compared to the WE 300B which is far more easier listening.

As for the 45, you are right though that this tube does not have as much ' weight ' compared to many other tubes and more so the 300B, its very ' light ' and tonally delicate , so its kinda different la.

Let it break in more and it will sing even more but at the end of the day its more of a personal taste, each tube has its own character thus yes no right or wrong, more of listening to the tube of the day la.

Dixon

brabusm wrote:Thanks for your reply Dixson.

From your reply about the Shuguang Treasure and 300B character I can roughly place your musical preference. I am actually at the other extreme where I crave for lush sounding tones with weight whilst not being muted at any frequency range. Highs should have its sparkle, mids its lushness and bass with proper weight and reverb. I would lump the ST300B in a similar pool as the KR Audio 300B and it not to my preference. Sound is a very personal choice. No right or wrong.

I just had a listen to the 45s again over lunch. The highs are coming in nicely. I realised where the earlier "mistake" was. The gain on the amplifier was set too low and the preamp had to do bulk of the work. I have adjusted the amp gain and the highs are coming in nicely now. The mids are very sweet and airy when I spun the Tong Li LP but I still find the presentation lacking the musical weight that I am used to. I stil think the transformers are filtering out too much. Hopefully it is a running in syndrome. Am trying to put a finger on the bass notes after playing some pipe organ pieces where the sub notes flows out.

Hopefully another 50 hours of running in will give it more character.

Best wishes

dixchen wrote:Wow, this is the first time I have heard on a view that the 300B could be better sounding than a 45 but you have mentioned as well, there are SO many factors that determine the sound an amp in A particular tube amp but putting all power supply factors, components, driver tube types aside, I find the 45 tube on its own a more delicate sounding tube in comparison to all 300B's I ever heard, ( I do own a pair of 1940's WE 300B as well ) . Many would call it lush of the 300B sound but I call it thick sounding, and that is a mid emphasis, ( too much if you asked me again ) Like I ever mentioned, the only 300B tube I can ever accept and am now listening and settled on is the Shuguang Treasure 300B-Z, only because it does not sound like a typical 300B ( was told more like a 2A3), but hey of course, then again it all matters to personal taste as well.

I mostly listen to Globe 45's, compared to any ST 45's, they are a lot airier, delicate and warmer sounding compared to its ST brothers. IN particular listening to a pair of Acturus blue glass 145's, driver is a type 26 DHT with a 6sn7 input tube using the Fi Primer circuit. Thus as you see, the circuit is totally different again.

But I have heard a friend's 45 amp based upon JEL's Simple 45 circuit using the 6sl7 as driver, similarly of the 45 tube, it reflects the same of what I mentioned on the above of the 45 tube. In fact it was due to that, I went looking for a 45 amp and found the above.

Sorry for my long winded reply bro.

Dixon

Have not heard the Yamamoto's , ( have not been into commercial gears for a long time now LOL!! ) but have heard raved reviews regarding them.

brabusm wrote:Speakers are ok as they are rated at 104db/w. I doubt it's the Tamuras as well.

My guess could well be the difference in built between the 300B and the 45 as the 45 is a kit albiet a quality kit whilst the 300B is a high-end product. It lacks the sparkle of the 300B as well as the lush mids but I may not be comparing apples with apples as it's a pair of NOS Sylvania 45s with a pair of WE 300B. Both drivers are 6SN7 with the 45 using a matched pair of NOS Sylvania 6SN7GT and the 300B a pair of limited run Gre-Pin CV181 (renown for its lush mids and details). However, I must admit that the original setup for the 300B is no where near where it is sounding like now. However the lush portion could be due to the CV181 and I suspect the highs could really be due to the 45's grid impedance and bias. Generally higher = more mellow.

The other possibility could be that it needs some serious running in. Am into 50 hours and will see how it opens up further over the next 20 hours. The mids are pronounced, highs better of I turn up the gain on the amp and lower the preamp. It's a very quiet amp, too quiet at times as I suspect that the transformers are filtering out too much. Time to get the soldering iron and multimeter out again.

Which 45 are you using? I read that the Yamamotos are very good but have yet to hear one locally.

Best wishes.

dixchen wrote:

brabusm wrote:Dixen, what's the high frequency like on your 45? Typically rolls off at about 16khz?

Best wishes.

Sorry totally missed this one out, the scope of extension of a typical tube amp depends also on its OPT but on the 45 I think it stretches way beyond the 16khz you mentioned. Like I said, depends on the quality of the OPT used as well as the primary impedance used.

Still having said that a 45 is a popular tube due to its musicality and ' magical ' sound... surpasses a 300B or 2A3 anytime of the day, gotta have the right speakers to hear it sing though..

Dixon

Hi

I have over the past year and a half settled on a pair of 12 inch full range speakers, which are the Audio Nirvana Cast 12's in a 2.8 MkII enclosure that I imported from the states.

Previously coming in from a neutral and tonally ' correct ' speaker such as the Harbeths and these are no less, and conveys more information due to its much higher sensitivity. Like I mentioned before, if it plays my 1.5W 45 amp with loudness that deafens, then anything else above would just be a walk in the park.

There is a way to get around the less than adequate bass in our SET amps, ( will PM you regarding this topic ) but most importantly is the main speakers themselves. A speaker that is honest tonally correct remains in my system irregardless which of my amps that I decided to switch to on the very same day. Have yet to fault anything on these speakers.

Like yourself I was once a sucker myself for lush thick tones, in fact my first SET amp was a DIY 2 stage 300B amp using the 5751 as a driver tube. From then I rapidly progressed to many diff ones such as the 26, 37, 76, 10Y, RS 241, 45, 845, 211.

Once heard the 2A3 but never liked it as much as the 45, bass repro is awesome though.. very solid low end from this tube. Tonally, perhaps a touch too lean for my taste. I still prefer the ' magic ' in the 45 sonics.

One pointer for you, if you take note of the sound produced from the 300B, its ' thicker ' and a tad to lush, fuzzy in some terms, a vocalist's true voice could be slightly veiled and over ' emphasized ' thus not true to the original. That's one point I don't like about it but then again many in the audio world today love this tube thus one again no right or wrong sound here just a personal preference.

Even taking the magical 45 as a comparison, its perhaps more true and delicate sounding than a 300B but then again if you really compared it to other tubes such as the 10Y or the superb sounding Telefunken RS 241, then it would be classified as slightly ' colored ' over the rest in its own way once again.

I haven't heard a 45 that has weight in it and I don't know if you can even put weight to its sonics since that is its character, any attempt to do so by altering components to it could lead to heavy colorations of another sort , then again over my years of experimenting I find the driver stage in any tube amps dominates the sonics of the amp itself over the output tube. Thus once could only hear the real sound of the actual tube if you follow Sakuma' s circuit topology, using itself as a driver. A friend of mine in fact just got a 6sn7->45->300B, waiting to fire up to hear what that sounds like.

I seldom wire my amps using silver only because as what you mentioned that silver does make everything sounds bright except for Duelund silk impregnated flat silver wires, one silver which I don't find the sound of silver in it, its very open sounding yet natural ( costs a bomb though! )

I heard that Cary unit you mentioned before and no offence to him or anyone here that owns one, I din like it at all, maybe its just that 300B sound that I have grown out of after listening to many other tubes which I consider, more ' true ' sounding.

Will send you a PM on those WE's.

Thx Dixon. Looking forward to the PM. On the 12", mine goes very loud as well but I am craving for more musical weight.

Best wishes.

dixchen wrote:Hi

I have over the past year and a half settled on a pair of 12 inch full range speakers, which are the Audio Nirvana Cast 12's in a 2.8 MkII enclosure that I imported from the states.

Previously coming in from a neutral and tonally ' correct ' speaker such as the Harbeths and these are no less, and conveys more information due to its much higher sensitivity. Like I mentioned before, if it plays my 1.5W 45 amp with loudness that deafens, then anything else above would just be a walk in the park.

There is a way to get around the less than adequate bass in our SET amps, ( will PM you regarding this topic ) but most importantly is the main speakers themselves. A speaker that is honest tonally correct remains in my system irregardless which of my amps that I decided to switch to on the very same day. Have yet to fault anything on these speakers.

Like yourself I was once a sucker myself for lush thick tones, in fact my first SET amp was a DIY 2 stage 300B amp using the 5751 as a driver tube. From then I rapidly progressed to many diff ones such as the 26, 37, 76, 10Y, RS 241, 45, 845, 211.

Once heard the 2A3 but never liked it as much as the 45, bass repro is awesome though.. very solid low end from this tube. Tonally, perhaps a touch too lean for my taste. I still prefer the ' magic ' in the 45 sonics.

One pointer for you, if you take note of the sound produced from the 300B, its ' thicker ' and a tad to lush, fuzzy in some terms, a vocalist's true voice could be slightly veiled and over ' emphasized ' thus not true to the original. That's one point I don't like about it but then again many in the audio world today love this tube thus one again no right or wrong sound here just a personal preference.

Even taking the magical 45 as a comparison, its perhaps more true and delicate sounding than a 300B but then again if you really compared it to other tubes such as the 10Y or the superb sounding Telefunken RS 241, then it would be classified as slightly ' colored ' over the rest in its own way once again.

I haven't heard a 45 that has weight in it and I don't know if you can even put weight to its sonics since that is its character, any attempt to do so by altering components to it could lead to heavy colorations of another sort , then again over my years of experimenting I find the driver stage in any tube amps dominates the sonics of the amp itself over the output tube. Thus once could only hear the real sound of the actual tube if you follow Sakuma' s circuit topology, using itself as a driver. A friend of mine in fact just got a 6sn7->45->300B, waiting to fire up to hear what that sounds like.

I seldom wire my amps using silver only because as what you mentioned that silver does make everything sounds bright except for Duelund silk impregnated flat silver wires, one silver which I don't find the sound of silver in it, its very open sounding yet natural ( costs a bomb though! )

I heard that Cary unit you mentioned before and no offence to him or anyone here that owns one, I din like it at all, maybe its just that 300B sound that I have grown out of after listening to many other tubes which I consider, more ' true ' sounding.

Will send you a PM on those WE's.

Hi dixon, where can I get a good pair of 45 tube? I would like to try it in my 2a3 preamp . I'm told that my preamp can plug in a 45 in replace the 2a3.

Brabusm,
It's very true that the driver stage domain the sound. I'm having 6n1 > 2a3 > tango interstage > 300b. It have the dynamic of a 2a3 n the energy of 300b. The beauty is in the interstage n the super fast n quiet smps power supply.

Noodle,

Not plug and play. Plate voltages different. You need to make some changes. I bought my tubes from Singapore. Octave may carry some here in PJ. What brand are you looking for?

Looks like you are having fun with your drivers.

Best wishes.

noodle88 wrote:Hi dixon, where can I get a good pair of 45 tube? I would like to try it in my 2a3 preamp . I'm told that my preamp can plug in a 45 in replace the 2a3.

Brabusm,
It's very true that the driver stage domain the sound. I'm having 6n1 > 2a3 > tango interstage > 300b. It have the dynamic of a 2a3 n the energy of 300b. The beauty is in the interstage n the super fast n quiet smps power supply.

Hi

Are you interested in a pair of EML 45, I still have a pair near new in box which I no longer use, have a look at the link below. EML is the equivalent , but in my opinion better than KR, also made in czech republic by Alexander Vaic, the former partner of Dr Kron from KR. You may already know this since they are the only other competitor to KR that makes a mesh plate 300B as well.

WHen you look at the tubes, you will tell yourself WOW! superbly built like all KR's


http://www.emissionlabs.com/datasheets/EML45.htm

Yes you can swap in a pair of these into your pre, only difference is the bias values which I am sure you can easily change on the cathode section.

noodle88 wrote:Hi dixon, where can I get a good pair of 45 tube? I would like to try it in my 2a3 preamp . I'm told that my preamp can plug in a 45 in replace the 2a3.

Brabusm,
It's very true that the driver stage domain the sound. I'm having 6n1 > 2a3 > tango interstage > 300b. It have the dynamic of a 2a3 n the energy of 300b. The beauty is in the interstage n the super fast n quiet smps power supply.

noodle88 wrote:Hi dixon, where can I get a good pair of 45 tube? I would like to try it in my 2a3 preamp . I'm told that my preamp can plug in a 45 in replace the 2a3.

Brabusm,
It's very true that the driver stage domain the sound. I'm having 6n1 > 2a3 > tango interstage > 300b. It have the dynamic of a 2a3 n the energy of 300b. The beauty is in the interstage n the super fast n quiet smps power supply.

Hey Noodle

My next amp will feature Tango NC20F interstage as well, Telefunken RS 241 -> interstage -> Eimac 75TL with individual HEATER and POWER supply section too..

Brabusm,
due to my 2a3 preamp is bias quiet low as not to over drive my Tamura line output trans, in my case the 2a3 is told to be direct replace by 45 tube.

Dixon,
pls pm me the price of ur EML 45. Tango NC 20F is a good interstage which I'm using it in my 300b amp. Do be careful with it, not to over drive it. Ones u magnetise the core, it will degrade it's sound.
Ur coming amp, is it a diy amp or after Market amp? I think I'm getting into the DHT SET amp fever deeper n deeper now.

Hi noodle

Yes of course, with any trans even opt, you don't want to do that to prevent core saturation.

None of my amps are commercial, all custom one off builds, I don't think anyone in the world today can use the Telefunken RS 241 or Eimac 75TL to build a commercial amp out of it, its even harder to even locate these tubes today.

The world of SET has no limits because the possiblities are endless, ya know if possible explore more into different other tubes other than the 300B or the 2A3, for example the 45 is one tube which is sonically superior over these and with your Tannoys no problems with the low power of those tubes.

Will PM you the price of those EML's.

2a3b is good for very high sensitivity- such as full range speaker or horn type.

300B emm easily to feed to most speakers...to me i prefer transistor,no much hassle and cheap to maintain.

tubes don't die as easily as we all think so whats there to really maintain la...the cost is in rolling different sounding tubes to have diff sound.

One of the advantages of tube amp set (to me) is able to tube rolling as compare to SS. It really fun to do that but have to spent a little. I'm also one of the sucker who crazy about lush and thick mid.
One question to ask you guys, I'm thinking of getting Shuguang 300b treasure series, any reliable source to buy. I saw a lot in ebay. Shd i get premium one or not. Any commemt. I using set amp using a pair of 6sn7 as input and driver , solid state rectifier and 300B power.

Anyone have a Shuguang Treasure CV181 that can let me try-out first before I consider getting a pair? I can swap with my Sylvania JAN VT221 to try-out.

mthoi wrote:Anyone have a Shuguang Treasure CV181 that can let me try-out first before I consider getting a pair? I can swap with my Sylvania JAN VT221 to try-out.

Apparently it is quite good. Selling like hotcakes in Singapore. Similar sound to the Gre-Pin CV181s.