Clone Hifi & Stuff And How Do They Affect Originals

We have clone speakers just like the Proac 1SCs that just popped up here a few minutes ago, clone Proac Response 2.5s and clone amplifiers. Most of these speakers are presumably built by DIY enthusiasts. The Ho's LS3/5a's can probably be considered as the clone of the original LS3/5as borrowing much design hues from the original with the "LS3/5a" tag. Next we have the Finite Elemente clones. I'm not sure where the replicas were made, China or locally here in Malaysia but the original German-engineered rack specialist had their products made in Germany.

Recently I just found out that there are clones for the Nokia N8 which are made in China. These were sold at around RM300 to RM350 whereas an original unit would cost about RM1,400-1,500. The clones look quite identical to the original and I'm not too sure how consumers would be able to differentiate between the two in the event the fake ones penetrate the market and sold as originals by unscrupulous peddlers(don't think that will happen without disclosure, otherwise the sellers will vanish into thin air after selling a few units).

I don't know what other gear are being duplicated in the market. I was wondering about copyrights issues and whether the practice of clones having the exact design and label of the originals can be legally sold in the open market. I do know that there are many clones of branded clothes, shoes, leather bags and Rolex watches being sold openly in the market though.

We have not made any firm decisions on the sale of 'clone' items here in this forum, not as far as I know of. The same applies for 'those types' of DVDs and Blu-Rays. At the moment, we need to depend on the integrity and honesty of the seller to ensure that he/she is upfront about it. I once committed to buy a set of Cornertunes but after the sale, the seller contacted me and requested to cancel the sale because he just saw the cornertunes his friend had and those that he was selling does not look original. So given the doubt, he decided not to go through with the sale. That was a gesture I appreciate. In my case, I did not touch the clone ProAc post because the seller was upfront about it being clone. I will let Mr. Admin decide if anything is to be done about such items.

Nokia "clones" are not 100% identical in every respect. Those "clone" iPad are not the same performance too. You get what you pay for..period!

Sorry WongKN, my comments are general and not particularly referring to the sale of clone speakers and FE Spider racks here on this forum. As far as I know all sellers have openly stated in their ads that the products they sell are clones. I presume it wouldn't be too difficult to differentiate between the clone Proacs and the originals. The purpose of this post is more towards the ethics of selling a product copied "exactly" by a third party and being sold in the open market, such as the Nokia N8. I don't know whether it's legally right to do this and whether the manufacturer reserves the right to take legal action against those responsible, if necessary. Also, I noticed some clone iPads have started to show up on some places with the exact casing and packaging as the original Apple iPads, priced at 1/4th the original stuff.

the Ho's cannot really be considered as clones, as it is NOT meant to be an imitiation with the intent to deceive or cheat the consumer. the Ho's LS3/5a could be taken as a tribute , or as "inspired by" the original design instead.

As for other more blatant clones like the ProAc lookalikes, or the cheap Taiwan/China-made hifi racks copying the original German Finite-Elemente designs, then these are the nasty ones with the intention of fraud, and hence should be treated differently with extreme prejudice.


But as they say: "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery". - C.C. Colton.

Cmboy, good to know. I am actually more interested in the business perspective of the sales of these clones rather than performance viewpoint of it.

Ah, so it is just general discussion. By all means go ahead. It is a very fair and interesting topic that everyone can put in their opinions on.

I think it is up to the individual to decide if he/she wants to buy a clone or the original. As long as he/she do the due diligence and most importantly make sure he/she is not conned into thinking that a fake is real and pay original prices for a fake one.

In the real world, clones plays an important role. Not everyone can afford an iPhone or iPad and those cheap china clones. Yes they may do a fraction of the work or functions and may not last as long. But I personally feel we must not wantonly put down the cheap china clones and their buyers and gloat if we can afford the original, we must not become too arrogant. NOT EVERYONE IS AS FORTUNATE AS US.

mugenfoo wrote:the Ho's cannot really be considered as clones, as it is NOT meant to be an imitiation with the intent to deceive or cheat the consumer. the Ho's LS3/5a could be taken as a tribute , or as "inspired" by the original design instead.

Maybe I should have left the Ho's out in my original post that may have caused some confusion. I do not have any intention to put them in a position to deceive or cheat the consumers. Just like the Stirlings. They were mentioned because they do take most of the design from the originals. They have their own brand name anyway.

But sometimes there is also some fun involved in buying fake stuff, just for the novelty of it . No harm as long as the buyer is fully aware of it, and pays the "fake-goods value". You get what you pay for & willing-buyer-willing-seller.

The real malice here only is if the buyer unknowingly buys a fake item, but paid "original price" for it.

mugenfoo wrote:But sometimes there is also some fun involved in buying fake stuff, just for the novelty of it . No harm as long as the buyer is fully aware of it, and pays the "fake-goods value". You get what you pay for & willing-buyer-willing-seller.

The real malice here only is if the buyer unknowingly buys a fake item, but paid "original price" for it.

I think you made a good point. That are the lines I am thinking about when I come up with this post. As cmboy pointed, some of the clones and originals do not look and feel the same. The vast difference in price will also be a factor that lets buyers know what they are paying for. What if the clones are sold just slightly cheaper than the originals(or the same price) without any disclosure.

At this point of time it's good to note that the quality of the fakes does not measure up to the originals. If it does it can be a problem or menace.

WongKN wrote:In the real world, clones plays an important role. Not everyone can afford an iPhone or iPad and those cheap china clones. Yes they may do a fraction of the work or functions and may not last as long. But I personally feel we must not wantonly put down the cheap china clones and their buyers and gloat if we can afford the original, we must not become too arrogant. NOT EVERYONE IS AS FORTUNATE AS US.

I think clones or fakes should be eliminated in the near future. As much as everyone wants to own anything their hearts desire, own what can be afforded. Of course I'm not going to elaborate on anyone's right of ownership, hearts desire or how to spend their money. Fakes are mostly compromised products of the real McCoy...period. I'm certainly NOT lumping together personal DIY products or some one off clone. Brand stuff have models to suit one's affordability. Fakes or clones is not an excuse to buy just because one cannot afford the real deal. As with music, tell me you all, would you be honestly proud to have a large percentage of your cd collection are 100% clone fakes (yes, they maybe available)? Ok..perhaps a few, just for experience sake? I think China is a dumphouse for clone stuff, especially in AV or IT stuff. Its not healthy as I see it. I'm with the view manufacturers are there merely to profit and unscrupulous.
There was one Ebay seller (apparently from China) who marketed a LP12 motor PSU board and was a badly made product which resulted in reliability problems. The price was a fraction of another 3rd party Linn Hercules II PSU kit. That kit is a complete re-design of the original Valhalla PSU and exceeded specifications instead, although Linn have never endorsed the product. Tell me that was a great deal and offered anyone who didn't want to pay for a quality product made by some HK group enthusiasts. I assume there's just as many horror stories like this from PRC. Just stay away from fakes and questionable clones of the real McCoy. Its risky...period!

ryder wrote:
Recently I just found out that there are clones for the Nokia N8 which are made in China. These were sold at around RM300 to RM350 whereas an original unit would cost about RM1,400-1,500. The clones look quite identical to the original

Ryder...

Difficult to differentiate from a physical standpoint, the only way to differentiate is looking at clarity of the fonts and graphics. The clones displays a jaggered edge in their fonts and graphics.

Another way, is to view the sticker where the Serial number or phone details are printed. Very roughly printed sticker and ususally the " Made In ..... (is a weird country) like Romania....

You can view these clones along Jalan Pasar and you got lots of takers.

cheers

Detecting clones and fakes require a trained eye, product knowledge and experience. Pasar road is typically a dumphouse, quite different from whatever it was in its early days as an electronic parts market.

Let me clarify it and put in another perspective. When I was referring to clones, I am more referring to OEM brands which are not exact copies of the original goods but designed to do similar stuff. So I see an LCD TV in China which looks like any generic LCD TV but carries a chinese name and functions as a TV. It has no pretentions of being a branded item. It is just an honest down to earth TV. Those are the ones which I see as having an important place in our society. Then, there are those which are made and branded just like the original. I suppose these are rightfully the ones which should be called clones though I usually refer to them as 'fakes' rather than 'clones'.

Anyway, fakes or clones, whatever one wants to call them, whether they have or do not have a place in society is entirely up to the individual. The difference usually comes when it is use to cheat people of their money. Otherwise, as MF says, there is some kind of wicked fun in buying a fake Tag Hauer watch from China and then wearing it around. As always it is always the finer details that makes or breaks an individual case.