Linn LP 12 & Naim

Hi, need advice on 2 things -

1)I Have an old Linn Sondek LP12 with Valhalla PSU, original arm and old cartridge. What are the stages to upgrade?

2) Am using Naim pre82 and amp250. Do i need to add a phonostage with the Linn?

For the 2nd question, you need to get naim phonostage, ie stageline.

PS...

Good that you have a LINN and it's an exceptional rig. Presumably the TT is in playing condition.

Get a phono stage ( of your choice ) and let it run in with the current specification, listen to SQ. Sort of get a feel of what you have in hand before deciding on what needs to get upgraded and mind you they are pretty costly.

I own a similar rig as yours and it's churning out good music. Did some work on the plinth, sort of strengthing the four corners. Put it up on spikes, rubber feet and all sorts. The spike option sounds clean & tight with clarity overall.

Go have a look at the following WEB LINK to get a feel of whats available :

1. http://forums.linn.co.uk/bb/

You can contact Mr Oh at 012 - 2060888 a Tech person that I and most of the forummers send the Hifi gear for repairs and advice.

Cheers

Provided the LP12 is in playable condition, try the Cirkus upgrade (if not upgraded already).

TQ for the replies. Just wondering that since the naim pre-amp has a phono input for mm and mc, will an additional phono stage improve it? The TT is in playable condition but does not sound as good as a cd player. The many websites and forums on the Internet i read have different opinions on upgrades. Some say cartridge first because the source is the most important. Some say power supply first and others say balancing and tuning first before changing the cartridge / psu , some say cirkus etc, etc. Is there a website to learn how to balance and tune a LP12 at home and what equipment is needed to do it or is it just better hand it to a linn specialist or ? Mr Oh to do it?

Hi PS...

In respect to phonostage there are quite a handfull of outboard or standalone units that are available in the market. There are the fixed unit options or the adjustable ones. Thats also is depending on your budget.

Does not sound as good as CD player...thats suprising....each person have different tastes. But a very well setup TT should sound much better then any CDP. But that my thoughts.

Which to upgrade and which direction to take is entirely up to you and your available finances in hand. To me personally before you go out forking out the dough...get your TT dialed in with the right setup specification, the right bounce, align / balance of the tonearm.

Two ways to go about doing this....is to outsource to third party like Mr Oh or a DIY route but this would entail you to get some item like a Stylus Gauge and a few others.

Do a search in this forum for Threads that are related to Linn TT and the Linn Forum would give you a better idea as well.

https://www.hifi4sale.net/t14400-step-up-from-a-linn-lp12?highlight=LP12

https://www.hifi4sale.net/t23198-rega-discussion-thread

Looking through this thread would give an idea of what to expect and know the resident TT specialist.

cheers

ps wrote:TQ for the replies. Just wondering that since the naim pre-amp has a phono input for mm and mc, will an additional phono stage improve it? The TT is in playable condition but does not sound as good as a cd player. The many websites and forums on the Internet i read have different opinions on upgrades. Some say cartridge first because the source is the most important. Some say power supply first and others say balancing and tuning first before changing the cartridge / psu , some say cirkus etc, etc. Is there a website to learn how to balance and tune a LP12 at home and what equipment is needed to do it or is it just better hand it to a linn specialist or ? Mr Oh to do it?

Just a tips...is ur vinyl collections a lot from ur statements u are the person who enjoy more digital sound like CD .... if ur vinyl collection is not much, my suggestion is better sell it the LP12 and ur vinyl and from there u upgrade into new era of digital sound like CAS ( Computer Audio Sytem ) more enjoyable and no fuss.

If ur vinyl collection is a lots and "SAYANG " to let it go then get a new era Turntable like Rega,Clearudio,Project or Edwards Audio this kind of turntable is easy like play a CD .... LP12 is not an easy turntable to maintain the owner must have a passion and emotional intimacy with it

Since ur pre amp already built in with phono input is better to get new cartridge for a start and go on with other upgrade

As mentioned by Wingman, regardless of the vintage of your LP12, provided ALL your components are in good condition the turntable should be able to sound better than a comparable CD setup. So perhaps there is something not in order. Your best bet is to have an expert go through the LP12.

As you may be aware, the LP12 is about 40 yrs old and if you upgrade from the 70s to current specs, about the only items you will keep are some nuts and the 2 bolts holding the top plate onto the plinth! If you are lucky you may retain your outer platter.

To answer your original question, here’s my 2 sen worth on the steps that you can take.

Plinth: some have problems with the glue where the corners are giving way. In any case some DIY corner blocks/bracing can rejuvenate older plinths.

Top Plate: should be completely flat, a slight curve towards the armboard is common though. Rear left side (where the motor is) should fit snug and tight. Later models come with a strengthening bolt. This can be DIYed using super glue and epoxy weld.

Suspension: get the latest set of suspension together with the bolts and nuts.

Motor: unless you wish to upgrade to the Radikal (latest & expensive power supply), change the old motor to a new one; less noise and better speed control. Also, some old motors don’t work with Lingo (a step up from the Valhalla). And get a new belt.

Bearing/sub-chassis: if you have the old bearing that sits on a sub-chassis that’s welded then you should consider upgrading to the newer bearing that sits on a stronger sub-chassis that’s epoxy glued. Linn calls this the Cirkus upgrade kit. BTW, the kit comes with an inner platter, suspension, armboard and belt as well. The very latest sub-chassis is the Keel which integrates an armboard in a single piece. Expensive!

Arm: if you have the Basik LVV, LVX or Plus, then consider upgrading to any of the latest arms in the market; plenty of choices. Linn’s latest is the Ekos SE. If you have the Ittok (assuming the bearings are still ok) then you can get a good cartridge to maximize this arm. The latest laminated armboard is also a must.

Cartridge: paying for an expensive cartridge won’t make sense if your arm is not up to it. Linn has the Akiva but you need an Ekos or something similar to partner it. There are also plenty of other choices.

Base board: most users discard the early hardboard and rubber footers, and place the plinth on glass or other materials. Linn’s latest is made of aluminium but still called the Trampolin. The earlier ones were made of a certain laminate.

Felt mat: get the new one which is thinner but better.

Lid Cover: the old dark cover came in the 70s and 80s, so for aesthetic reasons your LP12 will look good with the new translucent one. Latest ones have oval logo stickers.

Other options: it is very common to see/hear LP12s with non-Linn arm and cartridge combinations but it is also possible to fit other makes. Apart from Lingo, other power supplies that work with the Linn motor come from Hercules and Naim’s Armageddon. Origin Live made DC motors for the LP12 long before the Radikal. Now there’s also Funk. Competing with the Keel sub-chassis+armboard are the likes from Greenstreet, Funk and Rubikon. Plinths from Harban and Collison. Various mats to choose, even carbon composite top plates, different types of base board, stainless steel nuts and bolts, etc.

In other words plenty of choices on how to make your LP12 ending up into something else altogether! So unless you know what you are doing it is always best to try and stick to what Linn has to offer.

Hopefully you are now just as confused as the rest of us…

After you are settled with the turntable, you can now look at the phono stage to go along with your cartridge. If your Naim has the MM/MC cards then all you need is a good cartridge. There won't be any problems at all if it's a MM. If you get an MC and it doesn't match your MC input then you can either get the matching MC boards from Naim (if they still have those) or get a step-up transformer or buy a separate phono stage altogether.

Thanks for all the contributions. Very true that it gets more confusing as more and more information comes along. Prob sounds economical to look at the setup first then cartridge, etc etc. It certainly can cost a bomb changing this and that. Again many thanks to all. Will update if successful or not. Till next time.

I sometimes think (if price or funds allow) sell of the old one, buy the new Majik TT complete, no need for any headaches.
Very old LP12's do need quite a lot of works, new and updated parts and even then would bring it to late 80-90's specs.
The new Pro-ject 9cc tonearm with the Majik is quite a welcome breath of fresh air compared to the old Ittok or lower brethren.
But then again, local prices is always a primary concern for a new rig.

The Majik was selling for 7k I think, at the last KLIAV... How is the Pro-Ject arm like??

JediSavant wrote:The Majik was selling for 7k I think, at the last KLIAV... How is the Pro-Ject arm like??

I dont think so it's that cheap.. I was at our local dealer last month and cost of new Majik LP12 is more than that. It is above 10K. All in 1, with Linn Majik power supply and it's own built in phonostage.

I did ask whether I can opt for external phonostage such as Naim Stageline & 3rd party Hercules power supply. The idea is to cut down the cost. LOL! However, they dont do that. At the dealer's end, Linn doesnt do 3rd party equipment. Unfortunately they do not sell Hercules at all. I wish I can do that, one day perhaps.

Currently I own about 20 LPs, plus (100+ LPs from my brother-in-law - kept by him since end 70s). I'm still playing with Pro-ject Debut III, but my mind cant help thinking of LP12. It's just I dont like the Pro-ject tonearm, kinda too light. Yeah, it's entry level TT anyway.

Hercules II is an excellent upgrade at a modest price for Valhalla or the basic PSU in very old LP12's. Its all about price here and what the owner may afford.
Quite easy to acquire the Herc from Ebay and DIY fit, or have it fitted by someone competent.
Mine is a 90's Valhalla that was acquired initially as DOA, souped up by me and so far excellent although its only 33rpm capable. Most dead Valhalla board is easily repairable for the price of new parts and expertise to give it another lease of life.

Scuba...

As you have an alternate TT that makes your decision making much easier. Take it slow and steady. Digest the information oveload and decide what's meeded or what's critical.

Enjoy the journey.

The last i enquired on the New Majik was something in the range of 10 to 12 k and a used LP12 on "Mudah" is at eye popping prices ...phew sweating.... and sweating....

cheers

the Majik was definitely on sale at KLIAV for 7-8k. Built in phono stage?? That's weird...

Hi folks, just found out that my Naim preamp has phono K boards 523 fitted for mc cartridge. That may be one of the reasons for the not so good sound as the cartridge I have is a mm cartridge. Anyone can recommend a suitable mc cartridge for the Linn basik lvx arm? I have read about denon mc 103 or 304. not too expensive or the goldring/audio technica? Any other suggestions?

Yes, its prudent to spend on the highest quality cartridge you think you can afford. It'll certainly lift your musical experience. Of course the better the LP12 is tuned, the better it'll lift the experience further.
Other than Denon, Dynavector or Transfiguration cartridges are also logical choices for Linn.
Audio Technica?...personally not really in favor of this.

I'm a big fan of the DL-103... on older tables, it's quite forgiving, and yet offers music that simply gets on with it, and it isn't that loading sensitive, so it would work well with a plug in phono-card that doesn't allow for fine adjustment...

...and it's relatively cheap compared to Dynavector and the mid-range Benz carts...

wingman wrote:Scuba...

As you have an alternate TT that makes your decision making much easier. Take it slow and steady. Digest the information oveload and decide what's meeded or what's critical.

Enjoy the journey.

The last i enquired on the New Majik was something in the range of 10 to 12 k and a used LP12 on "Mudah" is at eye popping prices ...phew sweating.... and sweating....

cheers

Thanks wingman for the advise.My first priority now is to fix the inner groove distortion. Not sure whether to send back to Tong Lee or not. Worried if the azimuth is out of allignment and this could damage the records.

Cheers.

ps wrote:Hi folks, just found out that my Naim preamp has phono K boards 523 fitted for mc cartridge. That may be one of the reasons for the not so good sound as the cartridge I have is a mm cartridge. Anyone can recommend a suitable mc cartridge for the Linn basik lvx arm? I have read about denon mc 103 or 304. not too expensive or the goldring/audio technica? Any other suggestions?

PS,
In the 80s, the Basik was meant for MM cartridges and the Ittok was for MC cartridges. Your pre/power combo is very much towards the higher end of a Naim setup; the very reason why it has an MC phono card. Even if the bearings in your Basik are still ok, you will not be getting much out of a good modern day MC cartridge, so at best it should be a temporary measure until you fit a better arm.

JediSavant wrote:the Majik was definitely on sale at KLIAV for 7-8k. Built in phono stage?? That's weird...

It was informed by the sales person la. Built in phono stage. Kinda wierd thou. Not even stated by Linn in their website except for upgrading path which is about the same cost as Majik LP12. I wish I know who is the technical staff at Perfect Hifi.