KLIAV Show 2009 Reports

Wong, I 100% agree with your statement. I always like to hear those set-up which are simple without using those `bing bang boom' source to play. If the music come up nature, it mean the whole set-up is good. Example Harbeth set-up, if a normal people enter that room, they will sure not impress with the speaker & set-up which are so simple & they don't even want to stay on to listen but not for those who know how to appreciate true sound quality of Harbeth speaker.

Having read all the posts, I have the tendency to conclude that the whole show is a cacophony of 'bing bang boom' and 'tok tok chiang'.

Just as well I didn't take the trouble to drive all the way to attend the show. Spent my weekend though listenning to another version of 'tok to chiang', which is this album:-





The 'tok tok chiang' from Track 5 is uncannily real, and seems to be coming from afar. Excellent depth reproduction, superb dynamic contrast, and utterly natural.

It fools me the first time, as I thought there was really a funeral procession going on down the road.

Hi all, managed to visit the show on Fri and Sun. Was not too crowded on both days.

Love the NAIM set-up - the sound was really good but could not get into the room to check out the models and speakers - any one can help on this ?

My favourite set-up was the CREEK / EPOS set-up - Accoustic Arts did a great job.

Nothing great on the CDs, thought the BR-DVDs were on great offer though on limited titles.

Maybe next year HiFi4Sale.net can set-up a hall and private owners can gather to discuss, meet-up and/or even sell their pre-owned items - within careful guidelines and controls - what do you think ?

Anyway KUDOS to all for setting up the show - lets look forward to an even better one next year.

adrianj9 wrote:
Maybe next year HiFi4Sale.net can set-up a hall and private owners can gather to discuss, meet-up and/or even sell their pre-owned items - within careful guidelines and controls - what do you think ?

Having a room there comes with a cost, its not free. I'm sure this group can contact Mr Dick Tan of 3dotevents to discuss the feasibility of it all.

fizi wrote:
Im very disappointed with most of the cd seller coz all the top audiophile cd selling at hi price..some mark up the price gila gila..for instant im buying this ingram washington and take dake at Rm60 per piece(local seller not from ebay or amazon) but during the show most of the seller sell at RM80..most of the cheap cd is from their box inside the store,thats only open during the show maybe..

i totally agree with you, they increase price like crazy and then give you a small little 20% off, then they say very cheap already lah,

this one is really potong leher business

I am glad my post was interesting and happy to see my opinion of what is suitable music is agreeable to you guys. Nevertheless, I have to say that I feel audiophile type 'bing-bang-boom' 'music' (if we can really call them music) do have their place as well. For one, they are often recorded at very high resolution and quality. So they are often useful to test the system, for bass extension, treble, dynamics, imaging, etc. They are also useful for set-up work as well. 'Proper' music are usually not 'audiophile' in nature. This is why those 'real music' with very good recordings quickly become very famous and much sought after (e.g. Jennifer Warnes Famous Blue Raincoat, they are milking this album dry - they just released the anniversary reissue of 3 LPs, asking for over RM300 at the show !). Or the latest Chai-Ching recordings. Of course sometimes when we are just venturing into this hobby, we can get into a period where 'audiophile' type music becomes our main diet. I will admit I myself went through this phase and sometimes my (at that time) girlfriend (now my wife) asks me how I can listen to a solitary fellow banging away on the drums the whole night ! (Sheffield Drum Record) Perhaps this is a phase a number of us (if we are honest) will admit we have went through before !

Finally, about the suggestion for that hifi4sale forum room in future KLAVS. I know a room is not cheap. I think those 'booths' or tables in the halls are a bit cheaper. I remember my friend paying tens of thousands of ringgit for his room throughout the few years he participated. It is very nice to think of such things. But the very first step we have to make before we can turn that into reality is to first establish our credibility. That means quality discussions in this forum, with little to none flame wars. Matured debates. Comments made with proper facts. And a fair treatment to everyone. This includes giving hifi dealers their due where praise is warranted. So that when we must complain for e.g., then we are taken seriously (i.e. not to become the boy who cries wolf). It won't be easy, nor fast. That's IMHO only of course.

"Comments made with proper facts. And a fair treatment to everyone. This includes giving hifi dealers their due where praise is warranted."

I believe that music is a theraphy where it can give soul to death, relax to those who are stress, direction to those who lost and it heal to whom who are sick. So it should be a healthy hobby and let this site be a place where fair treatment is warranted to whom who deserved.

This year's show is the best in my recent memories .They were some outstanding systems and some of them were rather dissapointing.

Here are my top 3 fav rooms.

1.Tropical audio.Quad -Harbeth.For those who were wondering what the fuss about Harbeth was all about should have been there.I was tapping my toes all the way.Simply Brilliant....

2.Swedish Statement.I've got a taste of heaven,especially when playing classical.Effortless.cOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER,if they got the polarity correct..Yup ,gentlemen I think nobody bother to ensure that the polarity was correct........I cxould hear this mistakes in many rooms.

3.SimAudio-German Physics room.I have heard the German Physics before but The Siongapore Dealer set ut up beutifully.ThePolarity was correct in this room ,or is it the omni that makes polarity a moot point?Simaudio easily bettered their Americans breathens like Krell,Mark Levinson ....

tHE 3 MISTAKES most dealers made:

1.Wrong Polarity.I think it has got to do with the fact that most Electronics are fed by the 'American' type plugs.BUT what I find inexcusable was the fact that very few bother to check for polarity;and none seems to carry the polarity checker........Amazing.....


2.Not enought acoustic treatment.iT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE BIG or bulky,but things like the Shun MOOk,the Brass lens,Acoustic Art room treatment.......

3.Dirty electricity;many use polluted current off the wall!!!QRT,Bybee,Acme stuff should have been used...


If you go to the CES or MUNICH show you would not see those 3 errorrs made

They might not even have enough time to do acoustic treatments.
Given such a short time, they have to do so many unpacking of stuffs and installations of the systems. Not an easy task.

I, for one, also hope to see a more grand show with more goodies and with more systems set up beautifully. But come to think of the other way round, things are not as easy as what we think.

Definitely, KLIAV is not up against the Munich show, which is a High End show. I also believe the amount of investment required for the Munich show is huge. The market demand, buying power, number of enthusiasts, the interests from manufacturers themselves and the great number of visitors have all contributed to the Munich Show and CES. The Munich Show is also a showcase for the manufacturers' latest and finest products.

Here in Malaysia, things are quire different. This hobby is only limited to a small group of people in Msia. Thus, the demand and the crowd is smaller compared to Europe and US. Hosting an event as great as Munich Show here will be an extremely huge effort and the amount of investment required will also be gigantic. Not to forget the risk which the organiser have to consider in throwing such amount of investment. Security, transportations, space & etc etc...

I enjoy the KLIAV show which is held annually and feel glad that many exhibitors took part in it even at this turbulent moment of the economy.

cAR O SCOPE

therein lies the problems....40% of the sound[or thereabout] comes from the room......You have to spend the time and efffort to make the best out of your ssystem,whether it is your office set-UP OR A DEMO DURING THE SHOW.

Likewise,I think if you can afford the fees for the room SURELY you can afford some kind of filtration to the electrics...

And Checking POLARITY is the FIRST thing they tought you in Hifi,.....and It cost nothing!!!!YOu do not get the polarity right,be prepared to burn all your money on upgrades..

If you do not make preparations .be prepared to fail

Tin,

How do one check POLARITY. I have a power conditioner where the plug have changed to our std plug (original US). However components plugged to the conditioner are in US plugs. Does this cause POLARITY.

Thks.

Danieltan,

Yup ,I am afraid you have to recheck the polarity'there is a high chance it might not be right.

1.the easiest-and most foolproof wayIMO- is to get the device being sold at ultrhigh fidelity canada.Simple and effective.

2,Check the Galen carol audio,USA on how to do it manually....

3.Audio Asylum has covered the topics many times over

How do I know whether the Polarity in the plugs of my system is correct or not from the outside? Through listening?

If you are experienced enought and trained your ears,you could easily identify systems that has wrong polarity,if you are familiar with the particular sound of the equipments.

Having been around many friends houses I have always been surprised at how many systems had their polarity wrong..

The 'symptom'is simple,if you always wants to upgrade and the equipment sound different from the review /dealer demo,i STRONGLY suggest you check the polarity of your wiring/equipment..

ANyway,That is the FIRST thing you do when you start YOUR hifi journey......install a dedicated line and check the POLARITY....everything else comes later.That is THE FOUNDATION of a good sound

Tin,

I have to congratulate you for being having the best of Golden Ears. Rooms like Swedish Statement are being set up by the Designer himself Mr Vitus who flew all the way from Danmark to setup and approved the sound. His power amplifier alone cost more than RM150K, couple with his CD Player and preamp, it wld be approx.RM300K? And with Merten speakers?? More than RM1M.

He is used to pair with Merten loudspeaker, which at this instance is the top of the line supreme coltrane.



Kondo also had their chief and designer (Masaki San-maybe wrong spelling...sorry)here from Japan to set up the system.

The designers are all world renown in their respective fields. I have full confidence in what they are doing. Afterall, they designed some of the most expensive and prestigeous hifi equipments in the world.

I am sure the other rooms are also setup professionally within their room constraints.

One thing just puzzles me is that you just listen to it maybe for just a few minutes in each very noisy room and you can tell that their polarity is wrong while all those professional people in the trade conld not figure it out for so many days. Hmmmmm.......

And I am talking about world reowned designers themselves and not just technicians.

Maybe you have better golden ears, another example of Malaysia's 'MALAYSIA BOLEH'. All the world's top designer shd employ yr service to set up thier systems in HIFI shows all over the world. It cld be very lucrative.

Anybody can differentiate sound differences between both pair of similar speakers, one in cherry finish and the other in ebony finish? Last time I heard a person can detect subtle differences as the different wood color affect the sound to certain extent. Other guys who cannot hear the difference were labeled as either having tin ears of deaf. That guy surely has the best golden ears being able to do that. Truly "Malaysia Boleh" :-)

I can only manage to locate this. An accurate link would be most helpful. Otherwise the human 'polarity' could be upset!

http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/acpolarity.html

Another useful link for the uninitiated.

http://67.192.249.47/~psaudio/ps/how-to/how-to-resolve-absolute-polarity/

Polarity is important.

But can you step into a hifi room and within a few minutes determine "ah.....your polarity is wrong....yr system doesn't sound right".

VS126 wrote:Polarity is important.

But can you step into a hifi room and within a few minutes determine "ah.....your polarity is wrong....yr system doesn't sound right".

VS126, i'm totally support your statement... our ears are so sensitive meh ?

here are the symptoms of system with 'wrong ' polarity;

1.Harsh sounding

2.centre -vocal focus is ill defined

3.hole in the middle sound

4.Lack of dynamics-lethargic sounding..


Of course I am talking about AC polarity here.....not Absolute polarity..

anyway If I hear my friends want to upgrade because he feels the system lack focus,base d on my experience,90% of the time it is because of the wrong polarity[AC]

http://www.uhfmag.com/AC.html


that's the device I am talking about...


Can you tell whether a system has incorrect AC polarity,OF COURSE IF;

1.you are trainrd to do so

2.You are familiar with the setup correctly done

Since you mention Swedish Statement Room, it is anything but harsh, ill defined focus, hole in the middle and lethargic. I do not mean they are the best sounding room.

What I mean is that within minutes of listening, you can conclude that they have their polarity reversed. Even to a trained ear and audio supremo like Mr Vitus, who designed the Vitus Amplifier and CD player, he cannot detect what you can?

Who can be more familiar than the man himself?
Who are more trained than the man himself?

If he does not understand about AC polarity, what is he doing designing audio amplifier?

I do not mean to offend anyone, but those people spend a lot of effort and time doing what they have done and they have done a fantastic job.

BTW, I think the Swedish Statement Room sounds fantastic. Anyone notice the two Swedish Blond Beauties?

Since you mention Swedish Statement Room, it is anything but harsh, ill
defined focus, hole in the middle and lethargic. I do not mean they are
the best sounding room.........

Have you ever heard the Coltrane Supreme before?

I have CES 2006..What you have heard in KL is just about 70 -80% of what it is capable.....

of course ,we are talking in relative term here.A badly set system like the Swedish Statement would sound better than a Perfectly set system on entry level basis.

BTW,why don't you drop an e-mail to Mr Vitus whether he checked the AC polarity ,one by one before he set up the system?

P

Have you even wonder, well maybe...

The Clotrane Supreme matches better with the Beowolf?

Bad match with Vitus Audio?

Vitus Audio not Run In?

Cable mismatch?

Room acoustic?

Placement?

Current supply at the hotel is not good?

Could be hundreds of reason a system cld sound harsh.
etc..etc..

Why such a blanket statement about AC polarity?

90% of exhibitors got it wrong?? are they all novice??? Demostration of Sony 1500w Mini Compo at Jaya Jusco?

I will stop here as there is no end to it. You readers can make up yr own assessment.

To end this thread, I must congratulate you for being such a golden ear...something you hear four years ago, still able to compare to something so current. Must have moved you a lot at that time.


Thanks for your time.

VS126,

You know there is a check list for everything,and all that you eluded could be a possibality;BUT the first thing that should have been checked is the AC polarity and YES I am afraid most exhibitors neglected this part..


You could go on insulting me all you want ,never claim to have a golden ear,but merely stating the obvious.

You just have to read;"get better sound" by Jim Smith ,to read of examples of 'screw-ups' done by major manufacturers during the show the commonest being not checking the correct AC polarity......


BTW,Is your system AC polarity correct?I have a sneaking suspicion that you might not have checked it before,hence the anger towards me.....

Hi tin,

VS126 has made his point quite explicitly, and I don't think he is insulting you but merely stating the facts, which I agree for most of the part.

It started from the first post you made in this thread as below:-

"2.Swedish Statement.I've got a taste of heaven,especially when playing classical.Effortless.cOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER,if they got the polarity correct..Yup ,gentlemen I think nobody bother to ensure that the polarity was correct........I cxould hear this mistakes in many rooms.

3.SimAudio-German Physics room.I have heard the German Physics before but The Siongapore Dealer set ut up beutifully.ThePolarity was correct in this room ,or is it the omni that makes polarity a moot point?Simaudio easily bettered their Americans breathens like Krell,Mark Levinson ...."

From the above statements it appears that you have confirmed that the polarity of many rooms are screwed up just by listening, without any form of measurements taken or verified. That was the reason VS126 suggested you have golden ears, which very well may be true.

In your previous message, you stated "You could go on insulting me all you want ,never claim to have a golden ear,but merely stating the obvious."

The above statement seems to be contradicting each other.

I do agree there are many factors and challenges involved in setting up high-end systems to sound at their optimum within the limitations and constraints of the available room and space. Most of the points raised by VS126 are valid. We are free to criticise and comment on the good and bad, but to make blanket statement on improper polarity of most setups just my listening seems like stretching it a bit further. That was how the conglatulatory note had come by on your pair of "golden" ears".

As always, I enjoy having a healthy discussion in the forum. No offense intended.

Keep it up guys.

Hi Bro, no offense to you and no insult. Just admire your listenning skill.

I listen mostly to music rather than audio equipment, so I am not so bother about all the snake oil. Further more, I have a modest system so the resolution is not as good as those super high end systems.

Maybe we cld have tea someday and learn more from you. Thanks for yr input. we cld learn alot from people like you.

This is an interesting topic. It would be easier to understand the effect of reversed AC polarity if the symptons associated with it was posted earlier.

But before we put blame on any party for this problem of polarity, if it does exist, we must understand that there are two places where it could had been created.

To quote Jim Smith:

"First, you should know that there are two places where the original event's acoustic polarity could be inverted:
(1) Somewhere in the recording chain (microphones, cables, mixer
boards, microphone preamps, etc).

(2) Somewhere in the playback system (a component may invert
signal polarity, or it could be an incorrect speaker cable hook-
up).

The full write-up appears here:http://67.192.249.47/~psaudio/ps/how-to/how-to-resolve-absolute-polarity/


P.S. Maybe one can check the effect of AC polarity by using a Schuko plug which can interchanged the L and N phase of the power supply.

Just my own test after reading the above...reversing the 2 pin plugs on my turntable power supply did result in not subtle changes to the sound of my system. In one of the positions, voice has more focus and a darker background. Suggest everybody giving it a try. It is free afterall .

Tham wrote:Just my own test after reading the above...reversing the 2 pin plugs on my turntable power supply did result in not subtle changes to the sound of my system. In one of the positions, voice has more focus and a darker background. Suggest everybody giving it a try. It is free afterall .

My guess is that the correct polarity is when the voices are more focus.

The question is not whether polarity makes a difference in sound.

It is about a person's ability to tell if a system's polarity is reversed by listening to it for a few minutes in a hifi shows, mostly to systems unknown to him. (Unknown means different combinations).

I will vote 'NO'.

There are just too many variables.

hi..if posible try to discuss this polarity issue at the US TYPE POWER CORD topics or can always create a new topic..sometime readers just wanted to read the feedback from the AVSHOW..

https://www.hifi4sale.net/equipment-discussions-f6/us-type-power-cord-t539.htm


Tq

VS126 wrote:The question is not whether polarity makes a difference in sound.

It is about a person's ability to tell if a system's polarity is reversed by listening to it for a few minutes in a hifi shows, mostly to systems unknown to him. (Unknown means different combinations).

I will vote 'NO'.

There are just too many variables.

You are just being personal.

We are here to share experiences.

There are 3 types of 'polarity', for the benefit of those new to hifi. I am not sure of the exact terms used so I sort of used my own terms but I hope my explanation makes up for that.

1. Connection polarity, as in you connected the speakers wrongly to the amp (+ to - and vice versa, or red to black terminal, esp one speaker correct and one speaker wrong.) This sort of wrong polarity is very easy to hear.

2. Signal polarity, sometimes known as phase polarity or inverted and correct phase. This is the type Tycam's quote of Jim Smith above is referring to. I.e. the signal is 180deg reversed and the speaker cone (for e.g.) is pumping in instead of pushing out. This one is not always very obvious but with experience, can be detected easily. My friend/dealer for e.g. will catch it within a few seconds into the music. Note, as explained by Jim Smith above, some recordings are inverted phase. E.g. Mobile Fideilty are recording inverted phase and if your amp has the feature, reversing the phase will bring the images sharply into focus. For e.g.) If your amp don't have, then if you are in this hobby just to enjoy music, take my advice and don't dwell into this matter too much, just continue enjoying the music (or else it's going to be very expensive).

3. Power supply polarity. I.e. live connected to neutral and vice versa (heaven help you if you connect either one to earth ! ). This one is iffy. Sometimes one can hear, sometimes one cannot. Also, the careless can easily blame power supply polarity for some sonic problems, which in reality could be caused by other things. Some components are very sensitive to signal polarity. If you are electronics savvy, if you open up some amps, you will see that the way the power cable is connected to the transformer, it will definitely have an impact to the circuitry inside. Other components may not be sensitive to power supply polarity because internally, the AC is converted to DC which doesn't have polarity to talk about.

I have my own opinions in this matter and I think both parties have their own very valid points though personally, I tend to favour 1 side more (won't tell which side). Nevertheless, and more importantly, as suggested, since this thread is about the KLAV show, it's best if further debates about power supply polarity be brought out to its own dedicated thread. Let's re-focus back on the show in this thread.

maxis ate my previous post! barsket

and so, to follow WongKN's advice, my fave rooms of the show:

joint #1: harbeth and audionote

they both sounded life-like; the former for music sounding true to real
instruments, the latter for sounding like they were being played by
real musicians who meant it. there is an overlap here of course, but
both, despite their different approaches (tonal fidelity and dynamic
fidelity) conveyed something of the real, tangible, visceral event. er,
I own both brands so maybe I'm biased! but a good friend of mine, in
whose impartiality and ears I trust, and who does not own either,
concurred without any prompting! btw, we were at the show on the
saturday, from around 5pm, so those who may want to factor in tnb power
supply fluctuations etc can do so.

joint #2's: vitus-marten, bryston-pmc

the former, because it was the only set up that day that conveyed the
virtues of a high-end system, ie realistic scale, a believable sense of
a full orchestral experience. Well done! the latter because it almost
accomplished the above (the pmc's weren't specced at 20hz-20khz like
the martens) but wasn't tripped up by real world (ie non audiophile)
recordings. having heard the brystons before, i've the feeling they're
very underrated for not being sentimental and trying to push your
'emotional' buttons, whether from tear-jerky vocals or
chip-on-the-shoulder megaprojek bass.

sorry, but apart from the vitus-marten system, all the other megabuck
systems didnt tickle my fancy (missed the meridian system though). they
were either middle of the road or ingratiating.

come on fellas, take a stand... and i dont mean a megabuck hifi speaker stand

thanks for indulging my ranting. molotov cocktails and bouquets accepted without prejudice

To stir things up a bit of discussion about the show, I have to say that while I felt the Kondo Audio-Note Ongaku was good sounding (I sat down for much longer than I planned, eventhough I needed to rush off), unfortunately I did not think highly of the Harbeth system unlike many others. I felt the bass was woolly and lack definition. The midrange was good and something to my taste (I used Spendor SP2/2 for years) but the overall sound was dissapointing. So I left without even saying hi (dealer is personal family friend).

You see.. the Kondo Audio-Note system was sweet sounding, very pleasant, easy to anyone's ears (even the seasoned audiophile), not exactly neutral but some pleasant and very acceptable color (the speakers). In my humblest opinion, THATS THE WAY a good hifi should sound. Specifications are meaningless with huge live dynamics, very live performance, pinpoint accurate imaging, can hear bat droppings and teardrops...THAT'S NOT HIFI!!!...that only serves to impress on short term. I guess the Kondo system rates as a system just about anyone can live with for a long long time and play just about any music.

i agree to both wongkn and cmboy. i likes the kondo system more than the harbeth/quad. the bass in harbeth room is abit boomy but nevertheless it still very good value for money. but if i have the money i will sure go for the kondo system.

Lamkochai wrote:i agree to both wongkn and cmboy. i likes the kondo system more than the harbeth/quad. the bass in harbeth room is abit boomy but nevertheless it still very good value for money. but if i have the money i will sure go for the kondo system.

Have the money is one matter, but decent hifi with Kondo type sound can be achieved with a NOS (modded non oversampling) CDP/DAC combination, passive pre with a decent 20W-30W PP/ or single ended vintage tube amp (superb DIY or quality British vintage) and a choice of perhaps the upper range Harbeth speakers.
I don't want to elaborate about good room acoustics as thats subjective but enhance your listening pleasure to a greater degree. All these as suggested likely not be the cost of the Kondo system which is quite or very expensive to buy.

WongKN wrote:To stir things up a bit of discussion about the show, I have to say that while I felt the Kondo Audio-Note Ongaku was good sounding (I sat down for much longer than I planned, eventhough I needed to rush off), unfortunately I did not think highly of the Harbeth system unlike many others. I felt the bass was woolly and lack definition. The midrange was good and something to my taste (I used Spendor SP2/2 for years) but the overall sound was dissapointing. So I left without even saying hi (dealer is personal family friend).

Hi WongKN,



Sorry, should have made myself clear: the Audio Note that got my vote
for best sound of the the show (joint #1 with Harbeth) was the UK Audio
Note room, the one with the AN-E speakers and Conquest monoblocks
(9watts a side). The Kondo Ongaku system I found nice, but maybe
prettier than life. I listened to the soundtrack from Dead Man Walking
(the Michelle Shocked song) in the Audio Note UK room. On the Harbeths,
it was Etta James. Both tracks have a strong bass element, the former's
funkier start/stop sycopated rhythm really showed off just how
dynamically life-like a single-ended triode system can be, low frequencies included! The Harbeths
I dont recall as boomy, but it had a realistic sense of energy and non-hifi enhanced (acoustic) bass guitar too,
like the AN system. It was, to these idiosyncratic ears anyway, a
magnitude more believable than the otherwise lovely Kondo sound

Actually the Harbeths were driven significantly and purposely much louder than usual, perhaps because the location is already noisy with other systems playing simultaneously. Anyway, its purely a demo with compromise and just to give you ideas of its potential, similarly with other systems there. Listening to them closely at the shop (obviously much less noisy enviroment) is another experience altogether.

The Harbeth I found it never boomy nor woolly, in fact bouncy when I listen to Yuri Honing Trio of Walking on the Moon. Could be at my standing position, I don't know but it was captivating...

this would be another issue, how many of us listened at sweet spot. Some may standing, sitting off centre,,,etc

I think by now everybody should know most setup in hifi shows are compromised due to the room and many other variables although dealers and some designers(as claimed) have put in effort to set up the systems in these hotel rooms. Most of the time the systems sound 80-90% its optimum with some much lower due to poor setup and room acoustics among other things. Not only KLIAV show but folks at CES have experienced the same thing with poorly setup systems in bad rooms. Some of the gears that get criticised do not get demonstrated in a manner that show their full capabilities.

People who go to the show and condemn a manufacturer or product for sounding terrible are being disingenuous. From these threads we can see constrasting views with two people making completely different observations about the sound on the same system. This just goes on to show one can't really form much of an opinion about the sound in show conditions especially during a very brief stop to each room. If one drops by each room several times on different days, this will allow one to form a more qualified opinion on what's going on there although it may not be all that accurate.

While most rooms sounded great, I only dropped by the Harbeth room for less than 5 minutes being quite familiar with the sound of the system. An old man was seen holding up a newspaper cutting of the SHL5 and negotiating with Sam on the price of the SHL5 on the last day of the show. Since I didn't want to interfere much I walked away without even listening to it. Some of my friends who arrived early on the first day(some Singaporeans) commented the dynamics of the SHL5 is unbelievable as their ears are still ringing after walking out of the room. I presume Sam must be playing close to 100dB or more as he usually does until we ask him to lower it down. There are many other great high-end systems that sound better in some other ways but few would match the real value of the modest Harbeth system at real world prices. IMO.

Lastly, shows are strictly for checking things out. If a system is successfully dialed-in to the point where it grabs one's attention under show conditions, chances are it can be better under more idealised home conditions especially if in dedicated rooms. After all, how many folks can get a system really dialed-in overnight in a room with unknown acoustics? We should take that into account although some rooms may have been set up by industry professionals.

Hi,

Has anybody attended the presentation by Franck Tchang on his resonators in CMY room at level 4?

The resonators are made of different metals starting with copper, silver, gold and platinum. They are of semi-hemispheric shape of 17mm diameter with 4 external "wings".

Wish to know your feed back on the resonators.

123_rocketman wrote:Hi,

Has anybody attended the presentation by Franck Tchang on his resonators in CMY room at level 4?

The resonators are made of different metals starting with copper, silver, gold and platinum. They are of semi-hemispheric shape of 17mm diameter with 4 external "wings".

Wish to know your feed back on the resonators.

Great discussion, lots of respect for everyone's opinion and lots of intelligent input. I agree that sharing of our opinions clearly shows how difficult it is to make good judgement of the sound in a show. For my case, due to my tight schedule, I simply dropped in each room, stand at the side and listened to see if the sound takes my fancy. If it does, I then make an effort to stay to listen more. Unfortunately, the Harbeth system did not take my fancy but it could also be simply bad timing - I could've dropped by when they put in a lousy CD. As explained, having helped my friend man several shows in past year, I am very experienced with cases where lousy source materials kills a system. Perhaps they tried a CD for the 1st time only to find it booms in the room. Whereas others who dropped by at different times were more fortunate, to catch the system when it was sounding like it is supposed to. All kinds of possibilities can happen and having helped my friend in several shows, I know this well. In the end, observations that the show is just a fun experience and that serious listening should be done only with extended sessions is the best advice. However, sometimes it may not be possible to listen to those really top of the range systems outside of a hifi show environment as few dealers will have the financial capability to stock up on the top-end equipment long term.

More importantly, it looks like everyone has enjoyed the KLAV tremendously and in the end, this is really all that matters.

I have to agree with the above post. I personally do not find the Harbeth Room to my fancy.

I missed it on the first day and specially went on the second day just to listen to the well praised Harbeth in this forum.

Yeah, it did something right, but the bass was all over the room and the highs metallic. I am trying very hard to like it but just do not understand the rave. Is it me?

Perhaps it is the setup, maybe it is the cable but it's performance is in no way near those high end systems like the Swedish Statement, Kondo, German Physic, Gryphon, Ayre etc etc.

The Harbeths were playing very safe music with no frequency extremes. So it sounds good to lots of people. Feed it some torture disc and I am sure they will shake their heads.

Having said that, the Harbeth is still better than alot of speakers in it's price range. It is a sensible speaker in a home environment where you do not listen at breakneck levels. I am sure it will sound much better when properly set up at home.

I hope my observation does not cause a lot of flames but it is just what I feel. YMMV.

I went to the show early that day.
Went to many rooms until stomach empty.
Could not tahan and continued again after lunch.
Did not regret spending a long time there especially after my lunch.
There is this kind of unique vocal reproduction by the Kondo system.
I dont know how to describe but it is so special.
At that time, they were playing a Chinese female vocalist song.

Each Ongaku has 20lbs. of silver in it. Would be sinful if it doesn't sound special.