Surge Protectors - A Myth?

I dont think so....based on first hand experience.

With the thunderstorm in Klaang Valley nowadays, I thank God for putting in my head practicality in my hifi set up. I agree to compromise a negligible loss in SQ by connecting all my appliances to Belkin PF50 PureAV.

I came back one day and saw my whole set up was out of power but my PF50 is still running. Asked my wife whether did the power to the house trip. She said no. I turned on all my set up and voila...everything is working honky dory. Didnt think much of it until I met my bro in law later that evening who have just lost the following electrical goods due to the lightning strike.

1. 2 x 42" LED TV
2. 1 x super duper PC (he is a computer freak)
3. 2 x ASTRO decoder
4. 1 PS3

All worth about RM20K. He did not use any surge protector.

Then I realise that my PF50 actually managed to protect my set up during the lightning strike earlier that day.

How many of you forummers are using a surge protector? If not, how do you protect your set up from a power surge?

Hmm elhefe,

Besides Belkin PF50 PureAV, do you use any other power conditioner/power regenarator?

Currently I am using surge protectors on my current 2 desktops after lightning fried my first 2 desktops couple of years ago

Either I look for surge protectors to protect my gears from lightning or I better be hardworking to turn off and unplug my gears from the mains whenever I leave home.

kamfei

Hi kamfei,

I just use belkin pf50 with no other conditioner etc.

To be frank, at any other time, my set up is on all the time. But with the current thunderstorm, I plug off everything when not in use. I actually consider myself lucky first time around. 2nd time maybe even the pf50 may not be able to protect my set up.

quick question guys, is the shunyata hydra also a power surge protector?

Thinking of invesing in one, but not sure exactly what it does...

Bal:D

elhefe wrote:Hi kamfei,

I just use belkin pf50 with no other conditioner etc.

To be frank, at any other time, my set up is on all the time. But with the current thunderstorm, I plug off everything when not in use. I actually consider myself lucky first time around. 2nd time maybe even the pf50 may not be able to protect my set up.

Thanks elhefe!

I am wondering how surge protector affects SQ.
Any personal review when your audio equipments is used with and without the belkin pf50?

Some said surge protectors degrade the SQ.
Some said you are better off with an UPS.
All we know is...he is called : audition!

kamfei

bal wrote:quick question guys, is the shunyata hydra also a power surge protector?

Thinking of invesing in one, but not sure exactly what it does...

Bal:D

Hi bal,

I bumped into this :

TRIDENT DEFENSE SYSTEM
- ZrCa-2000 Noise Reduction Compound
- Noise Reduction: Four VF filters (12-element)
- Surge Protection: 40,000A
- Over-current: Electromagnetic breaker
- Each outlet individually filtered

http://www.shunyata.com/Content/technical-Hydra8specs.html


Time-Tested Protection
For more than ten-years, Shunyata
Hydra designs have proven to deliver the ultimate in electrical
protection for thousands of professional and consumer audio-video
systems with their three-stage (Trident) defense system. Over that time,
Shunyata Hydras have maintained a near zero-failure rate both
domestically and overseas. All Hydra and Guardian Pro models have a
similar three-stage protection package on board that includes Shunyata's
proprietary MPDA filter network, surge protection and the Cadillac of
protection breakers, a custom-made electromagnetic breaker (described
below). The Guardian Pro and Hydras passive design and three-stage
protection circuits insure they will remain the most trouble-free
power-distribution units on the market.

http://www.shunyata.com/Content/technical-PowerDist.html

Too technical for me to digest...I'll leave this to you

kamfei

Surge protector only works when it is plugged in ..if you still connect the TV or Receiver to outdoor antenna the equipment will be fried although unplug from main socket..

kamfei0512 wrote:

bal wrote:quick question guys, is the shunyata hydra also a power surge protector?

Thinking of invesing in one, but not sure exactly what it does...

Bal:D

Hi bal,

I bumped into this :

TRIDENT DEFENSE SYSTEM
- ZrCa-2000 Noise Reduction Compound
- Noise Reduction: Four VF filters (12-element)
- Surge Protection: 40,000A
- Over-current: Electromagnetic breaker
- Each outlet individually filtered

http://www.shunyata.com/Content/technical-Hydra8specs.html


Time-Tested Protection
For more than ten-years, Shunyata
Hydra designs have proven to deliver the ultimate in electrical
protection for thousands of professional and consumer audio-video
systems with their three-stage (Trident) defense system. Over that time,
Shunyata Hydras have maintained a near zero-failure rate both
domestically and overseas. All Hydra and Guardian Pro models have a
similar three-stage protection package on board that includes Shunyata's
proprietary MPDA filter network, surge protection and the Cadillac of
protection breakers, a custom-made electromagnetic breaker (described
below). The Guardian Pro and Hydras passive design and three-stage
protection circuits insure they will remain the most trouble-free
power-distribution units on the market.

http://www.shunyata.com/Content/technical-PowerDist.html

Too technical for me to digest...I'll leave this to you

kamfei

Many thanks my friend. Greek to me too, bu looks go, no? So i should start saving up... these beasts do not come cheap. Perhaps get a used one...see how my budget 2012 final quarter goes....

mofaz wrote:Surge protector only works when it is plugged in ..if you still connect the TV or Receiver to outdoor antenna the equipment will be fried although unplug from main socket..

True for TV... I wonder if the ethernet cable connected to streamer is a risk as well or not.

kamfei0512 wrote:

elhefe wrote:Hi kamfei,

I just use belkin pf50 with no other conditioner etc.

To be frank, at any other time, my set up is on all the time. But with the current thunderstorm, I plug off everything when not in use. I actually consider myself lucky first time around. 2nd time maybe even the pf50 may not be able to protect my set up.

Thanks elhefe!

I am wondering how surge protector affects SQ.
Any personal review when your audio equipments is used with and without the belkin pf50?

Some said surge protectors degrade the SQ.
Some said you are better off with an UPS.
All we know is...he is called : audition!

kamfei

Personally, using a standard Belkin 6,8 or 10 gangway surge protectors have some detrimental effect on SQ...but with the pF50, I must say its negligible. UPS to me does what it stands for...Uninterrupted Power Supply... how it improves SQ...I am not sure.

I've been using a custom 5KVA AVR transformer for my rig. For me, thats the best solution against spikes and lightning. Lightning can't strike through the transformer and damage your equipment. Anyhow, the circuit breaker is switched off whenever its not in use.
UPS?..leave that in the computing arena. Its essential for computers which cannot have downtime and data loss.

What about power surge from the mains it self, a couple of years ago a power surge knocked out electrical appliances at my parents house, TNB of course compensated for the ceiling fans etc but dont think they will pay for damaged hi-fi equipments..

mofaz wrote:What about power surge from the mains it self, a couple of years ago a power surge knocked out electrical appliances at my parents house, TNB of course compensated for the ceiling fans etc but dont think they will pay for damaged hi-fi equipments..

I think the onus is on you to take up General Insurance on damage and theft. I reckon its time consuming, hassle and proof of their cause to make claims from TNB.

Hi el...

Definitely not a myth.....but saves equipment lives

Have an AVR, lightning isolator for my AV / HiFi setup.

Personally will unplug from wall socket after use and turn off mains if the lightning gets worst.

Cheers

elhefe wrote:

mofaz wrote:Surge protector only works when it is plugged in ..if you still connect the TV or Receiver to outdoor antenna the equipment will be fried although unplug from main socket..

True for TV... I wonder if the ethernet cable connected to streamer is a risk as well or not.

When lightning strikes, it can generates EMP wave that burst through any conductive materials. Any conductors that can "link" from the power line/telephone line is "guilty" of transmitting these harmful and destructive waves and that includes wet surface of what's not conductive during dry time. We have came accross wireless GSM module that has robust surge protection but one stormy night it was rendered malfunctioned requiring CPU board replacement and we were puzzled how can the surge went through 2 layers of protection and get to the CPU board with the surge protectors intact. The CPU board status lights are all green and blinking except the CPU isnt doing the "right" thing communication outbound/inbound and finally we realized the antenna base was screwed onto a metal surface that was also where the telephone line connection nearby and it was soaky wet during that night hence the "electric wave" travel through telephone line, leak through the termination protective sleeve, travel on the wet surface and enter the GSM board and killed the poor CPU. We repeated the scenario and confirmed with "enough" current, we could detect harmful surging current at the end terminal of the antenna. So, in short, unplug everything that connects to the outside or your house network line when you're not at home for more than 24 hours. Alternatively, use quality surge protectors such as the Belkin mentioned. Dont skim on the budget for the mainboard circuit breakers. Those poor quality ones simply not working to act fast enough to kill any rising current before it reaches your "precious". Test your mainboard ELCB periodically, says every 3 months and have your electrician check your EARTH pole from time to time to ensure it's still having the proper "connectivity" to dump any power leakage. Without the EARTH pole working well, any surge protectors will not work very well

WillSmith,

Thanks for a detailed insight on this.

1. For my streamer, problem solved as the PF50 have a IN/OUT ethernet port.

2. Now for ASTRO B.yond. Since the connection for my set up is ASTRO decoder -> Yamaha Receiver -> TV (astro coax -> hdmi -> hdmi), how would you suggest the 'protected' connection should be via my Belkin? Will this work:

ASTRO Satellite -> decoder -> Yamaha -> TV to be coax cable -> Belkin -> coax cable ->Astro decoder and simimlar HDMI connection for the rest?

elhefe wrote:WillSmith,
ASTRO Satellite -> decoder -> Yamaha -> TV to be coax cable -> Belkin -> coax cable ->Astro decoder and simimlar HDMI connection for the rest?

For Astro, the main risk is the white sattelite cable connected to the LNB at the dish point. You need some sort of surge protection on it. Surge can go through this cable to the decoder and then onward from the decoder to other equipment daisy chain with it.

I am using a simple Monster Surge protection as cannot find other type that have sattelite cable protection. Belkin seem dont have it. The rest of the equipment are connected to another Surge Protection that have almost everything (phone, LAN, etc) except this sattelite cable thingy.

elhefe wrote:WillSmith,

Thanks for a detailed insight on this.

1. For my streamer, problem solved as the PF50 have a IN/OUT ethernet port.

2. Now for ASTRO B.yond. Since the connection for my set up is ASTRO decoder -> Yamaha Receiver -> TV (astro coax -> hdmi -> hdmi), how would you suggest the 'protected' connection should be via my Belkin? Will this work:

ASTRO Satellite -> decoder -> Yamaha -> TV to be coax cable -> Belkin -> coax cable ->Astro decoder and simimlar HDMI connection for the rest?

For Astro, since that subscribers are paying through their nose for the services, it might be a good idea to get Astro to change the units FOC?

Else grounding the coaxial cold leg is a good idea.

Hi guys, quick question again about the Shunyata Hydra.... does it act as a voltage stabiliser as well? Or does it just clean up the incoming power without altering the voltage? I ask as i have now a shunyata hydra 6 and i also have an isolation trans, about 2Kva(conservatively, i think. it could be more, can't remember..) that allows me to select 220, 230 or 240Volts out. Not sure the best way to utilize these 2 items. Would it be overkill to use the isolation trans in series with the shynyata, ie power goes thro the transformer, then out in to the shunyata and that feeds the components? Or am i just becoming neurotic and paranoid and cranky and old and neurotic... hmm, i said that already didn't i. Please share you experience before i go mad. .... some say that it's too late, i've crossed the line and there is no going back. So then better just jump right in with both feet, eh?

Do tell. Please.
Bal

bal wrote:Hi guys, quick question again about the Shunyata Hydra.... does it act as a voltage stabiliser as well? Or does it just clean up the incoming power without altering the voltage? I ask as i have now a shunyata hydra 6 and i also have an isolation trans, about 2Kva(conservatively, i think. it could be more, can't remember..) that allows me to select 220, 230 or 240Volts out. Not sure the best way to utilize these 2 items. Would it be overkill to use the isolation trans in series with the shynyata, ie power goes thro the transformer, then out in to the shunyata and that feeds the components? Or am i just becoming neurotic and paranoid and cranky and old and neurotic... hmm, i said that already didn't i. Please share you experience before i go mad. .... some say that it's too late, i've crossed the line and there is no going back. So then better just jump right in with both feet, eh?

Do tell. Please.
Bal

Shunyata conditioners are to date belongs to "passive" conditioners in the sense that it applies filtering devices such as capacitors, MOVs and claimed "proprietary" chip based arrays to take out the distortions and interference.

In your particular case, you should first isolate your power supplies using the transformer based conditioner and then the hydra drawing power from the transformer. All sources should draw power from the Hydra while all big power amps etc should draw from the isolation transformer for better current delivery. For the voltage switch itself, you should test the voltage from your wall at the given time and test the voltage output from your isolation transformer at the same given time to determine if your isolation transformer is acting as step down/up transformer as well.

Depending on the area you lived in and your equipment, you might not need the voltage stabilizer as bad as some other areas. As well, remember any filtering/isolating/conditioning device, be it active or passive introduced in series to your power line will diminish the current as well as voltage. Some preferred 230v for the more "mellow" sound. Try it for your own preference.

Many many thanks Will Smith, for that valuable information. Thanks so much for sharing. I will do this and see the results.



bal

As for 230V or 240VAC variance with incoming supply, I could agree that some tube or amplifiers that don't implement DC regulation may affect the sonics to some degree. But for others like CDP, DAC or digital gear, 230 or 240V don't make any technical difference. These machines operate with internal high DC regulation and stabilizing circuitry moreover not affected in the least bit by incoming voltage variance. Vintage tube circuitry don't have any regulation circuitry at all.

This afternoon i had some time, and went back home to listen to music. I am lucky in the sense that home and work are walking distance. So my lunch break is at home and it is a good time to listen to music as no one else is around at that time. Problem is at this time, the power sucks so badly, and listening does not give me the same joy as it does as listening at 11.30pm onwards. That was the main reason i opted out for the Shunyata Hydra. And i must say it does a really good job. Listening at 1pm is now as good as listening at midnight. Also this helps me as i am not a night person and really need my sleep. So daytime listening has become a joy.

I tried many different combinations today. I put different components on the Hydra and different components on the Isolation trans. I tried the cd player on the transformer, then the DAC on the transformer, then the pre amp on the transformer, and the best sound i got is everything on the Hydra without the transformer in the chain at all. Perhaps i don't have much voltage change in the mains in my area... the multimeter showed 240V plus minus 0.5V over the 5 mins that i had it hooked up, so i suppose this is minor fluctuation.
The hydra connected up to the isolation transformer reduced the bass a lot. So perhaps the transformer is limiting current.

My power amp seems to love the hydra, strangely the bass is far better when plugged into the hydra than when plugged in directly into the wall dedicated 35A socket. And the overall sense of coherence is better this way as well.

All in all, i really am fond of the changes i hear thro the hydra 6. Glad i got it. Still got half the amount to pay for it though...sigh. money out, money out, money out.

Bal

cmboy wrote:As for 230V or 240VAC variance with incoming supply, I could agree that some tube or amplifiers that don't implement DC regulation may affect the sonics to some degree. But for others like CDP, DAC or digital gear, 230 or 240V don't make any technical difference. These machines operate with internal high DC regulation and stabilizing circuitry moreover not affected in the least bit by incoming voltage variance. Vintage tube circuitry don't have any regulation circuitry at all.

That makes any premium voltage regulators and regenerators sound like "redundant" gear

bal wrote:This afternoon i had some time, and went back home to listen to music. I am lucky in the sense that home and work are walking distance. So my lunch break is at home and it is a good time to listen to music as no one else is around at that time. Problem is at this time, the power sucks so badly, and listening does not give me the same joy as it does as listening at 11.30pm onwards. That was the main reason i opted out for the Shunyata Hydra. And i must say it does a really good job. Listening at 1pm is now as good as listening at midnight. Also this helps me as i am not a night person and really need my sleep. So daytime listening has become a joy.

I tried many different combinations today. I put different components on the Hydra and different components on the Isolation trans. I tried the cd player on the transformer, then the DAC on the transformer, then the pre amp on the transformer, and the best sound i got is everything on the Hydra without the transformer in the chain at all. Perhaps i don't have much voltage change in the mains in my area... the multimeter showed 240V plus minus 0.5V over the 5 mins that i had it hooked up, so i suppose this is minor fluctuation.
The hydra connected up to the isolation transformer reduced the bass a lot. So perhaps the transformer is limiting current.

My power amp seems to love the hydra, strangely the bass is far better when plugged into the hydra than when plugged in directly into the wall dedicated 35A socket. And the overall sense of coherence is better this way as well.

All in all, i really am fond of the changes i hear thro the hydra 6. Glad i got it. Still got half the amount to pay for it though...sigh. money out, money out, money out.

Bal

My experience with isolation transformer seems to share the same impression like yours. But some others like the extra "quietness" brought by the isolation transformer.

best rule of thumb, plug out all when not in use.