DAC Opinions

arremie wrote:How do you define whether a source is fast or not?

maybe someone has some magical speedometer to measure the "speed" of the source.

Dixchen, u may try the mk plug with fuse, especially with your poweramp. Have u ever notice that people go for mk 15A or even 16A for their poweramp? If u want a very fast sound with full body, u might need 13a with fuse or 15a plug to do the job.

Arremie,

If your cd sound thin n no body, this may due to it's too fast. U may try to shift the cd power plug further away from the inlet. If still not working u may take away the spike under your cdp if any.

Ahh ! So someone DOES have a magical speedometer for the said topic !!

aah so that is what the slow filter on my NAD cdp is for. I noticed it sounded thinner with normal filter but got a bit ommph with slow filter haha.

geeezz...

Well arremie, Hifi is so fun n endless . Keep enjoying.

Ops mugenfoo/, have u enter the wrong treats? I tough u r very busy with your fan club? Hey, I'm still using a RM4/m wire wrapping wire for interconnect. It's so fun. Any comment?

noodle88 wrote:Well arremie, Hifi is so fun n endless . Keep enjoying.

Ops mugenfoo/, have u enter the wrong treats? I tough u r very busy with your fan club? Hey, I'm still using a RM4/m wire wrapping wire for interconnect. It's so fun. Any comment?

Sure .... as long as u many many fun and happy. Everybody happy also.

Just Remember to use some bubble gum or Blu-Tack to hold those wrapping wire together ya ... if not, it might short-out and blow your precious SET amp ... then you might have to go back to the lousy sounding CJ Premier11 amp instead... Nobody want that to happen right ?

The www wire as interconnect r superb but no thanks for your blu-tack. Even Alen wright is using it. How can it be?? Mugen? Doesn't mean that branded n expensive staff r gud. Most of the guru like Alen dont need to pay the high price for that. To get the same effect or even better they can just tweak their design.
U may no know this bcos u only use equipment ready made that u may want or know how to mod it. Sad of u.....

It's gud for the Hifi industry also , without u they have to close down....
Keep spending pls.....

talk so much ... how much money have u "donated" to VPI for your turntable ? Aiyoyo, why don't you go use some home-made turntable .. Malaysia plenty of wood for u to DIY also mah. And go Jln Pasar to buy the TT motor lah.

Ortofon cartridge lagi ah ? Try and DIY your own lah .

Why don't you build you own phono stage as well instead of buying from the shop.

Show some real DIY power lah , make your own serious stuff... instead of just playing with scissors, cutting wires here and there (Like that ad: Sudah Potong??) , changing fuses here and there & playing with 3-pin plugs. You the king of DIY mah .... c'mon, show some big DIY project lah... Or u still have to derma money to VPI, Triplanar and Ortofon lagi ....

Congratulations, u also helped the hifi industry the same exact way also!!
Or are you too ashamed to admit it now ??

Come, show your DIY tonearm that sounds super better than the Triplanar lah.

U can start to eat back your own words or can just add this to the list of all your dumbest advice to date.

tycham wrote:

zeebee wrote:Finger,


I'm running a comparo at the moment with a Benchmark DAC1 and the Azur 840C with a Simaudio Equinox as transport.

How does these two compare? How do you find the sound quality of the 840C?

Would appreciate your feedback.

Regards

tycham,

Bro, sorry a somewhat belated reply... run the comparo between Promitheus Tube DAC and Cambridge Azur 840C over the week/weekend, as in my other thread, both XLRs and each running 2 same CD/SACDs (hybrid) (somehow, I ended up with 2 of each of them (Sting/Chet Baker/Warren Bernhardt-SACD hybrids/DSD) ..

Both Chet Baker (Fantasy Reissue) and Warren Baker (DMP Label/artist) songs are mainly standard issue old school/jazz/swing stuff with Sting's Sacred Love is a Pop/Rock album with alot of remixing and synthesisers.

Boths PA DAC and 840C are excellent for the jazz stuff, detailed/airy but for system, somewhat limited to the gently rolled-off top and bottom-end (relatively) by the Living Voice Avatar speakers.

IMHO, the 840C is a very good all round performer but on a number of tracks esp. 'Stolen Car' from Sacred Love, there is a sound which I thought deliberate 'electronica' artifacts (like a distorted sound) for this heavily synths-ed album, but totally rounded/clear/gone when heard through the PT DAC.

For my own personal favourite track, I simply hear "Human Nature' by Michael Jackson.. boths machines equally at task IMO. But I think this is really nit-picking and based on my limited experience to 'review'..:

my 2sens.

Zeebee,

My posts r all back with research n technical fact. It's not nonsense....

arremie wrote:How do you define whether a source is fast or not?

Cepat rosak?

@zeebee

Thank you for your feedback. Really appreciate that.

I have been using Promitheus Audio DAC (the original SS with output transformers) for the past couple of years until it failed recently. Turned to vinyl source for awhile. Now, with the newly made Monica3 DAC from Yeo of DIYParadise, I have been enjoying CDs more than ever. For those not familiar with it(Audiophile of the Star reviewed it before), Monica3 dac costs less than RM500 if you do DIY (a lot of cost goes into the casing and power supply) and around 1.5K fully assembled & tested.

noodle88 wrote:Zeebee,

My posts r all back with research n technical fact. It's not nonsense....

Mr Noodles88,

Don't feel slighted, I know I quoted you elsewhere here as an example, but somehow even as a layman, I need to know how or why 'old mk plug' is better than new ones or the 13A Bussman fuse is better than the 15A etc. I also 'practise' this weird art of tweaking, changed the fuses (Furutech la, Hi-fi tuning Silverstar), plug the power chord of the amplifier nearer to the source. I even bought the thick gauge orange-red cable from ACE hardware way before it snaked into this forum. Just thought it was really thick, 'Made in USA' sommo, and VERY, VERY CHEAP..


Your comment are not nonesense but do become 'nonesense' when you just sort of left it 'hanging', like why is the old mk plug is better than new ones (see above, you get what I mean) etc, etc. It also reminds me of the movie "Night at the Museum" where Ben Stiller's English boss would just say something and left it there ''' hanging''' which really,really, really irks you (if u don't get it, pls watch the movie, it may help ).

So if your posts are backed by research n technical facts, by all means present it. I for one am very interested why another inch shorter for a power cord will make the equipment sounds better etc. Those not interested may not read, I do coz I really don't why? If it does work, hell, I don't mind doing it.

Hopes this clears the air a bit

Cheers,

zeebee

Hi Mr.zeebee,

The lenght of your powercord may make sound changes. A 1.5m powercord should have a faster sound compare to a same 2.0m ones. Just plug your cdp power plug nearer of further from the power Inlet will make sound changes. Just few inchs lenght of cable enought to fell the different. If your system don't show any different, then your system is not responsive enough to show the different.

In my system, even I move my poweramp 1" forward or backward enough to show the different??? No i'm not mad.... It's a fact...

Happy tuning...,

For the record, I'm not saying or inferring that you are mad.. perhaps my system is not up to standard.. ..

Fear not, I shall henceforth forward your suggestion to Signore Giovanni Borinato designer from Pathos, Caelin Gabriel from Shunyata Research and Frank Vai from Signal Cables (he's a very helpful and nice guy actually) of your factual and scientific finding and seeketh their second, third or fourth opinion. Must admit though that the thought of pushing around the 60lb Pathos an inch or two forward or backward or sideways gonna be a real bummer, especially with the Vibrapod suckers stuck at each corner of the footer..

Happy tweaking to you too...

noodle88 wrote:Hi Mr.zeebee,

The lenght of your powercord may make sound changes. A 1.5m powercord should have a faster sound compare to a same 2.0m ones.

On a mathematical basis, and assuming that the speed of the powercord as specified by the manufacturer is 0.87c(the speed of light) would translate in a time difference of 1+ nanosec. Can you explain in term of relativity, ie. with respect to the travel speed of light sorry it should be sound, the difference in the perception of the sound produce?

No problem zeebee, just go ahead n see what your sifu tell u. I think your system noise floor is not low enough to hear the different. Have u ever heard hongki tune their speaker by just stroke their speaker.

Tycham,

Just shift your cd powercord nearer or further from the inlet first b4 make any command..., or even poweramp or preamp also should make different.

What can I say..

I suppose I do listen to the music rather than noise floor.. wonder you can boogie with that (I hope boogie is still the 'in' thing) .. and stroking... we may be delving into XXX-rated territory here

ok noodle88, I usually email Frank Vai (or John Pharos from cableco) for some freebie advice on cables but I'd give this one a skip for the time being...

Cheers,

zeebee

noodle88 wrote:No problem zeebee, just go ahead n see what your sifu tell u. I think your system noise floor is not low enough to hear the different. Have u ever heard hongki tune their speaker by just stroke their speaker.

Tycham,

Just shift your cd powercord nearer or further from the inlet first b4 make any command..., or even poweramp or preamp also should make different.

Don't have CD player. My cMP^2 player is batteries powered. I am still curious about your speed calculation.

noodle88 wrote:Zeebee,

My posts r all back with research n technical fact. It's not nonsense....

Ok noodle, this time not to argue with you for a change.... But if u can explain further the list below of what u have commented-on last time and substantiate it with research n technical facts , then u are truly totally respectable with regards to playing hifi.

Who knows ... might just clear the air on alot of misunderstanding in the first place !


Here is the list: Please kindly provide the research and also technical fact to support your advice, (if possible?) :

1.

noodle88 wrote:
only a good hi sensitive speaker match with a single ended amp can produce something miricle that u all cannot experance in hi power n hi distortion system

2.

noodle88 wrote:
However, I disagree with our friend that 8w ( should be a 300b amp )
can drive a pair of klipsch Conner horn to it's max. I would say our
friend use a wrong amp. He should have use a hi quality 3.5w 2a3 amp to
drive the Conner horn, then only the bass will go much lower n deeper.
The piano note also can be very accurate like no other system.

3.

noodle88 wrote:
Do u all read up any books on speaker building before u all make command?
I think both of u don't know Chinese or Japanese . Have yet look at the
Hifi biggest markets, japan, hong kong n china. Go to the net a do a research, see what do those hi end Hifi kaki play with. Ask them, do
they know what tannoy westminster is all about. Do u know that, most
15" hi efficency speaker in the world have been bought over by them. R
they nuts???

4. Something about tuning power-cords:

noodle88 wrote:
For cable, only use the one that cost me rm4.50 per ft. Best value for many. For who interest pm me.

noodle88 wrote:
do u know that u can tune the speed of your by using the same powercord?!?!

5.

noodle88 wrote:Hey, to all who new to Hifi, using tt for source? U r finding troble....
U do need to think twice b4 u go into tt. Not to say tt is not good, but it just not the right time to go in.

Going into tt , u need a lot of acc. Can easily cost u 10k n that 10k give u
nothing much......

Go for cd until u reach a certain level then only go for tt. If your cd don't sound right how can your tt sound right????

6.

noodle88 wrote:
What plug r u using for the ace powercord? Uk? Us?
If u use mk 13a power plug, u may try out various fuse ie, mk made in
uk, bussmann made in uk, mk normal, bussmann normal, unlead fuse, 10A ,
5A, 8A fuse. All of them have diffent sound, see which suits your system
most.

Awaiting all the above to be backed up with research (ok, we all know u sure have done alot of home tests and try-n-listen sessions), and also the technical fact. Actually, more interested in the technical facts from u.

This time I'm not picking any argument with you ok ? Just really really want to hear your true research and technical facts for all the above.

Spoiler:

zb,
You're getting to be almost as sarcastic as me already...

mugenfoo wrote:[spoiler]
zb,
You're getting to be almost as sarcastic as me already...

Bro,

Almost there

It's not that I'm trying to put the man down or do an online bashing, he may be on to something and his expression/grasp of the English language is somewhat limited. But when he mentioned that's it is based on 'scientific facts and technical finding' or something like that, then by all means explain the facts/findings bla, bla bla technically or scientifically, not by shifting, cutting (sudah potong?) and now tuning speakers by 'stroking' (now, that's certifiable) ... and then capping it of with 'If your system don't show any different, then your system is not responsive enough to show the different.... you get what I mean

By the way I got a good laugh on '..your system not responsive enough...' bit, fair enough at least I went to bed smilling last night and a good night (no stroking involved) sleep..

Cheers,

zb

Mugenfoo,

For tube amp, single ended had the lowest power but least distortion . Paralled single ended has higher distrotion but higher power than single ended. As this related using the same tube type, for example a 300b set amp may have 8w, parelled set may have 16w(2 tube being used). For sure the parelled set amp have higher distrotion. (assume both also design properly).

Like push pull amp, triode mode have lower power than ultra linear, as ultra linear mode has lower power than pentrode mode . But triode has lower distrotion than ultra linear, n pentrode has the most distrotion among the three.

So, am I clear your myth no.1?

Sorry for my poor English command.

noodle88 wrote:Mugenfoo,

For tube amp, single ended had the lowest power but least distortion . Paralled single ended has higher distrotion but higher power than single ended. As this related using the same tube type, for example a 300b set amp may have 8w, parelled set may have 16w(2 tube being used). For sure the parelled set amp have higher distrotion. (assume both also design properly).

Like push pull amp, triode mode have lower power than ultra linear, as ultra linear mode has lower power than pentrode mode . But triode has lower distrotion than ultra linear, n pentrode has the most distrotion among the three.

So, am I clear your myth no.1?
Sorry for my poor English command.

Not really ... when u say distortion, how do u define "distortion". By what u hear from the sound ? or u measure it with some kind of lab instrument, or how ?

And what do u mean by "designed-properly" ? What is the standard to say if the tube-amp is designed properly or not ? Is it by some circuit topolgy, the schematics of the circuit design, the placement of the components .... or how ?

Sorry to say, but from your reply so far, still could not find any technical facts at all. Maybe u can clarify further on these questions ?


For example, u can say .. this brand.X car is very fast ! .. then someone ask u back , how fast ?? if u reply like .. this car can reach 0 to 100km/h in 5 seconds, compared to say a Proton Perdana that will need maybe 11 seconds ...Ok, then u can say that this brand.X car is fast! Got factual numbers to back it up. Get the idea ?


(we can discuss on items 2, 3, 4..... later on...)

Ok, just put it this way. The same push pull amp if u Wire it in triode mode has less distrotion compare to wire it in UL mode. N wire it to pentrode mode has the highest distrotion. N the power output will be triode < UL < pentrode.

noodle88 wrote:Ok, just put it this way. The same push pull amp if u Wire it in triode mode has less distrotion compare to wire it in UL mode. N wire it to pentrode mode has the highest distrotion. N the power output will be triode < UL < pentrode.

OK ... where's the technical proof to back this up ?

And how do you measure or hear the distortion ?

Since a power cord is composed of a hot and neutral wire that the component sits between, a change in the length of the cord will increase the size of the "buffer" around the component.

In the specific case of Shunyata Research -- we use patented noise-isolating geometries, shielding and a patented compound that absorbs EMI in some power cord models. Increasing the length of the cable, increases the noise isolation, or coupling effect to the ZrCa-2000 compounds, therefore increasing the performance of the cable.

In general, Shunyata Research does not recommend a power cord that is shorter than 3 feet or 1 meter in length for performance ease of use and, or resale reasons.

I saw this in Shunyata website. So Length of Power cord will affect Sound Quality.

Thanks kkthen.

Mugenfoo u r a bit too much, am I having exam???

noodle88 wrote:Thanks kkthen.

Mugenfoo u r a bit too much, am I having exam???

Apa exam pulak?? .... u also haven't answer the simple question.

Just asking u nicely to show the technical facts only ...... Can or not ?

kkthen wrote:Since a power cord is composed of a hot and neutral wire that the component sits between, a change in the length of the cord will increase the size of the "buffer" around the component.

In the specific case of Shunyata Research -- we use patented noise-isolating geometries, shielding and a patented compound that absorbs EMI in some power cord models. Increasing the length of the cable, increases the noise isolation, or coupling effect to the ZrCa-2000 compounds, therefore increasing the performance of the cable.

In general, Shunyata Research does not recommend a power cord that is shorter than 3 feet or 1 meter in length for performance ease of use and, or resale reasons.

I saw this in Shunyata website. So Length of Power cord will affect Sound Quality.

. That's why I have a couple of em and plugged to the Hydra 4.. See cut and paste also can answer

Hi all,

I often wonder if the Single Ended Triode guys with their super sensitive horn speakers are a bit crazy. But i wanted to catch a glimpse of their world.

If you've read about Dr Gizmo, sorry for repeating. Otherwise, there are many fascinating articles. You need not agree with them, but it expands your horizon.

Have a look at this:
Julius Futterman

In the end, we can agree to disagree, but I definitely respect them and their beliefs. Hifi is for us to access music, and music is art. Its subjective and personal and no technical measurements can ever explain art and its appreciation, be it a painting or Miles Davies, in my humble opinion.

Still, it doesn't answer my question.

One is lengthen and the other is shorten for increase performance. Does it not create more confusion?

Tycham,

That I ask them to buy 6ft(1.8m), should sound a bit slow in most system. Let them cut n know the different. So as to suit their system...

noodle88 wrote:Tycham,

That I ask them to buy 6ft(1.8m), should sound a bit slow in most system. Let them cut n know the different. So as to suit their system...

Got any research or technical fact to prove this or not ... ?

Put lah, some link to another website, or scan a page of some article from english, chinese, japanese, Russian or Kazahki hifi magazine and show any kind of proof. Can ah ?

mugenfoo wrote:

noodle88 wrote:Ok, just put it this way. The same push pull amp if u Wire it in triode mode has less distrotion compare to wire it in UL mode. N wire it to pentrode mode has the highest distrotion. N the power output will be triode < UL < pentrode.

OK ... where's the technical proof to back this up ?

And how do you measure or hear the distortion ?

He's right Mugen spare him the explanation la, to fully explain this phenomenon in theory in brief, one would have to draw the electron tube diagram to show, I can't paste one here and to spare everyone a long lecture of Tube 101, here goes :

Most commercially available push pull tube amps today run on the modern pentode ( 6550's EL 34's), a much later derivative of the purest and most basic tube design which is the triode ( simple 3 plated tube with basic anode, screen grid and the cathode) but there was also another earlier derivative which was the Kinkless Tetrode before the pentode design arrived ( KT 66's,88's etc )

Pentodes ( beam power tubes) are a 5 plate variant of the electron tube developed in the late 60's by RCA in order to produce tubes that are more powerful and with higher gain as well. The extra 2 plates are actually additional grids one below the anode and cathode meant to increase additional electron exchange area ( one of them is actually also connected to the cathode as well) , but unfortunately with all designs today, we gain something and lose something at the same time. The increased intensity of the electron exchange although helps a many fold increase in gain and power, also results in more distortions on the new found load line as well not to mention a severe decrease in transparency! ( too many plates in the electron path)

THe distortion does not necessarily mean severly unbearable sonics like what we hear if a solid state equipment distorts...tube distortions are a lot more graceful and a lot more ' bearable ' to listen to..

So when we say a connection of any push pull amp in ' triode ' mode, we actually REDUCE the efficiency of the pentode tube design to BYPASS the use of the additional 2 plates to create a VIRTUAL triode thus power, distortion ( FROM LOWER PLATE RESISTANCE) is severely decreased but transparency increased.

Shall not go on and on further as it gets pretty complex from here onwards but yea so to all who wanted the ' technical ' explanation , this is a small part of it but enough to clearly clarify Noodle88's claims earlier...

This is to clarify the ?? to un hang people that are left hanging by the earlier ' why there is less distortion lor...

Oh how do we measure it and hear it? We certainly can't measure and hear it too much by our ears but we can certainly appreciate the ' DIFFERENCE ' in clarity, power and AUDIBLE clipping point of the amp between both modes.

But given the right measuring equipments we can certainly do curve plots to actually see how much reduction there is in open/close loop gain, distortion, feedback and etc etc but who cares bout figures la, the sound is what we care about...

Wanna listen to tubes and appreciate them more, we just gotta do more reading la...

Helping more people to understand a little bit more here...

Well bravo & good explanation there dixchen.... but was hoping for this to have come from the grandmaster of tube himself to substantiate the earlier "hanging" statements.

Just as an illustration for all to see: This would be an example of a statement that is BACKED by Technical fact ( as opposed to motherhood statements or anecdotes).

OK, call this a "lifeline" thrown to noodle88 by good ol' dix.

So lets move on to item 2: ... Whats best for a corner loaded horn speaker, 8Watter 300B or 3.5Watter 2A3 tube amp ?
Dix, this might still fall in your realm of expertise , so please do share as well (and cover for Noody one more, for the road) ....

I shall say no more..hahahahaha....

frankly i don't think noodle88 can come up with research or technical fact or scientific papers to prove his points.

to be fair to him, he must have heard some difference when he used a longer or shorter power cord or when he moved his amp an inch away or when he plugged his cd player closer to the mains, etc.

the question is whether anyone else can hear the differences that he hears.

as for his other claims:

noodle88 wrote:

only a good hi sensitive speaker match with a single ended amp can produce something miricle that u all cannot experance in hi power n hi distortion system

single-ended triodes and well-made horns can sound magical, but in my experience set amps are rolled off in the treble and bass. the mids are magical though, especially for female voices.

hi power does not equate to hi distortion systems. today's high powered solid-state amps have extremely low distortion levels.

i have heard magical music with high-powered solid-state amps and normal speakers using cone drivers and dome tweeters. so one cannot dismiss high-powered systems as lacking magic or 'miracle'..

it's all about personal preferences and system matching and the type of music you listen to.

set amps and horns don't do rock, rap or classical music very well.

noodle88 wrote:

For cable, only use the one that cost me rm4.50 per ft. Best value for many.

Fair enough, cheap power cables can sometimes work well. i have DIYed a power cord using cheap wires but expensive Furutech plugs and it works well.

noodle88 wrote:

do u know that u can tune the speed of your by using the same powercord?!?!

i doubt if noodle88 can support this with scientific facts.

noodle88 wrote:
Hey, to all who new to Hifi, using tt for source? U r finding troble....
U do need to think twice b4 u go into tt. Not to say tt is not good, but it just not the right time to go in.

Going into tt , u need a lot of acc. Can easily cost u 10k n that 10k give u
nothing much......

Go for cd until u reach a certain level then only go for tt. If your cd don't sound right how can your tt sound right????

noodle88, r u aware that there has been a vinyl revival over the past few years? it is not those new to hi fi who are going back to turntables - it's the old fellows who are tired of cd's digital sound.

and r u aware that the cd is on its way out? downloads are in and that's where those new to hi fi are heading to with their iPods and MP3 players.

and u r telling these iPod fellas to go back to cd and work towards getting perfect sound from the cd player by shortening or lengthening the power cord, moving the cd player or amp an inch or two and stroking the speaker?

I think your system noise floor is not low enough to hear the different.

that is what the sifu will always say when others retort that they hear no difference when they move their amp an inch left/right/north/south/etc.
or when they cut their power cable to 1.5m from 1.8m.

Have u ever heard hongki tune their speaker by just stroke their speaker.

sometimes when i listen to music late at night, i prefer to stroke other things.

I think off topic arguments have dominated this thread and its becoming the arena for a few hifi "experts", shouldn't we stick to Wingman's question on DAC suggestions?

CLH wrote:I think off topic arguments have dominated this thread and its becoming the arena for a few hifi "experts", shouldn't we stick to Wingman's question on DAC suggestions?

Any takers out there to A/B a Benchmark DAC1 vs Promintheus Tube DAC (S/N:00002... I made this up , the serial number bit)? I have both, to be honest, the DAC1 is reaallly idling. Since my system is not up to speed , I'm quite open to second opinions/suggestions/ volunteers/ sifus/ experts ...

Cheers,

zb

Exceptions: can't lend u the silver speaker cables/XLR as they are loaners from Promitheus.

Hi CLH....

Yaloh.....hijacked.

Zeebee.....

What is the cost of the locally made DAC's ?

As for me was looking at the Xindax DAC 5, unfortunately Asia Sound do not carry this gear as well ?

Images of the exterior and interior.

[/img]


cheers

hmm Xindak got tube inside....interesting

wingman wrote:Hi CLH....

Yaloh.....hijacked.

Zeebee.....

What is the cost of the locally made DAC's ?
cheers

Sorry bro, I understand the price is not 'official' yet (so I have to keep mum on that) but let's just say it's much less than the Benchmark's and comparable, pricewise to the PRC's (similar) product. Until today I'm still unable/struggling to post the pictures but you can get a similar glimpse at Promitheus's webpage for the SS DAC except the power supply is a separate unit with individual silver pulse transformers for each channel and of course the PSU.

But then again, for those who consider 'heavy-industry' looks for their products may have to look elsewhere

BTW, I don't have shares or stock option in the company , just doing a bit of promo for IMHO very good products from a local guy..

Cheers,

zb

yeap...

arremie...that "tube" gets me wondering on the sonics as well and also there are two outputs one from the Tube section and the other from the solid state section.

Gets me wondering even moreeeee on the sonics.....

Have auditioned TEAC DAC's which have tubes built in as well and the sonics are a pure joy...... ( to my eardrums ). Cost wise its an ARM and a LEG.

cheers

Yeah just like some tube cdp got 2 outputs each for SS or tube. How much is the Xindak by the way. What tube is that?

ZeeBee....

Cheers and no worries.

Will check out the WEBSite.

The sad truth is the locally produce units are sold by "word of mouth" and within a specifc circle only. ( my views and experience )

cheers

Arremie.....

The last i checked it should be less then GBP$500.00 The tube is a (E88CC) or (6922) which is stated on the specification sheet.

cheers

errr........xindak dac 5 is about usd500+ including dhl to your doorstep from cattylink.com, do check it out