Need help deciding on tube amp

I've narrowed down my choices of tube amps as below. I need some pro and
cons from the pros since I have very little knowledge about this apart
from what I read from the net.

1) Bewitch with EL34 tube
2) Bewitch with KT88/6550 tube
3) Music Angel with EL34B tube
4) Music Angel with KT88 tube

Power is not an issue since I will be using this with 97db Klipsch RF-62
and all those amps are more than capable of driving it.

Personally I have chosen Bewitch EL34. From what I've read, EL34 bring
out the best in mids where RF-62 is not very efficient at. So it could
be a good combination. Another is because of auto-bias feature of
Bewitch which I'm not sure whether Music Angel has this.

Anyway, any second opinion really appreciated before I pull the trigger.
Thanks

Hi arremie.....

Tube AMP's with Point to Point Wiring technique would sound better but the downside would be during maintenance / repair

It's similar to the "YTB" internal's all are point to point.

Have you auditioned any of the above Tube Amps or a Yaqin MS34D ?


cheers

If you pull the trigger, where would you buy the selected Tubey, WEB, local distributor ?

cheers

wingman, I don't know where I can audition these two locally. I'm hoping anyone who use either can share his/her thoughts.

Yaqin MS-34D also was one of my choices. Do you think it's a better
choice than Bewitch or Music Angel? At least it has a remote though
reportedly not that accurate.

I will be buying from the web unless I can find local distributor with
reasonable pricing.

I'd agree PtoP wired amps are somewhat sound better (depends on how its designed too). I'm wary that ill or compromised (due to cost) designed PCB tube amps can pose problems later on reliability issues.
I may have seen some quality tube amps from China that have point to point wiring, including those Mk2 of same model (meaning they changed from PCB to P2P later on for some logical reason)
Maybe I'm slanted towards vintage, which is why I prefer P2P wiring, nothing less. (My amps are anyhow).
I suppose this is what you preferred?

http://www.hi-end.on9mart.com/cart/Yaqin_MS-34D.html

There's a pic of internals underneath.

Hi Arremie,

check this out.... http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/miniwatt/miniwatt.html

I have one myself and am pairing it with 97db Loth amps and to my ears, they sing pretty well. Only 2.5 watts, I find that they have surprisingly good bass and also pretty fast, not to mention pretty good in the vocal department too...

No dealers here but can buy straight from Mini Watt for less than RM1k incl p & p, I think..

Arremie....

I know Audio Synthesis ( AmCorp Mall - level 2 )have some very good Tube Amps and the only shop that has quite a collection. If I am not mistaken saw a Bewitch there before but could be mistaken.

"Brad" has a Bewitch 6550 - refer to the "YTB" thread. Maybe Brad can enlighten us on how is the performance and where did he acquire the Amp ?

Check with Simon who is manning the shop and he is able to bring in your desired Amp as well but cross check the pricing from the WEB.

Happy Hunting.....

cheers

Arremie.....

You got PM.

Music Angel has one model which is P2P wired connectivity.

cheers

jcwlow, I've seen the Miniwatt before. Really a small wonder. They have
run out of silver or black. Miniwatt N3 is coming soon (3.5wpc/12AX7 + 2
x EL84). Anyway, I prefer an amp with at least 2 inputs. That's what
put me off Miniwatt in the first place.

wingman, I've been there before but the nice uncle insist on his choices
rather than mine and keep asking me for my budget. He keep pointing
this is nice and that is nice and only RMxxxx but didn't have the
courtesy to at least let me audition first. Well, 1st impression count
so I walked out. Maybe I'll check out with him again what's the price he
can offer me on Bewitch and Music Angel. If not so much difference I
prefer to take locally.

*Both Music Angel XDSE and Bewitch have a P2P connectivity.

jcwlow wrote:Hi Arremie,

check this out.... http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/miniwatt/miniwatt.html

I have one myself and am pairing it with 97db Loth amps and to my ears, they sing pretty well. Only 2.5 watts, I find that they have surprisingly good bass and also pretty fast, not to mention pretty good in the vocal department too...

No dealers here but can buy straight from Mini Watt for less than RM1k incl p & p, I think..

hi jcwlow

i have mine driving 93db, she did fair with track15 (manger test disc) eh
with my russian 6n1n to substitute stock 6p1, i shall expect better sound some more improvements if driver tubes are substituted with american/european equivalents huh!

which loth-x is rated 97db? amaze or aura? i may try to fire up amaze with this little babe soon



cheers
tlkoo

tlkoo wrote:

with my russian 6n1n to substitute stock 6p1, i shall expect better sound

cheers
tlkoo

Eh brother, that's 6 Pi 1 Pi; that n is actually a Pi symbol. In short it becomes 6P1P

thanks for correction brother



regards

Wikin wrote:

tlkoo wrote:

with my russian 6n1n to substitute stock 6p1, i shall expect better sound

cheers
tlkoo

Eh brother, that's 6 Pi 1 Pi; that n is actually a Pi symbol. In short it becomes 6P1P

tlkoo wrote:

jcwlow wrote:Hi Arremie,

check this out.... http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/miniwatt/miniwatt.html

I have one myself and am pairing it with 97db Loth amps and to my ears, they sing pretty well. Only 2.5 watts, I find that they have surprisingly good bass and also pretty fast, not to mention pretty good in the vocal department too...

No dealers here but can buy straight from Mini Watt for less than RM1k incl p & p, I think..

hi jcwlow

i have mine driving 93db, she did fair with track15 (manger test disc) eh
with my russian 6n1n to substitute stock 6p1, i shall expect better sound some more improvements if driver tubes are substituted with american/european equivalents huh!

which loth-x is rated 97db? amaze or aura? i may try to fire up amaze with this little babe soon



cheers
tlkoo

Hi Tlkoo,

Oh, what speakers are you driving them with? I was earlier using Dynaco A-25s (90 db) which produced quite a lot of whallop in a small room..Yeah I heard that if you change the stock tubes, should have even better sound..ALO Audio selling very tempting upgrade package with Russian Svetlana and Western Electric tubes but for almost the same price as the amp lerrr...

I'm using the Auras with them. I think the Amaze also has the same db rating cos they both use the same drivers... You should try cos I think they match really well! And let me know how the new tubes sound like on the Miniwatt...

Yeah, arramie, problem is that it has only 1 input..but I have thought of getting a passive preamp to pair it with....to me, it really is quite a marvel..but it runs really really hot

hi low

me using some german vintage speakers, not exactly 93db though reasonably gauged with 91db and 95db rated speakers within my setup ceteris paribus

one buddy is willing to lug over a pair of amaze to fire up on coming saturday, nonetheless i have deployed this little amp for tv shows rather than music though i should switch amp now and then huh


i have not found the least energy to roll tubes yet, maybe soon...


what amp have you compared this little one against?





cheers
tlkoo

hi koo,

well, not many really....I already have an Audio Analogue/OCM pre-power set up which I use to drive my other pair of speakers, the Ho's LS3/5As. While the Miniwatt/Aura has got a really broad soundstage, it doesnt go very low in terms of bass..It has got a one note and 'woody' sounding bass response and so wont do well with rock or pop..but IMO I think it can hold its own against quite high end stuff when playing jazz, classical, acoustic and vocals, and that considering the Aura/Miniwatt combo doesnt cost very much. IMO, its midrange is SOMETHIN else, man...AND its pretty fast, too!

I got the Aura second hand and think the price when new is just about 2k plus...I guess I could do a lot worse with a lot more money..heh heh

dear low

it does not go low? my setup does 33hz thereabout speakers that count, not amp as i reckon aura only goes down to 50hz thereabout





cheers
tlkoo

I just got word from the seller that Bewitch is more reliable in
production quality compared to Music Angel.

So I'm gonna get the Bewitch instead. Plus it has all the features that I
need (except remote control). Last thought....should I go with EL34 or
KT88. A bit more expensive for KT88 but if it's better than it should be
worth it.

Arremie,

Give kt88 a try, it may have better bass compare to el34. The sound of kt88 just more superior compare to EL34...

Arremie.....

Both the KT88 (Ultra Linear 60 x 2 / Triode 30W x 2) and the EL34 (20 watter) has its own sound signature, one being more punchie and the other more subtle.

My personal choice would be the KT88.

But need to take into consideration of the maintenance, the price aspect and your personal preference.

cheers

Got mine from a re-seller from JB. Mine is an actual KT88 Bewitch and just recently changed the tubes to a cyro tubes TungSol 6550.

I stumble across this bewitch by a recommendation by a Hifi guru of mine who has been in the hifi world for the past 25 years after 2 months of searching a replacement for my Primare SS amp. Budgeted around under 10K . Carried the Cremonas around hifi shops demo-ing the likes from KRELL, PRIMALUNA, TRIODE, GRAAF and Audio research int amp.

What I have found that this little bewitch was a good match to the Cremonas where the sound was emotional for vocal, open sound-staging where it was beyond outside the speakers.

I was terkejut la wei for an amp like this behaving similar to the branded amp. So I took a plunge on this little amp with the money saved, I upgraded a few things on the Bewitch - M-caps/Rhodium IEC/Enacom Power filter on IEC/Hifi tuning fuse/RCA power tubes/Tung sol pre tubes and 6550.

Now I'm really happy with the amp. I was reading that if you add a pre-amp on the bewitch, it will sound even better. Thats why I'm experimenting with a Yaqin MS12B coming end of the month from the same retailer from Johor.

I hear the Bewitch 2A3 sounds better if you have a sensitive speakers.

arremie wrote:I've narrowed down my choices of tube amps as below. I need some pro and
cons from the pros since I have very little knowledge about this apart
from what I read from the net.

1) Bewitch with EL34 tube
2) Bewitch with KT88/6550 tube
3) Music Angel with EL34B tube
4) Music Angel with KT88 tube

Power is not an issue since I will be using this with 97db Klipsch RF-62
and all those amps are more than capable of driving it.

Personally I have chosen Bewitch EL34. From what I've read, EL34 bring
out the best in mids where RF-62 is not very efficient at. So it could
be a good combination. Another is because of auto-bias feature of
Bewitch which I'm not sure whether Music Angel has this.

Anyway, any second opinion really appreciated before I pull the trigger.
Thanks

Wah.. My prediction is correct.. You really lined up for the investment.
You are really progressing fast.

br@d, thanks for all the info. Make me feels like I'm choosing the right one for my budget. Will check out things as per your recommendation.

car, good things won't last forever. Have to move fast while the interest is still there

arremie wrote:I just got word from the seller that Bewitch is more reliable in
production quality compared to Music Angel.

So I'm gonna get the Bewitch instead. Plus it has all the features that I
need (except remote control). Last thought....should I go with EL34 or
KT88. A bit more expensive for KT88 but if it's better than it should be
worth it.

Hi arremie,
Go for single ended amplifiers since you mentioned you are using high eff speakers. From my experience PP really suck once you put a decent SE and PP side by side on a high eff spaker. Trust me, the PP will put up a forceful sound yet veiled. The SE sounds more clear with much better transparency and relax sound. For low running cost EL34 will suffice for starters.

cheers.

tlkoo wrote:dear low

it does not go low? my setup does 33hz thereabout speakers that count, not amp as i reckon aura only goes down to 50hz thereabout





cheers
tlkoo

Hi Koo,

The Miniwatt has got surprisingly good bass, even though its a SE amp.. I was meaning the Aura actually, so yes its the Aura thats lacking....

Brad....

Could you share the contact details of the retailer

cheers

wingman

There are 2 bewitch re-sellers I know that you can contact
1) Edwin -0167887786 (reseller from Johor, he'll post the amp to your house)
2) Libertie 017 234 6116 (Owns a shop 2nd floor in Amcorp- Just went there yesterday and saw a bewitch amp and possible for you to demo with your speakers.

Brad....

Much appreciated.

Thought the Bewitch 300B has been sold ?

cheers

Sorry, was there last Friday . Not sure sold or not

Just auditioned the Bewitch 300B. First impression....that thing is huge! Even
the tube is humongous haha. Anyway, 300B is very transparent but I don't
think it will suit my kind of music. Slow pace vocal will be excellent
with 300B. Put something faster than it will jumble up a bit and even
the bass becomes boomy.

So my option so far still with either KT88/6550 or EL34. Unless I can go
and listen to 2A3 which I think should be faster than 300B.

Brad....

No worries...

Base on reviews from most of the audio forums, the KT 88 /6550 is a much better performer.

It's suprising that you don't have much audio shops carry these makes other then the likes of "Dared", "MingDa" tubey amps. To costly, no demand

Cheers

- br@d - wrote:

Now I'm really happy with the amp. I was reading that if you add a pre-amp on the bewitch, it will sound even better. Thats why I'm experimenting with a Yaqin MS12B coming end of the month from the same retailer from Johor.

im having this ms12b rite now. on the 1st hand, its a pre for my setup. later on i read from the seller you can add this between cdp & integrated amp, by using its low output. i did this & now it sounded even better. did AB test & definitely its even better than being a pre. yes.. the 12au7 buffs your music to a better level!!

bro azri, how's the connection like? CDP out -> MS12B in. Then MS12B
out 0.25v -> int amp CD in?

yes it is. you can turn the volume knob on the MS to the max & dont worry it, bunyi tak pecah tapi.. fulammakk shtimmm!! theres still room for improvement if you use external dac, i've tried with my DITB but it seems that my uni player has a better internal twin dac

more interesting, when i use main direct on my int amp those ssssssssss sound of tone distortion disappeared completely..! its like your on tube amp!!

Cool. That's what I wanna do in the first place but just don't know how.
Meaning we can control the volume using int amp with MS12B volume turn
all the way up...right?

Are you saying we can only do this with any preamp with low output? The
drawback of MS12B is only a single input. I prefer 2 or more.

err...out of curiosity, have you tried with 0.7v output?

yes, the low output. i dont dare to use the 0.75 since it is stated its for power amps. theres two inputs, cd & LP right?.. well if you are creative enough, you can always customized selector box using good quality materials.

i'm not sure of others, you can try & see the results. but if its not tube pre u may hear an even worse inter-distortion or even humming sound. this ms 12B low output was recommended to be seated between your cdp & int amp by the seller, thats why i dared to do so.. cheers

What's the difference then using MS12B this way if compare to tube
buffer such as Yaqin CD2.

arremie wrote:What's the difference then using MS12B this way if compare to tube
buffer such as Yaqin CD2.

that I will reveal after I receive the ms12b end of the month when AB comparasion is done . The loser of the battle will be sold to the open Market:arrow:

Logically, the MS12 would come out ahead as its purpose build and has superior build quality in terms of component used compared to the other.

cheers

br@d, looking forward to it.

wingman, you are saying sonically 2 x 12AX7 and 2 x 12AU7 sounded better
than 2 x 6J1/6AK5/5654/4010?

Locally who knows how to change caps/transistor/IEC in CD2? Feel like
modding. Got nothing better to do while waiting for my new speakers

Arremie,

What speakers le?

Oh yea,bad news, my friend informed me he is not ready to sell his bewitch 6550. Still want to do some combo with it for his bedroom set.

i have no idea if 12au/ax is better than 6j/6a, as for me, my reference was from them :

http://www.vinylengine.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9901&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

as for brad, does your buffer still having its china tube? if you have rolled the tubes than its a bit unfair to compare with ms12 unless if you do the same. btw it is said in that forum to roll the tube to amperex, mullard or telefunken & it will shine like it should.

i think i'll go for russian electro harmonix 12au since mullard or tfunken are a bit off my budget.. cheers

Arremie.....

Logically, yes the MS 12 should outshine the Tube Buffer. Taking into consideration the build quality and the purpose of each gear.

The MS12 is slated in the "Pre Amp" category or some call it a "Phono Amp".

As what Azri says, maybe with some tube rolling either product should be good.

My CDP sounds much weighted / precise with the assistance from the Tube buffer and am looking for another unit for my Tuner..... This config is staying for good.

cheers

br@d, I only upgrade my current Klipsch RF-52 to RF-62 (bigger woofer) as I need more bass. Auditioned Dali Ikon and Paradigm but still I like Klipsch better.

Anyway, Thanks for the info on 6550. I'm having 2nd thought on Bewitch. It's too big and too heavy. I don't have a good back. Lifting my previous 30kg Emotiva power amp almost cause me serious back injury so I'm not gonna go there again. Need to look for something not more than 20kg. Have to do another round of searching and comparing....sigh.

wingman, I hope you are right about MS12B. I'm next in line

mr armi, sadly im in australia right now, until october. if not, i can let you have a listened to my ms12B. are you gonna hook this to a power amp or int amp? either way, just have an audition first, u mau or not like the sound.. cheers

Arremie....

Why is there a need to move your AMP up and about ? ( get some assistance when moving so your back problem does not recur )

Patience will net you what you desire.

Azri....

Audition the MS 12 is only at the sellers location in JB who carries this product.

In KL, i have seen only four audio dealers carrying products from the emerging markets ;

1.Audio Synthesis -MingDa/Shangling/others,
2.Asia Sound ( Xindax )
3.Desa Home - Dared
4.Libertie - ( Soundstage or something along the line )

Someone in this forum may have chanced upon other dealers and would like to share

cheers

azri, thanks for the thoughts. I will wait for feedback from br@d
hopefully in a week or two. If good news then I will try with int amp
first and see how it goes.

wingman, I have a disease....gatal tangan. Always wanna move things
around even a minor adjustment or alignment. Anyway, where is Desa Home?
The one in Lowyat? I need to see Dared.

Arremie...

There is one on LowYat.....and another at the following address and its their HQ:

Kompleks Desa
Ground Floor
Jalan Kepong.

Person to Contact - Chai - 03-62752840.

Route Guide :

Jalan Kuching --> Jalan Jinjang, heading towards Sungai Buluh.

Landmarks you need to watch out for :

Carrefour on you right ( after a short distance ) --> Jaya Jusco on your left ( after short distance ) Mosque on your left. Short distance a flyover ( take the flyover ) --> keep to your left --> as you come down the fly over you can see the Complex on your left. They are on the Ground Floor.

Hope the directions help.

Happy Hunting

cheers

can some 1 let me know what is the prices for Bewitch KT88

wingman, thanks for the direction. Appreciate it.

khlim, the 300B version Libertie's selling is less than 3k. In JB I believed you can give Edwin a call. His number somewhere in this thread.