How to repair warp LP ?

ANy idea or experience ?

Hi Wabun,

Adrian of Audio Image uses a press to press them for 24 hrs. I think the press is also heated but not sure to what temperature. I think it should be below 50 deg celsius as above which PVC starts to soften.

Beware when you do that as PVC produces dioxin which is deadly.

Might be better to throw them away. Do not send to incineration plant.

For those who are interested to know more about the health hazard poses by PVC, just google and you will find lots of links to articles written about the dangers of PVC. Some examples are;

http://archive.greenpeace.org/toxics/html/content/pvc3.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyvinyl_chloride.

Some article also mentioned that PVC is carcinogenic.

The waffle-press (or Panini-Press if u like) machine only heats up to 65 Celcius. The idea is not to melt to LP but it is the slow and controlled cooling from 65 degrees back to room temp that will flatten the LP back.

PVC only starts to melt at 100+ degrees. So all you worry-warts need not be scared about it at all.


There are other home-made remedies.. like baking LPs in the midday sun sandwiched between 2 pieces of glass, etc etc. The problem is to be able to do it consistently. Hence the Waffle-Press machine is a safer bet.

mugenfoo wrote:

PVC only starts to melt at 100+ degrees. So all you worry-warts need not be scared about it at all.

Mugen, the key word here is "soften" and not "melt".

Once PVC is softened, it will distort, especially under compression.

Thanks.. will try out the glass sandwitch method.. reluctant to throw the LP since it was German 1974 pressing.. and love the songs..

wabun wrote:Thanks.. will try out the glass sandwitch method.. reluctant to throw the LP since it was German 1974 pressing.. and love the songs..

if its a rare LP, then better don't gamble with sun+sandwich method. Better just pay RM20 and get it flattened by the proper machine.

123_rocketman wrote:

mugenfoo wrote:

PVC only starts to melt at 100+ degrees. So all you worry-warts need not be scared about it at all.

Mugen, the key word here is "soften" and not "melt".

Once PVC is softened, it will distort, especially under compression.

A warped LP is already "distorted". At least flattening it will render the disc playable once more without the stylus taking flight like a catapult launch from the USS Enterprise.

If any of you got any rare collectibles but warped to the stage of unplayability, don't throw them, but give to me instead ? i'll help to "dispose" (ahem ahem) them for you in a fully safe and environmentally friendly manner.

mugenfoo wrote:

wabun wrote:Thanks.. will try out the glass sandwitch method.. reluctant to throw the LP since it was German 1974 pressing.. and love the songs..

if its a rare LP, then better don't gamble with sun+sandwich method. Better just pay RM20 and get it flattened by the proper machine.

Agree.

Sun+sandwich method is crude as you cant control the temperature. Please bear in mind the surface temperature of the LP can go up to as high as 65 deg celsius under the hot sun!

http://furutech.com/a2008/product2.asp?prodNo=263

http://www.furutech.com/a2008/product2.asp?prodNo=334

Saw this in web...
Every vinyl enthusiast has records in their collection, or come across LPs they’d love to own, but were just too warped for any cartridge/arm to track. The DFV-1 the one-stop, one-button solution to your problems! The DFV-1 provides controlled-heat perfect flattening for all your warped records, even those with only slight irregularities just enough to unsettle your cartridge and cause mistracking.

Like most people who collect records, out next pay check is going to more records so some other less costly solutions could be:


•A pile of books (take the record out of the sleeve first of course)
•An oven (dont bake it for too long!)
•The Sun and two plates of glass (thank you mother nature)

actually here's an idea .... its more "controlled" than leaving LPs to bake in the hot sun.

A similar idea would be to also sandwich the LP between 2 glass panes and clamped with those heavy duty paper spring clips, but instead of baking it in the hot sun, just leave it in the car boot over a typical hot malaysian day from morning till next morning. So the "ambient" heat would still cook the LP up to about 50+ degrees but without the risk of direct sunlight burning on the LP or fading the labels. Then leave the LPs to slowly cool down overnight until the next morning to approx. 7.00 or 8.00am, remove the glass clamps and see if the LP is nicely flattened or not?

This idea came about because i heard a story of some local music distributor (whom i shall not name, and in his infinite wisdom decided to peddle some brand new LPs in the boot of his car around town. Needless to say, the whole batch was warped even before the LPs were sold). So similarly, this process could also be "reversed" in the exact same way !


Bear in mind, there are some extreme cases of really bad warps such that when the LP is re-flatten'ed , it becomes an egg-shaped/oval disc.
But still a worthwhile attempt because if the warp was so bad to the point of unplayability, its worth a try to salvage the disc back.

If it becomes and egg-shaped disc so badly that the sideways motion would also cause a mis-track, then only does the LP become a complete write-off. Good for retro wall-art decor then.

you got the idea Mugenfoo, I will try out and see if it works.. of coz try out the Fei Yuk Qing LP 1st :-)

wabun wrote:you got the idea Mugenfoo, I will try out and see if it works.. of coz try out the Fei Yuk Qing LP 1st :-)

Yeah, the idea is to use the car boot like an oven, but without the sun directly shining on the LP. And the max temp also wont be too high to damage the LP.
And the slow cooling process overnight will ensure that the LP cool down over a few hours. Same like those RM7000 Furutech machines. But this is free.

Wabun,

WHAT La you !!! Don't go and destroy that Fei Yuk Qing lp la. Give to me and will pass you another LP to use for the experiment.

Anyone notice any deterioration in sound quality after warped LP is 'heat treated and flattened?

We all know what is going on in the groove, heating up and cooling LP treatment, if it is not done gradually, it will disturb the molecular formation of the vinyl, like the quenching process of steel for example.

I have never heat treated warp LP before. But I do have couple quite collectible, one of them is Umbrella direct cut!

Mugenfoo, That's a brilliant idea. I love reading this kind of DIY stuff that most likely will work!

Problem is my budget Rega P1 wont hear much different even if I correct a wrapped LP.

Please teach me the way to be more faithful over my record playback, as my digital setup is now like 10 steps in advance in "hi fi" performance.

I've done some improvement here and there to extract the remaining juice of the P1 can offer. Like machined weight metal on platter for stability, rewired the cable to run on balanced mode..

Dont ask me to change player ok, this will never happen.

Will the Ortofon Red 2M catridge help?

For P1, just "align" the warped LP to be opposite of the P1's warped platter. They will cancel each other out!

Problem solved!

haha... wish I could do that... my platter is much much flatter run after much alignment done by myself last time... so, tak boleh..

Wabun,

WHAT La you !!! Don't go and destroy that Fei Yuk Qing lp la. Give to me and will pass you another LP to use for the experiment.

Haha, I trust Mugenfoo this time, see if can work. My actual warp LP to "flatten" is

and

mugenfoo wrote:For P1, just "align" the warped LP to be opposite of the P1's warped platter. They will cancel each other out!

Problem solved!

Hahahahahaha... Ini macam pun bolih.. Geng..

Just remember to "experiment" on some "not so valuable" LP 1st ya .... hahaha.

Disclaimer. I haven't tried it myself ... so you're on your own here, wabun.

wabun wrote:

Wabun,

WHAT La you !!! Don't go and destroy that Fei Yuk Qing lp la. Give to me and will pass you another LP to use for the experiment.

Haha, I trust Mugenfoo this time, see if can work. My actual warp LP to "flatten" is

and

adrian4454 wrote:
Please teach me the way to be more faithful over my record playback, as my digital setup is now like 10 steps in advance in "hi fi" performance.

I've done some improvement here and there to extract the remaining juice of the P1 can offer. Like machined weight metal on platter for stability, rewired the cable to run on balanced mode..

Dont ask me to change player ok, this will never happen.

Will the Ortofon Red 2M catridge help?

Well, lemme use an analogy here:

Would a top of the line Michelin PilotSport-3 or Falken Azenis RT615K tyre make any difference on a stock rustbucket 1988 Proton Saga? Perhaps, but whatever miniscule gains you might get, would it be worthwhile to splurge on a Saga of this condition ?

Not saying that the P1 is bad, but its a super entry level budget deck. So u can only get so much out of it, regardless of mods. And its easy to go overboard $$$ with mods such that you're better off selling a stock P1, and getting something better in the future instead for the same amount of money. So for the meantime, just be contend with what it's worth and enjoy the music. If i were you, any decent budget cartridge on it would suffice.

Just to share a recent experience, i recently had a Rega P2 fitted with a really unknown Sony cartridge. It was pitted against a modern CD player and guess which source won over the listener's ears ? Of course, a very decent phono stage helped here. So in your case, if you're still itchy backside to improve the sound, try a better phono stage. Go for those with separate outboard power supplies (and not those with plasticky wall-wart 2-prong power adapters).

And as with any analog deck, proper setup & alignment can totally make or break the sound here. Who does your TT alignment job for you or do u do it yourself ?

haha, Thanks for the brutally honest opinions. It is more like Michelin PilotSport-3 on a new saga BLM or entry level proton persona. Rustbucket is more like those 80s al cheapo LP players, not to name them as I suspect will stir up a hornet nest.

Hmm.. I wonder 1 of the Shure Catridge attached to my dad old Dual 1015 would sound better than the Ortofon. Anyway, I totally understand your points of a good player lays a good foundation for future upgrade. If we dont have an itchy backside occasionally, do you think we will summon this much of technical knowledge and understanding now? This cheap Deck allow me to learn without worrying of breaking anything expensive..

Ya, haha my Phonostage has a outboard power supply like what u can dream of in your greatest nightmare. Anyhow, do let me know which model of outboard phonostage you do think has good performance for the dollar, your opinion. Thanks.

well, there are some locally made Phono stages are bang for buck. Can compete with other "branded" ones costing many times more.

The two popular ones are Frankie's Pipit series, sold directly by Frankie himself, and another one that is sold directly by some audio shop, lets call it their "in-house" design. Never figured what name or brand is it called really.

Apparently, it's called "AIME" ....

bassraptor wrote:Apparently, it's called "AIME" ....

The power of "branding" (or the lack of it).

Can I tumpang to ask you all a question. It is about replacement my new mc cartridge. After calibrating the cart accordingly to factory instruction, when I play on certain LP, the cart vibrate seriously at certain track for few seconds. Most mint LP presenting this problem especially when it reach playback in between tracks or end of the record. Previously I used mm cart with no problem at all. Wish to ask if it is 'natural fenomena' for new mc cart or groove at record cause the problem. Or does it need running in before it behave normally.

Thank you

Define 'calibrating' to factory instruction. Thank you.

hangleng wrote:Can I tumpang to ask you all a question. It is about replacement my new mc cartridge. After calibrating the cart accordingly to factory instruction, when I play on certain LP, the cart vibrate seriously at certain track for few seconds. Most mint LP presenting this problem especially when it reach playback in between tracks or end of the record. Previously I used mm cart with no problem at all. Wish to ask if it is 'natural fenomena' for new mc cart or groove at record cause the problem. Or does it need running in before it behave normally.

Thank you

Here are a few possible causes:
1) Not enough tracking force

2) Bad anti-skate (either too much or too little)

3) Is the overhang & zenith alignment done with 2 null points within the playing arc of the tonearm's path ? I've seen some really botched up jobs where the cart is always either over-hung or under-hung too much , and with zenith angle. Hence skating forces become too great to compensate. Unless of course, if you are playing a tangential deck. Then u need to check for perpendicularity across the inner to outer surfaces. Any bad misalignment on a tangential deck would be totally catastrophic in nature.

4) Hows the stylus azimuth ? Is it leaning to one side too much ? If u can see it visually, means its way off already.

5)or the cart & arm is not compatible with each other. Compliance issues.

====

problems 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 are easily fixed, with someone who knows what he/she is doing and with the right tools & right tweaks.

if problem 5, you're screwed. Get a diff cart/arm combo.

Until u get the problem solved, better don't play your precious LPs as a misaligned system will cause in-groove damage and premature wear on the record.

just a reminder, if anyone is attempting the glass sandwich method, pls cut out the centre portion for the label section cos the label section is always thicker than the groove section. Otherwise might end up with a not truly flat lp afterall.....

boxer wrote:just a reminder, if anyone is attempting the glass sandwich method, pls cut out the centre portion for the label section cos the label section is always thicker than the groove section. Otherwise might end up with a not truly flat lp afterall.....

To get such specific sandwich glass with a cut-out in the centre, might as well just go for the waffle press machine treatment instead.

Besides, those RM7000 waffle press machines STILL don't have any recessed centre part to accommodate the label. Its all completely flat top and bottom anyways. So by those experts who built those machines , the presence of the slightly thick labels is not a problem at all.

mugenfoo wrote:

bassraptor wrote:Apparently, it's called "AIME" ....

The power of "branding" (or the lack of it).

No lar, they have improved already. Look carefully, the basic and premium multi-curve phono preamps both even have a model number engraved on the front face plate. And both have remote control.