High sensitivity DIY speaker

Hi all,

I have been reading with interest, another thread regarding high sensitivity speakers where audio nirvana drivers were mentioned.

I intend embarking on a project/experiment, building a pair of speakers based on their drivers, some time next year. Unfortunately, I have no DIY experience (but i have access to a friendly carpenter / cabinet maker).

Any advice on driver and cabinet selection, etc... would be welcome along with any info. on the shipping cost (and customs charges)

Thanks.

Which driver you plan to buy?
My advice is build the cabinet with plywood(~1.5-2cm) and not MDF.
If u can design or got friend can disign the cabinet then ask them to design, the original dimension is a bit not user friendly too short to most listener.

so soem may need to increase the high ~4inch by using stand or other support, some even need to tilt the speaker up after the stand/support.

I don't use the ori design for my 12" super cast.

if u can afford bigger driver then go for 15". Don't expect a 12" can give u very low frequency, it will roll off ~40Hz, anyway u can use a sub to help up by crossing at~35-50hz

if you love very smooth sound then go for alnico.

tangent wrote:
Unfortunately, I have no DIY experience (but i have access to a friendly carpenter / cabinet maker).

Any advice on driver and cabinet selection, etc... would be welcome along with any info. on the shipping cost (and customs charges)

Thanks.

Hi Tangent, speaker is something that hard to diy, it's just mean for beginer...

furthermore u now work with hi efficient speaker, any small error in the design, the speaker will show.

Thank you for the responses.

Was originally looking at either the 10" or 12" driver in their 2.8 cabinet. I accept that the low end may be lacking but assumed that it wouldn't be worse than my current bookshelf speaker.

I will certainly look into the advice regarding the 15" driver but am unsure if it will suit my room - current dimensions are approx. 14'(d) x 19'(w). Ceiling slopes from 7.5' to about 13'.

I also accept that a lot of things can go wrong but that's why ;
1. i'm trying to work out a strict budget to cap my downside &
2. i decided to experiment on a single driver design to reduce the no. variables.

cheers

another safe but little expensive way is import the whole piece of speaker from US like what my friend do. then safe you the trouble to tune the speaker.

Kindly note that whatever plan given by commonsense audio is base on the material they use for teh cabinet, when your material changed then a lot thing may need to change.

from the audition of my friend and myself on the soem of the local made cabinet using MDF on AN alnico & super cast 12", the result not so satisfy, booming and heavy boxy sound.

That's the reason i made my cabinet with 1" plywood and have internal bracing at every edge. Any way u actually dont need 1" ~1.5cm to 2cm is enough (otherwise will be heavy).

Since my meterial different, n my cabinet dimension also different (i use golden dimension so that easier to tune) so absorbing material/thickness, covering area all need to be changed/test out.

Hi sss333, what enclosure type r u using? Bass reflex? Horn loaded? Open. Buffer?

Thanks,

With regards to Audio Nirvana, I think we have the most experience building it.
We have built among our group maybe around 25 pairs of various sizes.
According to our trials and errors, we have gather many valuable experience on what works and what doesn't.

For one, 12" super cast is the best and most balanced.
15" might be a bit slow.
Alnico is more difficult to drive and given enough power, gives very solid bass and very suitable for Rock music and Vocals.
Super cast is smoother and very good for vocals and Jazz.
Bass from these floorstanders is amazing and highs very good for single driver.
Open baffle with 12 or 15 inch cast is fantastic and simple to made.
Use not larger than 16 gauge speaker cable and direct to the driver without using binding post.

Always follow the cabinets plan given by common sense audio. They are the best. A bit of difference in port size and height changes the sound.

Original cabinets from Audio Nirvana uses MDF and works very very well, so use MDF, especially the front baffle of 1 inch thickness. Different plywood will give you different sound.

Follow the size and location of damping material given by Audio Nirvana/Common Sense Audio. You cannot go wrong.

Bass from an 8 inch Alnico or 12 inch Super cast will put some floor standers to shame. We have not tried the 10 inch alnico so we do not know how it sound.

12 inch super cast can be powered by 2.5 watts tube amp and have vocals to put a lot of high priced speakers to shame, incl. BBC heritage.

For starters, go for 12 inch supercast in a 2.8 MK1 cabinets.

There is no boom at all except in the alnico range if damping and cabinets not properly done. If properly done according to specs, it is heaven.

Any further details can PM me.

Thanks VS 126 and sss333 for your input, most appreciated.

Based on replies so far, will probably look at the 12" super cast drivers in MDF cabinets

Any further inputs though on following :
1. which cabinet/driver combination gives better soundstaging?
2. whether the finish to the MDF (internal & external) matters? My plan is to use spray painted primer, followed with car paint.
3. Any indications on the approx. cost of shipping for the drivers and the customs / duties that need to be paid?

cheers.

12 inch cast with 2.8 MK1 cabinets is what I wld recommend
make sure yr carpenter follows the dimensions correctly
Very good staging and live sounding
Exterior finish doesn't matter
Interior finish bare MBF(part cover with damping)
The more driver you buy/ship, the cheaper it is.
Duties is how well you KENG with customs.

Enjoy yr poison

Import duty for drivers (without cabinet) is 10% on CIF value and 20% + 10% for complete built up speakers.

Don't use "egg shell" sponge as damping material. David of common sense audio said it doesn't work.

Pay Rocketman for the best advise. I think he owns at least 4 pairs, right?

Egg shell is exactly what it is for.....EGGS.

Thanks to all the sifus for the advice received.

Will start saving my pennies now to fund this experiment.

cheers

Hi all , it's look like very interesting. Any of u can post some of ur photos of ur speaker project?

Cheers,

Hi:
I started this speaker project few months back with my friend. Yet to complete as we only build it when both of us are free.
Good to know that there are so many experienced speaker builder in local DIY community after i read this thread.
Any sifu here has experience building this type of speaker or similar type before? Any advice or input is much appreciated.
It's a four walls constantly expanding BVR horn.
Some photos.
Thanks.

Below are some of the DIY Speakers my friends built:

Audio Nirvana 8 inch super cast in 2.8 MK2 cabinets & 12 inch super cast in 3.5 MK 2 cabinets.



Wood Cone 6.5" Full Range Driver (side), 8" AN super cast and 4" Full Range Driver (center)
[img]



Wood Cone 4" Cast Full Range Driver

Wow! Very impressive sets of speakers.

You guys tho', must have huge rooms or very understanding spouses!

Thanks for positng the photos.

Benzene,

I hope i can build 1 like u....

vs126,

Ay idea on the cost of getting your friend to build a pair of the cabinet for the 12" in the picture?

For the Audio Nirvana Drivers, try to get Group Buy, ie gather few interested parties and buy it together. AN offer discount for bulk purchase 5 pairs and above.
I got my 12 inch super cast below RM1,000 with group purchase coz of discount and also freight low on big volume.

If purchase individually, cost will be arount RM1,400 per pair.

Still, very good deal considering the excellent SQ.

Cost of cabinet depends on size required.


From my experience, you cannot go wrong on SQ if you follow the cabinet dimension and damping as specified by Audio Nirvana.

vs126,

If not mistaken, the original plan, the absober sponge is only on upper side , 3 wall which different from your picture.
Anyway i still find spong cover till almost the bottom suit me.

I believe we buy through the same group last time through shahidan right?

you have got something interesting here benzene, i been making speakers too, may i know how you tune them? on the chamber? and how low you intend to have it tune?

anyway it is a good job , i always salute those who dare to try, only by doing so you can go to places you never been, i assumed you and your friend been building speaker for a long time and thanks for sharing


koto

benzene wrote:Hi:
I started this speaker project few months back with my friend. Yet to complete as we only build it when both of us are free.
Good to know that there are so many experienced speaker builder in local DIY community after i read this thread.
Any sifu here has experience building this type of speaker or similar type before? Any advice or input is much appreciated.
It's a four walls constantly expanding BVR horn.
Some photos.
Thanks.

this should be the Gui-Sound Wooden Cone Speaker from china, the same manufacturer who made those Audio nirvana drivers. look interesting i believe they sound good too.

VS126 wrote:Below are some of the DIY Speakers my friends built:

Audio Nirvana 8 inch super cast in 2.8 MK2 cabinets & 12 inch super cast in 3.5 MK 2 cabinets.



Wood Cone 6.5" Full Range Driver (side), 8" AN super cast and 4" Full Range Driver (center)
[img]



Wood Cone 4" Cast Full Range Driver

making the enclosure locally make more sense as malaysia made Mdf board is one of the best, may be you should consider chipboard composite with plywood , chipboard for the internal and ply for the external, most of the design from common sense are bass reflex because only by introducing this they can sell more drivers, much easy to build but i do believe their drivers sound good in t line, horn, karlson and some other enclosure design, this is what i think only may not be right, but you can download their data and run some numbers to find out before you proceed with your project


koto

sss333 wrote:another safe but little expensive way is import the whole piece of speaker from US like what my friend do. then safe you the trouble to tune the speaker.

Kindly note that whatever plan given by commonsense audio is base on the material they use for teh cabinet, when your material changed then a lot thing may need to change.

from the audition of my friend and myself on the soem of the local made cabinet using MDF on AN alnico & super cast 12", the result not so satisfy, booming and heavy boxy sound.

That's the reason i made my cabinet with 1" plywood and have internal bracing at every edge. Any way u actually dont need 1" ~1.5cm to 2cm is enough (otherwise will be heavy).

Since my meterial different, n my cabinet dimension also different (i use golden dimension so that easier to tune) so absorbing material/thickness, covering area all need to be changed/test out.

sss333 wrote:vs126,

If not mistaken, the original plan, the absober sponge is only on upper side , 3 wall which different from your picture.
Anyway i still find spong cover till almost the bottom suit me.

Some of those speakers are done and redone again.

The one you see for the 3.5 are not damping but thin doga carpet lining the inner wall. The damping is on the upper half and on three sides only.

I hope yr AN sounds good.

[quote="koto"]this should be the Gui-Sound Wooden Cone Speaker from china, the same manufacturer who made those Audio nirvana drivers. look interesting i believe they sound good too.[quote="VS126"]

No, actually there are from Create, HK.

They are slightly different, the cast and magnet, if I am not wrong.
The ones from Audio Nirvana also is different from Gui, from the photos, the cast frame and magnets but do not know if it sounds alike. Maybe you can try one and let us know, cld save us lots of money.

koto,

Agree with u, CS have to make the plan simple so that easy fro those who wish to build it. Almost any carpenter can build it in day. I think is is part of business startegy. Thus there might be a better cabinet which can reveal the full potential, so we have to see who got such courage to venture ti different cabinet.

U r right, malaysia do have very good material, but to get a good carpenter is not easy, to get a good and cheap carpenter even more difficult. That's the reason i had to do a lot touch up work.

MDF for me is not a good sound material, do you see any intrument made of mdf? But it is a material which easy to dela with, very standard size, so very good for cormercial speaker so that the variation can reduce to minimum.

[img][/img]

My AN12

[img][/img]

Initial cutting and assemble done by carpenter as photo, then the rest is touch up but myself.

vs126, sound suit be. BAD and good is subjective. To me this sound not as dull and not boxy sound as the local made MDF box which i listen last time.

Had to say that the MDF cabinet i saw last time not look as nice and good build as your photo.

good work but the most important thing is you like them, looking at the photos the sound could improve much more with some reinforcement right behind the driver mounting , when i am free i will look up the data and the plan provided by CS and remodel them and see how they look , is it a 12" driver?

koto

sss333 wrote:[img][/img]

Initial cutting and assemble done by carpenter as photo, then the rest is touch up but myself.

vs126, sound suit be. BAD and good is subjective. To me this sound not as dull and not boxy sound as the local made MDF box which i listen last time.

Had to say that the MDF cabinet i saw last time not look as nice and good build as your photo.

u bought them from ebay, around RM 400.00 right ? they look beautiful

koto

[quote="VS126"][quote="koto"]this should be the Gui-Sound Wooden Cone Speaker from china, the same manufacturer who made those Audio nirvana drivers. look interesting i believe they sound good too.

VS126 wrote:

No, actually there are from Create, HK.

They are slightly different, the cast and magnet, if I am not wrong.
The ones from Audio Nirvana also is different from Gui, from the photos, the cast frame and magnets but do not know if it sounds alike. Maybe you can try one and let us know, cld save us lots of money.

Koto:
I'm new in building speakers but my friend are very experienced. Good question on how to tune it, the chamber and how low can it go.
My friend design his own speaker cabinet based on calculation, he'll simulate the data before coming out with the final plan. We're still discussing how low we want to go and how we want the compression chamber to look like. It's very versatile as we can tune to whatever we like, initial plan is to have to compression chamber at the horn "mouth".
We only use plywood and solid wood for this horn project.
And he doesn't take design from speaker manufacturer because he claimed that it's compromised, same thing like you said, simple cabinet deisgn to make it more "commercially friendly".
We love odd shape speaker, especially horn
Last year, he built an improvised Hedlund horn for his customer using the Feastrex 5" full range driver, model d5nf which costs near to RM13,000 a pair now, that was available locally through Diyparadise.
Wonderful sound...
Looks like you're an experienced speaker builder too
You got PM.

sss333 wrote:koto,

Agree with u, CS have to make the plan simple so that easy fro those who wish to build it. Almost any carpenter can build it in day. I think is is part of business startegy. Thus there might be a better cabinet which can reveal the full potential, so we have to see who got such courage to venture ti different cabinet.

U r right, malaysia do have very good material, but to get a good carpenter is not easy, to get a good and cheap carpenter even more difficult. That's the reason i had to do a lot touch up work.

MDF for me is not a good sound material, do you see any intrument made of mdf? But it is a material which easy to dela with, very standard size, so very good for cormercial speaker so that the variation can reduce to minimum.

sss333:
I share the same thought too

i never use mdf or hdf for any of my speaker project too, to me carpenter can't really design speaker unless they have the love in audio, the wood work is one thing the designing part is another thing but if can design and build them then the carpenter do the finishing part, that will be a better combination right?

koto

benzene wrote:

sss333 wrote:koto,

Agree with u, CS have to make the plan simple so that easy fro those who wish to build it. Almost any carpenter can build it in day. I think is is part of business startegy. Thus there might be a better cabinet which can reveal the full potential, so we have to see who got such courage to venture ti different cabinet.

U r right, malaysia do have very good material, but to get a good carpenter is not easy, to get a good and cheap carpenter even more difficult. That's the reason i had to do a lot touch up work.

MDF for me is not a good sound material, do you see any intrument made of mdf? But it is a material which easy to dela with, very standard size, so very good for cormercial speaker so that the variation can reduce to minimum.

sss333:
I share the same thought too

If i got enough tools and space i prefer to Diy by myself except the coating/veneer.

can anybody share with us the common tools for this carpenter work?
i only got jig saw, drill and rotary saw. can't cut the wood in a precise way, otherwise i dont need a carpenter...

get those plywood seller to cut all the panels for you so that you do less cutting. they charge u around rm 1 per cut or so, all you need is a sander now and i believe you can do it, good luck

koto

sss333 wrote:If i got enough tools and space i prefer to Diy by myself except the coating/veneer.

can anybody share with us the common tools for this carpenter work?
i only got jig saw, drill and rotary saw. can't cut the wood in a precise way, otherwise i dont need a carpenter...

Koto,
Tell me which shop acn do that? i will get them do it for me in future. Last time i also 12 do like that, but the carpenter said they dont do such work. Either u buy the whole pcs cut by yourself, or they make the cabinet for u... no cut cut work : ( other wise i dont need to carry the cabinet go up 4th floor withot lift, carry till i almost dying...
Besides, he also din't do as what we had agreed earlier...

may i know where is ur location? if u want to build more complicated enclosure, may be in multiple layer in any other shape then i can introduce u a friend who do CNC cut but then you have to design your own and draw in full size cad format, he can cut them for u too.

koto

sss333 wrote:Koto,
Tell me which shop acn do that? i will get them do it for me in future. Last time i also 12 do like that, but the carpenter said they dont do such work. Either u buy the whole pcs cut by yourself, or they make the cabinet for u... no cut cut work : ( other wise i dont need to carry the cabinet go up 4th floor withot lift, carry till i almost dying...
Besides, he also din't do as what we had agreed earlier...

Sss333:
Most shop selling plywood or mdf does offer the cutting service. Maybe coincidently the shop you went to never offer such service.
By the way, if we DIY speaker here in Malaysia, why use veneer when we have so much resources, use Teak wood externally, sand it down with sander and dye with your desired wood color and finally apply few fine layers of either oil based or water based polyurethane. You'll be able to have nice natural wood finishing.

hi benzene,

i think i know who ur friend is, is he vmps? because that's the way he like to build his speaker

koto

benzene wrote:Sss333:
Most shop selling plywood or mdf does offer the cutting service. Maybe coincidently the shop you went to never offer such service.
By the way, if we DIY speaker here in Malaysia, why use veneer when we have so much resources, use Teak wood externally, sand it down with sander and dye with your desired wood color and finally apply few fine layers of either oil based or water based polyurethane. You'll be able to have nice natural wood finishing.

Koto:
Yes, it him.

benzene wrote:Hi:
I started this speaker project few months back with my friend. Yet to complete as we only build it when both of us are free.
Good to know that there are so many experienced speaker builder in local DIY community after i read this thread.
Any sifu here has experience building this type of speaker or similar type before? Any advice or input is much appreciated.
It's a four walls constantly expanding BVR horn.
Some photos.
Thanks.

Hey Bro, finally you post something. Wow, looks like you guys are making your own Nautilus. Cool!

Hi,

I've a few DIY high efficiency speakers under the DIY Speakers and Audio System page. Check it out!

http://www.diy-audio-guide.com/index.html

http://www.diy-audio-guide.com/audio-systems.html
http://www.diy-audio-guide.com/diy-speakers.html

benzene,
how did you do the curve part of the speaker enclosure that requires the bending of the wood. Are those plywood you are using and how did you bend such thick plys ?

Very impressive! Beautifully crafted. How can I contact vmps and how does he charged?

Carz:
Sorry, never check this thread for very long time.
We just cut into desired shape and bend the plywood accordingly.

PMC:
You've got PM.

Can I check whether there are any owners of Altec VOT speakers out there?

I have a DIY 828 cabinet with a 416-8C woofers and Altec 288-8K Jabo Horns that I have been fine-tuning over the last few months. I have experimented with different level of damping of the cabinet (stiffening, stuffing mid-hors cavity, etc) and changed the crossovers (from Altec N501-8B to DIY Jean Hiagra's schematics, bypass capacitors, etc). I have also tried some of the suggestions from the net community in fine-tuning altecs VOTs.

I am keen to compare/exchange notes on the next "improvement". PM or email me at mthoi@streamyx.com

Reg.

Some additinal material on VOT...



http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-home&trurl=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.melaudia.net%2Fshowthread.php%3Ftid%3D1652%26page%3D1&lp=fr_en&btnTrUrl=Translate

Vt4c - tx for the thread. I have gone through their postings and would spend some time experiment with different opening sizes.

Hi Mthoi,

My pleasure...Keep me posted about your journey with your Altec VOT.



I used to own a pair of 416B loaded in a Onken cabinet with 902-8B & 511 horn for HF....Love the speed and loudness it produced. Now into a pair of 604 in a 620A cabinet....Equally good, better lows and a lot easier to integrate...Guess I'm taking easy way out!



I saw you're going for a 845 SE amp (on another thread)....I believe you're going the right track and very similiar to what I've done sometime back....But with a pair of 211 SE amp. You can get good result with a pair of 300B but it will be added advantage with a much powerful SE amp.

Hi Vt4c - great to know of another Altec user. Before I embarked on my current VOT using 416-8C/288-8L (I also have a pair of 288-8K for spares), I was seriously contemplating a 604 (which model are you using?). There is also a serious Altec 604-8G user in Kota Kinabalu that DIY his own equipment - met him through a mutual friend.

However, I was sold on the large Altec compression drivers (288) and cool looking Jabo Horns scored high (er - well almost passable) on the WAF. The VOT is in my living room and a conversation piece for first visits.

After about 20 hrs listening to one channel of the 845, it sounds great, and is slowly winning me away from my 300B. Must also be the cool lights in the dark.

I am about 4 "evenings" (i.e. abt 10 hr) away from completing my entire 845 build. I am excited to get things soldered, tested and fine-tuned to hook to the Altecs.

When you are down in KL, do drop me a line.

Reg

Hi Mthoi,

Thank you for the invitation....I'll definately pay you a visit when I'm in the Klang Valley.