Cambridge Audio DACMagic Modification

Hello everyone, i own a Cambridge Audio DAC Magic, and i am thinking of mod it clock, opamp and some better grade capacitors. I got a quote for Burson Audio low jitter clock and other stuffs for about RM1200 including workmanship. Also changing the external power wall-wart type supply to a better quality would cost another RM700.00.

Alternatively, i am looking at Burson Audio DAC160 which cost us$950 (RM3000.00), the spec and build is fanstastic. Personally i have not hear the sound of this particular, but only read some review from net.

Any suggest should i go for the mod of Cambridge or just try Burson Audio DAC, cos the cost of mod the Cambridge Dac will be almost the same or slightly higher as buying Burson Audio DAC (Cambridge DAC RM1400 + Mod RM1200 + PSU RM700).

Any suggestion. Thanks.

Hi,
To be honest I think that's rather expensive modifications that you are being quoted.
For this DAC with new external power supply, Tent Labs low PPM clock module, new opamps and changing critical caps in the signal paths; I should be able to do it for RM 1.2K all in all.

cheers.

Hi Wikin

Look very tempting, btw, could u elaborate more on the external power supply, perhaps pic to show the actual look and spec. i am curious to know more about the improvement of this Dac with the mods, have you personally audit one after the aforesaid mods. Thanks.

Hi puiyk1973,

I've modded many hi-fi equipment throughout the years (from low end chinese stuffs right up to Conrad Johnson, Audio Note etc) for friends and customers and lately I'm getting more time for it (because I'm more grounded at home actually due to kids) so I thought I help out more people here while earning some extras lah...

For your DAC it's nothing new with the concept. It basically needs a more beefy/ powerful power supply to sound better and best of all your DAC uses a simple 12volt AC power supply which is the most basic of the basic. So when you are being quoted RM700 for it I thought crap, that's a con job!
I'll basically purchase a 3x more powerful transformer (12V ac output) and house it in a simple chasis and that's about it. No rocket science.

As for the internals of the DAC there are many items that can be modified to sound better like lower noise voltage regulator, more musical opamps using Burr Browns, better low PPM clock, faster caps etc etc. It's all up to your budget can take.

End of the day what I do is I listen to the end results 1st to hear if the overall sound is coherent, balanced, relaxed and not solid state sounding. Sometimes too many good parts does not necessarily equate to good sound and I'll advise my friends/ customers if things are overdone. I always trust my ears at the end of the day.

cheers.

"I'll basically purchase a 3x more powerful transformer (12V ac output)
and house it in a simple chasis and that's about it. No rocket science."

I am not a electrical engineering, but i read that clean and filter power from a good power supply improve the sound quality to certain extend, so am i correct to say tat 3x more power transformer does not necessary mean clean or undistorted current which are essential to produce finest sound from the equipment.

Clean power helps quite a bit. But to make it simple, a beefier (a higher amperage) transformer will do. It won't cost much and it's a good start to upgrading the power supply while waiting to get hold of a reasonably valued "clean power supply".

I can't say if RM700 for the 12v transformer is justified, but I personally can't see myself paying that much for a transformer.

Add a Schaffner IEC Filter before the transformer will further improve the sound quality.

puiyk1973 wrote:

"I'll basically purchase a 3x more powerful transformer (12V ac output)
and house it in a simple chasis and that's about it. No rocket science."

I am not a electrical engineering, but i read that clean and filter power from a good power supply improve the sound quality to certain extend, so am i correct to say tat 3x more power transformer does not necessary mean clean or undistorted current which are essential to produce finest sound from the equipment.

Hi there,

Both are equally important.

Clean 240 AC and a strong transformer is essential for a hi-end sounding equipment.

For this case since you are working on a certain budget I'm implying that the nearest best case to improve your power supply is to get a strong transformer - it will ensure that when the music is demanding and when all the circuits in the DAC are working overtime, they won't modulate (disturb) the overall incoming 12v.



That's why good products employ more than 1 transformer in the chasis - for e.g. a yesteryear parasound DAC uses 3 transformer:



http://www.parasound.com/vintage/dac1000.php

Power Supplies:
3 separate transformers for digital; each analog channel

If you wanna go more extreme of course I can do more for you - like disecting the DAC and use 1 transformer to supply for the digital sections and 1 more for the analog sections.

Even more crazy is to employ a balanced isolation trans infront of each of the 2 (above) transformers - so all in all your DAC uses 4 transformers... you see there are no limits to this engineering work, all up to your budget



cheers.

Puiyk, did you do a search on Internet of what other do to their DACMagic? Some time refer to what other do will give you idea what should be done and what budget to spend.
Here I found a useful linkhttp://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/40594-dacmagic-mods-4.html

Wikin wrote:Hi,
To be honest I think that's rather expensive modifications that you are being quoted.
For this DAC with new external power supply, Tent Labs low PPM clock module, new opamps and changing critical caps in the signal paths; I should be able to do it for RM 1.2K all in all.

cheers.

Wikin how do I contact u to get the aforesaid mods, I take ur advise as what u have say more audiophiles grade mod may not necessary turn out to be good, it may over do it.

Hi Puiy,

Ever manage to check out something at Audio-GD? At their basic DAC model, it basically could out do all the mod you can think of above.

And they are quite cheap considering the components being used inside~

adrian4454 wrote:Hi Puiy,

Ever manage to check out something at Audio-GD? At their basic DAC model, it basically could out do all the mod you can think of above.

And they are quite cheap considering the components being used inside~

Thanks Adrian for the useful information.

puiyk1973 wrote:

Wikin wrote:Hi,
To be honest I think that's rather expensive modifications that you are being quoted.
For this DAC with new external power supply, Tent Labs low PPM clock module, new opamps and changing critical caps in the signal paths; I should be able to do it for RM 1.2K all in all.

cheers.

Wikin how do I contact u to get the aforesaid mods, I take ur advise as what u have say more audiophiles grade mod may not necessary turn out to be good, it may over do it.

Good morning, you can contact me at: zero 12 two 83 nine 143

cheers.

Well our friend decided to change DAC rather than modify;
anyways just for the record I think this mod is by far should be the best.
It by passes all opamps and taps the music direct from the DAC.
I've done similar job to my DCX2496. Believe me it's a very good mod. Music flows!

Wikin, I m very confusing and in the middle of no way........hmmmmm Is this ththe same output transformer u were mentioned for the mods ..dual mono design?

puiyk1973 wrote:Wikin, I m very confusing and in the middle of no way........hmmmmm Is this ththe same output transformer u were mentioned for the mods ..dual mono design?

Hi, yes this is the dual mono design that I mentioned. Good transformers always have that nice midrange bloom and clarity which capacitors lack.



cheers.

Instead of trade in, i just retain this DAC and send it to wikin for the output transfomer to be installed as claim the most noticeable and effective mods to improve sound quality as find on net by many users, aiya...my wallet hurts.....

Hi Pui,
Here's a short update on the progress of your DAC.
Mods on the DAC is 80% done.

It's singing with the new Lundahl output transformer (bypassing all the opamps) but still with the original power supply (as I'm awaiting for the transformer to be delivered tomorrow). Analog signal linkage to the transformer and RCA/ Balanced connector is using pure silver wire from Vacuumstate and silver solder using Cardas quad-eutectic.
8 caps on the left and right DAC changed from regular ones to OSCON.



Not to brag or anything, because I'm used to the sounds of highly modified equipments that provides good transparency with natural tone, I just can't believe (no pun intended) that the original DAC Magic sounded dreadful. It's just too coloured with grain for my taste.

The DAC is now totally transformed to produce a holographic and highly detailed sound coupled with a good natural tone. Vocal sibilance sounds right. Best part is that the bass seems to go one octave lower.

One mod that I did extra for you is to add a flip switch at the rear panel to allow you to select whether you want to use RCA or Balanced. Both of these outputs are directly connected to the Lundahl transformer. There are totally no opamps in the signal path for both RCA and Balanced outputs. Yippee !

cheers.

Wikin thank for the update and it look very neat and tidy. Give it time to run it I believe it should sound even better. Continue enjoying ur fine work and have a nice weekend accompanies this little bro cheers

Thanks friend !

For the benefit of other people in this forum who is interested to perform the surgery themselves, here's how it's connected. I kid you not, it sounds really good this way.




cheers.

Wikin it look very simple job from the diagram, but i believe its involve lots of effort to remove the opamp, cap and others electronic to house the transformer. As can see from the update u show me as compare to the original circuit i search from net. Those opamps, caps and other electronics are very small, perhaps only a skillful pro with electronic knowledge background would know how to clean up the unnecessary electronics. It may look easy from the outset, however, i believe my friend has spend amble of time figure out the best way for the transformation. i salute u even though we have not met ( i only came to know wikin on the 2nd post reply from him for this particular forum i posted), but i do feel ur passion toward music.

* i m not here to "angkat wikin kaki"

puiyk1973,
Please give us a report on its sonic performance once you have the unit back.
Also what is the damage. Trust the ROI would be good.

Wikin

How's the bass slam and response vs using an active tube output stage?

Dix,
While I've not compared apples to apples i.e. same DAC and connect transformer vs. tube stage to compare; somehow I like the sound better with a transformer coupled DAC (and using a tube preamp) more than a DAC+tube stage (connected to a tube preamp).
Their bass quality is different. Transformer coupled bass has more balls as though the listener is being hit by a large heavy vehicle - wherelse bass from a tube stage coupled DAC has lesser impact/ momentum towards the listener even though both bass are travelling at the same speed. So it's not about the speed - both can be the same; it's the mass that hits the listener. One feels heavier than the other.

cheers.

DrWho wrote:puiyk1973,
Please give us a report on its sonic performance once you have the unit back.
Also what is the damage. Trust the ROI would be good.

Wikin is still working on building a new power transformer replacing the stock transformer. Ultimately, it will give boost the performance... so i m waiting for it.

Damages...hmm, to me, every hobby is a potential damages in term of "financially", but if the damage could ultimately be translated to a joyful one, i think those painful damages could be heal easily. Anyway, i m ready to be informed of the damage soon heeee.

Wikin bro, update update, what the process.... heee itchy to know

Hi there bro, I was working whole day on your power supply (I'm on leave hah hah) and manage to complete it.



That's an 80VA Nuvotem transformer and i've installed a basic X rated cap on the mains to filter out some noise. The output is now 12v 6A; so it's 4x higher that the original which was 12v 1.5A.

Just had a listen briefly and it seems the overall sound is bolder - slams are slightly harder than before. It's still very new so I'll let you run it in.
I would say the changes are much smaller compared to the output transformer which was jaw dropping.

One question bro, are you using an active pre ? If you have, then I think I will reduce the gain of the DAC by half so that you need to crank up your preamp more. It usually sounds better like that - we are not throwing signal away.

cheers

Wikin, I m using intergrated valve amp, so can consider with active pre. U do what is necessary to make the dac sound better, just do it.

bro wikin,

its look art and precious job, impressed

puiyk1973 wrote:Wikin, I m using intergrated valve amp, so can consider with active pre. U do what is necessary to make the dac sound better, just do it.

Ok got it.

Valve integrated these days have more than enough gain.

cheers.

microkernel wrote:bro wikin,

its look art and precious job, impressed

Thanks dude. There's more than meets the eye. You see that tightly twisted wire on the right of the PSU, there are actually 4 cables (dual 12v secondary running parallel) so the 1st pair is twisted clockwise and the 2nd pair is twisted anticlockwise - and then both of them are twisted together again. Some of those minor minor things that makes up hi-fidelity job.

cheers.

Wikin, is the power supply inlet IEC with fuse protection?

I think I will reduce the gain of the DAC by half

Wikin, could u elaborate of how u doing this? I just curious to know. Normally lay man will think that by put in a resistor will reduce the gain, thank you.

puiyk1973 wrote:

I think I will reduce the gain of the DAC by half

Wikin, could u elaborate of how u doing this? I just curious to know. Normally lay man will think that by put in a resistor will reduce the gain, thank you.

Hi Pui,
Here's the latest diagram of your DAC. Basically, the transformer's output stage is wired in parallel (instead of series) so the effective gain is reduced by half. With that, the driving power doubles up instead.
Yes confirmed I like this sound better.



Here's a the final view of the new power supply and a new 12v power cord I did for you.




All in all, I would say the sound is neutral and transparent. The treble quality is something special - it does not stand out like a sore thumb; but rather it's very controlled in the soundstage and delicate. So if you have a very warm system you might want to brighten it up a little bit. Midrange holography is very good indeed - playing vocals can be mesmerizing. I was listening to Amos Lee's 2496 LP Rip 'arms of a woman' - his lower vocal chord transparency and emotions can really give goose bumps. This track has a surprisingly low and rounded bass. This sound you can listen to whole day and not feeling fatigue.

cheers.

Hi Wikin, thank for the update and i guess the mod is reaching its very final stage, ur patient and passion to the work is much appreacited, i am now ready to do my part, ....pay day.. hee text me the particular.... hopefully i will get to enjoy it this weekend if possible....

Oops I forgot to post this pic as well.
All the silver wires are now properly twisted and tucked in neatly.



Ok let me assemble it up tonight and do a final sound confirmation before texting you the $$$.

cheers.

Nice work...a very tangible result. Anticipating a happy customer & good sound, enjoying the work of a passionate enthusiast.

wikin, how are the Nuvotem power transformer rated for audiophile. are they top of the pack or midrange ?

Thanks Mr. Admin.
For a moment I thought I would have violated some rules in the forum by revealing too much internals of a branded product.

cheers.

carz wrote:wikin, how are the Nuvotem power transformer rated for audiophile. are they top of the pack or midrange ?

Hi, well the transformer was selected more for 'fit of application' rather than audiophile. Pui needed a slim casing so toroidal was selected, and that model came with 4x more current which slightly exceeded my promise for 3x initially.

cheers.

[quote="Wikin"]

carz wrote:Hi, well the transformer was selected more for 'fit of application' rather than audiophile. Pui needed a slim casing so toroidal was selected, and that model came with 4x more current which slightly exceeded my promise for 3x initially.
cheers.

And I think its about easy and convenient availability too.. Novotem isn't found at 7/11 or other places just like that, especially at the price. Anyway, its an excellent transformer for suitable purpose. I use the 220VA, huge headroom.

Wikin wrote:

carz wrote:wikin, how are the Nuvotem power transformer rated for audiophile. are they top of the pack or midrange ?

Hi, well the transformer was selected more for 'fit of application' rather than audiophile. Pui needed a slim casing so toroidal was selected, and that model came with 4x more current which slightly exceeded my promise for 3x initially.

cheers.

Bro wikin, I hope the 4x more current transformer won't eat into my wallet heeee

Here's how the final package looks like.
Ready for shipment back to you.



cheers.

Like the admin, I too think this looks very good. I hope the OP, Pui, will post his opinions here once he gets the unit back and has a chance to listen to it properly.

WongKN wrote:Like the admin, I too think this looks very good. I hope the OP, Pui, will post his opinions here once he gets the unit back and has a chance to listen to it properly.

Thanks Wong, I sure hope Pui will hear the same as I do. He's into vocals and light jazz so it should do the trick hopefully.

cheers.

Wikin the final packaging look gogeous, especially psu look so handsome. Once again, thank you bro for the fantastic works. BTW, still waiting my new pro ac d28 ebony speaker (dealer expect arrival mid of oct) to partner with this dac, amplifier I might buy a display unit of sim audio i5 limited edition (very capable amp) but I will try this amp combo with my speaker and dac, then decide....presently my haberth 3/5a limited edition and melody h34s valve amp will continue give me hr and hrs of joyful music, until the pro ac arrive.

Wikin wrote:

WongKN wrote:Like the admin, I too think this looks very good. I hope the OP, Pui, will post his opinions here once he gets the unit back and has a chance to listen to it properly.

Thanks Wong, I sure hope Pui will hear the same as I do. He's into vocals and light jazz so it should do the trick hopefully.

cheers.

What you have done is something many more 'enterprising' enthusiasts would have done in our younger years when we are more daring with our equipment. While I can't speak for the transformers, the mod to the power supply is along a similar line to what I myself have done with a tube preamp I owned many years ago. Thereafter it was surprising but gratifying that when the manufacturer launched a later/higher version of the preamp, one of the improvements was to the power supply along the lines of what I did (of course they did it better la). So solid technical basis for DIY/turbo-charging an equipment will always be applicable and thus it will always be something useful to enthusiasts, especially when we are willing and able to do the DIY mods (we can always pay for someone to do it for us as well). And what better topic than this for our DIY forum ?

I hope to be able to read more of such threads, and learn some new things from them as well.

Item received and will fire up tonight.... very tempting...will give it a run in before i give my opinion (not a pro audiophile but just my own based on my music collection) hopefully one with this Dac may want to mod it like mine haa.

Initial audition of 1 hr was done last night, i play my usual female vocal music from chai chin and few other china audiophile CD, the vocal has this warmth, sweet and sexy (female vocal) sounding, sound stage is opening up, bass extended but not overly done, Detail (so so only, wikin is using silver wire, and silver wire take longer time to run in, hopefully it may improve). Generally it is warmth, sweet, sexy and neutral sounding which suit my music taste. I am still running in the unit......i will back to listening the same track after 7 days....haaa....my electricity bill is slight more this month

Now my system is in place with Pro Ac D28, Sim audio Moon I5 LE amp, Cambridge DAC, and Harmon kardon CD as a transport, speaker cable is Zu Cable st Julian, Interconnect is Aural Thrill Silver IC, Coxial cable is Audio Image. How does it sound? It is warmth, neutral and widening sound stage, bass has more weight and more tighten up (compare to my Melody Valve amp), vocal is sweet and slight forwarding (this is due to Aural IC), Treble is smooth, detail (i would say so so only as compare to opamp dac output). Generally just a sum up, the system combination is not emphasis on end of the spectrum at the expense of the other. This system would continue to serve me until such time if my financially allow, to consider a pre and power of valve SET set up.

Wikin, do u think a low jitter clock install on this cambridge would have improve it detail of the sound? Or should it be more appropriate to be installed on CD player?

*My Melody H34S valve amp and Harbeth 3/5A LE speaker is going into hibernation, too bad.