Gold Lion KT88 vs Electro-Harmonix KT88 tubes

Thinking of upgrading my current power tubes; Electro Harmonix KT88 (Supply together with amp) to Gold Lion KT88 (Matched quad) but do not know weather it is worth the investment to do so?

How much better the sound quality will improved with the Gold Lion? Anyone who has the experience, Please share your opinion.

I find the Gold Lion KT88 reissues to be quite good for my Mac amp.

Not sure how they compare with NOS Gold Lion but it certainly is an improvement over the stock KT88s that came with my amp.

Hope that helps as I'm quite new to tubes.

Where is a good place to find aftermarket tubes such as these ? I am curious to look at options (and prices) for 6550s and 6CG7s.

Received an email reply from TubeDepot.com, reply as below:

Gold Lions are a little nicer than the EH's, but similar. Both brands are made in the same location with similar raw materials.
The Black Sable KT88's are some of the best new power tubes around, very highly recommended. Here is a link:
http://tubedepot.com/bsct-kt88-sed.html
Here is a link that explains more about our Black Sable brand: http://tubedepot.com/bsct.html
Let us know if you have any other questions. Thank you.

RobA4 wrote:I find the Gold Lion KT88 reissues to be quite good for my Mac amp.

Not sure how they compare with NOS Gold Lion but it certainly is an improvement over the stock KT88s that came with my amp.

Hope that helps as I'm quite new to tubes.

The NOS Gold Lion is hard to find & the price is very expensive. The reissues version is worth to try but since it's almost similar to KT88EH so I think I will put on hold to change the tubes for the time being.

try EAT kt88 diamond tubes. i pay rm1800 for a pair and they bring my amp to another level. I have tried sovtek, reissue gold lion and GEC and EAT is the best. The GEC tubes despite its reputation and more costly than EAT do not sound that good. may be the tubes i bought from ebay are already pass their best. however i didnt lose much as i manage to sell it to another ebayer at a small loss.

all the nos tubes are too rare and expensive. worse still its hard to know whether they are nos or used one. personally i think reissue gold lion worth the investment as it cost around rm800 quartet. i havent tried the electro harmonix though. i stop trying after i found my EAT tubes. For anyone interested i still a pair of gold lion for sale. you can sms 0125579810 if you are interested.

The only thing if you're buying nos tubes from E Bay then there is always a chance of doubt on their worthiness thus their source is really important.
Yes they are rare and in fact some have even reached extinction.
While I still have access to hundreds of JAN GE 6550's (really NOS of course) still available from an ex retired US army officer from the naval base over there, the reality is that NOS will always sound better in every way than current production tubes and its sometimes the ' MAGIC ' in them that you can't tune by capacitors nor resistors in the circuit themselves. Have tried EH, Tung Sol reissues and various others but nothing comes close to the definition of sound produced by these tubes. Am not talking only bout these power tubes but also the input driver tubes. In fact I wouldn't be in tube gear if I had no access to affordable nos still possible today.

Reissues are a big disappointment even on the highly regarded Western Electric 300B's sold for very expensive today. The chemical composition of the plates and production techniques possible by formulation of the old engineers working in those plants are said have been kept at heart and lost forever.
Then again anyone really interested in quad sets of these green printing JAN GE 6550's can contact me, no they won't be cheap but yes they are guaranteed brand new boxed in original US military contract boxes.
012-3166655 tel/sms

Lamkochai wrote:try EAT kt88 diamond tubes. i pay rm1800 for a pair and they bring my amp to another level. I have tried sovtek, reissue gold lion and GEC and EAT is the best. The GEC tubes despite its reputation and more costly than EAT do not sound that good. may be the tubes i bought from ebay are already pass their best. however i didnt lose much as i manage to sell it to another ebayer at a small loss.

RM1,800 for a pair of EAT KT88, that is very cheap compare to TubeDepot that is selling at USD1,395 for a matached quad set.

http://www.tubedepot.com/eat-kt88-quad.html

No doubt, the EAT is the best but is really too expensive for me & with a quad set, the tubes itself is already over my amp price. haha.....

Unfortunately I don't have much experience with KT88's but I'm quite happy with other JJ power tubes of various types ranging from EL84, EL34, KT77, and 6L6GC. I think they're an excellent bet. Perhaps you should try JJ's since they're a reasonable price for current production tubes, can be quad matched and come with some warranty.

i regard the tube as a component so if i were you i will pay for the quad set even they are more expensive than the amp price. even you get an amp which cost almost the same with your current amp+upgrade tubes, i doubt it will sound better than the latter.

trust me because i am very daring to try on new things even though i lose a lot of money from it. my transparent cable musicwave ultra cost the same with the cd player i use but i think it is worth because i just couldnt listen to my set when i swap to other brand of cable. Its like what Dixchen said there is some 'magic' in those items that you cant tune by capacitors nor resistors in the circuit itself. Of course if you upgrade your amp or speakers it will bring your hifi to another level but it also cost more than buying the good cables itself and you still need a good cable for them to sound best

More so the component you buy need to suit your environment. I dont think the superb hundred thousands dollar marten cotrane speakers or german physics carbon speakers from the av show will sound good at my dining hall due to space limitation. It also depends on what type of music you listen to. I have alot of cds with vocal and simple unplugged acoustic music or simple paganini violin tracks. my current set up of flea powered valve amp and harbeth speakers already sound quite satisfactory so i focus alot on the room treatment, cables and simple tweak.

Hi Lamkochai,

I play in an open enviroment, use flea powered tube amps with harbeths as well.
I agree with you that the components have to suit the enviroment and this I found out the hard way after spending in excess of six digit on equipment and found I couldnt get what they say the equipment is capable off in reviews. Worse still, the system didnt even sound musical.

I am finding it hard to get drop in replacement 7320/E84L tubes and those I have managed to find on the net are different brands. I really dont mind spending the money if the results I get is good but there is no way of finding out. Found some reviews but for guitar amps.

Any advice on how to determine the sound characteristics of tubes?

rgs.

If I may suggest to Google reviews on the particular tubes in american forums and search sites. Just do random searches and el84 being a very popular tube, you will find many on the net.

Americans are pretty honest but critical people, I bought my tubes based on judgement by various people in these sites and they have come out to be pretty darn accurate.

Prices do indicate their rankings too and if you also search along what even tube world puts out on their site from various customers, you can get a pretty good idea too.

Just my 2 cents here, good luck..

review is review. you still need to experiment to know the results. the problem in malaysia is that you dont get free home trial easily unless you are very close with the dealer. it is more troublesome for penangite like me as most of the dealers are located in kl.

I find that the americans have different taste of music as compared to asian and especially japanese. americans have heavier taste i.e most of them like bass, dynamic and they like the system to be analytical with lots of detail. Whereas japanese put more emphasis on naturalness and balance of the system. Go listen to the system set up by Kondo or system tweaked by inventor of Harmonix (cant remember his name) and you know what i mean. The audiospace (HongKong tube amp manufacturer) even tweak the amp they export to u.s, europe and asian. The model and looks of the amp are the same but they change the bias and capcitor so that the amp will suit different taste.

there's no way to know what is best for your system other than experiment and experiment means money. you can start with some cheap and easy-to-get items (ball bearings, squash balls, fake jewels, coins, washer). More expensive way of tweaking are changing the cables, room treatment with acoustic products, shoon mook, cones etc. i will post the picture of the simple tweak i have done using home made item. other people suggestion and ideas are welcomed. i am very keen to do experiment as this the fun of playing hifi.

i cant help you much regarding el84 tubes as i dont have experience with them. i am more familiar with kt88, 12au7 and 12ax7 tubes.

Gentlemen thank you for your respective replies.

I have tried the net and have found some reviews but those on the E84L and 7320 tubes are hard to come by. Furthermore cant say i understand some of the terms they use to describe the results especially for guitars and whether their descriptions match mine. I will keep on searching the net but ultimately will just have to make a call. Trial and error but the 7320 can cost close to RM1000 for a quad set.

As for tweaks, i do use simple DIY tweaks at home. Those on the market can command a hefty tag and while they do result in some change, i am not sure whether for the better. I have heard some of the speaker cones from Harmonix and while they do increase the seperation and imaging (impressive audiophile stuff) not sure whther they would degrade the musicality of the system. A longer listening period will be required if i can convince a dealer to lend me some for a home trial.

I do look forward to pictures of tweaks from Lamkochai and dont mind giving DIY tweaks a shot.

I am in need of some help.

1. Besides the power tubes 4 x 7320, also need 4 x 12ax7 and 2 x 6an8 tubes. If i am to tube roll in stages, which set of tubes are likely to give the most effect on the sound? Its an integrated amp.

2. I got a 2 sets of quad tubes for another amp using 6CS7 tubes. These are for the input stage of an integrated amp. I actually need only 4 but got 8 as they were cheap.

The two sets of quads carry the following numbers on the boxes.

Set 1 - 79/79 - 79/81 - 81/80 and 81/81

Set 2 - 115/95 - 115/95 - 118/100 and 118/100

I understand for input/driver tubes. the numbers represent gain.
(a) why are there two sets of numbers per box eg 115/95?

(b) why do the two sets have such vast differences in numbers say 79/79 vs 115/95. The sets were from different suppliers. Do they use different equipment to test the tubes? Does the 79/79 tube have a lower gain compared to the 115/95?

(c) How do i balance the 2nd set in the amp? Is the following OK or it really doesnt make any difference?

Channel R - 79/79 and 81/80
Channel L - 79/81 and 81/81

Thanks.

to be frank, i never know whats the number actually meant. i just try to use the tubes with closest no. possible. cant help you much in that aspect.

as for tube rollling, i found that changing preamp tubes make more audible differences. i use mullard tubes when i listen to vocal and change to more neutral siemens or telefunken tubes for classical or orchestra musics.

a good power tube will give you seemingly more dynamic sound with tauter bass. just my 2 cents