Would you buy Made In China product ?

Just wondering how many forumers here would buy or accept Made In China (MIC) products ? MIC here means origin China brand.

I'm wondering do this Chinese really produce world class hi-fi or just a copy cat from the reowned brand like Krell,ProcAc etc...

Please share your thought.

there are some very good made in china products in the market these days.

try xindak, meixing ming da and shanling.

We had this discussion quite some time ago. The same concensus as sflam then. Most were perfectly willing to accept and even buy China designed and made products. My own sentiments then was that China should establish their own identity. I.e. instead of China Krell which would forever be a rip-off, it is far greater credit to the ability of the chinese designers if they sinply do a proper China branded amp, which will then be judge on its own merits without the stigma of being a 'clone' or 'rip off'. Plenty of good products there as China made DVD players and harddisk based HD players can attest to. Some pretty decent amps and DACs are also starting to come out from China.

Same goes for other countries like Taiwan, Korea, etc. For e.g. I am happily using a Taiwan made coil over on my Honda Jazz. Great value for money especially given that I don't give a shit about brand conciousness.

I started with a marantz av amp. Then switched to china made Soundstage. Then, switched to MIC Audiovega and now contemplating MIC Consonance.

So far, I have had no complaints with MIC.

cheers

I reckon majority of the hifi enthusiast unable to accept MIC products. I'm not sure if you agree with me that is hardly find a MIC equipment in a high end setup of a hifi "kaki". Not sure what is the reason ? Quality ? or "No Face" ?

If you think made in China product no quality, you simply havent listened to one.

Just like when I listened to so much western music, I didnt realise AR Rahman is so hot.

Just so much money have I wasted to replace so many things around the house like water faucets,scissors,hair dryer,speakers,computer main board,
shower handle,light bulbs,etc............

Sick & tired now with whats on the market these days.
Retailers of so many items mostly stocking MIC stuff.

I go all out to source stuff from mostly Japan & UK.

Had enough of all this!!!!!!!!

Am not going the MIC way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cheers & Shalom
teleman51

What's wrong with MIC stuff ? I am using Premtek for my taps etc and they are pretty good quality. Retailers are stocking MIC stuff simply because they are value for money. Of course if we have the budget, there is no wrong in going for brands from other countries. Just make sure you are really paying for better quality instead of paying extra for shipping, and brand name only. Same with other countries, including local or regional. For myself, when I was shopping for my new house a few years ago, my sole criteria then was functionality/design, quality and then value for money. My prized potrait-sculpture of the Lord Buddha for e.g. is from Indonesia but everyone who have seen it agrees that it is absolutely the best potrait-sculpture they have ever seen inside a house. Beats any potrait or sculpture even from famous artists from big-name countries.

MIC products may not be the best but certainly it's bang for your buck! if nothing else. However, in recent years there has certainly been some innovative products from them. In short, buy sound and quality not the name, not place of origin and not because of pricing. Releasing yourself from stigmas means the ability to try new things and experience what the world has to offer.

ngl9219 wrote:I reckon majority of the hifi enthusiast unable to accept MIC products. I'm not sure if you agree with me that is hardly find a MIC equipment in a high end setup of a hifi "kaki". Not sure what is the reason ? Quality ? or "No Face" ?

It is not wise to speak nor make general statements about the majority when there is in fact many here that DO have and use MIC products. "These people" however may have never felt the need to advertise their usage.

well, if its hifi products then we can get the same thing like yaqin for instance. but for house appliances like taps, shower handle, light bulbs etc, the quality may varies as double standards can occurs. for example, exports for australia market are much better than for malaysia market. simply because of the difference in currency..

Azri,

China made products come in many grades.
Especially for household items, in Malaysia, probably due to greed of importer and non regulation by the Malaysian Government, most of the goods imported from China into Malaysia are of othe low grade variety.

We are also to be blamed coz we will wld only pay peanuts for MIC goods thus all we get are monkeys!!!

thats my point, double standards. local retailer wants more profit thus imports lower grades from china. items looks good but does not last long as it should..

looking at the situation from the historical point of view, china is now at the stage that japan was at some 40-50 years ago. back in the 1960s, the japanese were well known for making cheap transistor radios which did not last long. but look at japanese products now.

s. korea went through the same 'learning curve'. in the late 1980s, i visited australia and the koala bear and kangaroo souvenirs were all made in s. korea. they were well known for making low-tech soft toys then. look at korean products now.

if china follows the same 'learning curve', they will make high-quality components in the next 5-10 years.

Shangling ( If not mistaken ) launched its tube cd player with the UFO like design a few years back and was a sensation in the UK dont remember the model .. blue light effect some more ..

I totally agree with VS126, it comes with few grades. If you after the cheapest, you cant blame the product, but yourself.

You need to have a keen eye and knowledge to "see" quality in a product. Good quality product cost more, that's the fact and not withstanding high cost mark up by reseller. Also, there is certain certified international symbol on it.

Meanwhile, our country inflation is not helping much either. A lot of time we complain, "last time, this item of the same brand is very good quality; good material count/weight, but it is very bad quality now". Well please remember, those day the money is "big". Now it is small.

sflam is correct, one day; Made In China will not be any cheaper than it is now due to impending international standard and improvement in quality. High quality component; doesnt come cheap. Please bear that in mind.

Goods made in China? Why not? They r catching up very fast . China tube r good, eg. Shugang, TJ they r really gud staff.

noodle88 wrote:Goods made in China? Why not? They r catching up very fast . China tube r good, eg. Shugang, TJ they r really gud staff.

Why not for me too.... I am using a China made tube amp and buffer without failing me at all but make sure the input current is not too high as they are rated 220V +- 10%.

I bought several kits/partial kits from DAC to power amplifiers from China/Hong Kong suppliers. Source from ebay/non ebay.
None have failed so far.

I thinks it depends on your money, MIC cheap and not bad in some product, not all MIC are not good, some good in their own standard. But the reputation still not at high quality brand like Japan or Western..but you can judge. The true is us, how we accept.

I tend to agree with VS126. There are many grades of the same product and only price separates the "boys" from the "men". "Cheap things no good and good things no cheap". But most of the time, we tend to fool ourselves into thinking that we can get high quality products for the price of teh tarik

Worst of all is to pay a small fortune for MIC clones, yet thinking that you have land yourself a BARGAIN .

To generalised MIC product in one sentence is not right. Look at the numbers of people there, the number of manufacturers available. Some are good and some are bad. The problem is getting to know the good manufacturers....

I bought a pair of rca interconnects by Xindak some time ago, for about RM700, ... not bad at all. A very smooth performer. Not the best cable around of course but for the asking price i was really very happy with it.

It was when i was researching the cable on the net that i found that Xindak has been around for a while now. They manufacture high grade wire, and capacitors, which are some of their core business. So they know a thing or two about cable. And they make decent products that stand on their own merits. They are made well, and can compete with products from any where else on the planet.

I think some of the better Chinese brands mentioned, like Shangling also, have good people behind the brand, and yes, the reviews of that Shangling cd player were spectacular. If i had the money, i certainly would invest in it. But that cd player is not a clone of anything as far as i know, it is a product that stands on it's own merits also.

Products like Ho's however, are cheaper clones of a known hi fi legendary product, and i would wonder why someone would want to buy it rather than one of the original, other than the obvious fact that it is simply cheaper. There must be some trade off, and if you were to believe the review of this speaker done by Stereomojo on line, you would find this trade off. This i would hesitate to buy. It may be nice to listen to in the beginning, but in time, my ears may pick up the short comings of the product, and before long i will start hankering to listen to something better.

Perhaps when i started my audio journey, i might have been more inclined to buy cheaper equipment, on a wing and a prayer, hoping for the best, as that was all i could afford!! But now, if i upgrade, i will aim to save until i could afford something really nice. So i probably won't want to look at clones, no matter what country they come from.

I guess what i am trying to say is yes, i would buy a hi fi product from China if the reviews are excellent, and it is pleasing to my ears. So, no, i'm not xenophobic with regards to hi fi gear.

Now food products from China, on the other hand, is a completely different matter all together, but that's for a different forum!

Bal.

Actually there are two aspects in this thread.

Firstly in terms of general product. Yes there are lots of china products in the market nowadays. Some of them can be dodgy but most of them are really quite good quality, good enough for most all uses. The truth is many of them are a godsend to normal people like us because they offer value for money, or more importantly, affordability. For e.g. I grew up using the tools my father had for this business last time - spanners, screwdrivers, pliers, etc. Now that I have a good set from SATA as well, I can clearly see the difference in quality. But then again, now that I can afford the SATA set, I can see how easy it is for me to slip into a state of arrogance and say I despise china made tools and won't buy them again. This I won't because while the SATA tools are better, the china ones are very functional, only not as solid as the SATA. But back in those days, my father could never afford SATA tools for his business. So if one takes the snob road, then I suppose many people might as well not live properly in this world because the truth is china made products offers us a value for money alternative and I doubt it many of us can really afford to pay for the premium of the brand names for all the necessities in our lives.

I myself have my feet firmly planted on the ground because I cannot afford to have super branded goods for everything. Nor do I want to spend my hard earned money on name only anyway. So, yes, I happily buy china made, even LOCAL made tools for e.g. retractable tape measure for use in my hifi room. Or a set of metric and imperial unit hex keys. Those are of brand SKL, buatan Malaysia. Very functional and cost 1/10th the price of a set of Stanleys.

But this thread was really started about hifi and A/V. In that area too, my stance still stands, that I will evaluate in terms of performance and quality and value for money and not in terms of name or where it's made. Before I bought my SVS sub, I was using a Soundstage sub, made in china, which is still giving me pretty good service as an occasional use sub to supplement my Apogee Centaurs.

Of course others have an equal right to their preferences and biases. It is, after all, a free world that we live in.

Hey i recall a tune ......M...I...C...K....E...Y MOUSE !
Loves it when i am young.....Btw it is made in US!

china products in not bad but they have not reach high end yet, we have to let them have more time to develop their products, they can consider them self a very new player in some products so their R&D team is still not fully develop but maybe another 5yrs or so they might come out with something which can consider high end products. why not we wait and see while we can still use some other country products while we wait.

Hifi from China have made a huge impression and stamped their mark in the audio world for quite sometime, discounting those EU brands now owned by the Chinese and made there too. Its just a matter of personal preference and countless reasons for people to buy their produce.
Its still too subjective and no definitive their products from best to worst.

I really don't have any experience in Chinese audio equipment but have bought some of their other stuff.
Sadly, these have not stood the the test of time and were quickly dumped.
About the only made in China stuff currently being used on a daily basis is
my microwave oven (Panasonic) and even that broke down just after the warranty period was over.Fixed it myself with the little know how I had.
As always I'm on the look out for vintage American or British gear,with the exception being 70's Japanese gear.And the Japanese also built great stuff for Marantz.Harman Kardon,etc

I really don't see myself ever buying Chinese.



cheers & Shalom

teleman51

Most of us will have Chinese made products in our systems without knowing about it Everything in my system was made in the U.S, Germany, or Australia - yet the valves in my amps are Shuguang, and I am pretty sure some resistors, transistors, and op-amps were made in China.

Actually if there are any integrated circuits, like in a CD Player for e.g., then there is a high chance it will be manufactured in countries like good old Malaysia, or Mexico, Phillipines, etc.

It is true that there are a lot of badly made chinese products around. That is a fact we cannot pretend does not exist. But it could also just be how much penetration different quality level of goods from china has in our country. And also in the context of the background that they are made. For e.g Usher speakers are made in China. SVS have their cabinets made in China (correct me if I remember wrongly htkaki). The reason given is that the quality of workmanship from china is something very difficult to get from other parts of the world, especially when we take value for money into account.

Back many years ago when I visited Japan with my wife, I gave her a modest budget to get a nice outfit from Ginza. Eventually it turns out my modest budget is way too modest and she couldn't find anything that LOW in price (talk about being humbled !! ). Later we visited Takashimaya and she saw a nice skirt and wanted to buy. Then being the typical woman, checked the label and saw "made in china". That stopped her decision to buy. Our friend (from Japan) asked her why and she said she didn't go all the way to Japan only to buy clothes made in china because there are plenty of clothes made in china available in Malaysia. But our japanese friend politely and patiently explained. That skirt she was looking at is a high-end branded product. Yes it is made in China BUT it can only be sold in Japan. It is made in china by the BEST clothes-maker the brand owner can find and in fact they felt that the quality is as good as any they can get LOCALS to make. Plus the fact that the cost is more reasonable. In any case, the guarantee comes from the japanese principal and they take great pains to ensure quality are up to par in line with the prestige of the brand. And their experience with the quality of the china workmanship is that they are very confident customer's expectations of quality will be met.

When I was in Shanghai a few years ago, I visited a high-end departmental store and looked at some clothes. High-end LOCAL chinese brand. The cost is way above what I could afford to buy for my wife. I asked a friend and he told me that those are the HIGH-END brands from China, but seldom exported.

The thing is often the level of quality is determined more by the LOCAL IMPORTER than the supplier. Meaning many times it is the local Malaysian importer who, due to cost reasons, or for competitive pricing (already some says they won't buy chinese, so if a china product is not dirt cheap, how to get sales), and so forth, will go for a lower quality product. The same supplier probably has lots of much higher quality product available but as life is so often is, quality DO come at a price. And the local importer cannot find a market for the higher quality products. So it is a viscous cycle la, lower quality products are imported for sale and people's perception goes lower when means even lower quality products (read : cheaper) must be selected or else no-one buys at all.

Seriously, one will be shocked at some of the really high-end products made and available from China. And reality works both ways. Go to one of the many 100yen shops (RM5) that are starting to sprout all over Klang Valley nowadays and buy some of their -made in Japan- products and then see how good they are and how well they last.....

I've seen and heard a lot about Japs brand MIC and Made In Malaysia (MIM) like Pioneer, Yamaha, Rotel, etc. Forgive me for being out of topic but was wondering if there is any Malaysian hifi brand MIM. I know there's Pensonic proudly Malaysian brand but there are not really hifi stuff.

There are a number of locally designed locally made hifi components. Two of the more prominent ones are :

1. Promitheus Audio.
2. Euphonics Research (now closed down already)

The two brands above are known internationally and Promitheus is still known, respected and sold all over the world.

Other lesser known brands which the designers did not want to expand outside of Malaysia includes the AIME (by Audio Image) and Frankie's series of preamps like the Pipit. You can even count in the JunPan preamp too. I am quite sure there are a number of other well made local products. I have a few friends who uses the AIME phono pre-amps and they find it to be excellent quality. It is used to partner some turntables that are so high-end that frankly, people will never expect.

This do not include brands that are overseas based by manufactured here (like Boston Acoustics). Some brands are owned by ASEANS or even Malaysian (like Euphonics Research above). For e.g. one of the owners of Krell is a singaporean by the name of Donald Wong.

Mr. Frankie the Pipit guy recently established a new web presence:

FV-Euroaudio. Sounds more like a car stereo brand, but hey.... whatever works!


http://fv-euroaudio.blogspot.com/2011/03/frank-acoustics-is-company-that-designs.html

samn wrote:I've seen and heard a lot about Japs brand MIC and Made In Malaysia (MIM) like Pioneer, Yamaha, Rotel, etc.

Rotel is MIM? since when? Anyway, those Korean brand TV's, Monitors selling like hotcakes is MIM and don't seem to hear anyone grumbling about it?
Well, I think this thread does point at China designed and produced audio products. It'll be endless if we lump in the likes of Haier and countless Japanese products (Daiso?) now manufactured in China.

WongKN wrote:

The thing is often the level of quality is determined more by the LOCAL IMPORTER than the supplier. Meaning many times it is the local Malaysian importer who, due to cost reasons, or for competitive pricing (already some says they won't buy chinese, so if a china product is not dirt cheap, how to get sales), and so forth, will go for a lower quality product. The same supplier probably has lots of much higher quality product available but as life is so often is, quality DO come at a price. And the local importer cannot find a market for the higher quality products. So it is a viscous cycle la, lower quality products are imported for sale and people's perception goes lower when means even lower quality products (read : cheaper) must be selected or else no-one buys at all.

Seriously, one will be shocked at some of the really high-end products made and available from China. And reality works both ways. Go to one of the many 100yen shops (RM5) that are starting to sprout all over Klang Valley nowadays and buy some of their -made in Japan- products and then see how good they are and how well they last.....

This is the problem we have as we always fool ourselves that we can get Mercedes for Proton's price. So, the local importers will do their best to import the cheapest products from China and sell in Malaysia. This created a wrong impression that China products are "C&N", cheap and nasty. In reality, you get what you pay for. Period.

The Chinese were wearing fine silk few thousand years ago when the rest of the world were wearing animal skins or leaves........

So, you think the Chinese cannot produce high quality products? Think again.

I reckon there'll be just as many people who'd say its C & G (cheap and good) but I think silk products is not a fair comparison to electronics we're speaking about. Silk manufacture is cultured over a millenium and not electronics so far. Anyway, thats not the point or purpose here. I think their tube amps (specifically seen here locally on sale) are not that bad, still useable and because people here do pay quite a princely sum from their hard earned money won't really want to complain much unless its really a lemon for some reason. Here we pay RM 30 -50k for a Proton but the same car buyer pays less than UK10k for this car, in otherwords, people will pay a princely sum for something supposedely cheap from China, so how to complain?
Anyway, I'm still wary of China produced CD's here in our local market. I think carefully before buying any because of there is evidence of illegitimate produce in the market, how to establish genuine or bootlegs is another story altogether.

Oh, China Hifi CDs. There are good too. Occasionally sounded overcook. But much better than our local printed "Best of...." or "Memorable...." Which sell at the same price or higher.

I do have other China printed CD "not pirated" Oldies. Surprisingly good sounding compare to what we can get locally.

In many ways, they are of better quality than us.

adrian4454 wrote:In many ways, they are of better quality than us.

To some point I quite agree. Our local cd's (not including many album re-issues) are quite highly priced in reality. The labels are stubborn and have been adamant on highest retail (unrealistic) prices possible.

One thing about many China made tube amp circuitry I've observed in the past, just don't like the quality of the resistors used, although they work but questionable quality. The terminal leads are much thinner gauge wire, useable but not optimum quality. I guess its a case of cost reduction or cut corners.

The cd recordings are suprisingly good maybe just a little bit foward. I would stay away from their not so well known brands as backup service and parts are a challenge if you purchase directly from Hong Kong or China through the net. You will be shocked or delighted by the price if you are in Canton, but of course those are 220v models. However brands like Consonance, Prima Luna and Audio Space which i have purchased locally are equal to European standards. If you purchase locally just ensure they are 230/240v models.

China has started to indulge into audiophile recording and are now releasing extremely high quality LPs and CDs into the market. At the moment, most of the legitimate releases are of hereto unheard of mainland China singers and artists though there are the occasional pirates. Actually I think a number of people here are already enjoying those CDs (and LPs). There is a pair of LPs/CDs recorded of classical chinese orchestra (playing old classical chinese music, mainly opera and using chinese musical instruments like er-hu and so forth). I have had the fortune of hearing these in some extremely high end systems and their sound quality seriously put all but the very best western LPs/CDs to shame.

For us asians, China is upholding our pride. For those who have dealt with or deals with westerners, even Aussies or New Zealanders, I am sure you would have met more than your fair share of the arrogant ones, and especially annoying are the (fortunately rare) person who looks down on asians. It is China who is sticking a finger up at them. Japan is too busy buddy-buddying with U.S. and South Korea is too busy fighting with North Korea. So it is China, and to a smaller extent India and Taiwan who are holding our asian heads high up for us.

cmboy wrote:I reckon there'll be just as many people who'd say its C & G (cheap and good) but I think silk products is not a fair comparison to electronics we're speaking about. Silk manufacture is cultured over a millenium and not electronics so far..

Hmm... how about their rockets then? And their ability to send a "Taikonaut" to space speaks volumn of their technological capabilities. I am sure the space programme has a lot of complicated electronics that makes the hifi electronics look like kindergarten stuff.

China must have the disipline to uphold their quality control like Taiwan. To be fair to China also, their goverment must contribute to their R+D to an extent, but then again, i dont think hifi equipments are their priority. I heard that Ushers R+D is fully sponsered by their goverment. With the big mountain behind them, just look where they are today in such a short span. China should look at Taiwan as a good example instead of pointing their barrels there.

123_rocketman wrote:Hmm... how about their rockets then? And their ability to send a "Taikonaut" to space speaks volumn of their technological capabilities. I am sure the space programme has a lot of complicated electronics that makes the hifi electronics look like kindergarten stuff.

Well, as if they won't use imported tried and tested electronics for their rockets, can't be all homegrown stuff. Unsure if they even fully trust their own manufacture. Only thing homegrown for sure is the taikonaut that sit in the cockpit.
If there was any disaster, I reckon there would be someone who could say..."there goes China's electronics or China parts failed"...

cmboy wrote:

samn wrote:I've seen and heard a lot about Japs brand MIC and Made In Malaysia (MIM) like Pioneer, Yamaha, Rotel, etc.

Rotel is MIM? since when?

Surprising isn't it. I had Rotel CDP in 1991 (forgot which model) MIM bought in Australia which I bought together Yamaha Double Deck also MIM. I was really proud to learn about this at that time. When I came back most Rotel sold in Malaysia are MIJapan not MIM. There must be reason behind it, perhaps economic of cost effective for Rotel company back then. But nowadays, MIC already.

At one time China was on the embargo list for many technology companies from the U.S., along with Russia, North Korea, etc. They are not able to get access to state of the art electronics, I/T, and many other stuff for a long time. So do give credit to the mainland chinese because for a long time, they have to re-invent a lot of things for themselves. This makes some of their recent acheivements very impressive indeed.

Nevertheless, having defended them so much, I will still have to point out that as far as I am concerned, they (the chinese manufacturers) still needs to prove themselves first before they can be widely accepted and respected. And no, they have not fully proven themselves yet. For that, they need to prove that their products are well designed, high quality, give good sound (and pictures if AV), and more importantly are reliable and safe (this one is often overlooked, electronics can catch fire).

Eventually I believe they will acheive that, just like how japanese products were originally considered 'cheap low class' but now, anyone trying to diss a product like the Audio Note Ongaku or Gaku On are out of their mind.

On a similar note, it wasn't that long ago that South Korean electronics products are considered el-cheapo and low-quality. But now even so-called 'giants' like Sony and Panasonic has to buy their 3D LCD panel from Samsung and Samsung is actually the leading competitor to Apple in terms of the tablet computer.

Never look down on us asians ! That's my motto !

WongKN wrote:Never look down on us asians ! That's my motto !

Not intending to spill more worms from the can but, true in general, but where hifi is concerned, I reckon anyone will look much deeper and there's lots more consideration before buying anything. But whatever it is, if one is happy with the purchase, that settles it.

Of course what you say holds true today. I.e. I do not have any made in china items in my hifi system, though I have made in Korea item in my A/V system. But the main gist is to not dismiss things outright based on just the country of origin because in the end, the person who loses most is probably ourselves. So what holds true today, the no made in china amp for e.g. can take on say a Soulution, I will not be willing to bet that no made in china amp in the future will never be able to take on a Soulution.

I bought 2 used items right here on our wonderful forum... from some very nice guys. One was a Chinese CD player, E sound, (short for Eastland sound). Built like the proverbial sh*t house, and extremely nice sounding! Paired it with a Buffalo ll DAC and that's my front end done. No more lusting for new silver disc spinners any more.

The 2nd was a Vincent power amp, the older 330 model. Not much write up about it alto most other Vincent equipment reviews are more or less excellent for the asking price. I bough it for a shade under 2K, and i really don't feel the need to upgrade anytime soon. It is a really fine product. Vincent is apparently German made in China, so there you go. Ridiculous value for the sound quality. And good enough to drive my difficult beast, the Magnepan MMGs.

I've got some Xindak interconnects that are really very decent for the price as well. Tried to flog them off here but there were no takers, so they are now very well employed upstairs in my wife's little sanctuary, in good company with a dvd player going into an Accurus integrated feeding Vienna acoustics Haydn bookshelves.

Would i buy Chinese? Already have!! But I'll have my eggs local please if you don't mind, and thank you.

Bal.

yes,i would buy MIC HiFi product.
I have couple of MIC hifi gear, it sounds great at ridiculous value, i am daring to say..MIC HiFi gears are everywhere now,even well across the intercontinental.
what-about our MiM(made in malaysia)home brand HiFi, who can name me a few that could stand up same height as MIC brand

We should supporting MiM product,but our government does not really give enough support to any bright ideas.