Brand new cds need to run-in too.

Brand new cds always sound relatively less open, flat, less detailed and less fluid when being played (in the same setup) for the first time.
It was realised many years ago and just haven't really kept that in mind. Cheers.

i think this is pure it's-all-in-your-mind effect. cds sound the same new or old.

btw, cds can age and become unplayable with age. i had a norah jones cd that started to cause the laser to skip and stop after a few years. i checked the cd and there was no scratch, but when i held it against the light i saw a small hole in the silver layer.

what could have happened is that the plastic parts were not sealed properly, air leaked in and the silver layer was oxidised or something like that.

Hmm.. this is a tough one. Maybe the degrading transparent layer of the disc does make the laser picking up more error or less... dont know.

But it shouldnt be the case, since the laser tracking and data retrieval have improved quite alot compare to the very previous generation. Or maybe a black color LPCD is the one that have all these gremlins reduced ...?

I have seen a CD which has part of its silver layer peeled off. I think the older CDs might have this problem. I think this CD is still being used as a display in 'that' shop (in SS2).

When CDs first came out, they were very 'pure', in the sense that the music was mastered pure because it was thought that we knew everything about digital music reproduction. Then later they started to introduce things like dithering, introduction of low level white noise into the music, etc, to make it sound more natural (it was thought that the human ear needs the low level noise floor to serve as a reference for 'absolute silence' or something like that (I remember scientists learned a lot about human learning due to our over-confidence about 'knowing' all about digital music).

In theory the OP's statement can happen if for e.g. an older CD's silver layer starts to degrade from use and some random noise are introduced into the sound. So it would be the introduction of a low-level noise floor into the music. But a degradation like this is in theory more likely to introduce very bad effect to the sound.

OK... maybe it's time for me to 'indulge' in another long post. Remember I was talking about the concept of MSB and LSB - MOST significant bit and LEAST significant bit some time ago ? Later today, or tomorrow, I will like to share what that concept and then my thoughts on its effect on digital music and bit errors. Then you guys might be better able to make a judgement on this thread yourselves.

For those who are interested to read about it, of course.

soonthas' statement is that cds sound better with age.

Brand new cds always sound relatively less open, flat, less detailed and less fluid when being played (in the same setup) for the first time.

my statement is that cds sound the same whether it is the first time it is played or the 2nd or 10th or 99th time it is played. (of course the cd must still be in good condition when played the 99th time).

Actually my thoughts are along this line; when the laser is focussed on the CD substrate (the silver layer), that point is heated up to a degree. This slight heating up over time may cause the substrate's physical property to change slightly. This may introduce random errors which shows up as some form of low level noise. Based on history and how low level noise first introduced into CDs many years ago (someone should verify thiis as this is what I remember but I could be mistaken) to make it sound better subjectively, this could be one possible reason why that phenomenon exists.

But it is nothing more than just a wild guess thrown randomly in the dark. In fact, even in theory, the MSB and LSB phenomenon works against this idea. So in theory, I fully agree that a CD -should not- sound any different no matter how many times it hasr been played. This is after all, the theory behind 'perfect sound forever', i.e. the 'forever' part being the belief that the substrate is a physically inert substance and so should not change or degrade -forever-.

In theory.
Based on what we know.

But then I think you guys already know what I think about our concepts about 'what we know' and how it often turns out that it is in fact 'what we DON'T know' instead.....

haha WongKN, I like the last sentence from u..

Anyway, I can't deny the that nothing took place. Because as simple as the old marker pen to outer disc ring trick does change the sound...
so the reflection(data back) back to laser itself may have some important interaction between the silverish and plastic layer.

haha, it is my version of WongKN last sentence, what we know, is infact what we dont know.

You know...My cd's and LP's which are autographed by the artist do sound better! how leh!.. I just insist it does sound better.. But if I were to scribble something with a marker pen on the disc, it sounds worse. !

Which reminds me of this interesting REAL experiment I read about. You guys know about the placebo effect right ? And the oft made statement of how the state of mind can sometimes be more powerful than any medicine.

Apparently there have been experiments where people who were sick are given pills and told they are medicine which will cure them. And everyone who took the pills got better at the same time. Then it was revealed that HALF of the pills given are actually sugar pills, only half are actual medicine. So half the people got better from their sickness simply because they -believed- they will get better as they have taken 'medicine' (and didn't know they were taking sugar pills). Apparently the sample size (number of people in the experiment) was quite big so there was no room for coincidence.....

placebo effect or psychoacoustic should only apply to man who cry while watching Titanic or other romance movie.~~

adrian4454 wrote:placebo effect or psychoacoustic should only apply to man for cry while watching Titanic or other romance movie.~~

Please elaborate.

it basically mean having way too much feeling in place, or imaging it; where u literally 'see' Kate Winslet appear in front of you.

doesn't it like hearing things that arent there?

To stir some shit, it's worthwhile to bear in mind the listening of music is a very emotional process....

That kind of thing do take place sometimes... but when we are doing "silly" tweaking to hear how good a particular time frame the music in guitar plucking, or how deep or tuneful the bass when the kick drum hits.. we are kind of devoid of such emotion.

What I am trying to say; placebo effecr/psychoacoustic hasnt got the better of me yet~~ still sane in another way Still trusting my ear~

You are a wise and lucky man adrian !