tube vs solid state sequence

Hello, audiophiles always follow this rule: "qin tam hou sek" meaning utilizing tube as pre amplification and solid state as power amp. Will it be as good if it is reverse "qin sek hou tam" or what kind of sound will it be?

Seek your advise. Thank you.

generally, it is easier to match a valve preamp with a solid state power amp.

while it can be quite difficult to match a solid state preamp with a valve power amp, there are exceptions such as joki using an fm acoustics preamp with his quad valve power amps during last year's kl intl av show.

sflam wrote:
while it can be quite difficult to match a solid state preamp with a valve power amp, there are exceptions such as joki using an fm acoustics preamp with his quad valve power amps during last year's kl intl av show.

Its a matter of he found synergy between the two (till maybe he thinks another better match comes along) and listeners generally agree or be satisfied that its a dream match.
For example, I can match some farnie brand A with my brand of power amp, thereon I decide or insist its perfect synergy for keeps, moreover don't give a damn what others think since its not subject to any public opinion or review at all. Its all a matter of primary personal peference and a audiophile's pragmatic approach to hifi or for any reason best known by the owner.

It is important is matching the output impedance of the preamp with the input impedance of the power amp. The ideal preamp will have a very low output impedance, and the ideal power amp will have a very high input impedance. If the impedance is poorly matched, the preamp will find the power amp hard to "drive" - so you may see volume dependent frequency response anomalies.

Typically, valve preamps have a higher output impedance than solid state preamps.

Also, valve power amps (with a valve input stage) also have a higher input impedance than solid state power amps. Note that not all valve power amps have a valve input stage - many have a SS input stage driving a valve output stage. Also note that not all SS power amps have a SS input stage - e.g. Pathos.

The ideal situation would be: solid state preamp with valve power amp, IF the only factor we are looking at is impedance matching. There are of course other factors, and I can not even begin to say that I understand all of them. I use a valve preamp with a valve power amp, and a SS power amp with good results. I think in the end, you just have to try it for yourself and see which one you like.

WongKK wrote:I think in the end, you just have to try it for yourself and see which one you like.

That is exactly what most audiophiles would go through some time or other in reality. Only few or the very technically knowledgeable would understand much of impedance match and its shorcomings if any. Go ask Joki how many preamps he's had or test drive todate and I bet there's countless others gone through the same rigmarole till they stop at their newfound best match. There's no real art in matching components, till some owner just happens to find this certain A+B combo works best to their music they play and enjoy most of the time. Say, this and that impedance match is best, but ultimately the sound isn't what I expected or just isn't good enough to my ears...how leh?????

To stir the shit-pot a bit, many old-timers believes in 'yat tou sai chong' (a complete suit), meaning matching pre and power from same manufacturer. The idea is both components are designed to match with each other optimally.

sometimes mix and match sounds better.

From my very limited experience, while mix-n-match can sound very good, ultimately many people went the route of matching pre-power from same manufacturer. Not to say there are no mix-matches but many people who used that actually eventually went the route of matching pre-power. I think if they are optimally matched (and this is the key), then matching pre-power from same manufacturer has a higher chance of giving best possible sound. Perhaps end of next month, at the KLAVS, I feel might be an eye-opener to this question.

WongKN wrote:To stir the shit-pot a bit, many old-timers believes in 'yat tou sai chong' (a complete suit), meaning matching pre and power from same manufacturer. The idea is both components are designed to match with each other optimally.

In my case, not really 'yat tou sai chong' even both from same brand as I was being told by you-know-who The coat is nicer than the pants perhaps?

htkaki wrote:

WongKN wrote:To stir the shit-pot a bit, many old-timers believes in 'yat tou sai chong' (a complete suit), meaning matching pre and power from same manufacturer. The idea is both components are designed to match with each other optimally.

In my case, not really 'yat tou sai chong' even both from same brand as I was being told by you-know-who The coat is nicer than the pants perhaps?

WongKN wrote:

htkaki wrote:

WongKN wrote:To stir the shit-pot a bit, many old-timers believes in 'yat tou sai chong' (a complete suit), meaning matching pre and power from same manufacturer. The idea is both components are designed to match with each other optimally.

In my case, not really 'yat tou sai chong' even both from same brand as I was being told by you-know-who The coat is nicer than the pants perhaps?

When I have enough 'bullets', I'll definitely get a PAIR of matching pants

Patience is a virtue.

For e.g. I waited 5 years before my 45 Westlife finally turned up.

WongKN wrote:Patience is a virtue.

For e.g. I waited 5 years before my 45 Westlife finally turned up.

Patience is a good thing but it is not easy to see one in the market.

On second thought, I might not be that patient after all. If I am, I will not end up buying so many things in this year.

Actually, to be honest, I really 'tabik' you several times this year. Every time in fact, when I heard of your latest acquisitions from your bro !

WongKN wrote:Actually, to be honest, I really 'tabik' you several times this year. Every time in fact, when I heard of your latest acquisitions from your bro !

Don't tabik me. I tabik you for the poison.

Now, I do get what you meant by skewed towards xxx. I begin to realise the shortcoming of the 'pants' or could it be my hearing or brain tricking me

I found it to be a bit edgy at times. Not very refined as everything is clearer and better defined now. The 'impulsive' purchase of the pre really did highlight a few things that I had never listen before.

It could be due to the details and the revealing nature of it. For now, I have to start putting coins into my piggy bank in hope that a 'pair' of matching pants show up.

On another note, I am trying out the tubes to learn more. Maybe I should pay you a visit at 'you-know-where' to audition the soon-to-be-sold Audio Research

Yes, that is the perils of staged upgrade. It is the most affordable and to be honest, the more sensible way. But this is the downfall. Who asked your ears to be so fussy ?!

I am really excited for this weekend where I shall be checking out the AVP for its music abilities. Though I dread wrestling with the cables, i.e. the thought of unplugging 7 pairs of interconnects and moving the TiVX, the SONY DVD and the Samsung Blu-Ray in order to carry the AVP up to the sound system for the test. I think I will try the Tom Petty on it as it is first, in the AV/HT system, to see if what the owner's manual claims is really true or not. 24/96 ? I really hope so. Unfortunately, been searching the net about this and it seems no-one has yet managed to get the AVP, or even its later version the AVP-2, to work with anything higher than 16/44.1. So I wonder.....

WongKN wrote:Yes, that is the perils of staged upgrade. It is the most affordable and to be honest, the more sensible way. But this is the downfall. Who asked your ears to be so fussy ?!

I am really excited for this weekend where I shall be checking out the AVP for its music abilities. Though I dread wrestling with the cables, i.e. the thought of unplugging 7 pairs of interconnects and moving the TiVX, the SONY DVD and the Samsung Blu-Ray in order to carry the AVP up to the sound system for the test. I think I will try the Tom Petty on it as it is first, in the AV/HT system, to see if what the owner's manual claims is really true or not. 24/96 ? I really hope so. Unfortunately, been searching the net about this and it seems no-one has yet managed to get the AVP, or even its later version the AVP-2, to work with anything higher than 16/44.1. So I wonder.....

I wish my ears ain't that fussy. For everytime it tells me so, my balance in bank acct will deplete dramatically.

That's a good exercise! Although seems straightforward, it still make you sweat like a cow. I am not familiar with the AVP. I thought you are going to buy a new a/v receiver. If you haven't, BUY lah!

He wants to buy Kismet 1st mah.. Buy ah!! Buy ah!!

Not a very costly investment even if to buy both together. At least for Wong Suk The 'chopstick' cost a lot more than that.

Wah, ganging up together to reverse poison me !

The plan is that if the AVP works well as a music DAC, then I will get an AV receiver to replace it in the AV/HT system and move it to the music system as a DAC. I want to watch movies with proper DTS-HD or TrueHD not the basic DTS track from the DTS-HD master, even if that basic track is of higher bitrate. The AVP is an older unit and do not have DTS-HD or TrueHD capability. Thus the test this weekend.

I will take it slowly. Will only decide after KLAVS. After all, money don't grow on trees. Except for a certain tree belonging to two brothers in Seremban !

Hi, I agree with all the sayings here.

But the matching of pre-power irrespective to valve + ss, or vice versa are very much also involved including the speakers which provided the loading that the amp is "seeing". The perfect impedance matching between pre and power that WongKK said provides essential matching requisite between the two. Having said that, if one is already in the know of the speakers that one is using, the perfectly matched pre/power means nothing in a constantly swinging loading of music signals. How our amp response in handling the dynamics of music signal happens to be a continuous relationship.

How the formula eventually ended up is very much a search in the dark IMHO.

Jo Ki

Jo,

That is what we intend to try it out since we (as in NSAG) have ss pre, tube pre, ss pwr amp and tube pwr amp.