Re: ProAc - discussion thread

[WongKK]

Hi joeling, I do not often check this forum but I read about your travails with interest. I used to run a D38 / Cary 805 setup back in 2006 but sold the entire system when I upgraded to my current setup in 2008. I wonder whether that dealer in M'sia copied the idea of matching a D38 to 805's from me I think I was the only system on Audiogon at the time with such a match! Hehe ...

I was somewhat confused when I first read that you had harsh sound from your ProAc / ARC match. They should not sound harsh at all, they should work beautifully together. Glad to see that it may have been your amp that had the problem.

Just FYI, my D38's were fully broken in at 200 hours. When I first got them, they sounded horrible - harsh and sibilant, just as you describe. By the time I sold them, they had settled to a typical ProAc sound - mellifluous, honeyed, and expressive. Hopefully, once your amps are returned, this is the sound you will get.

As for the Strain Gauge, I have heard them in a number of systems. I am good friends with the local dealer, and a couple of my friends have this cartridge. One of them posted a review on another forum:

http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/showthread.php/32234-Soundsmith-Strain-Gauge-system

What do I think of them? Exactly as he said - they are remarkably revealing and transparent. Definitely worth considering.

[joeling]

Hi WongKK,

Thanks for th info on strain gauge. It is quite interesting. I am thinking of reviving my limited vinyl collection after letting it slip for the last few years. So much so that I am struggling to remeber how to set the thing up. I have a budget P3 with a Shure V15XMR cart. After I solve my amp & room problem, I will look into getting the unit running before making further investment in new hardware.

The local sifu has had his Cary for the last decade I think. He was using a ProAc 2.5 prior to upgrading to the current D38 a couple of years ago. He said he specifically asked for Ebony Veneer finish as it is supposed to sound the best. Had to wait nearly a year before the local dealer could locate a pair for him. Anyway, I think it is a good combo.

Anyway, I am still working on the room. Seems that I have overdone it a little. As an aside. realtraps work ! Smoothed things out & my software tells me on some occasions there are no more room modes !

However, I am getting a 10dB drop from 63Hz to 31Hz. This is unacceptable. My sifu tells me its the wooden panels that I have asked my ID to put up is killing the bass. I am going to rip them out to test this theory....

Regards,
Joe Ling

[WongKK]

Hi Joe, I regret going back to vinyl. I agree it sounds better, but at the end of the day, I have 5,000 CD's and SACD's and only a limited amount of vinyl. Now that I have already paid for the setup, I may as well live with it ... but if I were to start again, I probably wouldn't bother.

Some people say that AR has a dry sound, and if it is not doing it for you perhaps you should consider a switch to Cary. The CAD-211AE monoblocks should have enough power to drive your D80R's without raising a sweat. I have a pair of CAD-211AE's, they are beautiful amps

Good luck with your bass problem and don't forget to let us know how you went!

[WongKN]

Just a pointer about the issue of 'should I or should I not', with regards to going back to vinyl.

The most important question you have to answer is to first understand your musical preferences and needs. What kind of music and which era of music. The availability of music in the format you want dictates more than anything else, the medium of music you want to focus on, be it vinyl, CD, high-res digital, and so forth. The only person to make that choice is you yourself. And as a third party, we do not always understand another person's situation (and thus give the best advice).

For e.g. Donald Wong of Ultralinear's (a very famous person in the hifi industry in Singapore) prefers open-reel tape. This is because he likes classical and his is so 'powerful' that he can get permission to hang his recording mikes in the concert hall to record the Singapore Philharmonic's concert. So it is the issue of different horses for different courses.

For older music, from 1970s to early 1990s, there are lots of vinyl and we get fantastic sound from the best LPs available, better than any digital system I have heard. Classical too is best served by vinyl. But if you are a disco kaki with tastes that centers around the 1990s onwards, you should forget vinyl and play CD. Actually I also find many disco songs to sound fantastic on a well recorded CD. If you like non mainstream music, then high-res digital is the godsend.

One final example to push the point home. The most popular song amongst the young girls today is the "nobody but you" song by the Korean group Wonder Girls. This is available only on CD (and DVD). So if you want the song, guess what ? You have no choice.

[kp93300]

Hi Joeling,
I am interested to know what happened to the AR amp.
What is the fault?
thanks
kp93300

[joeling]

My dealer queried AR & they said something to the effect that there is noting wrong with the amp. They are high bandwidth products that are able expose any part of the weakness of poor recording of my system. So, either the recording or other components in my system. Of course, I already told them that I am using ARC preamp & ARC DAC...

My local hifi guru had the chance to listen to the offending amps at the dealer's & he came to the conclusion that I don't like the amps. Too analytical.

Anyway, the ref 110 sounds nice but I think still can be improved.

My friendly dealer is offering me a trade-in in full $ & to exchange for something else at no cost impact to me just because I don't like them (call it buyer remorse). Can your dealer beat that ?

Decisions decisions ....

Regards,
Joe Ling

[skydna]

Hello all! it has been a long time i dint posting here~
Currently i am planing to get a speaker stand for my beloved proac, but i had measured the height of the stand need around 30inch to make the tweeter near to my ear, what is the normal stand height for tablettes?
As i know there is a professional speaker stand manufacturer - ATS in Malaysia, i had talked to them before but they are truly wood believer.
In my opinion, i found metal always better in my system to dig out the details and dynamic which i am always looking for, and some of my friend told me sand filled speaker stand sound dead not lively at all, but i do think it is depends on filled material and how much filled.
Mind sharing your experience on speaker stand?

[WongKK]

Currently i am planing to get a speaker stand for my beloved proac, but i had measured the height of the stand need around 30inch to make the tweeter near to my ear, what is the normal stand height for tablettes?

You answered the question yourself Your speaker stands need to be as tall as necessary to get the tweeters at ear level. Exactly how tall that is ... depends on the height of your listening chair, how tall you are, whether you are going to put it on furniture or not, etc etc. Only YOU know how tall that is ... you can measure it yourself with a tape

As i know there is a professional speaker stand manufacturer - ATS in Malaysia, i had talked to them before but they are truly wood believer.

Nothing wrong with wood. Some stands are made of wood - e.g. Sonus Faber.

In my opinion, i found metal always better in my system to dig out the details and dynamic which i am always looking for, and some of my friend told me sand filled speaker stand sound dead not lively at all, but i do think it is depends on filled material and how much filled.

Be careful with what you are looking for. Hollow metal stands will ring. It is introducing sound which is not there in the recording. The best stands are either sand filled metal stands, solid wood stands made of ply, or stone stands.

It has been a long time since I owned a bookshelf speaker. I was a student at the time. I made a stand from bricks wrapped in brown paper. When I "upgraded" to a metal stand, it actually sounded worse!

[skydna]

Wow! thanks KK! your information is really helpful!
Currently i am in the junction of going wood or metal with lead or sand filled stand, do you have any comment on sound characteristic of both?
Thanks in advance!

[adrian4454]

Just seen your post. Been playing with stand for a short while myself.



I never really bother to do much with my stand where I've got it 10 years ago, only laterly when I did fool around with it on the sand volume, the speaker base, and the coupling device between speaker and stand. Quite an interesting discovery for myself.



Mine is a 4 pillar sand filling stand. 4 brass spikes.



IMO, fundamentally you should get a stand with a speaker sitting base that is of the same size or only sightly smaller than the speaker. Also, taller stand shake more than a shorter stand, but there is other aspects of the design that over come this.



the general reference is ear level with tweeter, but again u can experiment with ear 1~3 inches lower than tweeter. Try not to get an height adjustable stand. There are often not as structural solid compare to the non adjustable type.



Yes, overfill with sand can make the sound very focus and articulate. Also sound dead like your friend told you. Resident expert Jo Ki suggest not to fill beyond 70% generally. Fact is you need to experiment with it, there is no absolute figure; like he told me before, there is no 1 formula that work for all. Mine sound happier with 20% after trying with 50 to 70% filled.



coupling between speaker and stand is equally important. Blu tack, spikes, coin like flat circle all can break or make a speaker sings. Nothing is wrong here, you can even put felt to decouple them madly; as long as the final result suite you. Of course, if you want to get more potential out of your speaker, it is always to "coupled" it..



I never try lead before. If you ask me, I will go for the metal stand with filling cavity; it just make the journey of tuning or tweaking more variable~~

[WongKK]

skydna, I would do what adrian suggests and get a metal stand and fill it with something. The most important characteristics are:

- height
- mass
- rigidity
- resonance

Some of them are related, as adrian says. Mass affects resonance, height affects rigidity and stability. What you fill the stand with are different sides of the same coin - garnet is more dense than sand, and will give you more mass for the same volume.

[skydna]

A million Thanks to Adrian and KK! you two have really answered my question which i am looking for long time and i know what to do now!
All my speaker coupling use isolation spike is ready! May be i will get a pre lead filled 4 pillar stand and try

[BrAvO]

I am using the Proac Tablette Reference 8 with 28 inch, 4 pillars metal stands.

[roksancaspian74]

Hi All,
I have a pair of proac studio 150, bought way back in 90s. I am wondering if I let go now, how much is the current price? it's in excellence condition. Hardly got time to listen to music, only turn the system on once a week to warm up the system and the speaker.
Thanks in advance

[fizi]

30-50% off from actual price and of coz conditions
Proac is well known here so anybody is not enough budget to buy new will consider it.....the price is actually depending on how much u wanna sacrifice on it

good luck

[puiyk1973]

Hi all, good to know this pro ac thread. Just bought D28 ebony for a month, source is using pioneer pds904 as transport to modded combridge Dac magic, driven by simaudio i5 LE.

Initially, i use Melody EL34 valve amp, everything is fine but the lower freq is just too loose, cannt really hold it when bass slam is continuously.

Simaudio, mid range has a tube like characteristic, bass has more control, treble is smooth.

It is not an expensive set-up, but it sing music well to my liking.

[olive]

Proac D28 is base on transmission line design, slow but alot of punch.

Its good to drive with high power SS based amplication.Else get pair of tablette 2000sig:face:

[puiyk1973]

Proac D28 is base on transmission line design, slow but alot of punch.

Its good to drive with high power SS based amplication.Else get pair of tablette 2000sig:face:

Bookshelf speaker had its limit to the lower freq, i used no of bookshelf including tablette 50, it mid and high r perfect. To have a feel of its lower end, need to crank up the volumn in order to feel a punch, unlike floor stand, the freq across the board is just well present without pushing up the volumn. Anyway, bookshelf and floorstand r just 2 different league, it is not worth to compare the 2 especially the lower freq. Thanks

[wywong]

Olive,



Just for info, is transmission line design prone to produce slow bass compared to normal design?

[joeling]

Hi friend,

Upgrade to better front end lah. Your speakers deserve it (evil laugh)


For the record this dude already owns the king of bookshelves (not the tablette 50s in my possession now for the last 10 years). So, he knows all about them.

Regards,
Joe Ling

Hi all, good to know this pro ac thread. Just bought D28 ebony for a month, source is using pioneer pds904 as transport to modded combridge Dac magic, driven by simaudio i5 LE.

Initially, i use Melody EL34 valve amp, everything is fine but the lower freq is just too loose, cannt really hold it when bass slam is continuously.

Simaudio, mid range has a tube like characteristic, bass has more control, treble is smooth.

It is not an expensive set-up, but it sing music well to my liking.

[puiyk1973]

[quote="joeling"]Hi friend,

Upgrade to better front end lah. Your speakers deserve it (evil laugh)


For the record this dude already owns the king of bookshelves (not the tablette 50s in my possession now for the last 10 years). So, he knows all about them.

Regards,
Joe Ling

Hi Joe, new family member just arrived last nite, it is AMR cd-777, little bro of cd 77. Well built and a piece of modern art. Happy listening.

[Wikin]

[quote="puiyk1973"]

Hi friend,

Upgrade to better front end lah. Your speakers deserve it (evil laugh)


For the record this dude already owns the king of bookshelves (not the tablette 50s in my possession now for the last 10 years). So, he knows all about them.

Regards,
Joe Ling

Hi Joe, new family member just arrived last nite, it is AMR cd-777, little bro of cd 77. Well built and a piece of modern art. Happy listening.

Hi Bro,

Just out of curiosity have a comparison been made between this CDP vs your hot rodded Cambridge DACmagic ?

cheers

[puiyk1973]

Hi wikin i would say this two sound r very similar, I chose this cd player because it is using very old Philip dac and the way it built around this cd player with its six digital setting which I like it for one of it setting of non over sampling and up sampling, it just play what the cd is recorded. Unlike most cd playet on market which upsampling to 192k. (it bigger bro is even bettet with philip well known 1541 chip, but cant afford) And also it valve output. I did compare the two where cd777 give more on the Marco and micro of the instrument. Soundstage is much wider, but vocal is in par with cambridge, that the strength of lundahl transformer. Unit is still need longer time t run in for full potential.

[joeling]

AMR CD 777 - yes now we're talking. The chief was a long time DIY guru. I'm a huge fan.

I'm sure you will be enjoying this setup for a long time to come.

[Wikin]

Hi wikin i would say this two sound r very similar, I chose this cd player because it is using very old Philip dac and the way it built around this cd player with its six digital setting which I like it for one of it setting of non over sampling and up sampling, it just play what the cd is recorded. Unlike most cd playet on market which upsampling to 192k. (it bigger bro is even bettet with philip well known 1541 chip, but cant afford) And also it valve output. I did compare the two where cd777 give more on the Marco and micro of the instrument. Soundstage is much wider, but vocal is in par with cambridge, that the strength of lundahl transformer. Unit is still need longer time t run in for full potential.

Whoa friend, are you using this model?
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/amr4/777.html

That price is heaven and earth compared to the cambridge
Your cambridge was modded based on a certain budget, of course there's a slight short fall; but yet it still can hold a candle close to that AMR which says highly of it ha.

cheers

[puiyk1973]

Hi Wikin, lately, i m just crazy about this hi fi stuff...... No worry, my cambridge will still be used as my 2nd sets. Just to clarify on the statement that "this two sound r very similar", i was purely compare to solo vocal characteristic.

This coming weekend, few hifi kaki will do a round of comparison with amr and Cambridge, c how far is amr hold....

[hi5papa]

Proac especially tablette 2 or 3 are a very musical speakers, it can easily blend into the atmosphere ,sound BIG & smooth..vocal voicing very realistic..i love it ..

Its a very affordable audiophile speakers deserved a serious possession

al new Bee...pls grab this one..and it can last very long!

if you want buy Proac, pls look only buy "singnature",with better dynamic and drivers..resale value also high.

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