Vintage vs. new turntables

Note : there is a limit to everything. Action comes if it is exceeded.

WongKN wrote:Note : there is a limit to everything. Action comes if it is exceeded.

ok but the limit not be double standard .

Hi Fizi, may i ask you some question? Are you the type,

1) Loves to diy/tweek a lot...
2) Able to repair and trouble shoot electrical and mechanical issue..
3) You just like to listen to music
4) You loves to see the platter goes round and round and put some toy like your toy soldier or your toy car....

Well if you are 1 and 2 maybe 3 get a vintage and if you more to 3 get a rega..m
For your info asia sound is getting in the new RP1 said to be better than P2 why not give an audition..

Question 4 just came to my mind when writing this thread, it reminds me when i am young but question 3 applies then...

hoyhoysum wrote:

For your info asia sound is getting in the new RP1 said to be better than P2 why not give an audition..

Waiting for them to come up with the RP5, then tunggu to sapu P5s being traded by people for the new product. Hehehe...ah the fate of the have-nots...

Limit is usually to ISO standard lar. Where got 'double' standard one ?

kawan-kawan,

Other than Rega at Asia Sound, (been there, excellent service from Eddie and Michael, even belum beli/not decided yet) ada ape lagi showroom yang 'customer friendly'. With some time to kill, I went to my 'local' hifi shop newly open in Kota Damansara (need not naming names here) last Wednesday looking at lowest rung of a German TT make (not even asking about the higher-speced one).

Needless to say, one question one answer session with absolutely no interest to sell Not even a forced smile..... so the interest absolutely waned.

zeebee wrote:kawan-kawan,

Other than Rega at Asia Sound, (been there, excellent service from Eddie and Michael, even belum beli/not decided yet) ada ape lagi showroom yang 'customer friendly'. With some time to kill, I went to my 'local' hifi shop newly open in Kota Damansara (need not naming names here) last Wednesday looking at lowest rung of a German TT make (not even asking about the higher-speced one).

Needless to say, one question one answer session with absolutely no interest to sell Not even a forced smile..... so the interest absolutely waned.

if your timing is good, you might actually bump into Michael there.... he has "migrated" over from ASia sound already.

One Micheal here, another Micheal there, maybe very soon some Michell, maybe Michelle...mungkin Michelle turntable ada ah?.. Could be in future some Mr Lin selling Linn...
Hahah to Bolehwood!.

You can go over to Audio Image. They have a range of turntables there, from reasonably priced to unreasonably priced !

WongKN wrote:You can go over to Audio Image. They have a range of turntables there, from reasonably priced to unreasonably priced !

Thanks, just googled the location, may do so this weekend..

Lately I've taken a liking to the quirky looks of the picture frame plinth and flower petal platter of the Rega P7. Not sure how much a P7 costs but how would it fare against a legendary classic like the Linn LP-12?

Or should I just maxx out my Thorens TD150II with mods and a new arm and cartridge?

Of the 3, the LP12 would give you the best sound. Also with the biggest potential for upgrade. Just limited by how deep your pocket is.

yeah..
honestly choose lp12 and thoren more then rega.

Was really hoping the P7 would be outstanding. Really like the radical looks. That crazy looking platter looks like it would really make the thing sound good.

Well anyway, I'll just keep the TD150 then and maybe install a semi-expensive cartridge like a Shure V15 perhaps.

Actually I am not sure between Thorens TD150 and Rega P7. Maybe other forumers might have more relevant and actual experience with them. But the LINN LP12 did not get its fearsome reputation as one of the top TTs in history for no reason. It is not perfect, especially in the bass area but that thing is so established and there is a very clearly upgrade path which takes you VERY high. The final configuration LP12 with Trampolin, Lingo, Ekoz arm and a high end catridge, from what I have read, really do deliver a sonic quality that allows it to compete against the big guys without embarassment, eventhough it won't be the winner in all cases. IMHO, you need to go to TTs like Oracle Delphi, Clearaudio Reference, etc before you establish a clear superiority. I apologise to Rega fans but I am afraid I do not feel the P7 is up to that level yet, though from limited listening, I DO feel it is an excellent turntable in its own right.

Wait till you hear VPI Classic ....

WongKN wrote:Actually I am not sure between Thorens TD150 and Rega P7. Maybe other forumers might have more relevant and actual experience with them. But the LINN LP12 did not get its fearsome reputation as one of the top TTs in history for no reason. It is not perfect, especially in the bass area but that thing is so established and there is a very clearly upgrade path which takes you VERY high. The final configuration LP12 with Trampolin, Lingo, Ekoz arm and a high end catridge, from what I have read, really do deliver a sonic quality that allows it to compete against the big guys without embarassment, eventhough it won't be the winner in all cases. IMHO, you need to go to TTs like Oracle Delphi, Clearaudio Reference, etc before you establish a clear superiority. I apologise to Rega fans but I am afraid I do not feel the P7 is up to that level yet, though from limited listening, I DO feel it is an excellent turntable in its own right.

but i side by side lp12 vahlala 2gn board and ittok arm vs technic sl1200m2 sme v arm and power supply ..became suprise . try it. is true

hazy wrote:but i side by side lp12 vahlala 2gn board and ittok arm vs technic sl1200m2 sme v arm and power supply ..became suprise . try it. is true

And the surprise being? Pray tell kind sir of great wealth.

WongKN wrote:Actually I am not sure between Thorens TD150 and Rega P7. Maybe other forumers might have more relevant and actual experience with them. But the LINN LP12 did not get its fearsome reputation as one of the top TTs in history for no reason. It is not perfect, especially in the bass area but that thing is so established and there is a very clearly upgrade path which takes you VERY high. The final configuration LP12 with Trampolin, Lingo, Ekoz arm and a high end catridge, from what I have read, really do deliver a sonic quality that allows it to compete against the big guys without embarassment, eventhough it won't be the winner in all cases. IMHO, you need to go to TTs like Oracle Delphi, Clearaudio Reference, etc before you establish a clear superiority. I apologise to Rega fans but I am afraid I do not feel the P7 is up to that level yet, though from limited listening, I DO feel it is an excellent turntable in its own right.

Well, i'm already kinda broke after my last adventure into digital exotica. That souped up LP12 will cost how much? Hmmm... Maybe just a standard LP12 and work on it when budget allows. Just like buying a clunker BMW and plonking in a V8 when budget allows. Would a standard LP12 with a ok cartridge like a Sure V15 or Audio Technica AT440ML beat the Rega P7 you think?

bassraptor wrote:Wait till you hear VPI Classic ....

Say my good man, at the recent AV show at the Marriott, Audiomatic had a VPI of some sort on demo. Was that a scout or a classic? It sure sounded fine.

bimmerman wrote:

WongKN wrote:Actually I am not sure between Thorens TD150 and Rega P7. Maybe other forumers might have more relevant and actual experience with them. But the LINN LP12 did not get its fearsome reputation as one of the top TTs in history for no reason. It is not perfect, especially in the bass area but that thing is so established and there is a very clearly upgrade path which takes you VERY high. The final configuration LP12 with Trampolin, Lingo, Ekoz arm and a high end catridge, from what I have read, really do deliver a sonic quality that allows it to compete against the big guys without embarassment, eventhough it won't be the winner in all cases. IMHO, you need to go to TTs like Oracle Delphi, Clearaudio Reference, etc before you establish a clear superiority. I apologise to Rega fans but I am afraid I do not feel the P7 is up to that level yet, though from limited listening, I DO feel it is an excellent turntable in its own right.

Well, i'm already kinda broke after my last adventure into digital exotica. That souped up LP12 will cost how much? Hmmm... Maybe just a standard LP12 and work on it when budget allows. Just like buying a clunker BMW and plonking in a V8 when budget allows. Would a standard LP12 with a ok cartridge like a Sure V15 or Audio Technica AT440ML beat the Rega P7 you think?

Yes in mm line
Lp12 , v15
Thorens 160 sme 3009 v15
thoren 125 sme 3009 v15
all can beat rega p7 or p9 . that my experiance . sorry rega fan .
If u think p7 can beat it , try praying the kind sir .

bimmerman wrote:

bassraptor wrote:Wait till you hear VPI Classic ....

Say my good man, at the recent AV show at the Marriott, Audiomatic had a VPI of some sort on demo. Was that a scout or a classic? It sure sounded fine.

Wasn't there so can't say .. But if it looked big, with wood plinth, then Classic ...

Just to intrude about Rega arm and Shure V15 type cartridge. From my exp, its not a good match if its supposed to track at 1gram+ VTF. Yes, it'll play but not an ideal compliance.

bassraptor wrote:

bimmerman wrote:

bassraptor wrote:Wait till you hear VPI Classic ....

Say my good man, at the recent AV show at the Marriott, Audiomatic had a VPI of some sort on demo. Was that a scout or a classic? It sure sounded fine.

Wasn't there so can't say .. But if it looked big, with wood plinth, then Classic ...

Does yours suck ? Oops, err..., I meant to ask if your VPI Classic is the model with the vacumn platter

bimmerman wrote:

WongKN wrote:Actually I am not sure between Thorens TD150 and Rega P7. Maybe other forumers might have more relevant and actual experience with them. But the LINN LP12 did not get its fearsome reputation as one of the top TTs in history for no reason. It is not perfect, especially in the bass area but that thing is so established and there is a very clearly upgrade path which takes you VERY high. The final configuration LP12 with Trampolin, Lingo, Ekoz arm and a high end catridge, from what I have read, really do deliver a sonic quality that allows it to compete against the big guys without embarassment, eventhough it won't be the winner in all cases. IMHO, you need to go to TTs like Oracle Delphi, Clearaudio Reference, etc before you establish a clear superiority. I apologise to Rega fans but I am afraid I do not feel the P7 is up to that level yet, though from limited listening, I DO feel it is an excellent turntable in its own right.

Well, i'm already kinda broke after my last adventure into digital exotica. That souped up LP12 will cost how much? Hmmm... Maybe just a standard LP12 and work on it when budget allows. Just like buying a clunker BMW and plonking in a V8 when budget allows. Would a standard LP12 with a ok cartridge like a Sure V15 or Audio Technica AT440ML beat the Rega P7 you think?

An LP12 with the full works is DISGUSTINGLY expensive. But you did ask about sound quality only so I left out the money part But one of the advantage of the LP12, is that it can be incrementally upgraded and each upgrade brings the sound quality higher and higher. Alternately, you can also 'f' all these upgrade path nonsense and go straight for one of those Roksan Xerxes, Oracle Delphi 4 or 5, Goldmund Studio, etc. With reminds me, there's a pretty good selection of used (traded-in) TT at Audio Image. All of the above including a Nottingham TT.

bassraptor wrote:

bimmerman wrote:

bassraptor wrote:Wait till you hear VPI Classic ....

Say my good man, at the recent AV show at the Marriott, Audiomatic had a VPI of some sort on demo. Was that a scout or a classic? It sure sounded fine.

Wasn't there so can't say .. But if it looked big, with wood plinth, then Classic ...

advantage ....can put small screw drive . stylus solution , record brusher ,cartriges aligment and anything errrr..........heeee
some people like big plinth and heavy platter ...
do u see XL Kuzma Stabi ....So big Platter ....and bearing .then chasis ...ermmm.tq

Hmmm... Audio Image... Don't wanna go there. One wrong turn and I'll walk away with my credit cared maxxxed out again. I'm not in KL at the moment luckily... But now I have bigger problems to worry about, like fighting the urge to go to Adelphi. Arrrrrgh! It sucks to be poor!!!

the TD 150 can sound really good if its just set up properly and with a decent cartridge. Problem is, the Tp13A arm doesnt really quite follow the Baerwald geometry, the headshell fitting is too short. So some modification would be required.

Otherwise, SME arm is also a good pairing with TD150. But "not original" anymore .


But the basic platter and chassis suspension system of the TD150 will beat any modern Rega today. Hazy sure will agree on this one.

mugenfoo wrote:the TD 150 can sound really good if its just set up properly and with a decent cartridge. Problem is, the Tp13A arm doesnt really quite follow the Baerwald geometry, the headshell fitting is too short. So some modification would be required.

Otherwise, SME arm is also a good pairing with TD150. But "not original" anymore .


But the basic platter and chassis suspension system of the TD150 will beat any modern Rega today. Hazy sure will agree on this one.

Comfrim bro . i agree

bimmerman wrote:Hmmm... Audio Image... Don't wanna go there. One wrong turn and I'll walk away with my credit cared maxxxed out again. I'm not in KL at the moment luckily... But now I have bigger problems to worry about, like fighting the urge to go to Adelphi. Arrrrrgh! It sucks to be poor!!!

Maxed out credit card ? What did you buy the last time ? But you can't don't go there. There are lots of great used TTs there crying out for your name la !

I heard Adelphi might be safer nowadays since apparently a number of the hifi shops has moved out already. Is that right ?

The Nottingham TT was playing at Audio Image just now. Nice sound !!! In between songs, it was calling out your name !

Oooooh,... Mr WongKN, you're makin' me dizzy! I'm getting a bit of a deja vu moment here... Last I remember, it was your voice that guided me into the evil world of digital exotica. I'm still paying for that last episode you know and i'm still missing another vital component to make my digital complete. Still can't find that silver spinner to complement the processor. And when I find it, i'll surely be ruined. And now analogue? Nooooo! Don't wanna fall into that trap again.

But lucky for me I've got Mugenfoo to rescue me this time. What's that you say Mugen? TD150 good enough to take on the Regas? Cool! Maybe just some tonearm cabling for that Baerwald in-compliant Tp13 and a Shure V15 this time then. Screw Baerwald, I'm with Stevenson.

BTW, went to Adelphi. Not tempted at all! Must be that crazy strong Sing$. Makes toilet paper out of the Ringgit. Really not worth buying anything in Singapore these days.

bimmerman wrote:
Say my good man, at the recent AV show at the Marriott, Audiomatic had a VPI of some sort on demo. Was that a scout or a classic? It sure sounded fine.

it was a Euro Audio Team Forte S turntable.

sflam wrote:

bimmerman wrote:
Say my good man, at the recent AV show at the Marriott, Audiomatic had a VPI of some sort on demo. Was that a scout or a classic? It sure sounded fine.

it was a Euro Audio Team Forte S turntable.

new competitor i think from slovakia ..not bad looking , sound and price ??

bimmerman wrote:
But lucky for me I've got Mugenfoo to rescue me this time. What's that you say Mugen? TD150 good enough to take on the Regas? Cool! Maybe just some tonearm cabling for that Baerwald in-compliant Tp13 and a Shure V15 this time then. Screw Baerwald, I'm with Stevenson.

Actually the Thorens is not really good anymore.. ahem ahem ... so , can i buy it off you for RM200 ?

mugenfoo wrote:

bimmerman wrote:
But lucky for me I've got Mugenfoo to rescue me this time. What's that you say Mugen? TD150 good enough to take on the Regas? Cool! Maybe just some tonearm cabling for that Baerwald in-compliant Tp13 and a Shure V15 this time then. Screw Baerwald, I'm with Stevenson.

Actually the Thorens is not really good anymore.. ahem ahem ... so , can i buy it off you for RM200 ?

hey mugen ! i dah cop 1st rm 201 .00 ehem ehem
bimmer yours p7 drife broooooo ..ehem ehem
heeeeeeeeeee

i bantah balik your cop dgn offer RM205 !!

mugenfoo wrote:i bantah balik your cop dgn offer RM205 !!

u take platter i take body and motor ...half2
oraite keh keh keh.

fizi ,,whatever some vintage turntable still win...........yeah
right mugen ? ehem ...ehem

vintage is analog ....analog is vintage .....

ok, i post kat ebay, you pigi cop kat sana. price murah je, cuma us$1 starting bid. tapi price dah capai us$355 skrang. happy bidding

bimmerman wrote:ok, i post kat ebay, you pigi cop kat sana. price murah je, cuma us$1 starting bid. tapi price dah capai us$355 skrang. happy bidding

maby mugen dah start biding. i still fine where are u post .......bimmer ( slowtalk belakang urs 150 amacam )

usd150 mana cukup ? bimmerman want to buy Oracle Delphi 5 lar. Tambah at least satu kosong lagi bolih la !!

hazy wrote:

mugenfoo wrote:i bantah balik your cop dgn offer RM205 !!

u take platter i take body and motor ...half2
oraite keh keh keh.

fizi ,,whatever some vintage turntable still win...........yeah
right mugen ? ehem ...ehem

vintage is analog ....analog is vintage .....

Bro hazy - waiting to collect this TT yeahhhhh ...

http://www.elitestereo.netfirms.com/turntable.htm

WongKN wrote:usd150 mana cukup ? bimmerman want to buy Oracle Delphi 5 lar. Tambah at least satu kosong lagi bolih la !!

Ok, kepada sesiapa yang berminat, sila hubungi ajen saya Encik Wong KN.

Err... bimmerman, you do know that my commission structure is based on the MAA model right ?

fizi wrote:

hazy wrote:

mugenfoo wrote:i bantah balik your cop dgn offer RM205 !!

u take platter i take body and motor ...half2
oraite keh keh keh.

fizi ,,whatever some vintage turntable still win...........yeah
right mugen ? ehem ...ehem

vintage is analog ....analog is vintage .....

Bro hazy - waiting to collect this TT yeahhhhh ...

http://www.elitestereo.netfirms.com/turntable.htm

yeke ....fuhhhhhhh campion 2 bro......jgn tak jadi .....kena turun ipoh ni.

Still using my 30 yrs old LP12 Pre Valhalla with curve LVV Basik arm. Thats what the expert advised me to buy when my first venture into HiFi. Dont bother to upgrade. Will continue play untill arm patah. Have used and damage a few cartridges, Linn K5, A&R C77, E77, P77,Rega R100,Ortofon??, Grado Ft... Now still use K5 body with AT95e stylus with Grado Black as spare. Sometime hear noise frm LP12. Could be Cicak.....under the plinth.

the LP12 is a very good design. But many many modern TTs have since surpassed the LP12 as it is the nature of things to be always be improved over time.

Nothing stays "the best in the world" for long as boundaries are always being pushed, new techniques, new materials, new art & science of building better stuff.

Its ok to enjoy vintage gear and appreciate them, but just don't get caught in the mindset that any one model can be the "final solution" or "best forever".

How la its sound...cant wait to test it hmmmm...Pioneer PL 90 hopefully can outperform new generation TT .heheheheh but not with hi end TT laa

I love vintage Turntables. They are so musical. Over the years, I have run the LP12, Oracle Delphi, Garrard 401 and even newer tables like the Rega P3-24. If I had the space, I would have have kept the first three (4th was sold) but only ended up with one.

Being obsolete, parts for the Garrard are always tricky and not as readily available as the Linn or the Oracle.

If you like amazing vocals and musicality, go for a suspended turntable such as the Linn + Ittok + Grado (prestige low output is good value) combo and it will mesmerize you for days and nights. Make you set aside a budget for a matching phono stage. One of the best budget tube phono is the Project TubeBox, adequate lushness + gain to cope with the cartridge (or save the $$ for a 2nd hand igher end Phonostage). The Linn makes the perfect platform for you to familiarize yourself with turntables and dont be afraid to get the older ones as they tend to be more musical than the newer versions. However, i must qualify that this coud be skewed to my musical taste as the newer variants tend to be faster, "harder"d and brighter sounding whilst the older unes are slower paced, airier and are much warmer despite being a tad muddy which adds on the the "magic" that is surreal. The Oracle is in a league of its own as a suspended turntable.

The Garrard 401 is respectable if your game is large scale classicals, rock and Jazz as that classic TT can really rock with pace with its idler drive packing in the punch. The matching tonearm is likely to be the SME 3009 or most people just plant in a RB300. If you are planning to use a MC cartridge, get the RB300 as the tonearm mass of the SME 3009 is not suitable for mounting MC Cartridges. The plinth design is critical for the 401 as isolation and mass are the all important elements to absorb all the rumble of the motor as is the separate PSU for a more stable current feed into the over-specced motor. This is fast becoming a cult TT in Japan.

When I was last at Audio Image, I saw all three turntables for sale ie the Oracle/SME345, Garrard/SME3009 and Linn/Ittok. Keep an open mind and let your ears be the judge of it.

Good luck with your purchase.

for once, i agree with mugenfoo:) all in good spirit.