Turntable lovers - Please Gather Here!

IMHO, the build quality and design have everything to do with its resultant performance and synergy with the rest of your system.
To put it simply, just like 4 or 6 cylinder car engines by different makers, eventhough they're principally the same power mechanics but perform differently and each have their own brand of pros, cons and merit. Independent suspension design are better at isolating external vibrations. I can knock the TT stand legs with a Linn or Thorens sitting on it, the stylus will not jump or skip, whereas a knock to a Rega can disturb it. As for SQ, its again the build quality primarily with heavier mass (along with best designed components complimenting everything else) generally that can have better SQ.
OK, take a rough comparison of an LP12 and Thorens TD160 (or slightly variant) in excellent running condition. The Lp12 can beat the TD160 hands down although its a large percentage identical in its design but differ in its overall mass and vastly different build quality. Nevertheless, its up to one's own ears and own call which may sound better.
Anyway, independent suspension types need some degree of well read or knowledgeable tuning and mechanical calibration to make it really sing. These TT's are far more complex and more than meet the eye.
Try reading the LP12 instruction manual (which is supposedly meant for any owner to understand) and test yourself if you understand the content and proceedures. The manual is freely downloadble.

well if you compare between linn & thorens it is fair to judge that way. im thinking of the independent suspension tech that the jvc use & in relation with present or high end TT, so it may be worth while to grab that, if its still available off course.

Linn and thoren not too much bro.. all depend set up.
if u plays both tt ... which once u want call 2nd wife
linn or thoren. up to u .

Which JVC model are you referring to? Anyway, JVC or like more exotic Micro Seiki or Luxmans are now vintage and they have their own set of problems if any.

cmboy wrote:Which JVC model are you referring to? Anyway, JVC or like more exotic Micro Seiki or Luxmans are now vintage and they have their own set of problems if any.

I think no problem for vintage tt .
is well take care likes baby ....
good sound and value for money

depens

i didnt get the model, but it has 1 for its numbering model.. just 1. if you google VL-5, it has similiarity with it, but the one i saw has anti tracking, audio precision written on the platter

hazy wrote:I think no problem for vintage tt .
is well take care likes baby ....
good sound and value for money

depens

If you're lucky to acquire one thats been seldom used, mint or A++ condition, then you're ok. Only a detailed stripdown can reveal hidden wear n tear and will need some degree of restoration to highest standard possible. Otherwise be prepared to spend time and perhaps silly money looking around for NOS or re-manufactured parts. As with any vintage, there's always a possibility of more than meets the eye. It also depend's on one's own personal standards. Been there, done that.

that unit is gone i knew its a good TT to consider.. dang!!

hi guys, between ortofon om20 & audio technica AT92 series, which is more recommended? if dont have any idea for the models, but have listen to ortofon & audio technica carts in different models but at same level, which do you find better?

this is interesting :

Each of the cartridges you’ve mentioned has different characters. Personally, I find the Ortofon a bright cartridge with exceptional stereo separation, the Shure a well-rounded performer with smooth sound and your Audio Technica with deep and tight bass plus very high output. They all handle the dreaded sibilance better then average. For build quality, I like both the AT and Ortofon

what does it means when it is said, carts like shure has flat sound?

Hi,

I just bought a 2nd hand Technics SL-1200 TT with Grado cartridge and Stylus. Using CA 540P as a phono stage before feeding into my AV Receiver.

So far find the sound to be more pleasing than CDs.


Currently going through her records and hope to restore them to playing glory

im still waiting for my AT, its on the way. anyway, glad to hear your TT works out good for you.

dayalan86 wrote:Hi,

I just bought a 2nd hand Technics SL-1200 TT with Grado cartridge and Stylus. Using CA 540P as a phono stage before feeding into my AV Receiver.

So far find the sound to be more pleasing than CDs.


Currently going through her records and hope to restore them to playing glory

Glad you're discovering analog.

Just remember to never wash your records with soap or soap-like substances or even dishwashing liquid.
Safe alternatives would be L.O.C. from Amway, or those specialised fluids from specialist brands like Clearaudio, VPI, etc but these are expensive. And always use filtered water. Tap water here contains too much sediment and tiny dirts will get washed into the grooves and even cause micro-scratches.

Just bought P2 with pipit1 from this forumer( Everybody shd know him).
Have tough time to clean my old record (about 25yrs olds)(gave up after 2 lps). I try out 5 lp that look not so bad, I wipe with wet soft cotton cloth along the groove direction and try out, result- horrible on first play. full of crackling sound and really sound like 60's era. subsequent, less crackling but the sound still no much improvement.(As compare to new lp).
Just want to know it's normal for old record to sound like that or the lp had already worn out or still need more thorough cleaning. If the lp need cleaning, does hifi shop do thorough claening up to the base of it. Need advise on this matter. I have thought of giving up each time I listen to CD but I'm not going give up on vinyl so soon.

Perhaps you should take some of your LP's and have it professionally cleaned with a Record cleaner machine (for a fee of course) and if its till noisy, there's nothing much further can be done. I think there's hints in this thread to DIY clean your records here, up to you to try it with whatever skill you have. Improve or not, left to be seen by yourself.

Professional cleaning only cost RM5 including new inner and outer sleeve. Asia Sound in Amcorp mall. No harm trying a few pieces first. I tried a few and satisfied with the service.

Old records thats stored away for long time need deep cleaning. its natural as our tropical weather is humid, harsh, polluted..the works. Fungus, dust, grime, microdirt will make listening miserable. Unlike so many used records especially from UK thats seen on the used market, amazingly much much cleaner and sometimes near mint condition eventhough 2-3 decades old.

ongaaron wrote:Professional cleaning only cost RM5 including new inner and outer sleeve. Asia Sound in Amcorp mall. No harm trying a few pieces first. I tried a few and satisfied with the service.

Do u know what chemical does Eddy/AsiaSound uses to clean the LPs ?

Hope he uses the cleaning agents that are "vinyl safe".

It depends on the condition of the old record, if there's scratches,warpage,damages on the vinyl there's nothing much can be done. I had quite a no. of old records send it out for professional cleaning, came back slightly better but the pop and crackling sound still there.

LP warpages are fixable, to a certain degree.
Furutech sells a record flattener machine for a few grand.

The most common case for Lp write-offs are:
1. physical damage (scratches, dings, general abuse)

2. chemical damage usually from stained rainwater with minerals usually from ceiling scales (salt-carbonates) or washed with caustic agents.

3. Bad turntable playback, wear and tear. This is the most insidious. Surface can seen perfectly normal visually, but upon playback, nasty breakups in the sound spectrum. This means irreversible in-groove damage. Time to use the LP and jacket for wall art or something.

As for really old and dirty LPs (but assuming they've not permanently damaged by the aboves), it would need a few rounds of playing and washing combos to really get the stubborn dirts out.

But even new LPs will never sound "perfect" unlike a CD. If you use a high enough resolution cartridge, even new vinyls actually have quite audible "cutting defects" from the master disc/mold. Its the mechanical nature of the LP format, Cannot escape.

For the really deep pocketed vinyl aficionado, check out the Keith Monk or Loricraft groove-by-groove LP cleaner machine (yes, ask Google). It doesn't get more meticulous than this when it comes to LP cleaning.

Try out one lp. This time using broad tooth brush to wash it along the groove. Very time consuming. Take longer than brushing my teeth. Result much better. That means there is grimes in the groove that can't be seen by naked eye cos previously, i just wipe with wet cloth and it's looks good.
Will choose better condition lp and sent for cleaning. Can't afford to sent all cos close to 200 lps including singles. Bankrupt la.
I know somebody will ask me to buy the cleaner. I think that will be later stage. need to chk all the lp condition b4 investing one.
Hopefully it won't break my patient on lp.

audio technica just arrived. after installing this, i found that left channel is still not working. before this, with sansui original sc 80 cart, left channel was not working also & i thought its the cart. obviously, its not. im pretty sure its the built in interconnect. i will have to bypass that non working ch & put a replacement. will see..

btw, the master of puppets does sounds good even though on 1 channel only. i've only just begun..

Azri....

Not sure if this may be of any help.....had a similar issue with my Akai TT, got the connectors ( TT end ) replaced, problem solved.

Enjoy the new toy....

cheers

ive tried cutting of edge the left channel socket & replace with another plug & still does not work. i end up pulling out the whole left channel & replace with one cheap copper ic cable. after done soldering that & have a go, it works!!.. typical of sansui ic when it comes the time, there can be internal cable break-off. Theres a distortion on this left channel & suspect its the cable. if you pull off one & another of an ic (seperating left & right) theres a tendency distortion may occur & it happened to me before.

another thing is, i notice the sansui interconnect is silver wire, while the one i use on the left channel is copper & guess what? the silver has better mids & highs while the copper has better bass response.. hows that? after running for 2, 3 tracks its noticable in that manner.. hehe. looks like im out to grab some aftermarket ic & sockets to diy on this TT. will put on some rca jack if im 'rajin' enough.. cheers

Azri.....

Good....at least you have narrowed down the issue and its now down to remedial works.

cheers

all good, did diy on the internal ic's & as expected its better to use its original silver cable. now i have both channel at reasonable lows, mids & highs. reasonable becoz its just an ordinary everyday TT.. nice analog sound especially hearing 'master of puppets' interlude, but i'm spoiled with digital sound so not really sure if im going further than this.

if u are spoiled by digital sound in a good way, then analog might spoil u further...

if u are spoiled by digital sound in a bad way, then analog could be the cure...

leceh nk tune TT hehe.. but yes, u cant beat that super analog sound from a nice decent turntable.. cheers

azri,
TT pun ada 'plug and play' what.. no tuning necessary.. hehe

CT-Boy wrote:azri,
TT pun ada 'plug and play' what.. no tuning necessary.. hehe

which one ?

leceh lorr.. must make sure the vinyl is free from habuk, & then TT must be on top, vibration factors when playing loud.. hehe.. 1st you are tense with work at office.. & then your are tense with TT at home hahahaha

but thats part of the fun of playing records.

If u want everything like instant cup noodles, play MP3 is the easiest lah... don't complain about the sound quality then. Almost zero nutritional value.

heheh.. you re right man. im that kind of person. i dont waste time to find justice in quality hearing, id rather spend that time with my doters. but i find that listening hard core music is better in digital spinning of a cdp than analog spins from a TT. well.. at this stage of course

what kind of hardcore music ? Recently bought some GnR and Metallica on vinyl. it can "walap" the CD nicely anytime.

Recently, you sold off your Rega and pipit phono...so what "walap" rig have you now?

cmboy wrote:Recently, you sold off your Rega and pipit phono...so what "walap" rig have you now?

Wow ... some people actually keep track of my gear ? I'm touched...

can i say that i'm in-between rigs now ?

If the new owner would 'fess up, that Rega + Pipit also "walap" the CD player already, playing a certain popular Taiwanese vocal singer.

Currently, the USD and GBP are lower than usual and I am thinking whether to buy some LPs via online.
Not so sure of the postage handling.
My last purchase of CDs have a few broken casings and the package was opened by Ketam to do inspection and was loosely repacked.
This has made me think thrice before clicking the "Confirm" button.

im buying LP from amazon.com....just purchase Jack Johnson LP for RM70 include courier...last month buying NIRVANA UNPLUGED 180g for RM114 include courier too...just buy due to low curency xchange

yup, if you wanna purchase some overseas items, this is the time because its end financial year & its a bit slow... do it now or starting june, july when it starts to pick up its a bit too late..

fizi : biskut limp coklat starfish 180g x beli ke? i cant find one here

muken : between my TT & cdp, its the cd. cant compare with yours, its different level.. cheers

mugenfoo wrote:
If the new owner would 'fess up, that Rega + Pipit also "walap" the CD player already, playing a certain popular Taiwanese vocal singer.

Lemme guess.. Cai Qin? Hmmm...I only have one of her records.. still sealed for keepsake. Speaking about her, I think her cd albums are still impressive or not that bad. I was once told not to buy (or waste money) the records for some reasons, so I didn't. Already have her cd's..so no real purpose.
I would buy or keep those which is the real deal back the 70's or 80's, not after its remastered or re-issued to vinyl 30 years later. Even local artist Wong Shiao Chuen (backed by The Stylers) on SRC records sound impressive on my rig.

azri wrote:
muken : between my TT & cdp, its the cd. cant compare with yours, its different level.. cheers

I can't comment on your rig coz i dunno what brand TT and what brand CD player r u using.


But generally speaking: The problem with most people's TT rig is that its not quite set-up properly. This takes alot of time, alot of patience. Something that today's generation of playstation, Wii, and Nintendo DS kids lack. And a badly setup TT not only sounds bad, but actually permanently damage the LPs as well.

Also, the electronics of the phono stages of the usual built-in ones and also small box units like the Nad PP and some other dingy boxes , definitely do their part to give u shit record sound.

But moving up the scale a little, vinyl's improvements will quantum leap over the CD system.

IMO, The threshold where a good TT rig will surpass an average CD playback system would be around the RM3~5K mark onwards.

For example, a Rega P3/24 , with good cartridge and a decent outboard phono stage (all costs included), would be starting to have the edge over the similarly priced CD player already.

I'm the one took over the p2 and pipit. Happy with it. I hope the mugen have setup the tt well. I'm really new to tt and also hifi thing.
The reason I bought TT is to revive my in-law old lp. Some of them are half a century old. I want to treasure it.
Since the P2 come with old sony xl-20 cartridge (previous onwer use it to clean lp), I will like to change it. Any suggestion. Budget max RM400.
Do you thing it's wise to spend on denon dl-160 on P2 if I'm willing to stretch my budget? What yr opinion on this.

i tarik balik kata2 terdahulu.. sedaplah bunyi LP ni..

will double up work to buy more LPs .... in madness you dwell

7810sam wrote:
Since the P2 come with old sony xl-20 cartridge (previous onwer use it to clean lp), I will like to change it. Any suggestion. Budget max RM400.
Do you thing it's wise to spend on denon dl-160 on P2 if I'm willing to stretch my budget? What yr opinion on this.

The denon is a very nice sounding catridge. Can't think of any better choice at that price.
Or Audio Technica AT-95E for RM200+ ?
Of course you're free to choose anything else that suit you.

7810sam wrote:I'm the one took over the p2 and pipit. Happy with it. I hope the mugen have setup the tt well. I'm really new to tt and also hifi thing.
The reason I bought TT is to revive my in-law old lp. Some of them are half a century old. I want to treasure it.
Since the P2 come with old sony xl-20 cartridge (previous onwer use it to clean lp), I will like to change it. Any suggestion. Budget max RM400.
Do you thing it's wise to spend on denon dl-160 on P2 if I'm willing to stretch my budget? What yr opinion on this.

Well, if u change cartridge, hope u get the seller or shop guy to re-align & rebalance the whole works nicely for you.

Otherwise even if u put RM10,000 cartridge but the set-up is messed up, the sound will be crap and u will damage your precious vinyls playing on a mis-aligned rig...

Mr.7810sam: If the Rega came to you complete, you should find an simple alignment protractor and instructions leaflet.

I recommend that you start learning the ropes of turntable setup starting with your newly acquired Rega. It can be fun of course and to your benefit. Start of by learning how to align a cartridge and balance it. There's nothing else to fiddle with your Rega other than the tonearm.

cmboy wrote:Mr.7810sam: If the Rega came to you complete, you should find an simple alignment protractor and instructions leaflet.

I recommend that you start learning the ropes of turntable setup starting with your newly acquired Rega. It can be fun of course and to your benefit. Start of by learning how to align a cartridge and balance it. There's nothing else to fiddle with your Rega other than the tonearm.

nope, sorry. tadak ... i didn't get it , so mr. sam7810 also didn't get it also.

But if u guys are keen to get some Protractors off the 'Net, here are some made specially for Regas.

http://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge-alignment-protractors.shtml



Now the trick is to print them exactly to scale (which is damn hard to achieve, as consumer printers aren't really 100% WYSIWYG & to scale), and to punch that spindle hole to be as accurate as possible (this one is even harder to do, trust me) on the printed Protractors.

Here's another tip. If you can, don't align the cart body to the gridlines, but use the cantilever's Protrusion instead. This would be the ideal way but its damn damn damn hard to do visually. But the sonic payouts are really worth it (for me at least).

azri wrote:i tarik balik kata2 terdahulu.. sedaplah bunyi LP ni..

will double up work to buy more LPs .... in madness you dwell

Bro azri...I tarik balik kata2 terdahulu..sedaplah bunyi LP ni <----mention bout LIMP BIZKIT LP...????

I printed my protractor and strobe using 230gram(IIRC) A4 paper and on a buddy's HP architectural plan plotter. Its very vivid and accurate. I won't resort to budget printers or even Laser printers that won't even feed properly this kind of thick paper.
Yes, its easy ehough to cut that spindle hole...IF you know the other alternative. That is..cut a triangle instead of round precisely at the edge of the circle. I also used a hole punch for this which also works out nicely.

P.S. If not mistaken, Vinyl Engine doesn't allow direct link of their downloads. Have to surf to that site on your own.

thanks cmboy, yeah the links need to come from vinyl engine directly.

Also considered cutting the triangle way.. but getting it spot-on is such a pain still... so i went out and got meself a nice Clearaudio aligner gauge and its even got 4 choices of different nullpoint sets but alas, no Stevenson null points. Also, the spindle hole is a tad too loose (depending on TT spindle), but easily fixed by sticking some 3M scotchtape inside the gauge's spindle hole.

Since it's a universal gauge ... it readily adapts to most if not all transcription turntables.

http://www.clearaudio.de/eng/z_iz_drehtonarmiec.html