Turntable or CD

No problemo.. as long as you all can wait.
Ooh yes... It is going to be a long long wait. hohohohohoho....

cmboy wrote:Not entirely right.
Step 2 could be Step 1
Step 6 should be step 2. Furthermore, ANTISKATE (if any) must be set at ZERO during any alignment and adjusted back to proper setting when all finished.
For any Rega, the supplied alignment protractor is just fine for most purpose and intent. Its straightforward to set the right cartridge overhang. One point and least fussy that anyone can do with it.

Actually, depending on tonearm design, the anti-skate CAN change the tracking force. This happened on my TP13a tonearm.

So, the antiskate should be set according to the mfg's instructions for the target trackforce. But final trackforce has to be dialled in WITH the anti-skate in place.

Most anti-skates are just step adjustments based on the instructions so should be just a simple step.

The "Master Poisoner" aka "Acoustic Drug Dealer" Hi-Fi peddlar (who so requests to remain anonymous for fear of his name being quoted to lend weight to opinions) recommends to actually set the anti-skate by listening alone.

Everyone may have their own ideas of anti skate. Its ok..you read, you learn and you think whats best to your ears later on. As with anyone else, I know my rigs well and will set it best I know and can do. It doesn't matter much to me if the VTF is 0.5gram off, just that I like it on the higher side of the specified range and I don't need the use of a 0.00001% VTF gauge. Its all personal preference. End of a long period, when I've played some records time and again, I don't hear audible damage at the groove, the all's well.

..... but don't give up on the fun of tuning just yet !

mugenfoo wrote:..... but don't give up on the fun of tuning just yet !

Errr buddy, if you think wanna think its always fun tuning and fiddling with it all, then its entirely fun for you...well and good.
Perhaps you're on the learning curve and stepping into an entirely new avenue therefore the whole rigmarole may have some fun facto factor.
As for me, I look to it as a very important initial setup, specific purpose and thats it, sit back and enjoy it. I don't see much purpose to be trigger happy and meddling with it expecting significant improvements. All TT's have their limitations at its price point. Not all records are made equal and some may sound good, some may not. There always exist some degree of compromise and the turntable settings are just that...a suitable compromise. The machine is also just a tool and source for your music.

agreed ... i'm having a blast now with the tools and stuff... eventually i'll settle down and just play music once the novelty wears off.

So either way, its a fun journey !

But getting jaded over the game is another matter. Hope you nor I don't fall in that category. So let the music keep playing.

Ya lar.. I dont care about the alignment thing.
I have not re-tune it for 7-8 yrs already.
Or maybe I dont know how to tune them after all.
Just play the LPs only and enjoy.

Come to think about it.
It is not a bad thing when I dont know how to tune it.
I have so much more time for listening. hahahahaha...

Coz I have already get used to playing CDs.
So, I am very lazy and just assume the LP is CD.

Apasal sudah tukar become H power? No more K power?
Or you are trying to show the significance between wheel alignment and TT alignment?

Everyone should thank for the internet where owners can be more critical now to these setup issues. Otherwise in those days..what VTA, what VTF, its nearly plug n play. Just have the VTF as specified...thats it. Buy another record when its worn down or damaged.

Referring to the topic title, I found that nowadays lots of enthusiasts are already playing both CDs and LPs.
Quite an interesting trend as we can see the number of people playing LPs again.
I have a moderate CD player and own a budget used TT.
It was cheap back then and it is working well too.
So, no harm buying and keeping it. No regrets.

That day I did some housekeeping and found that I still have a spare Audio Technica cartridge.
I bought it from Spore few years back.

cmboy wrote:Everyone should thank for the internet where owners can be more critical now to these setup issues. Otherwise in those days..what VTA, what VTF, its nearly plug n play. Just have the VTF as specified...thats it. Buy another record when its worn down or damaged.

Thats why some old records are in such bad shape. Going thru a hefty collection of vinyls from grandpa's cabinet, i found alot of 60s and 70s vinyls what look perfectly fine to the naked eye but when played, sounded horrible.

When i took them to the "Master Poisoner" for a thorough cleaning and re-sleeving, i was informed that the cause of all these horrible screeches and sonic break-ups are due to improper stylus settings and the like. These are all the in-groove damage incurred by poorly set up TTs of the past.

So now in the age of information freedom and the like (God bless the Internet), there are no more excuses in ignorance on how to properly play and care for vinyls except for the most indifferent and laziest of all music lovers.

car o scope wrote:Referring to the topic title, I found that nowadays lots of enthusiasts are already playing both CDs and LPs.
Quite an interesting trend as we can see the number of people playing LPs again.
I have a moderate CD player and own a budget used TT.
It was cheap back then and it is working well too.
So, no harm buying and keeping it. No regrets.

That day I did some housekeeping and found that I still have a spare Audio Technica cartridge.
I bought it from Spore few years back.

Wow.. if u got a spare AudioTechnica head just lying around, why not take up that Asia Sound trade-in offer and spice some life into your vinyls? Otherwise, I know a person who has a Rega P2+arm (s/hand but in very good condition) and is thinking of selling it off for around RM850. All you need next is a phono stage (a s/hand Pro-Ject phonobox goes for approx RM400) to go with your Exposure XX and your SFCD would really sing wonderfully already. So there u have it, RM 1250 and you would have "refreshed" your vinyl rig.

Cheap cheap good good !

hey ! there's a s/hand Rega P3 +arm + cart + Fono stage all going for RM1.2K !

@Car-o-scope... what r u waiting for ?

mugenfoo wrote:hey ! there's a s/hand Rega P3 +arm + cart + Fono stage all going for RM1.2K !

@Car-o-scope... what r u waiting for ?

Errrrr... digg dig digggggging into pocket....thinkkkkkkk,, still thinking....0,1,0,1,0,1,0,0,1,,.....still computing..., should I, should I not, she loves me, she loves me not........0,1,0,1,0,1,0,0,....still computing...almost hang....BUY or NOT TO BUY...THAT's the question?... still computing.. ekkkk...CPU hang!..........ahhhhh... dunno lahhhh!

... must be running on Windows. Thats why lah hang.

mugenfoo wrote:... must be running on Windows. Thats why lah hang.

DOS 3.1 !!!.. bullet proof. You do the thinking...the computer doesn't think so much..

cmboy wrote:

mugenfoo wrote:... must be running on Windows. Thats why lah hang.

DOS 3.1 !!!.. bullet proof. You do the thinking...the computer doesn't think so much..

Lagi more easy to hang ! Bug in your DOS/4GW Extended memory driver must be ? ....

mugenfoo wrote:hey ! there's a s/hand Rega P3 +arm + cart + Fono stage all going for RM1.2K !

@Car-o-scope... what r u waiting for ?

Yes. Very attractive indeed from RobA4.
But I think I really really need to settle the main objective 1st before going to other stuffs. Must not lose focus.
After that, apa apa pun bolih..

Fuh yoh.. mugenfoo's turn to poison me balik..
Quick quick go prepare antidote 1st..

That P3 looks stock but still good for the money. I've heard one forumer's P3 (at LYN)..with all the upgrades for another 1k + and custom tweaks, its jaw dropping sound!. I could say, you never heard another P3 like this one.
Then there's this blogger at http://finetone.blogspot.com/2009/05/analogue-source-rega-p5-turntable-part.html where his P5 with similar upgrade parts, even more jaw dropping experience.

Those upgrade parts ain't any snake oil parts. They're expensive but very well worth!. Those upgrade Rega are in another league, not the stock version. But then..the rest of the amplification.. another story lah!
Lagi mahu RACUUUUUN ah?..

Hahahaha.. Maseh Bolih Tahan largi...
Come come racun again.. hahahaha..
Later, other people kena this racun instead.

Back to discussion. TT has more areas to upgrade compared to a CD player.
Yes. I do believe that upgrades to the components of the TT will bring improvements to the sound.

Rega's TT design is unmistakably simple.
Those AVID and Vyger are like some sort of space ships or Star Wars equipment.
TT which are good looking can also be used as home decor.

All Hi fi frens,
Take a look of this link...
http://www.mds975.co.uk/Content/vinyl01.html

jazzfunksoulmusic wrote:All Hi fi frens,
Take a look of this link...
http://www.mds975.co.uk/Content/vinyl01.html

This technics TT is very rare in malaysia..singapore selling for used
set around S$480...One sifu also told me that the TT is very good try
to grab if available..

Fizi,
The sifu know how to repair technics TT? besides, Singapore where? S$480 i also grab if the condition is good.

You can still find brand new Technics SL12xx TT at Hin Huat, Sim Lim Tower S'pore. They have a website somewhere (you google lah).
Not entirely cheap but brand new assured and I think they stock spares, accessories for that brand. Up to you if its worth it.
I've seen local used ones but cosmetics is bad to terrible, oso ask high price for it. If I really want one, I'd buy brand new and live with it assured its new, once and for all.

jazzfunksoulmusic wrote:Fizi,
The sifu know how to repair technics TT? besides, Singapore where? S$480 i also grab if the condition is good.

I read the price at singapore website echoloft and zenn after some tweaks the price can go to S$1k..i never seen any bolehland selling their Technics 1200<--maybe dont have also

TT sifu in ipoh can repair all type TT because he only concentrate at analog source..not only TT others hifi equipment to..

fizi wrote:
i never seen any bolehland selling their Technics 1200<--maybe dont have also
.

You never see because you don't look hard enough.

http://www.mudah.my/li?ca=8_s&th=1&q=technics&cg=0&w=1

But note the cosmetic condition closely, yet they ask those kind of price..

cmboy wrote:

fizi wrote:
i never seen any bolehland selling their Technics 1200<--maybe dont have also
.

You never see because you don't look hard enough.

http://www.mudah.my/li?ca=8_s&th=1&q=technics&cg=0&w=1

But note the cosmetic condition closely, yet they ask those kind of price..

cmboy,because its rare im MY thats y the price crazy looo..

Its not really rare.. seen many around, just you have to look for it, but not always on the internet. There's a few at Joe Mac Amcorp Mall, but perhaps barely working condition and terribly used. Serious re-furbishment is neccessary for those kind.
Anyway, there's always other choice like Rega now on offer. No need to compete with others who suggest you must spend on P3-24. If just for fun, the lowest model P1 will sufficem just fine. But if you insist on best quality and very cheap price...THAT can be rare.

Is the Technics 1200 a DJ TT?

car o scope wrote:Is the Technics 1200 a DJ TT?

Designed for DJ use and have been top choice since disco days. Doesn't mean it can't be used for hifi.
Nobody make better than them. Almost every component is own manufacture, from motor to electronics.
Matsushita is THAT capable and they don't make rubbish.

Sounds good.
Well, if want simplicity, can look for Rega.
For funky looks, can go for this Technics.
Not bad not bad...

Technics can still get spare parts?

Technics seldom have problems. Normally the problem is frm the pitch control knob. Besides, it can be fixed. If you use carefully like the home playback sure no problem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technics_SL-1200

You have to understand that this TT is likely used heavily and not with gentle touch like most people do with own hifi. Yes, parts may be available through special order from Panasonic Malaysia or you get it direct from S'pore. Panasonic officially doesn't support this TT because it doesn't import nor retail this for a long time now. Thats what I gather from some comms with them long ago.

just go for a Rega P3-24 with the works.... no fuss. no hassle. Closest thing to plug n play in this modern age of instant gratification.

mugenfoo wrote:just go for a Rega P3-24 with the works.... no fuss. no hassle. Closest thing to plug n play in this modern age of instant gratification.

i agree. as hassle-free as vinyl can get these days ....

Does it mean that this Rega no need to do alignment?

if u use "everything rega" . Yes, no need to align. The Elys-2 cartridge got one centre screw that will lock its position at the proper place on the RB301 arm.

You only need to set the trackforce/counterweights & bias/anti-skate and just following the manual would suffice already.

(this is from what i gathered by reading thru the manual, that is. But i don't own any Rega so i'm also just taking an informed guess here).

Yep, just follow the manual. Even if you're a greenie, it's an easy process. And if you're a greenie, read up on these things, so you know what you're doing and can extract the best from it.

Important - make sure the platform is level (and this would apply for any TT). I've owned a Planar 3, P-3-24 and P5 before, believe me, it's no rocket science if the arm and cartridge are from Rega!

Ooooh... Never thought that it is so convenient now.
More or less like playing CD.

Because all the while, I thought that all TT needs alignment no matter what brand or model.

Are there any downsides for such convenience?

Just follow the manual, use your eyesight, and everything will be aligned properly ... for an all-Rega set-up, of course. There's no VTA to set and three screws to ensure the cartridge is aligned ... just set the counterweight and tracking force, as mugen said, and ready to rock.

On the downside, you might find yourself spending lots more money buying LPs ....

i need to go visit "The Poison Den" soon..... do some thorough cleaning for some old LPs.

@car o scope, buy over @bassraptor's old ex-TT lah .... very canggih looking one.

bassraptor,
Thanks for the info..
OK. Before starting, I need to go get a new pair of glasses 1st.
Recently, I see things a bit blurry.

Hahahahaha... Certainly will buy lotsa LPs.
Have to buy (coz cannot burn)..

mugen,
The Poison Den? Have I been to this poison den? I wonder...

You mean the Vyger ah? Errr.. Sorry guys..
Really apologetic coz I cannot afford it at this moment.

guys , sound better lenco l75 rb 300 or thorens 125 mk 11 sme 3009 11.

urs exp't or audiotion .

thk

cannot compare just like that.

What cartridge being used ? Whats the condition of the Thorens punya suspension springs or the health of the belt (or the idler wheel mechanism in the case of the Lenco).

Also, Some people prefer the "idler wheel on platter" sound. Some prefer the "belt driven platter" sound.

I would guess that the Lenco would have more audible rumble & motor noise being picked up by the cart than a Thorens. And this is just a big GUESS.

Anyone got a Lenco in good working condition for a demo?

mugenfoo wrote:cannot compare just like that.

What cartridge being used ? Whats the condition of the Thorens punya suspension springs or the health of the belt (or the idler wheel mechanism in the case of the Lenco).

Also, Some people prefer the "idler wheel on platter" sound. Some prefer the "belt driven platter" sound.

I would guess that the Lenco would have more audible rumble & motor noise being picked up by the cart than a Thorens. And this is just a big GUESS.

Anyone got a Lenco in good working condition for a demo?

I feel there's more personal claims than any scientific data to back up which drive is better. Anyone have to understand that the TT involves a whole complex science of in depth physics and mechanics that synergise together to result in its unique tonal character and expected performance. I'm no Einstein to explain all this in dept. For example the Rega, replace the glass platter to another material, acrylic, MDF or any exotic material available, the sonic character and degree of coloration will change for sure. How do you explain that?.. all are sound dead or near dead material and anyone may earlier take for granted "its just a platter as a platform for the LP", isn't it. Replace the hifi stand to any of your choice on a TT and you're going to hear something different. It have to do with the amount of vibrations and trying to control it to get the "right sound" in optimizing the rig. I can tell you the Linn LP12 platter rings like a bell, so does the Rega glass platter to a lesser degree. The felt mat negates the vibration or ringing from the glass preventing it from being picked up at the cartridge. Replace to another type of mat and the sonics change again. Similarly, the Lenco, Technics, some Thorens and Garrard vintage all have heavy rubber mat on the platter. This heavy mat will absorb any vibrations from the beneath the platter from being picked up, that was the obvious purpose. It was also the technology of the era that Lenco, Thorens and many vintage used noisier AC motors and the AC can find its way to be amplified. I remember looking at the HUGE Garrard 301 AC motor. Its just a fraction smaller than your table fan motor. Now the Rega and Linn motor looks pale and cheapo by comparison BUT due to technological advance, its more stable, less vibration and accurate. The acrylic platter of many higher end TT's are sound dead, the thicker, it is is even more DEAD and vibrationless. Its also about the amount of vibration and how much of it get mixed and amplified that adds to some musicality that some may appreciate.
Different makes of tonearms also exhibit different tonality and performance and have everything to do with resonance and vibration issues. Oh well ALL these play a part in the synergy of the TT to produce best sound possible and surely all parameters considered carefully by the manufacturer who designed it.

Hmmm... no wonder that ol' TD150 has a very soft but low Growl-growl-growl-growl sound that follows the spin RPM in spite of that thick black rubber mat! Such a high noise floor!

Anyone got a working condition Lenco? Mebbe interesting to do an A/B comparison and also amongst other things ... see how one design-type sounds compared to the other.

mugenfoo wrote:Hmmm... no wonder that ol' TD150 has a very soft but low Growl-growl-growl-growl sound that follows the spin RPM in spite of that thick black rubber mat! Such a high noise floor!

Anyone got a working condition Lenco? Mebbe interesting to do an A/B comparison and also amongst other things ... see how one design-type sounds compared to the other.

I could easily speculate a well setup Lenco with the M55 cartridge will beat your TD150 hands down in musicality, bass weight and many areas of authority. Heavy build TT primarily contribute to these attributes. The Lenco is heavy build compared to the TD150. It would be interesting though to compare the Lenco with a Garrard 301/401 or Thorens TD124. Just that Garrard and Lenco vintage are well mated to SME 9" and 12" arms. Lenco have an inferior arm compared to the SME.
Don't compare lah.. you'd be awed by a well setup Lenco. Don't look at me..I don't have one..hahaha!

@cmboy,

Curiously... u got an M55 cartridge ?

OK, how about putting ye olde Lenco with an SME tonearm + M55 against say a modern day P3-24 with the RB301 and just for completeness, Elys-2 head.?

Where'd u place your money on ?

mugenfoo wrote:@cmboy,
Curiously... u got an M55 cartridge ?
OK, how about putting ye olde Lenco with an SME tonearm + M55 against say a modern day P3-24 with the RB301 and just for completeness, Elys-2 head.?
Where'd u place your money on ?

Different presentation altogether where the Lenco will beat it in terms of musicality, more coloration, warmer, thicker body with lots of authority but lack finesse and resolution. The Rega may be leaner, more precise, better focus, imaging, less color and towards neutral, nevertheless a good all rounder. If you tend to want analytical, best imaging, most details, the Lenco is not your cuppa tea. The two cartridges here are two entirely diffent animals and exhibit entirely different tonality, resolution and presentation. Rega cartridge is somewhat love or hate it. I believe the M55 have quite a high output compared to many current MM cartridges. This is quite evident in a higher volume and more authority in the bass region but lack higher resolution and frequency response. Thats why they recommend you to buy V-15 series for ultimate fidelity. M55 was best of budget cartridge in its heyday.

@cmboy, you're using a complete rega P3-24 tt + arm + carty right ?


interesting article i found on the V-15 head...
http://hometheaterreview.com/shure-v15-phono-cartridge-reviewed/