equipment makers that went for cheap labours!!

theres heaps of hi fidelity equipment makers that shift their factories to 'offshore' just to cut cost & makes lots of money now days. whether the quality remains the same or worsen is the second issue. the reason to list down such names are for the benefits & references so that we know what we are buying in the future. The list not only consist of amps but cdp, ic, speakers & many other equipment that once bare the word "fuh" & know "hmmmm". so if you have the knowledge pls share. It does not have to be straight down to the models, it can be generally makers.

i'll start 1st

1. REDGUM RGi60 > produce offshore & becomes REDGUM sonofaGUM sg5500 for only $599 au.

2. Marantz new line up!!

3. krell s-300i

roksan, psb, epos.

At the rate things go, maybe it is easier to list which equipment are NOT made by offshore factories.

epos? fuh.. didn't realize that

QUAD
KEF

epos, yes. psb, yes ... but roksan?

I hope this is just meant as a source of info and won't be used by the ill-informed to make a pre-judgement on a certain equipment just based on its country of manufacture (without properly listening first). Take for e.g. the famous cavert "made in china". Given that there are so many quite competent hifi equipments now coming out from china, is the old stigma of being 'made in china = less desirable' still fully applicable nowadays ?

WongKN wrote:I hope this is just meant as a source of info and won't be used by the ill-informed to make a pre-judgement on a certain equipment just based on its country of manufacture (without properly listening first). Take for e.g. the famous cavert "made in china". Given that there are so many quite competent hifi equipments now coming out from china, is the old stigma of being 'made in china = less desirable' still fully applicable nowadays ?

Agree. Admittedly, they have improved by leaps and bounds. But, please dont fall for the tack line "the factory manufactures for xx world renowned brands one, now they put their own brands. Everything same as the xx brands but you pay much less!" The "much less" can be substantial amount of >RM 20K for a pair of cloned xx brand speakers.

YMMV.

err.. i just buy jamo subwoofer last 2 weeks, when i bring home and look closely at the back it write made in PRC..
but the sound i think ok.

see.. thats my point

1. you get a clone, cheaper price, different or same name, but 'maybe' same sounding & you have the knowledge to tell others about it.
2. but don't go brag around telling others this & that about that as though its gempak abis cause theres heaps of hifi kakis whom are really sensitives from where their equipment made from. Often you see when they sell it they will include this friendly word : "this is original made in bla bla bla not the cheap bla bla bla"
3. i dont mind using china made. as long as i have the 'cheap chances' to own audiophile gadget when i intend to. you get what you pay for

proAC 1sc ($3k) > imitatio with no names but exact copy, except the woofer drivers have slight different where theres no phase plug for the immi. ($500) http://www.yogoo.com/pro1.htm

recently sold for $392 australian dollar for a 3 years old unit. not bad eh for the repo??

I think B&W should be in the list !

azri wrote:see.. thats my point

1. you get a clone, cheaper price, different or same name, but 'maybe' same sounding & you have the knowledge to tell others about it.
2. but don't go brag around telling others this & that about that as though its gempak abis cause theres heaps of hifi kakis whom are really sensitives from where their equipment made from. Often you see when they sell it they will include this friendly word : "this is original made in bla bla bla not the cheap bla bla bla"
3. i dont mind using china made. as long as i have the 'cheap chances' to own audiophile gadget when i intend to. you get what you pay for

SETUJU~!

I assume everyone understood the original point of my post, i.e. to be sensible enough to actually HEAR an equipment before dismissing it based on superficial information. So my point to everyone is to not PRE-JUDGE an equipment based on where it is manufactured. LISTEN FIRST, then only decide. Being 'brand concious', as in wanting on equipment made in certain countries is NOT WRONG. But having a closed mind or worse, prejudiced one is wrong. Even Harry Person was guilty of this once as very long time ago, after the AudioNote Ongaku was first made known to the world and hifi magazines in the UK were praising it, HP went on record, stating IN HIS MAGAZINE (TAS) that he will never consider or bother to audition the Ongaku simply because it is made in Japan and in his biased mind, NOTHING MADE IN JAPAN CAN BE HIGH-END. Man, was he ever brought back down to earth from his high perch of arrogance (yes, you are right if you conclude that I have never respected HP as a person but that is personal).

WongKN wrote:I assume everyone understood the original point of my post, i.e. to be sensible enough to actually HEAR an equipment before dismissing it based on superficial information. So my point to everyone is to not PRE-JUDGE an equipment based on where it is manufactured. LISTEN FIRST, then only decide. Being 'brand concious', as in wanting on equipment made in certain countries is NOT WRONG. But having a closed mind or worse, prejudiced one is wrong. Even Harry Person was guilty of this once as very long time ago, after the AudioNote Ongaku was first made known to the world and hifi magazines in the UK were praising it, HP went on record, stating IN HIS MAGAZINE (TAS) that he will never consider or bother to audition the Ongaku simply because it is made in Japan and in his biased mind, NOTHING MADE IN JAPAN CAN BE HIGH-END. Man, was he ever brought back down to earth from his high perch of arrogance (yes, you are right if you conclude that I have never respected HP as a person but that is personal).

You have a good point there.

However, common folks tend to carry certain perception on products that are made in developing countries like China, Vietnam or Indonesia although that's the common trend for established companies to move their production bases to those countries nowaday. Take hifi equipments for example, the products made there may sound hi-end and good to my ears, but if I were to pay more than RM5k for a piece, I would have this second thoughts lingering in my mind doubting the quality and durability. Not to say it's certainty but there is alway doubt. Perhaps that is what the thread starter wanted to imply when he started the thread -to let the ignorants like me know, what are the established products/brand that are now made in "developing" countries so that one can make an informed decision before parting with his hard earned, carrying blood, sweat and tears, money to buy a piece of hifi equipment.

The perception will alway be there, until maybe later stage when the production standard and quality control in those countries catch up. South Korea or Samsung is one typical example. In the 90s, Samsung is alway ranked second tier products to the Japanese and the pricing of Samsung products reflected as such. Now, they are on par

I think current Epos speaker's driver is made in China.. I might be wrong..
I find this is acceptable, because they wont be competitive if they dont make the move. Most important thing is: the company put the best effort to maintain in total quality as much as possible.

I have no problems with audio products or parts OEM'ed in third world country provided it is of recognized quality. After all hifi is just a hobby.

If we can accept brake pads, tires and other essential auto parts from third world countries, and bet our lives on them, why not audio products?

ecoli123 wrote:After all hifi is just a hobby.

If we can accept brake pads, tires and other essential auto parts from third world countries, and bet our lives on them, why not audio products?

True by some principle but I reckon there's always just as many who insist on reputed manufacture (in this case its place of manufacture) for sense of pride and status amongst their peer. Brake pads, tires..those are just common consumables..easily discarded without flinching if any sense of dissatisfaction. Not so easy with hifi equipment.
An example like Tannoy speakers..first in UK/Scotland, then some post communist EU country, then China...now that brand doesn't seem to lift skirts..so I assume. I think I recall some budget models of AE (Acoustic Energy) speakers made/assembled here in Malaysia.

Who cares where stuff is made ...
the coolest gadgets are all made in China ... Macs, iPods, iPhones, iPads ... Krell S-300i...

WHAT ?!?!?!?!! Krell MADE in CHINA ?!?!?!! Oh the Humanity !!!

China can make rockets that goes into outerspace. Some of those technologies and parts are used in HIFI. dont believe.

China product include Onyx - Melody, Consonance, Bewitch and McIntosh

For these manufacturer, is it important to choose between china made casing or Australia made casign. i.e the critical component and technologies are still imported.

Not forgetting the once diy parts Burson discrete opamp was designed and OEM from China (before the Sun, Moon and Earth).

b&w? yosshh no wonder many opts for the vintage

QED, CARDAS

Apart from all that it is made reachable / affordable to many.

cheers

hi

Form some sources, ATC speaker (MK II) will be make in dragon land. So, better get now ATC before too late loh.

WBT
VAN DEN HUL

LUXMAN ??

cmboy wrote:An example like Tannoy speakers..first in UK/Scotland, then some post communist EU country, then China...now that brand doesn't seem to lift skirts..so I assume. I think I recall some budget models of AE (Acoustic Energy) speakers made/assembled here in Malaysia.

A few years back, Malaysia was a net camera exporting country because Minolta manufactured its P&S here. Now that Minolta is defunct, I am sure the situation is reversed.

I was told the coating used on the ultra advanced bomber plane form US, (don't mention name, C I A is watching) that make it invisible to radars, is comprised of a number of component paint. And one of the secret paint component is manufactured in ... Shah Alam. The is the direct result of contract manufacturing and economics.

Tannoy? I prefer the Westminster from UK, no contest:)

Well, almost all of the Japs AVR are being made/assembled/manufactured outside the Land of the Rising Sun.
Many AVR fans out there feel that these Japs are still the best choices for Home Theater. Majority will look for Japanese brands when it comes to AVR shopping.

KLIPSCH

Yamaha is manufactured in Perak, Onkyo in Kulim, Mission in Sg. Petani and the list goes on ... i was even offered mission spkrs that 'fell off the lorry' once.

Onkyo in Kulim? How many plants they have in Msia? Looks like they have more than one in Msia.

mission in sg. petani? fuh.. nasib tak beli kat sini. there price just does not reflects the design, same goes to klipsch!!

there is an onkyo factory in bangi, selangor

Got a pair of Quad 12L, made in China but of very high quality and built. Sounds superb. Also has a set of mid range sony cdp meant for European customers made in Malaysia. Again very well built. Prices of both are not cheap. Developing countries can make good quality products if you are willing to pay for it. Likewise, same with cheap products which is in abundance.

how much for that 12L/pair??

me think TNB should go in hi-fi cable business bcoz they seemed to mastered the technique of high current conduction .. i.e. high electrical bills lately..imagine spkr cable by TNB .. model TENAGA 1..2.. etc delivers high current and sure cun sound..

perlis1977 wrote:hi

Form some sources, ATC speaker (MK II) will be make in dragon land. So, better get now ATC before too late loh.

The Quad 2905 which some respected American hifi reviewers have called the best speaker in the world is made in China. Both the Americans and the British themselves are unanimous in saying that the quality improved significantly after Quad moved their production from UK to China.

am using a quad tube preamp made in china for nearly a year. The pre is turned on abt 5-10 hours a day and so far no problems and quite happy with it.

cambridge audio, austintrew, vimak, jeff rol, whaferdale, rogers, onix, musical fidelity...

Most of the individual parts are manufactured in china.
Design in the native country, tested and patented world wide.

It makes more sense to shift operations to China and use workers from there as you don't have to deal with cross border taxes and freight.

Even for neutriks they have the china edition and german edition -
German ones more aesthetically pleasing, china ones are plain as day.

But once they get enough sales volume, they'll shift the manufacturing to developing countries as they have space and land for cheap.

So It depends on the companies's stringent QC and engineer process - i have tried many OEM/factory outlet plugs that are solid quality on par with "branded" ones just that they don't have any fancy boxes or nice packaging for the perceived value.

Even process plants in singapore is using malaysia/china workers - the prestigious casinos are also build by china and bangladesh nationals..that doesn't mean they do shoddy work because they're guided by skilled and experienced foreman/contractors.

Theaudiohub wrote:Most of the individual parts are manufactured in china.
Design in the native country, tested and patented world wide.

It makes more sense to shift operations to China and use workers from there as you don't have to deal with cross border taxes and freight.

Even for neutriks they have the china edition and german edition -
German ones more aesthetically pleasing, china ones are plain as day.

But once they get enough sales volume, they'll shift the manufacturing to developing countries as they have space and land for cheap.

So It depends on the companies's stringent QC and engineer process - i have tried many OEM/factory outlet plugs that are solid quality on par with "branded" ones just that they don't have any fancy boxes or nice packaging for the perceived value.

Even process plants in singapore is using malaysia/china workers - the prestigious casinos are also build by china and bangladesh nationals..that doesn't mean they do shoddy work because they're guided by skilled and experienced foreman/contractors.

Audiohub...

Could not have said it better..... ....unfortunately certain individuals have these perception that things made in third world countries are inferior from all angles.

As you said makes business sense to move operations to third world countries and the third world country benefits. Quality would be maintained as not to loose reputation and market share.

Relate an encounter :

Put up my NAD 3020 for sale, buyer call to offer a price which is jaw dropping ....offered a very very low price.... why.... bcos made in "Taiwan" not England mali one.

I said sure, i won't mind letting go at that price but it would be for the knobs and a few pieces of components .

Shhssssss...people with their perception.

cheers

Put it this way,
while chinese companies have bad rep - due to the globalization/ advancement in internet information and more savvy users.

The japs in the 60-70s were the same, they copied vehemently from US and were sued - take for example guitars brands like Ibanez, kawai and aria - http://www.myrareguitars.com/1970guitars.html

Now look at where they are now.

On the more positive outlook, without Chinese companies - most of us here, including myself who have no earning power to that of big executives will not be able to afford equipment - most of us won't be even posting here as computers will be so expensive - remember the first 386 that you had that cost thousands? lol

Last time Japan was good in copycat, follow by Taiwan and now China. In today, MIJ = Quality. MIT = 2nd grade (at least in computer world..). So, in future, MIC can be = quality as well.

Only MIM forever = lousy. Yes! Boleh! Apa tak Boleh??

Mahler 9 wrote:cambridge audio, austintrew, vimak, jeff rol, whaferdale, rogers, onix, musical fidelity...

thanks for the input on makers. does it means the newer ls3/5a were made in china?

mr. theaudiohub, i believe the unable to purchase good hifi EQ in bolehland factors are more to mark-ups by seller. this becomes a bad habit until someone said its cheaper to purchase from singapore.. in malaysia, why the mark up margins were so high because "i want to become rich businessman" thingy that keeps circling in their filthy mind. look around at other countries where you we'll see its cheap to buy even its just mid end like NAD, Rotel or marantz.

whos to blame? who starts all this?.. ever wonder?

Azri....

For the matter its for other goods as well.

I have a second hobby ( other than Hifi ), the stuff sold in MY is jaw dropping () and the same gear can be acquired from Hong Kong, Indonesia, thailand or China at 60 to 70 percent cheaper. And I have friends who take a boat ( the legal type ) across to indonesia to get the desired gear or drive down to Thailand.

Take a walk into any of the shops in MY to enquire and the attitude, sarcasm, the once over would be nothing compared to what you get from the HiFi shops.
Gets my adrenalin pumping and I would sound the proprietor off.

Scenario :

Buyer : berapa harga ????

Proprietor : .....silence....

Buyer : Taukek... berapa harga.......????

Proprietor : RM1000.00 lebih....ini olang punya.... ( the gear would be at the shop for many moons )

Phew..... the attitude .....where else the gear is only at a few hundred dollars in RM.

cheers

Well I can't say much, I'm not malaysian.

But in singapore, if you don't like the prices you have a choice to buy from Amazon, Japan and any country within a click.

If the retailers believe that consumers are dumb to be "carrot heads" then it is their lost. Usually I tell my friends and family just to buy online. The savings is astronomical but of course you have to take into consideration a few things -

1. After Service - sometimes a bit more than what you usually find, but very good support
2. Shipping can be a killer - freight and taxes are very much a hassle. Product DOA
3. Instant gratification - you see you like you buy.
4. They also have to make a living - business cost etc.

But I don't know how much is the mark up (most products are around 20-30% margins from experience) - Usually if they adhere within RRP, I believe it is fair enough that they price it as such and not more but here in Singapore, a globalized country, the other factor is that people are willing to risk the above points I've raised to save money.

I myself have done it on my occasions with regards to buying headphones - SG sells 199SGD for a headphone but after much sourcing online, I could easily get it at $100 USD - thats $140 SGD with shipping.

I've read from local forums that they are people even importing 40-50" TVs because it is so much cheaper even with taxes.

So it depends on how you define fair and how much of a risk taker you are.
I believe if the service level is good and after service is there, alot of people wouldn't mind forking out the money (within reason) to buy a product locally.

If you're cheapo down the to core then I guess, no matter how sweet the deal you'd still be price conscious and will still complain.

But I digress..

However what CEOs of audio companies with share holders to answer to with regards to using developing country as their base of operation is arbitrary to how retailers in MY are pricing their products.

My simple advice, if you find the prices ludicrous then don't buy it and don't patronize their shop.
Thats the beauty of capitalism - market forces and consumer sentiments will determine if you can go into business for a long time.

https://i.servimg.com/u/f60/14/30/45/87/p1010113.jpg

Azri,
Is your QED, CARDAS etc... in the pictures???

wuhuuu thats awesome!! perhaps celah-celah tu they spun in nordost to maintain its flatline!!