Advice needed - which is a warm sounding amp?

hi guys,

generally what brands of amp are warm sounding? asking this coz I will then hunt down the list of brands for audition...n subsequently consideration

planning to get MS floorstanders soon. I worry that my wimpy Onkyo amp (70Wx6ohms) cant drive them or will b on the bright side (usual for jpnese amps right?)

i like to watch action movies (lots of explosion n bullets flying) but I also like jazz (Norah Jones, Diana krall, etc)

generally, valve amps are warm sounding.

What is your budget ? Which (AV or music) are you willing to sacrifice for the sake of better performance of the other. I am afraid if you go for valve amp, unless you spend mega-thousand ringgit, you will probably get a very lembek sound from movie and you won't enjoy all those explosions and bullets flying. This is why I separate my AV and Hifi. Those systems which I have experienced which does well in both, they are all mega-ringgit set-ups. Unfortunately.

Agreed.. kinda hard to get an all rounder system that can really play all kind of music... well at least your kind of music preferences.
I have separates too between AV, digital base and analogue base..

Yeah ... warm sounding, need to really go Valve/Tubes.

Problem is, a decent Valve amp costs much more than a solid-state one these days. Comparing new for new.

maybe u can buy a good s/hand valve like an Audio-Research or Conrad Johnson or Jadis.

Otherwise, warm sounding solid states ... ouch ... can't think of any particular one at the moment. Maybe a Musical Fidelity, but this would be more "sweet" than "warm" sounding.

Or if budget is an issue, can try some of those Made in the Middle-Kingdom brand tube amps. No harm trying, prejudices aside.

For 'warm' solid states, Sansui AU-9500 did crossed my mind recalingy from the Sansui discussion thread... don't think they are easily get and even if that is possible, at what price?

D class or rather T class by Tripath is the closest to sounding like a valve/tube. This is based on my own TA-2024 DIY amp experience.. but that's taking a DIY path.. There are however, assembled D class/T class offered/available.. just google.

Generally I'd say 'old school' amps will sound 'laid back' and/or warm as compared to new ones.. probably due to design and use of modern electronics...

Having heard the real tube amps on several occasions, 'nothing' beats the real thing for sure!

Audition if possible, preferably with your own hardware or similar.. only you (your ears) and wallet thickness will decide the final choice...

Valve amps are they high maintainance i.e often replace the valves and due to often low power rating , can they drive speakers like proac etc?

True high-end solid state amplifiers have long time ago moved to being neutral sounding as that is widely accepted to give the most accurate sound. In fact, many true high-end valve amps have gone the same route too. So if you want 'warm' valve amp, you might be surprised that your choices can be quite limited as well.

One thing about valve/tube amps is that they are higher maintenance than soldi-state. The tubes needs to be replaced and if you are a hardcore nut and are using aftermarket tubes, they can be expensive. For e.g. the valves on my ARC CL60 will cost me a bomb if I am ever to go hunting for aftermarket tubes. Factors like the desire to have 'matched' sets (there are 4 tubes per channel in the CL60) just increases the cost.

mofaz,
Other than high initial cost, my initial impression of high maintenance was one of the reasons why I was 'avoiding' valve amps although I love the sound.. I think the tubes/valves should last 5 or more years.. depends on how much you're clocking the hours for sure.. maybe other forummers have better experience in this.
High efficiency speakers should be partnered with low powered ones.

I am just about to embark in this tube/valve amplification but taking the DIY approach.. planning to build a tube/valve preamp soon..

vintage Quad is warm. is wanna extremely mellow,sweet sound..go for vintage Leak, TL-12 for example..

How about Unison Audio anyone using them and comments?

mofaz wrote:How about Unison Audio anyone using them and comments?

You mean Unison Research?

For Vintage Quad amp, may I also suggest both the Valve amp (Quad II) as well as the solid state ones (eg. Quad 33 Pre with 303 poweramp, or Quad 44 pre with 405 poweramp or Quad 34 with 606 poweramp). For having all rounder, as said above, a bit hard, but I find the combo of Quad 34+606 + Harbeth Compact 7-ES3 a great set that serves movies & for album like Diana Krall/Norah Jones it is also very good....

wabun wrote:vintage Quad is warm. is wanna extremely mellow,sweet sound..go for vintage Leak, TL-12 for example..

Or a pair of MCINTOSH MC30

toda6866 wrote:hi guys,

generally what brands of amp are warm sounding? asking this coz I will then hunt down the list of brands for audition...n subsequently consideration

i like to watch action movies (lots of explosion n bullets flying) but I also like jazz (Norah Jones, Diana krall, etc)

Many associate 'warm sounding' with tube but then again you mention about action movies (I presumed d AV source/gear would be hooked up to your amp). So suggest you audit the amps with your AV interest. Otherwise your sharp 'ziingg' of a flying bullet and room shaking explosion ended up sounding like fuzzy wuzzy thud and fart (sorry sifu Wong, hope 'fart' is not an expletive or inflammatory word) My 2 sens worth.

Cheers,

zb

What about hybrid amps? I am using a Synthesis Magnum 100 hybrid and I find the sound quite 'warm' compared to my previous Audiolab 8000A. My first post, just thought I'd share my experience.

"warm" is very subjective words here. some might feel warm is coloration or harmonics distortion, honestly if u wan warm, you will lost some detail n attack, personally I would chase for "musicality" instead of "warm"..Play the track, tap ur toes, sing with the singer..enjoy ! a musical amp is better oh..

I feel valves/tubes can never be attributed to the word ' warm ' only, I mean I think the better word for the sonics reproduced from valve gears are organic and fluidity, never in anyway ' hard ' or mechanical sounding. Yea, I gotta conclude with wabun here that in an overly warm system or warm system you could lose all the details and even dynamics, everything becomes smooth thus utterly boring. Something you could get bored listening to when every disc you spin sounds ' similar, I mean one could call that ' warm ' again..

A proper built valve system can have all the attributes of being transparent, clear and dynamic.

Warm is just a very very subjective word if you asked me...

Hybrid amps like the Synthesis Magnum 100 ( I used to own one) has a pair of 6922 valves in the pre stage ( but retains the mosfet solid stage output) to inject the tube ' organic ' flavour into the music, similar to the Unison Research Unico series of hybrids. The difference is rather apparent when compared to any pure solid state integrateds...

Once again the word ' warm ' is widely used once again..

Just my two cents worth here..

Hi brother wabun,

I'll be attending a friend's wedding in Ipoh this Friday. Driving down in the morning and I got a couple of hours to kill before the dinner. Would you mind recommending some hifi shops that I can visit while in Ipoh?

Thank you and regards
Faizal

Hi brother wabun,

I'll be attending a friend's wedding in Ipoh this Friday. Driving down in the morning and I got a couple of hours to kill before the dinner. Would you mind recommending some hifi shops that I can visit while in Ipoh?

Thank you and regards
Faizal

Hi Faizal.. just give me a call 016 5581515 ... bring ur favourite records with you..

Thanks bro! My number is 016-452 3193. I'll give you a call this Friday when I'm in Ipoh.

1st thank you for all your replies

just one day and i get so much informative replies from sifus here, i feel like i have really came to the right place!

ok, i forgot to mention that although i've been into HiFi the last 10 yrs, i learn nothing much because i dont have real life frens that r into HiFi ...so newbie here

that being said, i might be wrong when i ask to recommend 'warm' sounding amp, because i thought that when i hate brightness (metallic high frequencies) in my sound/music/movie, then I should b looking for 'warm' sounding equipment.

i like clarity n details, hope not to lose as much details as possible but i dont have a think wallet too.... I would say anything below rm1.5k is my limit, don't mind 2nd hand as long as not too old. That's also the reason why im not separating AV n music....n i think tubes r way out of my league

sorry if my question is vague, pls b kind enough to advise me what else i should consider, thanks a bunch!

ok u can get a nad c326 amp it sound ok .....

NAD should definitely be ok!

Nad is good, also consider invest in a tube buffer like Yaqin, magic you will find!

for 2nd hand can try arcam delta 290 (<rm2000). other alternative is using tube preamp and solid state power amp then u can get power and some tube feeling.

If your budget can be stretch a bit shall go for quad 606.

I would second the suggestion of a tube pre matched to solid-state power. But this will be tough for a budget of below RM1.5k. Maybe something like Audiolab 8000A which can be turned into a power amp later to mate to a tube pre when got more budget. Alternately, a power-amp with volume control which can then be mated to a tube pre again later when budget is more. The latter (power amp with volume control) is harder to come by. My Luxman stereo power amp is one, with dual volume control pots (actually thinking about putting that up at the FS forum soon). The disadvantage of this approach is that it can only play 1 source at one time.

hmmm.... interesting input thks alot guys!

buy solid state amp 1st, then add tube as preamp....sounds like an idea

btw, how do i know which integrated amp can be used as power amp later?

where can I audition NAD? hmmm need to go places around PJ that i can audition budget amps besides marantz, coz i edi crossed out marantz...

no offense to marantz users!

NAD is done by A&L Audio Station. You'll find an outlet at Amcorp Mall.

toda,
Have you bought the speakers yet?
Any particular reasons why you're getting the MS? After auditioning it, I hope?

You either ask the dealer or check with the manufacturer manual to confirm. If you can take a look at the back of the int amp, you will also always see a pair of RCA connectors labelled 'pre-out' and 'power-in'. That indicates it can function as both pre-amp and power-amp.

An integrated amp is really just pre and power amp modules put together into a single unit/casing. So there is an internal connection between the pre and power sections. Integrated amps with pre/power capability simply allows you to bypass either pre section or power section and provides RCA or other kind of connectors to accept pre-out signal or feed power-in signal directly.

Put another way, if you start going into higher end in the future, from integrated, the next step is usually to split pre and power sections into separate units (hence pre-amp and power-amp). Then the next step is to split power-amp into separate left and right units, hence mono-blocks. After that is to split the power-supplies out of the pre and power amps, e.g. Krell KAS comes in 4 separate units, left monoblock without power supply, left power supply, right monoblock without power supply, then right power supply. Go higher and the preamp also split power supply out. Finally for those who plays analogue LP, the next step is to split the phono section out into separate phono-preamp and of course we can also split that phono-preamp into left and right channel with separate dedicated left and right power supply as well.

This is how it is in some of my friend's system. One guy for e.g. has a total of 10 units/casings for this amplification (preamp was a single box for left and right but separate power supply).

just want to share what changes in my amplification:

-started with audiolab 8000A
-later tube buffer + 8000A
-later tube pre + 8000A
-later tube pre + 8000A(isolate preamp side, use only power amp side)
-later tube pre + QUAD 606
-later tube intergrated amp
-planing tube pre + tube power

I really like the tube sound, as for now, cant go back to SS.

Hi @khwong7744,

Can it be safely said that you would not happen to have any of the following repertoire in your music collection:
Rage Against the Machine
Nirvana
Guns n' Roses
Marilyn Manson
Rammstein
Gorillaz
Slipknot
KMFDM


But the following would be likely to be found in your collection:
Diana Krall
Mary Black
Rickie Lee Jones
Sara K
Holly Cole Trio
Rebbecca Pidgeon
Tsai Chin
Harry Connick Jr.

For myself, even after getting the ARC SP9-2/CL-60 pair, granted they are not really high-end tube amps, but they are not that bad. But I still find tubes/valves and solid-states to each have their own strengths. This is of course at my humble level lar.

The best solid-states that I have heard however, can deliver almost all the strengths of the best tubes/valves (even when matched against masterpieces like Audio Note Ongaku or Gaku-On) as good sound as them but also deliver more, like control, bass slam, etc, that I have not yet heard tube/valve amps deliver. So a lot depends on the music one hears. Unfortunately if one is a classical music fan, solid-states are almost certainly the way to go for the super high-end. I have not yet met a super high-end owner who went all tubes but I have friends with Soulutions and Magicos (more than 1 in fact) or KAS or MRA or FM Acoustics, etc. I have asked them before and they told me they have not yet found a valve/tube amp that can meet their requirements. And they haven't found a super high sensitive speaker that meets their requirement either (and most of them have systems using tube or even SET amps. One uses SET amp with Day Sequerra tuner for 3rd system !).

The man has spoken.

In the ultimate "cost-no-object" realm, one knows which will ultimately prevail.

I think a real audiophile will need more than 1 system to play different music at different times or even at different rooms to satisfy. That is all about playing Hi-Fi for me at lease, no need to have a "best of both world" system. Sweet vocal tube sound at night and dynamic toe tapping sound in the day. This is what i call the Best Of Both World.

I am with you tannoy..
One system to play ALL kind of music?
Hardly.. not at any price..

jazzy939 wrote:I am with you tannoy..
One system to play ALL kind of music?
Hardly.. not at any price..

At the truly stratospheric levels, there is.

Just as Sauron at Mount Doom forged the one ring to rule them all, such systems do exist.

Oh really? A matter of one's opinion and one's deteriorating ear perception..
May be so..!

Hi mugenfoo,

I have headphone for rock songs.

When I want to relax, I listen to tube system.
When I want to get high, I choose headphone.

mugenfoo wrote:

At the truly stratospheric levels, there is.

Just as Sauron at Mount Doom forged the one ring to rule them all, such systems do exist.

Those systems are way beyond my reach at the moment.
Should work harder in the office from today onwards..

by the time we reach it (IF), we're already tone deaf..

car o scope wrote:

Those systems are way beyond my reach at the moment.
Should work harder in the office from today onwards..

car o scope wrote:

mugenfoo wrote:

At the truly stratospheric levels, there is.

Just as Sauron at Mount Doom forged the one ring to rule them all, such systems do exist.

Those systems are way beyond my reach at the moment.
Should work harder in the office from today onwards..

So why are you still posting on the forum at 08:20am?

jazzy939 wrote:toda,
Have you bought the speakers yet?
Any particular reasons why you're getting the MS? After auditioning it, I hope?

no, i havn't bought yet, no free time to audition n make more comparisons yet

its hard to part with my money so i gotta be pretty sure im making the best choice for myself....

so far i've audition MS n find it suits my taste, both sound and looks.

WongKN wrote:You either ask the dealer or check with the manufacturer manual to confirm. If you can take a look at the back of the int amp, you will also always see a pair of RCA connectors labelled 'pre-out' and 'power-in'. That indicates it can function as both pre-amp and power-amp.

An integrated amp is really just pre and power amp modules put together into a single unit/casing. So there is an internal connection between the pre and power sections. Integrated amps with pre/power capability simply allows you to bypass either pre section or power section and provides RCA or other kind of connectors to accept pre-out signal or feed power-in signal directly.

Put another way, if you start going into higher end in the future, from integrated, the next step is usually to split pre and power sections into separate units (hence pre-amp and power-amp). Then the next step is to split power-amp into separate left and right units, hence mono-blocks. After that is to split the power-supplies out of the pre and power amps, e.g. Krell KAS comes in 4 separate units, left monoblock without power supply, left power supply, right monoblock without power supply, then right power supply. Go higher and the preamp also split power supply out. Finally for those who plays analogue LP, the next step is to split the phono section out into separate phono-preamp and of course we can also split that phono-preamp into left and right channel with separate dedicated left and right power supply as well.

This is how it is in some of my friend's system. One guy for e.g. has a total of 10 units/casings for this amplification (preamp was a single box for left and right but separate power supply).

thks for the info, i'll look for that

however i don't think my wallet will ever allow me to reach THAT high end, never even dare to dream.... those separate systems with big huge monoblocks i see in AV shows - lots of zeroes behind it... could easily cost more than my net worth...

My advice is to enjoy what we can afford, hi-fi is no destination but a journey for you play and see/listen. No matter how much you spend you still find that something missing in your set-up.
Of course we need to get the best possible equipment/deal within the same budget.
Take your time and PLAY.

true true!

definitely taking my time slowly