Hi-Fi Racks - How Much Influence on Sound Quality?

Hi all,



I am in the middle of a small project to re-design my hifi rack. Previously, I have purchased different types and brand from SoundStyle, ATS, no brand rack, metal, glass and wood.



Truth be told, I can never hear the difference in SQ, switching from one type to another. So, I usually just go with looks (especially now that my wife also have a say on furniture type hehehe).



So for my next design, I would like to seek opinion from fellow forummers. Bare in mind, I am not changing my rack becuase of trying to improve SQ but more to provide better access to the rear parts of the hifi components to change IC/speaker cable, lower the height of my hifi stack now and to have better cable management.



1. Wood VS Metal - Does it really impact the SQ?

2. For the tier base - wood, glass or acrylic - how does it impact SQ?

3. Separate tier for each component or it does not matter if I put 2 or more components on one tier?

4. How about using one of those wonderboards and all the kit will be at relatively floor level?



Appreciate your comment. Trying to get this done before Hari Raya.

If you already said that you can't hear the difference between racks, so why bother on the sound quality aspect ?Just go with the looks, shelving space and practicality aspect then.

Just one more thing to consider is to make sure that the racks are sturdy and strong. So your precious equipment wont come tumbling down like Humpty-Dumpty, just in case.


But if you want to explore into the unknown and re-challenge your notion whether the rack makes any difference to the sound, you can visit some hifi shops (perhaps one or two shops in particular) and have a listen. The shop guy would only be more than happy to oblige. But you must be prepared mentally & financially. A specialised hifi rack can set you back a few thousand bucks easily. On the other hand, those ATS racks are not cheap either.

If you want to cheap-out with no regards for sound quality whatsoever (because you still think you can't hear any difference), IKEA is the way to go.

Happy rack shopping.

MF, thanks. Maybe my post was not clear. What I am trying to ask (from those list of questions) is that is there a way to really make me hear the difference in SQ from the various type of racks?



Yes. I have been buying from ATS - racks, speaker stands and even DVD/BD storage cabinet. They are very sturdy and does cost a few thousands.



Which hifi shop actually selling a specialised hifi racks? The other reason I always go to ATS is because I do not know other hifi rack shops.

Instead of a new rack, why don't you experiment with a set of Finite Elemente Ceraballs for around rm600 a set. You can try it under different components to see if you like the difference, if any. It's difficult to audition racks but you can easily swap the Ceraballs in and out for quick A/B tests.

As for racks, I've seen FE Spider clones by E&T / Cattylink (from HK) at very good prices in the forums. They also have what look like clones of Usher racks, the originals of which are also quite affordable (from CMY), not far from what you'd pay for a similar ATS rack.

j22,



Thanks for the suggestion. I need to sort out the rack first before testing the Ceraballs. I read reviews and it seems to be a worthwhile purchase.



Question - where to buy?



I am actually currrently using the ones from CMY but I feel its too high, plus with the so called cable 'holes' in the rear, it makes it difficult to bend around the thick power cables I have.

Hi elhefe,



The system must have resolution that is high enough to bring out the difference it is having, be it on racks, cones or your cat warms up sleeping on top of your amp.



MF is quick in pointing out your SQ a non-issue... which you are very much concerned with. And we all do otherwise we would not be here.



Wood vs. metal as support to racks is significant, I guess you know what suits me. My reason is the support must be rigid but relatively light and "open". It needs to be compactible with the platform and how it sits with regards to rack supports; the loading of your equipment determine type of platform material. However, you ought to also consider the point where the stress is of most intense; you ought to avoid effects of a collapsed water hose syndrome. This is a whole lot of thesis large enough for a Ph. D here.



Since you are trying to workout a rack system that has high WAF, why not device a peforated screen base on design that conforms to the interior of your house and commissioned a cnc cuting services? Attached the screen to rear of your rack can form a feature wall and it can double up as cable management "wall" with stays to keep the cable at its best state and impose least stress onto your equipment.



Most wifes hates seeing cables, but if she is aware of how much it is affecting the sound, she will be more tolerable. Otherwise, buy her gold chain each time you buy a cable?



Jo Ki

elhefe wrote:


1. Wood VS Metal - Does it really impact the SQ?

2. For the tier base - wood, glass or acrylic - how does it impact SQ?

3. Separate tier for each component or it does not matter if I put 2 or more components on one tier?

4. How about using one of those wonderboards and all the kit will be at relatively floor level?

1. If someone said yes, you will still be not convinced since you have not heard a difference with all your previous racks. I guess you need to hear it yourself to be convinced.

2. Can read up on vibration/resonance control articles.

3. Putting 2 or more components on one tier means stacking components on top of each other, which is not recommended.

4. Depends on the quality of the wonderboards. Nowadays quite a few "wonder" boards in the market that claim to improve sound.

I think most here have given good advice.

If not going to change the rack and just want to concentrate on cable management, I think that is relatively easy to overcome. If you want to be convinced whether there is a difference in sound quality between different racks, you need to experience it yourself(rather than reading about other people's experiences) to come to a conclusion or informed judgment. Similarly like you I have tried quite a few cheap racks including those from ATS and never heard a difference. 2 years ago I brought myself to commit to a good rack, a pretty costly one for that matter(at least for my standards) and finally perceived a difference. It depends on the individual whether the difference can be said as huge or subtle, but to me the improvement is an important one that elevated my system to a higher level. Overall more finesse and focus to the music, more articulate bass and less smearing to the notes are among the notable improvements.

Of course, specialised racks can be costly. If one is not prepared to fork out the money to obtain an appreciable(or zero) difference in sound, one can be contented with the current system and consider the current rack as good enough for the duty.

The best is to listen to the rack in the context of our own systems to determine whether it will make a difference. Since most(or all) dealers do not offer home demo of their racks, I presume, we only can listen at the dealers as suggested by MF.

ryder wrote:

elhefe wrote:


3. Separate tier for each component or it does not matter if I put 2 or more components on one tier?

3. Putting 2 or more components on one tier means stacking components on top of each other, which is not recommended.

Ryder, thanks for the feedback. For question 3, I was referring to putting the kit side by side as most of my components are half sized/shoe box size.



Similar how to I put up my AV stuff like below. What do you think?

elhefe wrote:Hi all,



I am in the middle of a small project to re-design my hifi rack. Previously, I have purchased different types and brand from SoundStyle, ATS, no brand rack, metal, glass and wood.



Truth be told, I can never hear the difference in SQ, switching from one type to another. So, I usually just go with looks (especially now that my wife also have a say on furniture type hehehe).



So for my next design, I would like to seek opinion from fellow forummers. Bare in mind, I am not changing my rack becuase of trying to improve SQ but more to provide better access to the rear parts of the hifi components to change IC/speaker cable, lower the height of my hifi stack now and to have better cable management.



1. Wood VS Metal - Does it really impact the SQ?

2. For the tier base - wood, glass or acrylic - how does it impact SQ?

3. Separate tier for each component or it does not matter if I put 2 or more components on one tier?

4. How about using one of those wonderboards and all the kit will be at relatively floor level?



Appreciate your comment. Trying to get this done before Hari Raya.

hi,,,brother...u can find kilang perabot dsign the rack/tv bench(better)
cos i also own dsign my tv bench (Solid)(the size is Custom)match yr room/system

Jo Ki,



Thanks for the feedback. At one stage, I was thinking of a full professional service to have the rack custom built into the wall with proper cable management. But practicality came back to me. I will only have this dedicated music room for another 3 to 4 years before letting it go to my growing kids. Unless I move to a bigger house with more rooms. So, I put away the idea of a built in rack.



The perforated screen idea is interesting. And having a good cable management is essential to my wife hehehehe. Lately, bribery does not work anymore in my household hehehe. Wife sort of immune.

jokiarch wrote:Hi elhefe,



The system must have resolution that is high enough to bring out the difference it is having, be it on racks, cones or your cat warms up sleeping on top of your amp.



MF is quick in pointing out your SQ a non-issue... which you are very much concerned with. And we all do otherwise we would not be here.



Wood vs. metal as support to racks is significant, I guess you know what suits me. My reason is the support must be rigid but relatively light and "open". It needs to be compactible with the platform and how it sits with regards to rack supports; the loading of your equipment determine type of platform material. However, you ought to also consider the point where the stress is of most intense; you ought to avoid effects of a collapsed water hose syndrome. This is a whole lot of thesis large enough for a Ph. D here.



Since you are trying to workout a rack system that has high WAF, why not device a peforated screen base on design that conforms to the interior of your house and commissioned a cnc cuting services? Attached the screen to rear of your rack can form a feature wall and it can double up as cable management "wall" with stays to keep the cable at its best state and impose least stress onto your equipment.



Most wifes hates seeing cables, but if she is aware of how much it is affecting the sound, she will be more tolerable. Otherwise, buy her gold chain each time you buy a cable?



Jo Ki

my view is that isolating devices (diy or from hi-fi companies) placed beneath components are more important than a dedicated hi-fi rack.



u can use a good tv rack from a good kedai perabot made of wood/acrylic or whatever and ask the furniture fella to drill some holes at the back for your cables.

then u can place yr cd player, turntable, amp, dac, dvd player, av receiver, astro decoder, etc, on the various shelves of the tv rack, but underneath the more important components like the cd player, turntable, dac, etc, you can place either diy isolation stuff (foam, rubber, cork, silicon pads, etc) or the professional stuff like the Finite Elemente Ceraballs, vibrapods or magnetic devices.

My own view is that a TT is best seperated to be on its own, away from other equipment. But then again, I suppose one should experiment underneath the TT with various platforms or support thingys thereon.

I wonder whats the next best to Mana Acoustics racks (since they're no more in production). Would love to own a set in the near future. I heard its an excellent mate to a LP12. I currently use a custom fabricated stand cloned on the Sound Organisation rack that was supposidly suited for Lp12. Its not having any fancy frills, internal weighting or made with special alloys or irons, quite straightforward, plain n simple actually. The platform is a half inch MDF supported by spikes. On a couple of occasions, placing my CDP on it (in place of the TT) sounded so good to my ears.

Long ago in naim forum there is a creative chap, who invented a cheap DIY method and many believed to be working effectively. He found out that using 3 layers thick 20mm MDV platform to be supported by ball bearings -< nuts configuration placing under each corner. Some have used the mixed of MDV & Glasses.

Later Naim Audio came out their own FRAIM using similar bearing -< nut to isolate their FRAIM glass platform.

MDF (not MDV) typo error.

sflam wrote:my view is that isolating devices (diy or from hi-fi companies) placed beneath components are more important than a dedicated hi-fi rack.

You might change your mind after dabbling with say a Finite-Elemente Emperor rack with Active resonance control system or even a SolidTech Rack-of-Silence sytem. If one has had sufficient exposure to such purpose-built racks, then one might not be so quick to generalise on the above just yet... Just some food for thought here.

sflam wrote:
u can use a good tv rack from a good kedai perabot made of wood/acrylic or whatever and ask the furniture fella to drill some holes at the back for your cables.

then u can place yr cd player, turntable, amp, dac, dvd player, av receiver, astro decoder, etc, on the various shelves of the tv rack, but underneath the more important components like the cd player, turntable, dac, etc, you can place either diy isolation stuff (foam, rubber, cork, silicon pads, etc) or the professional stuff like the Finite Elemente Ceraballs, vibrapods or magnetic devices.

Again, a "kedai perabot" variety type of rack definitely doesn't quite qualify as a dedicated or purpose-built equipment rack.

There is a hefty amount of material sciences and architectural engineering that goes into building purpose-built equipment racks.



On a side note here, there is a particular model of Racking system from Finite-Elemente that has been copied & cloned by numerous China knockoff factories. This would be the FE Spider System.

As they say, "Imitation is the sincerest (form) of flattery".

look at those frames in Naim Forum download pics n find a good carpenter use good quality class A local Hardwood n finish in natural dont think it'll cost a bomb ..

Do be wary of the kedai perabot TV racks and even many of the Ikea racks. The way they mount the boards to the support is by drilling a hole in the edges of the board and then using a screw. The kind of board they use is not particularly dense/solid and drilling a hole and mounting with the screw is not a particularly solid and secure mounting.

If budget permits, a purpose design rack for hifi is preferable. Doesn't have to be big brands like Finite Elemente though ideally them of course. The local racks available in Amcorp mall, or even the simple metal racks available at Tong Lee are good starting points. The better racks are quite acceptable as hall furnitues actually. For e.g. the basic entry level Finite Elemente racks, around 2.5k I think for 3 levels (or is it 4 levels, forgot) is finished like a good quality hall furniture, matches them well, and provides a good starting point for an equipment rack. Until the system outgrows it of course.

Similarly, locally fabricated metal racks with glass or MDF boards are very effective as well, though they are more industrial looking and not exactly matching with hall furnitures. Many home minister's main requirement is only to be able to sweep and mop the floor.

Of course lah, IKEA racks or whatver are built to some price point, a practical approach and lastly mostly knockdown and never too complicated (easy actually) to assemble. I don't think any of it were intended for audiophile use. It isn't their game nor for any niche market.

Its seen as if its suitable for your use?, affordable, it'll serve most general purposes.

Anyway, I think the Naim Fraim racking system will cost a big bomb landed here, costing as much as another new mid to high end amplifier.

Yes, the Fraim is highly expensive, if not mistaken one tier is retailing at RM2k plus. You must build from the base which has footers and unfortunately it is the more expensive one. The Fraim cannot be judged by one tier configuration only, it is the sum of all parts that make it special.

Even there are many naim owners in UK that can't afford the Fraim. They either DIY or choose alternative brand.

Any idea where we can get Isoblue Hifi rack in M'sia?


Thanks.

Something very affordable to start with:

https://www.hifi4sale.net/t18984-et-equipment-rack-new

I used to have one similar to this, except that mine had 4 tiers. Very solid, very rigid.

Mikapoh wrote:Yes, the Fraim is highly expensive, if not mistaken one tier is retailing at RM2k plus. You must build from the base which has footers and unfortunately it is the more expensive one. The Fraim cannot be judged by one tier configuration only, it is the sum of all parts that make it special.

Even there are many naim owners in UK that can't afford the Fraim. They either DIY or choose alternative brand.

Any idea where we can get Isoblue Hifi rack in M'sia?


Thanks.

Good observation on the complete picture that a Rack forms part of the cohesive audio eco-system. It is the sum of its parts that truly makes the case for a good racking system.

Another point to note is that if one is working on a tight budget, the first priority should not be sound quality, but for the sturdiness and safety aspects of the rack itself first. Hifi gear can be heavy, and its easy to forget about the basic fundamental aspects of a rack and get lost in the pursuit of absolute sound quality.

If one had to choose between a supposedly superbly sounding rack but bordering at the edge of overloading and collapse vs. a generic IKEA rack but at least used well within its safe loading specs, then the IKEA rack should be the natural choice first.

Same goes for those accessory tweaks. Some might be tempted to put a big 30kg amp on 3 legged spikes in hopes of improving the sound, but end up making the bulky poweramp into a potential house hazard especially if its accidentally bumped, it would crash with a massive thud.

Component racks should be chosen based on a common sense priority:
1) Safety
One should never compromise the safety aspects of a racking system.
No one would want their precious equipment come tumbling down like Humpty-Dumpty.

2) Capacity
Decide a good rack based on one's system requirements. How many tiers ? Whats the equipment footprint? etc...

3) Cost
Some common sense here as well. If you're already having top dollar equipment, don't ruin it all and try and cheapout with some dodgy halfhack rack. Likewise, don't go overboard on exotic racks if its going to end up costing 2 or 3 times more than the components its meant to carry.

4) Sonic Quality
This is subjective and is best left to individual tastes and preferences

5) Flexibility
Not a top priority, but still a worthy mention. Should your system evolve or change over time, a flexible rack allows for more accommodation than a fixed rack. A simple case of being able to adjust the shelving heights and/or customise the footprint space is a massive added bonus here.

Just IMO, while the Naim Fraim is certainly a no nonsense rack, it does come off as very pricey, due to the premium in paying for the Naim brand. And i might add that Rack-Design isn't exactly Naim's forte.

At these price points, there would be a choice of specialist racks to choose from already. Since someone already mentioned Ceraballs here, perhaps a good starting point for a proper rack that is affordable yet is purpose built, would be a Tragwerk system from Finite-Elemente.
http://www.finite-elemente.de/en/racks/tragwerk

I helped to design this rack

http://www.sgraudio.com.au/products/racks/sgr_rack.html

WongKN wrote: Many home minister's main requirement is only to be able to sweep and mop the floor.

Good observation! That was the reason the approval for me to purchase a TAOC Rack was approved very quickly.

tycham wrote:

WongKN wrote: Many home minister's main requirement is only to be able to sweep and mop the floor.

Good observation! That was the reason the approval for me to purchase a TAOC Rack was approved very quickly.

Can you advise where did you manage to buy the TAOC rack ?

Are there any shops around locally that sell them? They seem to be very hard to come by in KL...

TAOC racks - available @ Hi-Way Laser

mugenfoo wrote:

tycham wrote:

WongKN wrote: Many home minister's main requirement is only to be able to sweep and mop the floor.

Good observation! That was the reason the approval for me to purchase a TAOC Rack was approved very quickly.

Can you advise where did you manage to buy the TAOC rack ?

Are there any shops around locally that sell them? They seem to be very hard to come by in KL...

I am in Singapore actually. Got it from X Audio, Bukit Timah Plaza.

tq:cheers:

wong kn wrote:
Do be wary of the kedai perabot TV racks and even many of the Ikea racks. The way they mount the boards to the support is by drilling a hole in the edges of the board and then using a screw. The kind of board they use is not particularly dense/solid and drilling a hole and mounting with the screw is not a particularly solid and secure mounting.

IIRC, it was ivor tiefenbrun, the founder of linn, who recommended the ikea lack table as a good platform for the lp12 turntable.

i hv used the linn majik lp12 on an ikea lack table with excellent results.

sflam wrote:IIRC, it was ivor tiefenbrun, the founder of linn, who recommended the ikea lack table as a good platform for the lp12 turntable.
i hv used the linn majik lp12 on an ikea lack table with excellent results.

This I must try out since it can be acquired cheaply, if no good it'll make a cheepo side table.

Hai bro,

If you keen about sound quality for your system & better cable management i suggest u do just what i did to my rack.It a self made rack made from seraya/meranti wood,filtered sea sand & cost effective.Rack base from 6mm plywood.
1. Measure your equip & measure the 6mm plywood base size slightly bigger about 1" square all 4 corners.
2. Make 4 or 5" side board from meranti/seraya wood attach to plywood as base.
3. Fill filtered sea sand inside & you need at least 2mm spare for placing topper 6mm top base for your equip or place a granite plate (cost a bit).
4.Place your equipment on Angle steel bar same measure of your box.
5. Feel the difference the sound soon as your play your favorite music.Image of the box as i mentioned,you can see it when your search for JBL ES80 at sell equipment/accessories part.

This is my opinion only & the rest up to you.

pokcek

Actually, the idea behind high-end rack goes well beyond just being 'solid' and immune to vibration.

Ringing happens when sound waves excite materials at their resonant frequencies - all materials will ring at a certain frequency, this is inevitable. A good rack is not only designed to ring minimally at most frequencies, but their construction and materials used is specially chosen to damp out vibrations in the shortest amount of time.

Hifi components, being made out of metal structures, also ring, and by placing them on a well designed rack (and further improved with the right coupling system), the energy from the component itself can be dissipated to and damped by the larger rack more quickly.

sflam wrote:

wong kn wrote:
Do be wary of the kedai perabot TV racks and even many of the Ikea racks. The way they mount the boards to the support is by drilling a hole in the edges of the board and then using a screw. The kind of board they use is not particularly dense/solid and drilling a hole and mounting with the screw is not a particularly solid and secure mounting.

IIRC, it was ivor tiefenbrun, the founder of linn, who recommended the ikea lack table as a good platform for the lp12 turntable.

i hv used the linn majik lp12 on an ikea lack table with excellent results.

Ikea LACK for a Linn LP12 may seem fine. Perhaps even an Oracle or some Thorens decks could probably get away with it too. But try putting something like a VYGER or a Rega on a LACK table ? Perhaps one could deduce the simple reasons behind it.

Roy Gandy also says that wet-washing LPs is unnecessary. Obviously he had no idea what tropical climate and humidity can do to the vinyl.

So lets apply some common sense here ya, and not take what some hifi founder or designer's comments as the gospel truth.

I have been reading through all the comments given here. Really appreciate the feedback. From what I gather, it all boils down to balancing between physics (vibration etc), aesthatic, equipment requirements and of course, credit card limit.



I have been going around listening different set ups and different racks. What I did was NOT to ask what brand, what specs, price etc of the rack. This is so that I am not blinded by their brand and price. It was a bit difficult to judge because each show room had different gear. Only one shop allowed me to listen to the CDP on the floor and on the rack which of course created a lot of different.



I also played around with some isolation pads, balls etc. And some of them do make a different.



So, I have custom made mine using wood and steel legs with spikes and sliders. PLus also purchased those isolation feet made of solid wood as well.



Should be getting the rack before Hari Raya. Will see how it will fair in my room.



Thanks again to all.

Got my rack last Friday. Set it all up and spent the a few hours on the wee hours of the weekends.



There was definitely a big different between using my previous steel/glass rack (with flat feet) and wood with spiked feet.



The low end of my system has definitely changed somehow. When setting up the system again on the new rack, I did not move the speaker position, hence any changes to sound, I believe was due to the rack.



The overall height of my set up has reduced significantly, giving a more subtle look.



I had to place my PF50 on the top tier beside the TV because it made it easier to plug in all those heavy duty power cables to the unit. Also my Wadia is placed on the top tier as well for ease to put in the iPod.



The 2nd tier is dedicated to all stereo sources and DACs.



The bottom tier is for amplification - mainly the M6i amp, and the new HPA headphone amp. I still have not sold my old BD player and AV receiver, so both of them resides on the bottom tier temporarily until they find a new home.



I think the spiked feet with sliders made the different.



I am a very happy camper now.



And yes, it is an ATS unit but with it was custom made to suit the size that I want.

Congrats . Thats a very nice looking setup. Rack & all.
Nice headphones, ipod docks and stuff.

Now you've heard for yourself how a racking system can change the sound completely. Some things just need to be experienced by yourself instead of having any salesperson or shop guy or forummers givein 1001 opinions and ideas in trying to convince you whether it makes a difference or not.

You're just missing one final piece of the whole total home audio experience symphony... a turntable!

I knew it that one of these days, someone will spot that I do not have a turntable.



I am interested but still concern about the LPs availability for the the type of music I listen to.



Yup. One point to good hifi rack.

mugenfoo wrote:Congrats . Thats a very nice looking setup. Rack & all.
Nice headphones, ipod docks and stuff.

Now you've heard for yourself how a racking system can change the sound completely. Some things just need to be experienced by yourself instead of having any salesperson or shop guy or forummers givein 1001 opinions and ideas in trying to convince you whether it makes a difference or not.

You're just missing one final piece of the whole total home audio experience symphony... a turntable!

U smart, I like

sflam wrote:elhefe,m



u can put the tv on a wall mount and u will hv space for the ....turntable.